1. Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by SDPringle Jul 02, 2022
- 2420 views
As probably all of the users here know, I am a occasional developer for Euphoria. I see myself as more of a curator. When deciding what language to use for a programming project, I go through the following process.
First, see if the software already exists. If it's free, I decide against doing it. Second, Decide on constraints to language choice. This is automatic. If it needs to run on a free web-hosting service you're stuck with PHP and Javascript. That's the reality of the situation. If it needs to run in the front end, it is Typescript or Javascript and maybe some framework like React. Third, see which APIs are available for and which languages have native support for it. I don't mean using c_func/c_proc. I mean an API that already exists and is not buggy. Fourth, based on the available APIs choose the language.
This process almost always leads me to use Typescript/Javascript/Node, C plus plus or Python. If I need something that only needs to do things available in the standard library of Euphoria, I'll probably use EUPHORIA.
Although for display and IO, I prefer C plus plus iostream to Euphoria's printf or puts in Euphoria; for walking over a directory, Euphoria's simplified dir or walk_dir saves time. The boost path class is a good analogue and I guess it is more a matter of custom than being better or less intiutive.
You can write a faster program in C plus plus but you can run a program faster in EUPHORIA.
Why do you use EUPHORIA? In which situations would you not use Euphoria?
SD Pringle
2. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by Icy_Viking Jul 02, 2022
- 2400 views
As programming mainly as a hobby, I use Euphoria because it is fast and simple. I can easily write wrappers to address my needs for most cases. As I mainly deal with game development, C#, Euphoria and C/CPlusPlus are what I mainly use. I've used Python, PHP, HTML, Javascript, etc. When it comes down to game programming you can use pretty much any language, remember when it was common for games to be programmed in Assembly? However Euphoria is not without its faults. It doesn't have a built-in struct command, like say what C has. This would help grealty with coding and keeping things organized, especially in game programming.
The good news is that Eu 4.2 is about to address the struct issue and some other issues with Euphoria. I think that once 4.2 is released, Euphoria will have a lot of things that will really help it grow, I think. It would be a dream if I could make a living write code in Euphoria!
3. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by SDPringle Jul 02, 2022
- 2390 views
Do you thnk that structs should be sequences with names rather than numbers for indexing?
I can imagine that we could get some surprises with the struct branch. Take the tm struct for example. Here each member is an integer, or in C terms, ints. Can we have a user defined type combined with this struct?
4. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by Icy_Viking Jul 02, 2022
- 2376 views
Do you thnk that structs should be sequences with names rather than numbers for indexing?
I can imagine that we could get some surprises with the struct branch. Take the tm struct for example. Here each member is an integer, or in C terms, ints. Can we have a user defined type combined with this struct?
I'd rather structs work similar to how they work in C. Something along the lines of
struct PLAYER integer health atom x,y end struct PLAYER new_player new_player.health = 100
I think structs in 4.2 are going to work something similar to that, give or take.
5. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by petelomax Jul 03, 2022
- 2352 views
struct PLAYER integer health atom x,y end struct PLAYER new_player new_player.health = 100
I think structs in 4.2 are going to work something similar to that, give or take.
That works right now in Phix, apart from the fact you need to add " = new()" on the new_player declaration, otherwise it's unassigned variable time.
For those thinking(/claiming) structs will make a big difference, I've only seen ONE person adopt Phix since it got them, now nearly three years ago.
Can we have a user defined type combined with this struct?
Of course, why on earth would you think not?
6. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by SDPringle Jul 03, 2022
- 2352 views
Okay, pete. Why do you use Phix? Is it just to maintain Phix itself? That makes sense, but do you use it for other reasons?
7. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by petelomax Jul 04, 2022
- 2320 views
Okay, Pete. Why do you use Phix? Is it just to maintain Phix itself? That makes sense, but do you use it for other reasons?
It is quite true that maintaining and enhancing Phix has completely taken over, and not unfair to say "If I don't use it, how can I expect anyone else to?"
Of course I use it for little things all the time, like figuring out the best deal, checking facts and figures, but typically that all gets forgotten about pretty quickly.
I realise there is an ever-diminishing market for desktop these days, and while I've made great strides towards using Phix on the web, I'm still stuck needing to extend it even more to make proper use of it.
Some things I would/really ought to do:
- A decent smart shopping list. Just the other week I bought a can of chicken in white wine sauce for £1.60, only to see it at £1.30 in the next shop and then just £1 in the next...
It would of course need to be cloud-based, and dirt-simple to update on the go. Maybe even shared updates on a central server, just to prove that is possible. - A simple to-do list, again something I can easily tap into mid-walk, rather than rely on my ageing brain to remember when I get home hours later.
Of course I or anyone else certainly don't want to be copying files to/from desktop/mobile all the time, instead it all needs to be properly cloud-based. - A TV guide that filters out crud I'm not interested in, and highlights things I am, with it being easy to tap on something and add a new filter.
Yes, there is a perfectly decent dumb one on the telly itself, but scanning through 50 (freeview) channels can take quite a while, especially for the next 7 days.
Nothing too fancy, just proper handy, but alas Phix[on'tinternet] still ain't quite there yet, and I wouldn't want to carry that laptop far, even if I got a new battery for it.
Actually that third one would have no real benefit to being runnable on the web/mobile, it's just me being too lazy/distracted/and busy with other stuff.
What few games I have written (2048, sudoku, 15 puzzle, black box...) have just convinced me I shouldn't, as I just end up wasting too much time playing them.
8. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by ChrisB (moderator) Jul 04, 2022
- 2304 views
I think the real elephant in the room is..... chicken in white wine sauce .... IN A CAN !!!????
Otherwise expressed as
struct vomit
atom Chicken
object wine
sequence white_sauce
end struct
Cheers
Chris
9. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by petelomax Jul 05, 2022
- 2271 views
I will agree it's not particularly appetising if you just slop it on the side of a plate, but it is
actually quite nice in pancakes as an occasional treat (hence me having no idea how much it costs),
and is perhaps one of the closest things there is to a traditional Lomax family recipe.
Besides, I am borderline anorexic (as in can easily "forget" to eat for 48 hours), so be careful what you disparage
,
and anything I can put in my mouth, even if you don't like it, simply has to be classed as a good thing!
I suppose it is quite probably rather more disgusting if you decide to bleach the chicken first...
Gotta be nicer than those corndog things that the Merkins claim is an actual foodstuff, anyway
(at least, that is, the ones where there's no distinction between the sausage and the batter,
and for extra repulsion factor, I am talking about the ones allegedly made out of chicken).
10. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by ChrisB (moderator) Jul 05, 2022
- 2272 views
Hi Pete.
Now that I know that about you, I shall be mindful in the future of any food related references.
However, try a 'Hunger Break All Day Breakfast in a can' - my wife informs me that this is an abomination of food, so Ill rewrite my struct
struct OneMansMeat
sequence Ingredients = repeat('',10)
integer v_factor
end struct
OneMansMeat ChickWWS etc etc.
Anyway, take care Pete
All the best
Chris
11. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by petelomax Jul 05, 2022
- 2294 views
Don't sweat it. Tee hee, I remember trying one of those once, and being absolutely unable to determine
which thing was supposed to be the hash brown and which thing was supposed to be the scrambled egg!
12. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by RobertS Jul 16, 2022
- 1999 views
For the last 20 years or so I've only written little tools for my own needs on my own computer, all of them for the command line. When I came across Euphoria a long time ago (it was 2.x), I was fascinated with its "objects," its syntax and its simplicity, and knew this was what I wanted. I was perfectly happy with Euphoria 3.1, except for some flaws, but I liked the minimalistic approach that let me create my own solutions for everything that wasn't included. I switched to 4.x when 3.2 never came, but I never felt equally happy with it — it seemed bloated to me (I know, for most other users this meant a wealth of much appreciated new features), and I slowly lost trust that any of the issues I encountered would ever be addressed. Now I've "discovered" Phix, and I'm happy again, because for me, this works — so, thank you! This will not be of much interest to you, but here is my console RPN calculator — www.dunyazad-library.net/software/hypatia/
13. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by petelomax Jul 16, 2022
- 2002 views
Now I've "discovered" Phix, and I'm happy again, because for me, this works — so, thank you!
I thank you back.
This will not be of much interest to you, but here is my console RPN calculator — www.dunyazad-library.net/software/hypatia/
I must say that web page is very nicely written, and I figured I may as well give it a spin. Unfortunately Windows Defender blocks it, presumably a false positive. My advice is to upload a copy of it to https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/wdsi/filesubmission/ - they're usually reasonably quick (<1 week) about dealing with things. Meanwhile, were you to upload a source-only zip, I'd take a gander at that. - scratch that, I've got it now (via temporarily allowing that threat, deleting the exe, then re-enabling that threat and re-scanning [the rest of] it, which was all fine).
Regards, Pete
14. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by RobertS Jul 17, 2022
- 1981 views
(…) Unfortunately Windows Defender blocks it, presumably a false positive. (…)
Thank you for alerting me to this problem. This is weird — I compiled it anew and uploaded a new zip file, I can download it with Chrome, I can download it with PaleMoon, Defender has no problems with the downloaded files, but Edge refuses to download … then I had lunch, did a full scan on my computer — no virus — and now, without having changed anything, I tried downloading hypatia.zip again with Edge, and, no virus, download worked. Either something weird is going on on my computer, or Defender is confused. Since I don't have any virus alerts now, there's nothing I can sumbit to MS for testing, but I'll keep observing this.
But, this virus thing is an annoying distraction — thank you for your interest in my program, I'd love to hear what you think about it. My apologies for some clumsy and/or idiosyncratic code — as I've said, much of it dates back to Euphoria 3.1 if not 2.5, and I've never made proper use of later features.
15. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by petelomax Jul 17, 2022
- 1982 views
That download is all clear here too now, presumably the WD updates I got at 7:20am today fixed it.
(more for my benefit than yours) I've quickly scanned your code, nothing much stood out as wrong.
It prompted me to document begins() and make p2js aware of it, and un-syntax-colour "write".
[I see you've defined begins() yourself, not any kind of issue, ditto trim/split/join.]
Also, I made the "Win32lib" routines a different colour to keywords in Edix (eg cut).
Be warned that I've renamed the builtin constant E as EULER in 1.0.2 (hy_calc.e line 42),
and of course you'll only need to do anything about that when I ship the next version of Phix.
The only other comment I'd make about your code is you've got too many global variables, probably,
but if you're happy maintaining that it's fine.
PS I've just slipped in a quick aid for E->EULER, so now, instead of
?E ^ undefined identifier E
you'll get (in the next release, and only when name=="E")
?E ^ undefined identifier E (E was renamed EULER in 1.0.2)
16. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by RobertS Jul 17, 2022
- 1957 views
(...) I've quickly scanned your code, nothing much stood out as wrong. (...)
Thank you for looking at the code, and for the reassuring result. I should replace the functions I've written long ago with the ones that have long since become part of the language, particularly when they have the same names (or rename mine when I want to keep them.) And, improve documentation - I've written this for my private use, and that shows. But, while occasionally people do download it, I have no idea if anyone actually uses it (until recently there were a lot of bugs that no one ever reported, and there probably still are), nor if anyone before you has ever looked at the source files. Still, one day I hope to make a nice and clean 1.0 version, so, any help and feedback are welcome!
17. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by achury Jul 29, 2022
- 1827 views
I use it because is small and simple.
I am not a professional programmer. Eu is great my hobbies and small projects.
If you think that the people like me is the real target for the language, there are some things that people like me is missing:
1- The Archive: I know that exist github, but to have all the updates, example codes and libraries on one single place, is priceless. And is nice to be proud of publish your small programs there, give you the nice feel that you are really part of the community. I really miss that the archive.
2- Marketplace: I know how to download and install euphoria. But many people don't. We really need euphoria to be included on microsoft market place, so windows users can easily download and use. Also mainstream consumer feels that all the programs out of the marketplace are suspicious.
3- Mobile version: Would be really nice to run eu programs on cell phones or tablets. Check X11-BASIC, you can run simple BASIC programs on android devices.
Regards
Marco Achury
18. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by SDPringle Jul 31, 2022
- 1765 views
I agree that the archive is a important and missing feature. It is clear that the lack of a funding model has left openeuphoria without a lot of the things. Perhaps that is the consequence of an end-user focused language, rather than one that is setup for big companies. This is 2022, so nothing can surprise me now. So in that spirit, if someone would like to fund the activity of a New Archive site for Euphoria programs and libraries, you could rent a VPS server. struggle with Web/CGI or AJAX programming and get one up and running or fund me to create one.
Send me 10 mBTC to set it all up and another 1 mBTC monthly to keep it going. 1Jb7CHf8XuhagZ4xEaXWSTbvBdLuygWTno
19. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by achury Jul 31, 2022
- 1758 views
How big is the historic archive?
Why not simply to put it in the same openeuphoria site? We already have here user autentication and other usefull features.
Also, why not to put adds on openeuphoria? May help with expenses. (Although google says that not, I think that sites with google adds get higher page rank)
BTC transaction today is so expensive, has not sense for small donations. I can contribute with some stellar lumens (XLM). The transaction costs are very small (under 0.01 USD). Give me an stellar address.
20. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by SDPringle Jul 31, 2022
- 1746 views
Good question. How big is the archive? Stellar has enough acceptance that there is a hosting company that accepts it directly. I am asking for options now. I don't expect a reply until Monday.
21. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by petelomax Jul 31, 2022
- 1736 views
Ahem, sorry to butt in, but PCAN already exists... It doesn't exactly get very much use, any ideas as to why that is?
22. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by lesterb Aug 01, 2022
- 1735 views
In answer to the original question - "why do people use Euphoria".
I'm an officially retired software developer but I have a lot of contacts who know I "do software". Making software is really "playtime" for me - the result is that I'm never short of stuff to develop and I normally use Phix as a first approach.
By that, I mean I start with Phix to get something working quickly because I find it's easier and quicker to get things running than any of the other languages I might use. (For completeness, I also use C, Pascal, Basic and (infrequently) Ada and Python)
Often, the Phix version is the only version - the ease of making a standalone EXE for delivery is very appealing.
I've made some extras for Phix because of this approach. For example, I use IUP rather than PGUI because I can also use IUP in C, Pascal and Basic and this make translation easier. A long time ago I made a COM interface in Eu 3.1 and I've updated that for Phix so I can interface with (eg) Word and Excel. (the damned thing can even speak if necessary).
I'm having a lot of fun with Phix.
23. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by SDPringle Aug 01, 2022
- 1677 views
Here is my Stellar address: GA665ANIMQD47UVQLTVCFKZS6ZVNA2KFPCS3XS4B5IQSQTSKT747WYMU
24. Re: Why do People Use Euphoria?
- Posted by achury Aug 01, 2022
- 1683 views
The Stellar address is new? Don't have history https://stellar.expert/explorer/public/search?term=GA665ANIMQD47UVQLTVCFKZS6ZVNA2KFPCS3XS4B5IQSQTSKT747WYMU
First we must to check if possible to include the archive on the same hosting as openeuphoria. Be sure is cheaper to pay a better hosting plan than pay a new hosting. Also I insist. We already have user authentication here. Is nice if your user at forum and wiki is the same in the Archive.
I sent you a few lumens in order to activate the account. Please confirm.
