1. submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1968 views
Forked from Re: walk_dir and Chinese filenames
I forked to this topic because Jeremy suggested it.
Sorry, but back in post #3 of this thread, Derek suggested we could effect changes in Euphoria :
If you care to supply some code that get dir() working we can incorporate it into a future release, otherwise submit a ticket for the enhancement.
Which, as a blanket statement, is not true in my experience.
useless
Yes, and your follow up has nothing to do with walk_dir. Derek's did. You should have forked the message with a subject that says: "Creating a ticket does nothing" to which someone would probably point to the hundreds of closed, fixed, applied tickets.
But my comment did have something to do with what Derek said in context of the original thread. He was being supportive of user contributions, and i would be also, but it's misleading to suggest that all working useable desireable code is going to be considered in a positive light. My nick on this forum represents that fact.
Your reply has nothing to do with walk_dir and is just the same old rant that drives everyone nuts because we've heard the exact same thing forever. It seems that you try to sneak it in any possible way you can conceive.
Jeremy
Just as you are allowed to make improvements in Euphoria every day, i am not allowed to make improvements, every day. So it's not far from my mind that the off-topic harrassment which was against me on euphorum stopped only when i took removed all code for task messaging.
Or how there was a tide against me when i asked for string handling functions a decade ago, wrote strtok.e, and then those functions were added to Eu v4, but i was useless in that addition. Functions i didn't release with strtok v3 were not in Eu v4, functions i use every day, which i believe would be a valueable contribution. In deep depression i simply gave Derek permission to scrape whatever he wanted from the lib. I knew better than to do any more to be helpful.
I believe the getxml() in strtok lib would detect some misuse of the creole tags in this forum, from missing tags to overlapping tags fields, but that suggestion was overlooked as well.
CK's posted pic which included a view of the header on euphorum being overlapped by tabs used to select other pages was fixable by css code i submitted, and i think CK also submitted code, and yet the problem persists. The submitted code isn't in use.
I use the task msg handler every day, and make incremental improvements, expanding it's scope to handling msg passing across a lan or the internet, but i actually now fear the idea of submitting this code, because the code isn't the object of the derision, i am. Several times in this forum and on the devlist, verbal fights took away time better spent on coding, fights which as often as not had nothing to do with the submitted code.
There's been several times i had http.e open in an editor over the years for getting cookies to work, or implementing the put protocol, or forking it to an ftp protocol, but [choose your expletive], it's not merely a thankless effort, it's an uphill battle just to get thru the side circus here!
I realise whatever is submitted is subject to editing, changing, improvements, renaming, etc etc. Code i give to Ry, or he gives to me, or code Unkmar suggests, or vice versa, is understood to be subject to the best use of the application by the recipient. But we don't fight over stuff like is often done here or on the devlist. Some people know of a need for a standard in a topic that does not yet exist in Euphoria, but who wants to bring up that topic in this hostile atmosphere?
What Derek had said as a blanket statement was over-simplified and could have had many caveats added. I added comments where he made the statement. While i respect Derek, i do not respect the process as applied here or some of the participants. More than one person has stated we traded the dictatorship of RobC for an equally frustrating dictatorship. There is just no end of irrelavant "reasons" for some code/functions being refused. Granted, there are some relavant reasons.
I gave pro and con for submitting code in the parent thread, but if Bruce would rather just get on with his job, do not submit code here. Share it with anyone who asks for it, but don't do it in euphorum, the devlist, or the ticket page on this site or sourceforge. There's just too much overhead.
If Euphoria wasn't such a great language, i'd leave in a heartbeat. Posts like Fendaril or others saying i was the one attempting to dos this site off the net are representative of posts i cannot defend myself against, and no one can prove they were not the source of that dos attempt. Yea, i know that wasn't your ip, but now proove you didn't use a worm/trojan to take over the offender's computer at that ip and dos the site with it.
useless
2. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jaygade Oct 01, 2009
- 1836 views
With regards to you you being abused because of your code, I've often seen you complain about it but I've never seen evidence of it. Neither here nor on the dev list.
I'm just sayin'. I've seen you complain about it for years. Maybe it's because I don't hang out on IRC? I guess I just don't get it.
I did think that someone accusing you of DOS-ing the forum was messed up.
3. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1905 views
I am not going to spend any real amount of time on this post or in this thread, it's a bit useless, but I did want to clarify a few things.
Just as you are allowed to make improvements in Euphoria every day, i am not allowed to make improvements, every day.
You were on the dev team and did commit code directly just as I do but you flew off the handle when your code met legitimate criticisms, as all of our code does. We've went over this before.
Or how there was a tide against me when i asked for string handling functions a decade ago, wrote strtok.e, and then those functions were added to Eu v4
- How many people's code was not added to Euphoria a decade ago? I think just about no ones code was added, right?
- Your strtok.e code was not added to Euphoria. I believe you are speaking about split? This is entirely new code that does many different things. It accomplishes one of the tasks in strtok but many others as well. In no part was it derived or even thought of because of strtok. split is a very common method in almost any language. Because it wasn't in Euphoria, was in strtok and is now in Euphoria does not mean anything.
I believe the getxml() in strtok lib would detect some misuse of the creole tags in this forum, from missing tags to overlapping tags fields, but that suggestion was overlooked as well.
Overlooked?!? I looked at strtok very early on in 4.0 development. getxml does what it says it does but it is by no means a complete XML parser. I did not want to introduce just partial XML handling. I felt it necessary to hold out for full XML processing, including the parsing, creating and querying of via X-Path. Until we get that, I don't think XML handling should be part of core.
CK's posted pic which included a view of the header on euphorum being overlapped by tabs used to select other pages was fixable by css code i submitted, and i think CK also submitted code, and yet the problem persists. The submitted code isn't in use.
and it did mess up other areas (would wrap down onto the white sometimes). Again, we need a total solution. The end result is that we are going to remove the entire message subject or ticket title from the "Logo" area as it's not necessary due to it being displayed right below the logo area and in the title bar. This just has not been done yet and that's my code that I developed and it isn't in euweb yet either!
... removed the rest of the post as it had nothing I wished to comment on as it's all been discussed thousands of times before ...
Jeremy
4. Re: submitting code
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1830 views
Just as you are allowed to make improvements in Euphoria every day, i am not allowed to make improvements, every day. So it's not far from my mind that the off-topic harrassment which was against me on euphorum stopped only when i took removed all code for task messaging.
This is only because you refuse to participate. I'm not aware of anyone ever pressuring you to remove any code, and certainly any correlation between anything I wrote and anything you posted or removed from your site was pure coincidence.
I realise whatever is submitted is subject to editing, changing, improvements, renaming, etc etc. Code i give to Ry, or he gives to me, or code Unkmar suggests, or vice versa, is understood to be subject to the best use of the application by the recipient. But we don't fight over stuff like is often done here or on the devlist. Some people know of a need for a standard in a topic that does not yet exist in Euphoria, but who wants to bring up that topic in this hostile atmosphere?
I'm having trouble figuring out what the solution to this might be. Should we not discuss things or review code? Should we just put anything and everything into the code base?
What Derek had said as a blanket statement was over-simplified and could have had many caveats added. I added comments where he made the statement. While i respect Derek, i do not respect the process as applied here or some of the participants. More than one person has stated we traded the dictatorship of RobC for an equally frustrating dictatorship. There is just no end of irrelavant "reasons" for some code/functions being refused. Granted, there are some relavant reasons.
I gave pro and con for submitting code in the parent thread, but if Bruce would rather just get on with his job, do not submit code here. Share it with anyone who asks for it, but don't do it in euphorum, the devlist, or the ticket page on this site or sourceforge. There's just too much overhead.
I agree. If Bruce (or anyone else) cannot stand to have his code reviewed by others, he should not submit it for consideration to be added to euphoria. Working on a team / group project is much more challenging than working as an individual.
The development process of euphoria currently woks by consensus. Discussions occur here and on the dev list. It's not uncommon for there to be disagreements (yes, even when you're not involved!). These often get hashed out in sometimes heated discussions. I'm sure the people who've been working as developers would be happy to hear any other ideas about governance of the project, but I think the current process is serving us fairly well right now.
Matt
5. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1809 views
I am not going to spend any real amount of time on this post or in this thread, it's a bit useless, but I did want to clarify a few things.
Just as you are allowed to make improvements in Euphoria every day, i am not allowed to make improvements, every day.
You were on the dev team and did commit code directly just as I do but you flew off the handle when your code met legitimate criticisms, as all of our code does. We've went over this before.
Or how there was a tide against me when i asked for string handling functions a decade ago, wrote strtok.e, and then those functions were added to Eu v4
- How many people's code was not added to Euphoria a decade ago? I think just about no ones code was added, right?
- Your strtok.e code was not added to Euphoria. I believe you are speaking about split? This is entirely new code that does many different things. It accomplishes one of the tasks in strtok but many others as well. In no part was it derived or even thought of because of strtok. split is a very common method in almost any language. Because it wasn't in Euphoria, was in strtok and is now in Euphoria does not mean anything.
There's many functions in strtok.e, i was not speaking of only split.
I believe the getxml() in strtok lib would detect some misuse of the creole tags in this forum, from missing tags to overlapping tags fields, but that suggestion was overlooked as well.
Overlooked?!? I looked at strtok very early on in 4.0 development. getxml does what it says it does but it is by no means a complete XML parser. I did not want to introduce just partial XML handling. I felt it necessary to hold out for full XML processing, including the parsing, creating and querying of via X-Path. Until we get that, I don't think XML handling should be part of core.
It wasn't meant to be "complete" for everyone, i didn't even design it for Euphoria or the internet, i wrote it in the early 1990's for my own use. But for use IN THIS FORUM (and i did say IN THIS FORUM, while you are arguing now about INCLUDING IT IN V4 CORE), it would have sufficed to DETECT (not FIX) errors. This change in context is one example i yell out about harrassment. I never suggested getxml be part of the core, yet i must defend myself?
CK's posted pic which included a view of the header on euphorum being overlapped by tabs used to select other pages was fixable by css code i submitted, and i think CK also submitted code, and yet the problem persists. The submitted code isn't in use.
and it did mess up other areas (would wrap down onto the white sometimes). Again, we need a total solution. The end result is that we are going to remove the entire message subject or ticket title from the "Logo" area as it's not necessary due to it being displayed right below the logo area and in the title bar. This just has not been done yet and that's my code that I developed and it isn't in euweb yet either!
<me> No one suggested to anyone they go back to the drawing board to fix this or that in their submissions, only that they were refused. I was told a 15 inch monitor was just not acceptable and i should shut up and go buy a wider monitor. </me>
... removed the rest of the post as it had nothing I wished to comment on as it's all been discussed thousands of times before ...
Jeremy
6. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1822 views
You were on the dev team and did commit code directly just as I do but you flew off the handle when your code met legitimate criticisms, as all of our code does. We've went over this before.
I "flew off the handle" after days of trying to explain the use of the word "to" in the context of how you misstated the suggestion that a task be allowed to yield the parent. Again, there is a difference between "yield the parent" and "yield TO the parent". Regardless of how the task manager operates, there will be timing issues and program flow issues, and i was and remain against a task yielding it's parent task.
This had/has ZERO to do with task messaging, but if that paragraph is not completely clear to you, then in frustration, i do not know how i can explain why task msging is a good idea. It's just crystal clear to me that a task which returns data only when it's abort() quit() or return()'d is not keeping in the spirit or complete functionality of the task concept.
So we discuss my inability to make that clear, and instead to leave, and take the arguement to euphorum, where the arguement is STILL not pertaining to task msging directly, again i ask, why bother submitting more new task msging code, when i must defend myself (against your inability to understand "to") every time it's brought up?
When you developed an ifdef to deal with the "compile as dll", and added that plus some to http.e (and i have no problems with you doing that), someone said that was "fixing" (or was it "correcting"?) my code. That's a complete mischaracterisation of what happened, and i feel that was an attack against me.
We fought about "progression of code developement" regarding news.ex, and you said that should go into a tutorial, and i did agree with that. Yet just submitting the series caused an uproar, because the most recent in the series was not nice and tidy and the final complete .ex file. Somehow, the open source mantra "release early, release often" was turned against me, which is odd, considering i was the only one working on that code, and it was a development environment and no official release was due.
So the code worked, there was no significant constructive critique of the code, but every irrelavant side issue was thrown at me.
useless
7. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1819 views
Just as you are allowed to make improvements in Euphoria every day, i am not allowed to make improvements, every day. So it's not far from my mind that the off-topic harrassment which was against me on euphorum stopped only when i took removed all code for task messaging.
This is only because you refuse to participate. I'm not aware of anyone ever pressuring you to remove any code, and certainly any correlation between anything I wrote and anything you posted or removed from your site was pure coincidence.
So just to use an analogy, if i move next door to you, yell at you every few hours, flatten your car tires every night, have your power shut off constantly, cut your phone lines, slander you to the neighbors, and then you move, it's just pure coincidence that you moved?
I removed the code to see if you'd get off my back, as well as those arguing over the use of "que" vs "queue", and you did stop the argueing!
I still find it incredible that the choice to abbreviate the word was far more important to fight about than the working code.
useless
8. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1806 views
When you developed an ifdef to deal with the "compile as dll", and added that plus some to http.e (and i have no problems with you doing that), someone said that was "fixing" (or was it "correcting"?) my code. That's a complete mischaracterisation of what happened, and i feel that was an attack against me.
See, here is the problem. When you submit code to the Euphoria project, it is not your code. It's code that exists in the Euphoria project. And, in fact, net/http.e was broke! It would not compile into a DLL, thus, that code was broke. How much more broke does it need to be? Thus, I added a ifdef around the task_yield() to fix the code in Euphoria. I could care less who submitted it, who's code it was or who is trying to claim ownership. If Derek, Matt, Jim, CK or anyone else would have submitted that code and I then tried to use http.e in a DLL and found it wouldn't even compile, then I would have made the same correction and the same comment. And for the record, here is the commit log for the entry in question:
Revision 2666 - (view) (download) (annotate) - [select for diffs] Modified Mon Aug 31 13:01:54 2009 UTC (4 weeks, 3 days ago) by jeremy_c File length: 25603 byte(s) Diff to previous 2631 * Added ifdef EUC_DLL around task_yield() * Formatted a bit (mostly automated, so it's still not 100% right)
Regardless, if I had said Fixed, then I wouldn't care. And do you know what? If Matt, Derek, Jim, CK or anyone else would have submitted the original code when I added the word Fixed to the commit log, do you know what they would have said? Nothing!
Why is this so hard to understand? I'm getting pretty tired of this same old thing. Can you please just accept the fact that this is a community project, that not everything submitted is accepted, that not everything accepted was accepted as is and that not everything in Euphoria is going to remain exactly how it was yesterday and that any change to Euphoria is not a personal attack!
Jeremy
9. Re: submitting code
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1797 views
Just as you are allowed to make improvements in Euphoria every day, i am not allowed to make improvements, every day. So it's not far from my mind that the off-topic harrassment which was against me on euphorum stopped only when i took removed all code for task messaging.
This is only because you refuse to participate. I'm not aware of anyone ever pressuring you to remove any code, and certainly any correlation between anything I wrote and anything you posted or removed from your site was pure coincidence.
So just to use an analogy, if i move next door to you, yell at you every few hours, flatten your car tires every night, have your power shut off constantly, cut your phone lines, slander you to the neighbors, and then you move, it's just pure coincidence that you moved?
Really, that's an analogy? There's a guy on slashdot whose username is BadAnalogyGuy. You'd do him proud. But he usually has car analogies.
I removed the code to see if you'd get off my back, as well as those arguing over the use of "que" vs "queue", and you did stop the argueing!
I still find it incredible that the choice to abbreviate the word was far more important to fight about than the working code.
To the best of my knowledge, I've never even been to your site. I really don't care what you decide to do with your site or your code, but if you're interested in getting it into euphoria, then it will be reviewed. And yes, that includes the choice of names.
The ensuing argument came after you dredged up old business, and really wasn't even about the task messaging code...not even the routine names. I'm sorry for responding to your provocations, and I try to ignore your posts, but there are only so many personal attacks that I can ignore before responding.
Matt
10. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1771 views
So just to use an analogy, if i move next door to you, yell at you every few hours, flatten your car tires every night, have your power shut off constantly, cut your phone lines, slander you to the neighbors, and then you move, it's just pure coincidence that you moved?
That's not at all accurate. Maybe more like you guys decided to build a fence between your property line together then started talking about the design. After quite a few days of debating everyone finally came up with a design that was acceptable so building began. In one place that you built, Matt noticed a nail wasn't hammered in all the way so he finished hammering it in. Then you began complaining, arguing and whining that no one likes your work even though Derek had come over to Matt's house to visit and noticed Matt had missed 10 nails so he hammered them in real quick for Matt. Matt noticed Derek doing it and said, hey, thanks Derek! Soon, you tore down the fence and burned it in a huge bon fire since no one liked how you hammered a nail in.
That's a bit more realistic.
Jeremy
11. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1784 views
When you developed an ifdef to deal with the "compile as dll", and added that plus some to http.e (and i have no problems with you doing that), someone said that was "fixing" (or was it "correcting"?) my code. That's a complete mischaracterisation of what happened, and i feel that was an attack against me.
See, here is the problem. When you submit code to the Euphoria project, it is not your code. It's code that exists in the Euphoria project. And, in fact, net/http.e was broke! It would not compile into a DLL, thus, that code was broke. How much more broke does it need to be? Thus, I added a ifdef around the task_yield() to fix the code in Euphoria. I could care less who submitted it, who's code it was or who is trying to claim ownership. If Derek, Matt, Jim, CK or anyone else would have submitted that code and I then tried to use http.e in a DLL and found it wouldn't even compile, then I would have made the same correction and the same comment. And for the record, here is the commit log for the entry in question:
Revision 2666 - (view) (download) (annotate) - [select for diffs] Modified Mon Aug 31 13:01:54 2009 UTC (4 weeks, 3 days ago) by jeremy_c File length: 25603 byte(s) Diff to previous 2631 * Added ifdef EUC_DLL around task_yield() * Formatted a bit (mostly automated, so it's still not 100% right)
Regardless, if I had said Fixed, then I wouldn't care. And do you know what? If Matt, Derek, Jim, CK or anyone else would have submitted the original code when I added the word Fixed to the commit log, do you know what they would have said? Nothing!
Why is this so hard to understand? I'm getting pretty tired of this same old thing. Can you please just accept the fact that this is a community project, that not everything submitted is accepted, that not everything accepted was accepted as is and that not everything in Euphoria is going to remain exactly how it was yesterday and that any change to Euphoria is not a personal attack!
Jeremy
That's all fine and good, it's not MY code, yet Matt did say you fixed MY code, when in fact the problem was due to the task code not allowing the dll to compile properly. I did add task code to http.e, and sped it up considerably, and was adding task msging to it as well, making it even more multi-tasking-friendly. Matts tone was derisive, and implying it was all me that broke it, and there were no other factors, but i don't see it as my fault that a general lib (tasks) was not tested to be useable in a dll before it was added to core.
I am aware no code stays the same for long. AGAIN, i did not consider what you did to be an attack, i considered it code development and evolution. I did not complain about your fixes, they were valid. In fact, i was happy the code was staying in despite me "breaking" it, and a way was being sought to allow task.e to be useable in http.e. Can you please just accept this fact, or must this also be in contention forever?
Bruce, see what you get if you submit code and care enough about Euphoria to try to help develop it?
useless
12. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1809 views
So just to use an analogy, if i move next door to you, yell at you every few hours, flatten your car tires every night, have your power shut off constantly, cut your phone lines, slander you to the neighbors, and then you move, it's just pure coincidence that you moved?
That's not at all accurate. Maybe more like you guys decided to build a fence between your property line together then started talking about the design. After quite a few days of debating everyone finally came up with a design that was acceptable so building began. In one place that you built, Matt noticed a nail wasn't hammered in all the way so he finished hammering it in. Then you began complaining, arguing and whining that no one likes your work even though Derek had come over to Matt's house to visit and noticed Matt had missed 10 nails so he hammered them in real quick for Matt. Matt noticed Derek doing it and said, hey, thanks Derek! Soon, you tore down the fence and burned it in a huge bon fire since no one liked how you hammered a nail in.
That's a bit more realistic.
Jeremy
Except Derek also took care of my nails with no objections, while Matt just complained of my hammer color, the ground on my side of the fence, and the meaning of "here".
useless
13. Re: submitting code
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1921 views
... it's misleading to suggest that all working useable desireable code is going to be considered in a positive light
I never said that so how can you say what I said was misleading?
The nearest I got to that was that I implied that all submitted work would be examined on its merits. If I submitted something that I wanted but everyone (or majority) regarded as junk then it will be rejected.
Just as you are allowed to make improvements in Euphoria every day, i am not allowed to make improvements, every day.
Now hang on there ... you decided to remove yourself from the development team. No one pushed you out or even told to you to leave. It was your decision so don't start on about not being allowed. You, like everyone else not in that team can still submit ideas and code. YOU ARE ALLOWED.
So it's not far from my mind that the off-topic harrassment which was against me on euphorum stopped only when i took removed all code for task messaging.
What you call "harrassment", nearly everyone calls "opposing opinion". Getting opposing opinion is a good thing - it helps one clarify one's own stance on things.
Or how there was a tide against me when i asked for string handling functions a decade ago, wrote strtok.e, and then those functions were added to Eu v4, but i was useless in that addition. Functions i didn't release with strtok v3 were not in Eu v4, functions i use every day, which i believe would be a valueable contribution. In deep depression i simply gave Derek permission to scrape whatever he wanted from the lib. I knew better than to do any more to be helpful.
A "tide"!?!?! Really ... a "tide"?? If I recall, there might have been two or three people that had differing ideas about some of that library's functionality.
Now some functionality that is common with your library has been included in Euphoria. These were not lifted from your code and were added because they are common to most language's standard library.
I believe the getxml() in strtok lib would detect some misuse of the creole tags in this forum, from missing tags to overlapping tags fields, but that suggestion was overlooked as well.
Well you'd be wrong then. That function would not help the creole parsing because creole syntax is vastly different from XML.
CK's posted pic which included a view of the header on euphorum being overlapped by tabs used to select other pages was fixable by css code i submitted, and i think CK also submitted code, and yet the problem persists. The submitted code isn't in use.
Even though it reduced that problem, your CSS file caused other problems to occur.
I use the task msg handler every day, and make incremental improvements, expanding it's scope to handling msg passing across a lan or the internet, but i actually now fear the idea of submitting this code, because the code isn't the object of the derision, i am. Several times in this forum and on the devlist, verbal fights took away time better spent on coding, fights which as often as not had nothing to do with the submitted code.
These "fights" did not begin as such. They began as honest requests for explanation or as opposing opinions, but seemed to escalate rapidly when you started to take them personally, which they never were.
What Derek had said as a blanket statement was over-simplified and could have had many caveats added. I added comments where he made the statement. While i respect Derek, i do not respect the process as applied here or some of the participants. More than one person has stated we traded the dictatorship of RobC for an equally frustrating dictatorship. There is just no end of irrelavant "reasons" for some code/functions being refused. Granted, there are some relavant reasons.
It was not "over-simplified". What caveats are required?
Name one rejection that was done so for irrelevant reasons.
I gave pro and con for submitting code in the parent thread, but if Bruce would rather just get on with his job, do not submit code here. Share it with anyone who asks for it, but don't do it in euphorum, the devlist, or the ticket page on this site or sourceforge. There's just too much overhead.
And what should be done instead to get anyone's code into Euphoria?
14. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1902 views
... it's misleading to suggest that all working useable desireable code is going to be considered in a positive light
I never said that so how can you say what I said was misleading?
The nearest I got to that was that I implied that all submitted work would be examined on its merits. If I submitted something that I wanted but everyone (or majority) regarded as junk then it will be rejected.
It was objectionable that i pointed out that good code may be thrown out for no good reasons. This puts the whole process of reviewing code in a bad light. But it's true, you never stated the obvious inferal to what you and/or i said. If i submit code, it's not examined on it's merits. I feel some other people have also submitted code not in core Eu, which would have been if examined on it's merits.
Just as you are allowed to make improvements in Euphoria every day, i am not allowed to make improvements, every day.
Now hang on there ... you decided to remove yourself from the development team. No one pushed you out or even told to you to leave. It was your decision so don't start on about not being allowed. You, like everyone else not in that team can still submit ideas and code. YOU ARE ALLOWED.
Fine, sign me up again!
Uh huh, lets see how far that gets!
So it's not far from my mind that the off-topic harrassment which was against me on euphorum stopped only when i took removed all code for task messaging.
What you call "harrassment", nearly everyone calls "opposing opinion". Getting opposing opinion is a good thing - it helps one clarify one's own stance on things.
Defining "to" isn't "opposing opinion". Me raising no objections to Jeremy "fixing" code to allow tasking to be be used in http.e while someone else is saying me using the (apparently untested) code is what broke it, isn't "opposing opinion".
Or how there was a tide against me when i asked for string handling functions a decade ago, wrote strtok.e, and then those functions were added to Eu v4, but i was useless in that addition. Functions i didn't release with strtok v3 were not in Eu v4, functions i use every day, which i believe would be a valueable contribution. In deep depression i simply gave Derek permission to scrape whatever he wanted from the lib. I knew better than to do any more to be helpful.
A "tide"!?!?! Really ... a "tide"?? If I recall, there might have been two or three people that had differing ideas about some of that library's functionality. [/quote] Yes, it went something along the lines of: "Eu has sequences, we don't need strings or a string lib".
Now some functionality that is common with your library has been included in Euphoria. These were not lifted from your code and were added because they are common to most language's standard library.
That's fine too. It's just that after a decade of using strings in Eu, no one said "hey useless, test this in your work and see if it breaks".
I believe the getxml() in strtok lib would detect some misuse of the creole tags in this forum, from missing tags to overlapping tags fields, but that suggestion was overlooked as well.
Well you'd be wrong then. That function would not help the creole parsing because creole syntax is vastly different from XML.
It has opening and closing tags, that's all that getxml operates on. How is creole not using closing tags? I bet if i leave out a few, the forum layout will be trashed again. You can spec what the tags are in getxml. If there's one set of in a fear the idea of submitting this code, because the code isn't the object of the derision, i am. Several times in this forum and on the devlist, verbal fights took away time better spent on coding, fights which as often as not had nothing to do with the submitted code. [/quote] These "fights" did not begin as such. They began as honest requests for explanation or as opposing opinions, but seemed to escalate rapidly when you started to take them personally, which they never were.
What Derek had said as a blanket statement was over-simplified and could have had many caveats added. I added comments where he made the statement. While i respect Derek, i do not respect the process as applied here or some of the participants. More than one person has stated we traded the dictatorship of RobC for an equally frustrating dictatorship. There is just no end of irrelavant "reasons" for some code/functions being refused. Granted, there are some relavant reasons.
It was not "over-simplified". What caveats are required?
Name one rejection that was done so for irrelevant reasons.
Ok:
Well you'd be wrong then. That function would not help the creole parsing because creole syntax is vastly different from XML.
I gave pro and con for submitting code in the parent thread, but if Bruce would rather just get on with his job, do not submit code here. Share it with anyone who asks for it, but don't do it in euphorum, the devlist, or the ticket page on this site or sourceforge. There's just too much overhead.
And what should be done instead to get anyone's code into Euphoria?
Perhaps the process working as advertised.
useless
15. Re: submitting code
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1844 views
That's all fine and good, it's not MY code, yet Matt did say you fixed MY code, when in fact the problem was due to the task code not allowing the dll to compile properly. I did add task code to http.e, and sped it up considerably, and was adding task msging to it as well, making it even more multi-tasking-friendly. Matts tone was derisive, and implying it was all me that broke it, and there were no other factors, but i don't see it as my fault that a general lib (tasks) was not tested to be useable in a dll before it was added to core.
If I said he fixed YOUR code, I'm sure I meant it as code that you'd submitted. I don't recall saying much of anything about the ifdef, other than to discuss other ways around that particular issue. Most what I said was focused on other code, and on mutitasking concepts in general (especially this), rather than any specific code.
I don't think anyone but you cares whose fault anything was. I'm sure I've created more bugs than you (probably than anyone) in the development of v4. The goal was simply to figure it out and fix it. Again, it's not all about you.
I am aware no code stays the same for long. AGAIN, i did not consider what you did to be an attack, i considered it code development and evolution. I did not complain about your fixes, they were valid. In fact, i was happy the code was staying in despite me "breaking" it, and a way was being sought to allow task.e to be useable in http.e. Can you please just accept this fact, or must this also be in contention forever?
We've accepted it. Have you? Signs point to no. Why else would you continue to bring this up?
Matt
16. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1762 views
That's all fine and good, it's not MY code, yet Matt did say you fixed MY code, when in fact the problem was due to the task code not allowing the dll to compile properly. I did add task code to http.e, and sped it up considerably, and was adding task msging to it as well, making it even more multi-tasking-friendly. Matts tone was derisive, and implying it was all me that broke it, and there were no other factors, but i don't see it as my fault that a general lib (tasks) was not tested to be useable in a dll before it was added to core.
If I said he fixed YOUR code, I'm sure I meant it as code that you'd submitted. I don't recall saying much of anything about the ifdef, other than to discuss other ways around that particular issue. Most what I said was focused on other code, and on mutitasking concepts in general (especially this), rather than any specific code.
I don't think anyone but you cares whose fault anything was. I'm sure I've created more bugs than you (probably than anyone) in the development of v4. The goal was simply to figure it out and fix it. Again, it's not all about you.
Well, Jeremy did go on about it not being "my" code. You did say it was "my" code. I don't care much, this is like the days-old fight about defining "to". It wasn't in fact code that i wrote that was the cause of the dll not compiling, only that i used it, and that exposed the problem. Yet you said Jeremy fixed my code, and he said i broke http.e.
Yeas, you going on about tasks as a concept, and how i didn't have a clue, also got to be grating.
I am aware no code stays the same for long. AGAIN, i did not consider what you did to be an attack, i considered it code development and evolution. I did not complain about your fixes, they were valid. In fact, i was happy the code was staying in despite me "breaking" it, and a way was being sought to allow task.e to be useable in http.e. Can you please just accept this fact, or must this also be in contention forever?
That was a quote to Jeremy.
We've accepted it. Have you? Signs point to no. Why else would you continue to bring this up?
Matt
Perhaps because there was little to discuss about the code, and lots more mileage to be had critiquing all the issues around code i submitted. For instance asking what size monitor i have and suggesting i get a bigger one, rather than tell me why the css i submitted wasn't useful.
This topic started basically as "why to not submit code".
useless
17. Re: submitting code
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1802 views
Well, Jeremy did go on about it not being "my" code. You did say it was "my" code. I don't care much, this is like the days-old fight about defining "to". It wasn't in fact code that i wrote that was the cause of the dll not compiling, only that i used it, and that exposed the problem. Yet you said Jeremy fixed my code, and he said i broke http.e.
Yeas, you going on about tasks as a concept, and how i didn't have a clue, also got to be grating.
I still wonder about why you think the discussion was about defining the word 'to'. It was clear then and now that you never understood tasks at a low level, which is what the discussion was really about.
Perhaps because there was little to discuss about the code, and lots more mileage to be had critiquing all the issues around code i submitted. For instance asking what size monitor i have and suggesting i get a bigger one, rather than tell me why the css i submitted wasn't useful.
This topic started basically as "why to not submit code".
Yes, that's how it was started. And you keep repeating the same nonsense, or changing the topic. I don't know much about the CSS discussion. I never got involved too much in that, but I understand it's a great opportunity to play the martyr, so I won't try to stop you.
Matt
18. Re: submitting code
- Posted by Fendaril Oct 01, 2009
- 1815 views
<quote> quote: useless
Well, Jeremy did go on about it not being "my" code. You did say it was "my" code. I don't care much, this is like the days-old fight about defining "to". It wasn't in fact code that i wrote that was the cause of the dll not compiling, only that i used it, and that exposed the problem. Yet you said Jeremy fixed my code, and he said i broke http.e.
Yeas, you going on about tasks as a concept, and how i didn't have a clue, also got to be grating.
I still wonder about why you think the discussion was about defining the word 'to'. It was clear then and now that you never understood tasks at a low level, which is what the discussion was really about.
quote: useless
Perhaps because there was little to discuss about the code, and lots more mileage to be had critiquing all the issues around code i submitted. For instance asking what size monitor i have and suggesting i get a bigger one, rather than tell me why the css i submitted wasn't useful.
This topic started basically as "why to not submit code".
Yes, that's how it was started. And you keep repeating the same nonsense, or changing the topic. I don't know much about the CSS discussion. I never got involved too much in that, but I understand it's a great opportunity to play the martyr, so I won't try to stop you.
Matt
</quote>
I think the discussion started on the use of spanish.
19. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1717 views
Well, Jeremy did go on about it not being "my" code. You did say it was "my" code. I don't care much, this is like the days-old fight about defining "to". It wasn't in fact code that i wrote that was the cause of the dll not compiling, only that i used it, and that exposed the problem. Yet you said Jeremy fixed my code, and he said i broke http.e.
Yeas, you going on about tasks as a concept, and how i didn't have a clue, also got to be grating.
I still wonder about why you think the discussion was about defining the word 'to'. It was clear then and now that you never understood tasks at a low level, which is what the discussion was really about.
That was 2 different topics!
"to" was about the difference between "yielding a task", and "yielding TO a task", and YOU converted that to me not understanding what the task manager does, even after i tell you i wrote a cooperative task manager for the C64 in the mid 1980's, in machine code, poking bytes into memory. I also used Windows 3.1 and 3.11, i still have the install floppies, both were cooperative multitasking.
I know how the task manager works, i know how i write code, i know how i spec the timeframe for each task.
See what i mean, Bruce, about frustration and never-ending explainations of what should be clear to all?
useless
20. Re: submitting code
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1733 views
"to" was about the difference between "yielding a task", and "yielding TO a task", and YOU converted that to me not understanding what the task manager does, even after i tell you i wrote a cooperative task manager for the C64 in the mid 1980's, in machine code, poking bytes into memory. I also used Windows 3.1 and 3.11, i still have the install floppies, both were cooperative multitasking.
I know how the task manager works, i know how i write code, i know how i spec the timeframe for each task.
No, you still don't understand it (or are being deliberately obtuse) if you're still saying "yield to a task". You yield to the task scheduler, and it decides which task to run. I believe that you did all of those things. It doesn't make any difference to your understanding of how euphoria multitasking works at a low level.
Matt
21. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1740 views
"to" was about the difference between "yielding a task", and "yielding TO a task", and YOU converted that to me not understanding what the task manager does, even after i tell you i wrote a cooperative task manager for the C64 in the mid 1980's, in machine code, poking bytes into memory. I also used Windows 3.1 and 3.11, i still have the install floppies, both were cooperative multitasking.
I know how the task manager works, i know how i write code, i know how i spec the timeframe for each task.
No, you still don't understand it (or are being deliberately obtuse) if you're still saying "yield to a task". You yield to the task scheduler, and it decides which task to run. I believe that you did all of those things. It doesn't make any difference to your understanding of how euphoria multitasking works at a low level.
Matt
- $%$^&@H$@!$# tun8913 4yri17 3yoircqe
WE HAVE BEEN OVER THIS
YOU are the one being insanely dense. Jeremy MISstated a proposal that said yield TO a parent, i objected to that suggestion. Why the hell can't you follow from one line to the next? I KEEP SAYING i object to the proposal that that happen. Turns out he didn't mean that at all, after 2 days of fighting to get you to understand the difference, and now here we STILL are, with your lil peabrain stuck on me thinking that is the way Eu's taskmanager does it, because i objected to it!
Bruce? See?
useless
22. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1700 views
Matt,
If i object to the proposal that i eat rhinocerous steak tomorrow for breakfast, do you believe i think i am currently eating rhinocerous steak? Do you think i do not understand that i am not currently eating rhinocerous steak?
If i am sitting in a movie theatre, watching "MovieQ", and someone suggests we get up and leave and go to the other theatre to watch "MovieP", do you believe i think we are watching "MovieP", even tho we never left the theatre which is showing "MovieQ", just because i objected to leaving for the other movie?
I don't understand how objecting to a proposal would cause one to believe that proposal is the current state of affairs, because if it was the current state of affairs, why would there be a proposal to change to it?
useless
23. Re: submitting code
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1707 views
I don't understand how objecting to a proposal would cause one to believe that proposal is the current state of affairs, because if it was the current state of affairs, why would there be a proposal to change to it?
I was objecting to the way you were describing tasks. Here's the way I remember it:
Jeremy proposed the ability to call task_yield() from a translated euphoria dll that would call the task scheduler of the main process. He never talked about a 'parent' anything. That was all your language.
You kept talking about parents with respect to tasks, and about yielding to particular tasks, and not in a, "hey, let's change the behavior of task_yield() to do thus and such." If that's what you were really trying to get at, then yeah, I totally missed it, because it really had nothing to do with what we were talking about.
And in that context, you kept using the same language to refer to actual, running code, indicating to me that, while you had managed to improve the code, you didn't understand what was going on under the hood. It was never apparent to me that you understood otherwise, and it was actually an important concept for the topic we were discussing.
Matt
24. Re: submitting code
- Posted by euphoric (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1721 views
Bruce? See?
I suspect the only thing he sees right now is the ravings of a useless lunatic. But I digress...
I don't think you have any place to berate Matt. I think you should step it down a notch and refrain from name-calling and insults.
25. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1722 views
Yet you said Jeremy fixed my code, and he said i broke http.e.
Where, and even if I did, it's because you take such ownership of it and it was broken, but I don't recall saying you broke http.e. Please cite a reference, then I'll believe it.
Jeremy
26. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1727 views
I don't understand how objecting to a proposal would cause one to believe that proposal is the current state of affairs, because if it was the current state of affairs, why would there be a proposal to change to it?
I was objecting to the way you were describing tasks. Here's the way I remember it:
Jeremy proposed the ability to call task_yield() from a translated euphoria dll that would call the task scheduler of the main process. He never talked about a 'parent' anything. That was all your language.
You kept talking about parents with respect to tasks, and about yielding to particular tasks, and not in a, "hey, let's change the behavior of task_yield() to do thus and such." If that's what you were really trying to get at, then yeah, I totally missed it, because it really had nothing to do with what we were talking about.
And in that context, you kept using the same language to refer to actual, running code, indicating to me that, while you had managed to improve the code, you didn't understand what was going on under the hood. It was never apparent to me that you understood otherwise, and it was actually an important concept for the topic we were discussing.
Matt
Date sent: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:37:00 -0400 From: Jeremy Cowgar <jeremy@cowgar.com> To: OpenEuphoria Developer Discussion <rapideuphoria-develop@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: [Rapideuphoria-develop] task_yield and shared libraries
Instead of making task_yield a noop in shared libraries, would it be possible to make it call the main processes task_yield() function?
In the main process, the main process can call it's task_yield. No other task should be able to call the main process's task_yield.
Jeremy didn't say "call task_yield of the main process's task manager".
No, he said "call the main processes task_yield() function".
useless
27. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1704 views
Bruce? See?
I suspect the only thing he sees right now is the ravings of a useless lunatic. But I digress...
I don't think you have any place to berate Matt. I think you should step it down a notch and refrain from name-calling and insults.
I don't seeing you suggesting the same to Matt when he is insulting.
useless
28. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1712 views
See what i mean, Bruce, about frustration and never-ending explainations of what should be clear to all?
No, I do not see it at all. All I see is blowing normal community development processes into a everyone hates me and my code drama. Do you know that there 16 developers on the Euphoria project and no one has had the problems you have? Do you know countless others have submitted code with out issue?
Please just give up on the subject.
Jeremy
29. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1714 views
- $%$^&@H$@!$# tun8913 4yri17 3yoircqe
WE HAVE BEEN OVER THIS
YOU are the one being insanely dense. Jeremy MISstated a proposal that said yield TO a parent
NO I DID NOT! YOU ADDED THE TO PART! We've been over this as well!
Jeremy
30. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1712 views
Yet you said Jeremy fixed my code, and he said i broke http.e.
Where, and even if I did, it's because you take such ownership of it and it was broken, but I don't recall saying you broke http.e. Please cite a reference, then I'll believe it.
Jeremy
8. Re: submitting code Posted by jeremy (admin) 5 hours ago 83 views quote: useless
When you developed an ifdef to deal with the "compile as dll", and added that plus some to http.e (and i have no problems with you doing that), someone said that was "fixing" (or was it "correcting"?) my code. That's a complete mischaracterisation of what happened, and i feel that was an attack against me.
See, here is the problem. When you submit code to the Euphoria project, it is not your code. It's code that exists in the Euphoria project. And, in fact, net/http.e was broke! It would not compile into a DLL, thus, that code was broke. How much more broke does it need to be? Thus, I added a ifdef around the task_yield() to fix the code in Euphoria.
And i am the one who added the task_yield to http.e, ergo i broke it, no?
useless
31. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1715 views
Date sent: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:37:00 -0400 From: Jeremy Cowgar <jeremy@cowgar.com> To: OpenEuphoria Developer Discussion <rapideuphoria-develop@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: [Rapideuphoria-develop] task_yield and shared libraries
Instead of making task_yield a noop in shared libraries, would it be possible to make it call the main processes task_yield() function?
In the main process, the main process can call it's task_yield. No other task should be able to call the main process's task_yield.
Jeremy didn't say "call task_yield of the main process's task manager".
No, he said "call the main processes task_yield() function".
Which is exactly what it should do. Then you went into the idea of yielding to a parent task. That's what no one could understand. How do you go from the main processes task_yield() to the parent task?
Jeremy
32. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1762 views
- $%$^&@H$@!$# tun8913 4yri17 3yoircqe
WE HAVE BEEN OVER THIS
YOU are the one being insanely dense. Jeremy MISstated a proposal that said yield TO a parent
NO I DID NOT! YOU ADDED THE TO PART! We've been over this as well!
Jeremy
Date sent: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:37:00 -0400 From: Jeremy Cowgar <jeremy@cowgar.com> To: OpenEuphoria Developer Discussion <rapideuphoria-develop@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: [Rapideuphoria-develop] task_yield and shared libraries
Instead of making task_yield a noop in shared libraries, would it be possible to make it call the main processes task_yield() function?
That is what i mean by MISstating "yield TO the main process".
useless
33. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1681 views
And i am the one who added the task_yield to http.e, ergo i broke it, no?
Yes, you added it and I added a wrap of ifdef when the problem was discovered. What I did not say was "Kat broke http.e" which is what you said I said. I never said that, ergo you're wrong and you are misquoting people.
Adding task_yield() to http.e was a great idea and the correct idea. Then when it was found that task_yield() didn't compile into a DLL we had to take the next step. No one was expecting it or planning on it, thus, I'd never say you broke it! None of us would have guess it. That's what beta testing is about. We add something, we test it, it passes. Later in a beta release a situation is found that it doesn't work.
Again, this is part of a normal community development process.
Jeremy
34. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1720 views
Date sent: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:37:00 -0400 From: Jeremy Cowgar <jeremy@cowgar.com> To: OpenEuphoria Developer Discussion <rapideuphoria-develop@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: [Rapideuphoria-develop] task_yield and shared libraries
Instead of making task_yield a noop in shared libraries, would it be possible to make it call the main processes task_yield() function?
That is what i mean by MISstating "yield TO the main process".
I did not MISstate it. It should call task_yield() from the main process, exactly as I stated it! You took that into yielding to the parent task which was never said, implied, desired or possible.
Further, previously you said that I said "yield to the parent task" which is not what I said at all nor could it be easily mistaken to be such.
Jeremy
35. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1697 views
Date sent: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:37:00 -0400 From: Jeremy Cowgar <jeremy@cowgar.com> To: OpenEuphoria Developer Discussion <rapideuphoria-develop@lists.sourceforge.net> Subject: [Rapideuphoria-develop] task_yield and shared libraries
Instead of making task_yield a noop in shared libraries, would it be possible to make it call the main processes task_yield() function?
In the main process, the main process can call it's task_yield. No other task should be able to call the main process's task_yield.
Jeremy didn't say "call task_yield of the main process's task manager".
No, he said "call the main processes task_yield() function".
Which is exactly what it should do. Then you went into the idea of yielding to a parent task. That's what no one could understand. How do you go from the main processes task_yield() to the parent task?
Jeremy
Main process has a task_yield, by which it yields.
Task1 has a task_yield, by which it yields.
Task1 should not be able to call the main process's task_yield, it should be able to call only it's own task_yield. By calling it's own task_yield, it is yielding the cpu TO the task manager to assign to other tasks, such as the main task, since it's the only other task mentioned here.
If task1 calls the main process's task_yield, then task manager is told the main task has yielded.
In this example, the main process is the only executing code other than task1, therefor the main process is task1's parent.
useless
36. Re: submitting code
- Posted by Tabishi Oct 01, 2009
- 1803 views
Bruce? See?
I suspect the only thing he sees right now is the ravings of a useless lunatic. But I digress...
I don't think you have any place to berate Matt. I think you should step it down a notch and refrain from name-calling and insults.
I think they should take this nonsense to the dev list or the irc channel. This is really a waste of a good topic and the waste of normal community development like Jeremy said.It is plainy obvious that this is going no where and continuation of this will lead to more name calling and possibly profanity. Can we end this?
37. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jaygade Oct 01, 2009
- 1690 views
I actually find it interesting since I couldn't find the referenced discussions on the dev list.
Forked into: Euphoria dlls with multitasking
38. Re: submitting code
- Posted by jeremy (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1701 views
Main process has a task_yield, by which it yields.
Task1 has a task_yield, by which it yields.
Task1 should not be able to call the main process's task_yield, it should be able to call only it's own task_yield. By calling it's own task_yield, it is yielding the cpu TO the task manager to assign to other tasks, such as the main task, since it's the only other task mentioned here.
If task1 calls the main process's task_yield, then task manager is told the main task has yielded.
In this example, the main process is the only executing code other than task1, therefor the main process is task1's parent.
I'm not going to go into why this is wrong again. I am going to do what Tabishi has suggested and just cease responding to this topic and any other topic like it. Trying to explain it in the past is what lead you to quitting the dev team and all sorts of further explosions. No sense it doing it again.
Jeremy
39. Re: submitting code
- Posted by euphoric (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1659 views
I don't think you have any place to berate Matt. I think you should step it down a notch and refrain from name-calling and insults.
I don't seeing you suggesting the same to Matt when he is insulting.
- If Matt does resort to an insult, it would be a last resort, one-time thing.
- Matt doesn't insult people. In this whole scenario, he's been very reserved. Many of us have been.
You, on the other hand, aren't as polite. You should always try to be.
Or go away.
40. Re: submitting code
- Posted by useless Oct 01, 2009
- 1653 views
- Last edited Oct 02, 2009
I don't think you have any place to berate Matt. I think you should step it down a notch and refrain from name-calling and insults.
I don't seeing you suggesting the same to Matt when he is insulting.
- If Matt does resort to an insult, it would be a last resort, one-time thing.
- Matt doesn't insult people. In this whole scenario, he's been very reserved. Many of us have been.
matt said...
It was clear then and now that you never understood tasks at a low level, which is what the discussion was really about.
And you keep repeating the same nonsense
the CSS discussion. I never got involved too much in that, but I understand it's a great opportunity to play the martyr
No, you still don't understand it (or are being deliberately obtuse)
You, on the other hand, aren't as polite. You should always try to be.euphoric said...ravings of a useless lunatic
Or go away.
Ah Ck, you have been asking me to go away for years, you think i will start listening to you now?
Being polite didn't make me any more useful.
useless
41. Re: submitting code
- Posted by euphoric (admin) Oct 01, 2009
- 1679 views
- Last edited Oct 02, 2009
Ah Ck, you have been asking me to go away for years, you think i will start listening to you now?
And you did go away.
But then you came back.