OpenEuphoria

1. submitting code

• Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
• 1945 views

Forked from Re: walk_dir and Chinese filenames

I forked to this topic because Jeremy suggested it.

But my comment did have something to do with what Derek said in context of the original thread. He was being supportive of user contributions, and i would be also, but it's misleading to suggest that all working useable desireable code is going to be considered in a positive light. My nick on this forum represents that fact.

Just as you are allowed to make improvements in Euphoria every day, i am not allowed to make improvements, every day. So it's not far from my mind that the off-topic harrassment which was against me on euphorum stopped only when i took removed all code for task messaging.

Or how there was a tide against me when i asked for string handling functions a decade ago, wrote strtok.e, and then those functions were added to Eu v4, but i was useless in that addition. Functions i didn't release with strtok v3 were not in Eu v4, functions i use every day, which i believe would be a valueable contribution. In deep depression i simply gave Derek permission to scrape whatever he wanted from the lib. I knew better than to do any more to be helpful.

I believe the getxml() in strtok lib would detect some misuse of the creole tags in this forum, from missing tags to overlapping tags fields, but that suggestion was overlooked as well.

CK's posted pic which included a view of the header on euphorum being overlapped by tabs used to select other pages was fixable by css code i submitted, and i think CK also submitted code, and yet the problem persists. The submitted code isn't in use.

I use the task msg handler every day, and make incremental improvements, expanding it's scope to handling msg passing across a lan or the internet, but i actually now fear the idea of submitting this code, because the code isn't the object of the derision, i am. Several times in this forum and on the devlist, verbal fights took away time better spent on coding, fights which as often as not had nothing to do with the submitted code.

There's been several times i had http.e open in an editor over the years for getting cookies to work, or implementing the put protocol, or forking it to an ftp protocol, but [choose your expletive], it's not merely a thankless effort, it's an uphill battle just to get thru the side circus here!

I realise whatever is submitted is subject to editing, changing, improvements, renaming, etc etc. Code i give to Ry, or he gives to me, or code Unkmar suggests, or vice versa, is understood to be subject to the best use of the application by the recipient. But we don't fight over stuff like is often done here or on the devlist. Some people know of a need for a standard in a topic that does not yet exist in Euphoria, but who wants to bring up that topic in this hostile atmosphere?

What Derek had said as a blanket statement was over-simplified and could have had many caveats added. I added comments where he made the statement. While i respect Derek, i do not respect the process as applied here or some of the participants. More than one person has stated we traded the dictatorship of RobC for an equally frustrating dictatorship. There is just no end of irrelavant "reasons" for some code/functions being refused. Granted, there are some relavant reasons.

I gave pro and con for submitting code in the parent thread, but if Bruce would rather just get on with his job, do not submit code here. Share it with anyone who asks for it, but don't do it in euphorum, the devlist, or the ticket page on this site or sourceforge. There's just too much overhead.

If Euphoria wasn't such a great language, i'd leave in a heartbeat. Posts like Fendaril or others saying i was the one attempting to dos this site off the net are representative of posts i cannot defend myself against, and no one can prove they were not the source of that dos attempt. Yea, i know that wasn't your ip, but now proove you didn't use a worm/trojan to take over the offender's computer at that ip and dos the site with it.

useless

3. Re: submitting code

• Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1887 views

I am not going to spend any real amount of time on this post or in this thread, it's a bit useless, but I did want to clarify a few things.

You were on the dev team and did commit code directly just as I do but you flew off the handle when your code met legitimate criticisms, as all of our code does. We've went over this before.

1. How many people's code was not added to Euphoria a decade ago? I think just about no ones code was added, right?
2. Your strtok.e code was not added to Euphoria. I believe you are speaking about split? This is entirely new code that does many different things. It accomplishes one of the tasks in strtok but many others as well. In no part was it derived or even thought of because of strtok. split is a very common method in almost any language. Because it wasn't in Euphoria, was in strtok and is now in Euphoria does not mean anything.

Overlooked?!? I looked at strtok very early on in 4.0 development. getxml does what it says it does but it is by no means a complete XML parser. I did not want to introduce just partial XML handling. I felt it necessary to hold out for full XML processing, including the parsing, creating and querying of via X-Path. Until we get that, I don't think XML handling should be part of core.

and it did mess up other areas (would wrap down onto the white sometimes). Again, we need a total solution. The end result is that we are going to remove the entire message subject or ticket title from the "Logo" area as it's not necessary due to it being displayed right below the logo area and in the title bar. This just has not been done yet and that's my code that I developed and it isn't in euweb yet either!

... removed the rest of the post as it had nothing I wished to comment on as it's all been discussed thousands of times before ...

Jeremy

5. Re: submitting code

• Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
• 1791 views

There's many functions in strtok.e, i was not speaking of only split.

It wasn't meant to be "complete" for everyone, i didn't even design it for Euphoria or the internet, i wrote it in the early 1990's for my own use. But for use IN THIS FORUM (and i did say IN THIS FORUM, while you are arguing now about INCLUDING IT IN V4 CORE), it would have sufficed to DETECT (not FIX) errors. This change in context is one example i yell out about harrassment. I never suggested getxml be part of the core, yet i must defend myself?

<me> No one suggested to anyone they go back to the drawing board to fix this or that in their submissions, only that they were refused. I was told a 15 inch monitor was just not acceptable and i should shut up and go buy a wider monitor. </me>

7. Re: submitting code

• Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
• 1802 views

So just to use an analogy, if i move next door to you, yell at you every few hours, flatten your car tires every night, have your power shut off constantly, cut your phone lines, slander you to the neighbors, and then you move, it's just pure coincidence that you moved?

I removed the code to see if you'd get off my back, as well as those arguing over the use of "que" vs "queue", and you did stop the argueing!

I still find it incredible that the choice to abbreviate the word was far more important to fight about than the working code.

useless

9. Re: submitting code

• Posted by mattlewis (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1776 views

Really, that's an analogy? There's a guy on slashdot whose username is BadAnalogyGuy. You'd do him proud. But he usually has car analogies.

To the best of my knowledge, I've never even been to your site. I really don't care what you decide to do with your site or your code, but if you're interested in getting it into euphoria, then it will be reviewed. And yes, that includes the choice of names.

The ensuing argument came after you dredged up old business, and really wasn't even about the task messaging code...not even the routine names. I'm sorry for responding to your provocations, and I try to ignore your posts, but there are only so many personal attacks that I can ignore before responding.

Matt

11. Re: submitting code

• Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
• 1764 views

Revision 2666 - (view) (download) (annotate) - [select for diffs]  
Modified Mon Aug 31 13:01:54 2009 UTC (4 weeks, 3 days ago) by jeremy_c  
File length: 25603 byte(s)  
Diff to previous 2631  
* Added ifdef EUC_DLL around task_yield() 
* Formatted a bit (mostly automated, so it's still not 100% right) 

That's all fine and good, it's not MY code, yet Matt did say you fixed MY code, when in fact the problem was due to the task code not allowing the dll to compile properly. I did add task code to http.e, and sped it up considerably, and was adding task msging to it as well, making it even more multi-tasking-friendly. Matts tone was derisive, and implying it was all me that broke it, and there were no other factors, but i don't see it as my fault that a general lib (tasks) was not tested to be useable in a dll before it was added to core.

I am aware no code stays the same for long. AGAIN, i did not consider what you did to be an attack, i considered it code development and evolution. I did not complain about your fixes, they were valid. In fact, i was happy the code was staying in despite me "breaking" it, and a way was being sought to allow task.e to be useable in http.e. Can you please just accept this fact, or must this also be in contention forever?

Bruce, see what you get if you submit code and care enough about Euphoria to try to help develop it?

useless

13. Re: submitting code

• Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1897 views

I never said that so how can you say what I said was misleading?

The nearest I got to that was that I implied that all submitted work would be examined on its merits. If I submitted something that I wanted but everyone (or majority) regarded as junk then it will be rejected.

Now hang on there ... you decided to remove yourself from the development team. No one pushed you out or even told to you to leave. It was your decision so don't start on about not being allowed. You, like everyone else not in that team can still submit ideas and code. YOU ARE ALLOWED.

What you call "harrassment", nearly everyone calls "opposing opinion". Getting opposing opinion is a good thing - it helps one clarify one's own stance on things.

A "tide"!?!?! Really ... a "tide"?? If I recall, there might have been two or three people that had differing ideas about some of that library's functionality.

Now some functionality that is common with your library has been included in Euphoria. These were not lifted from your code and were added because they are common to most language's standard library.

Well you'd be wrong then. That function would not help the creole parsing because creole syntax is vastly different from XML.

Even though it reduced that problem, your CSS file caused other problems to occur.

These "fights" did not begin as such. They began as honest requests for explanation or as opposing opinions, but seemed to escalate rapidly when you started to take them personally, which they never were.

It was not "over-simplified". What caveats are required?

Name one rejection that was done so for irrelevant reasons.

And what should be done instead to get anyone's code into Euphoria?

15. Re: submitting code

• Posted by mattlewis (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1824 views

If I said he fixed YOUR code, I'm sure I meant it as code that you'd submitted. I don't recall saying much of anything about the ifdef, other than to discuss other ways around that particular issue. Most what I said was focused on other code, and on mutitasking concepts in general (especially this), rather than any specific code.

I don't think anyone but you cares whose fault anything was. I'm sure I've created more bugs than you (probably than anyone) in the development of v4. The goal was simply to figure it out and fix it. Again, it's not all about you.

We've accepted it. Have you? Signs point to no. Why else would you continue to bring this up?

Matt

17. Re: submitting code

• Posted by mattlewis (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1783 views

I still wonder about why you think the discussion was about defining the word 'to'. It was clear then and now that you never understood tasks at a low level, which is what the discussion was really about.

Yes, that's how it was started. And you keep repeating the same nonsense, or changing the topic. I don't know much about the CSS discussion. I never got involved too much in that, but I understand it's a great opportunity to play the martyr, so I won't try to stop you.

Matt

19. Re: submitting code

• Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
• 1700 views

That was 2 different topics!

"to" was about the difference between "yielding a task", and "yielding TO a task", and YOU converted that to me not understanding what the task manager does, even after i tell you i wrote a cooperative task manager for the C64 in the mid 1980's, in machine code, poking bytes into memory. I also used Windows 3.1 and 3.11, i still have the install floppies, both were cooperative multitasking.

I know how the task manager works, i know how i write code, i know how i spec the timeframe for each task.

See what i mean, Bruce, about frustration and never-ending explainations of what should be clear to all?

useless

21. Re: submitting code

• Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
• 1720 views

1. $%&#$^&@H$@!$# tun8913 4yri17 3yoircqe

WE HAVE BEEN OVER THIS

YOU are the one being insanely dense. Jeremy MISstated a proposal that said yield TO a parent, i objected to that suggestion. Why the hell can't you follow from one line to the next? I KEEP SAYING i object to the proposal that that happen. Turns out he didn't mean that at all, after 2 days of fighting to get you to understand the difference, and now here we STILL are, with your lil peabrain stuck on me thinking that is the way Eu's taskmanager does it, because i objected to it!

Bruce? See?

useless

23. Re: submitting code

• Posted by mattlewis (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1688 views

I was objecting to the way you were describing tasks. Here's the way I remember it:

Jeremy proposed the ability to call task_yield() from a translated euphoria dll that would call the task scheduler of the main process. He never talked about a 'parent' anything. That was all your language.

You kept talking about parents with respect to tasks, and about yielding to particular tasks, and not in a, "hey, let's change the behavior of task_yield() to do thus and such." If that's what you were really trying to get at, then yeah, I totally missed it, because it really had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

And in that context, you kept using the same language to refer to actual, running code, indicating to me that, while you had managed to improve the code, you didn't understand what was going on under the hood. It was never apparent to me that you understood otherwise, and it was actually an important concept for the topic we were discussing.

Matt

25. Re: submitting code

• Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1701 views

Where, and even if I did, it's because you take such ownership of it and it was broken, but I don't recall saying you broke http.e. Please cite a reference, then I'll believe it.

Jeremy

27. Re: submitting code

• Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
• 1684 views

I don't seeing you suggesting the same to Matt when he is insulting.

useless

29. Re: submitting code

• Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1695 views

NO I DID NOT! YOU ADDED THE TO PART! We've been over this as well!

Jeremy

31. Re: submitting code

• Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1696 views

Which is exactly what it should do. Then you went into the idea of yielding to a parent task. That's what no one could understand. How do you go from the main processes task_yield() to the parent task?

Jeremy

33. Re: submitting code

• Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1660 views

Yes, you added it and I added a wrap of ifdef when the problem was discovered. What I did not say was "Kat broke http.e" which is what you said I said. I never said that, ergo you're wrong and you are misquoting people.

Adding task_yield() to http.e was a great idea and the correct idea. Then when it was found that task_yield() didn't compile into a DLL we had to take the next step. No one was expecting it or planning on it, thus, I'd never say you broke it! None of us would have guess it. That's what beta testing is about. We add something, we test it, it passes. Later in a beta release a situation is found that it doesn't work.

Again, this is part of a normal community development process.

Jeremy

35. Re: submitting code

• Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
• 1677 views

Main process has a task_yield, by which it yields.

Task1 has a task_yield, by which it yields.

Task1 should not be able to call the main process's task_yield, it should be able to call only it's own task_yield. By calling it's own task_yield, it is yielding the cpu TO the task manager to assign to other tasks, such as the main task, since it's the only other task mentioned here.

If task1 calls the main process's task_yield, then task manager is told the main task has yielded.

In this example, the main process is the only executing code other than task1, therefor the main process is task1's parent.

useless

37. Re: submitting code

• Posted by jaygade Oct 01, 2009
• 1670 views

I actually find it interesting since I couldn't find the referenced discussions on the dev list.
Forked into: Euphoria dlls with multitasking

39. Re: submitting code

• Posted by euphoric (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1641 views

1. If Matt does resort to an insult, it would be a last resort, one-time thing.
2. Matt doesn't insult people. In this whole scenario, he's been very reserved. Many of us have been.

You, on the other hand, aren't as polite. You should always try to be.

Or go away.

41. Re: submitting code

• Posted by euphoric (admin) Oct 01, 2009
• 1663 views
• Last edited Oct 02, 2009

And you did go away.

But then you came back.