OpenEuphoria

1. Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by petelomax 2 months ago
• 1183 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72y2EC5fkcE

Where would you even start? One small point: "No multithreaded support so far", which is probably quite wise.

At least I'm not completely alone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2AW9PMSHTw - and I have to wholeheartedly agree with the comment made at 19:00

One thing I would put good money on is the gui side being oft-redrawn from some internal state, rather than reverse execution somehow "undrawing" things.

Another take on "time travel debugging" (no sound): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bbxR503-u0 and perhaps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJCYQzeL-w8 which give a subtle hint what all those logs are, and how wrong I was to completely ignore them in the first video, and is slightly strange in that the critical functionality seems to be half in the editor and half in the app being developed...

I think the first step (intellectually speaking) is to divorce the debugger from the runtime, make them two communicating processes. Then (again, more of a thought experiment than recommended reality) you could introduce a middleman that convinces the debugger to display any whacky stuff, independent of what has/will/did happen. Add in some queries of logs of what happened when, and you're getting there...

PS: I love my 19:00 link. (it would o/c be much slicker without all the adverts)

PPS: I guess this forum really is finally completely dead.

3. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by petelomax 2 months ago
• 1026 views

Read some of the comments from (best first)
https://lobste.rs/s/pmz2je/tomorrow_corporation_tech_demo
https://tomorrowcorporation.com/posts/how-we-make-games-at-tomorrow-corp-our-custom-tools-tech-demo
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/tomorrow-corporation-tech-demo-really-crazy-indie-game-engine-plus-dev-tools.63266/
https://www.summarize.tech/www.youtube.com/watch?v=72y2EC5fkcE
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ambrus-toth_tomorrow-corporation-tech-demo-activity-7190287163421319168-0uKS/
For more results see https://www.google.com/search?q=Tomorrow+Corporation+Tech+Demo

It is taking a while, but I am slowly piecing together how that black magic might be possible

5. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by petelomax 2 months ago
• 974 views

Indeed. Rather than "hot reload" or "step back", I think the key thing to focus on is "get back to where you were" from a(n auto) fresh start, with mid-session edit undo/redo being a bit of a frill.
Should a code/asset edit spanner the "get back" and force a full manual restart, I would consider that a minor peeve (relative to that very slick demo) as opposed to a deal breaker.
Likewise "from some earlier snapshot" would no doubt make it slicker/faster but "always/only from the very start" would still probably be perfectly good enough.

7. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by katsmeow 2 months ago
• 908 views

I was wondering again today how to post a code bounty here. But, i guess the way things are, $500 or $1k isn't worth the bother.

Kat

9. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by katsmeow 2 months ago
• 868 views

I wanna plug stuff into the computer, read it, think about it, and then write my decision back to it. Like, if a transponder i carry is outside, the computer can turn off all the lights inside? If the attic is 120 degrees, turn on a vent fan? If there's hail, cover the solar panels? If the rain water cistern is full, stop filling it? Freaking simple i/o done in the 1980's, but seemingly impossible on modern hardware and OE?

I paid someone to set up a raspi to read roof temperatures, but that is all it does. It cannot turn on a fan. It cannot read anything else. And it's a nix board, and as a 6 year old, i don't do nix. The stand-alone module like a raspi i agree with, given it's design with so many i/o pins, run control software on a 5w battery and not a 150w desktop computer, but as it is now, neither is useful in the real world.

The way i figure it now, if OE devs wanted OE to be useful in the real world, there'd already be i/o to hardware.

Kat

11. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by katsmeow 2 months ago
• 859 views

This is why i suggested writing a separate file of the results of a line running, or a block of code, you don't back up thru the code itself (altho that may be the most prominent thing displayed), you back up thru the saved state of the machine after or before a line. If you edit a line or a variable (or constant, etc), all that saved state file from that point onwards is deleted

Kat

13. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by jimcbrown (admin) 2 months ago
• 712 views

I guess you weren't able to get ahold of the Ultimate64 after all? https://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/138250.wc

Or perhaps you did, but there was some other limitation on the Ultimate64 itself that prevent the modern C64 from working well with today's requirements?

Well, OE does i/o to hardware, but to do it, you'd have to do nix.

Edit: Alas, for the other OS, well, we have these sage words:

Source: https://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/138181.wc

Well of course it could ... but you'd likely have to pay more to get this done. Or else learn nix to be able to do it yourself.

From ultimate64.com it looks like they will end their holiday at the end of this month and start accepting orders again in a few days, so maybe it's still not too late to get in on this.

15. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by petelomax 2 months ago
• 699 views

Care to elaborate? Cakez hints it is just separate <game logic> and <game data> processes, if you can restart the former without upsetting the latter, that's hot reloading.
Of course there are limitations: you cannot change the data being stored, or the interface between the two processes, and debugging falls apart if any steps needed to get
back to where you were change in any way that cannot be flawlessly mapped to updated line numbers, etc. (Assuming the debugger would be a third process that effectively
just replays all the [tweaked] keystrokes/mouseclicks of the current debugging session.)

Doubt it, sadly.

17. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by petelomax 2 months ago
• 659 views

Personally I think this is a truly awful cringeworthy mess of a video, but B4A Control The LED Using Basic4Android and Arduino might give you an idea or two.
(You should know within the first 20 seconds whether or not it is worth carrying on watching.)
While completely beyond me, I assume that replacing an LED with some kind of proper power relay switch would be something you know enough about.
(At this point I think it's fair to say that Euphoria/Phix almost certainly simply ain't gonna play any part in the solution you seek.)

19. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by jimcbrown (admin) 2 months ago
• 650 views

That comes as a bit of a surprise (the lawn mower I mean, since this is the first time you mentioned it).

I'm curious if it's specifically the lawn mower step that you saw it not working (which might be a good example of sneaking in a "move the goal posts" sort of thing), or did you see an issue with the earlier steps discussed too (like turning a fan on the roof, or stuff related to your car engine)? In the car engine case I'm curious as to why that wouldn't have been mentioned earlier in the other thread when it was first brought up.

If you have any good links, I would love to learn more about this. A few searches couldn't find anything useful...

Agreed. It's a shame that Euphoria/Phix must be tied to windoze for this particular user to be useful, since Linux in particular makes it really easy to directly access physical memory like so:

mem = open("/dev/mem", "rw") 
seek(mem, YOUR_DEVICE_ADDRESS_HERE) 
puts(mem, ...) 
x = get_bytes(mem, num) 

(Paired with passing "memmap=0x[start_addr]$0x[end_addr]" as a Linux Kernel Parameter on boot as a guard on other programs or processes from using it, naturally.)

Edit: In other words, no C glue is required. It's almost 100% Eu, with some nix bootloader config as the only non Eu part.

But of course, the right tool for the right job and all that.

Edit2: Alas, here's some highly knowledgble folks who point out that the related Windoze trick of direct memory access last worked in Windows 2000: https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/2008-April/165550.html

Edit2 Cont.: I didn't realize but nowadays Linux comes with a command line utility to directly edit physical memory!

sudo busybox devmem 0x12345678 # read 
sudo busybox devmem 0x12345678 w 0x9abcdef0 # write 

21. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by katsmeow 2 months ago
• 635 views

This is so mind-blowingly impressive.

The male-dominated thread is telling me windose is unable to gets(), getkey(), puts(), or call bat file to do similar i/o or whatever physical device that is not bolted to the mobo. And that i am not typing on a keybd with a serial link to the OS and OE is a figment of my imagination. Furthermore, since the keybd doesn't really exist in real life, i cannot use anything similar, of perhaps a different shape and speed, with relays or CdS cells or mosfets or crosspoint chips, to put the ascii bit pattern of "A" onto a serial usb cable into the computer for OE to gets() and then puts() to the screen, which in my imagination is on a different serial wire, so i can see and supposedly verify the magic happened, and in my wildest nitemares OE can make if-then-else or while() decisions on whether to show me the "A" or something else.

And why must i explicitly tell you what each use is that i put the bit pattern to? And how can you complain about OE/Phix's falling market share with a requirement like that? Are you going to explain to me the speed difference between a mechanical relay and an ecl chip? Did i ask you to do that? Is such in the AUP for windose or OE or Phix or any cussed thing? Why must you be told what device that relay or ram interface or light bulb is seen by?

Maybe i should put relay contacts across every numeric key on this magic keybd that is not using a serial link to the OS, and glue CdS cells to places on the monitor that isn't using a serial link to the graphics chip on the mobo under windose control, and i can read the light and dark under each cell as a bit! It worked in the 1940's, surely the computers have not advanced such that this cannot work? I think it will be stupidly slow, especially compared to writing to a file on a sata-3 hdd, but wth, it beats trying to CUSSWORDS you have made getting data about using windows now as impossible to get and use as the secrets of the 100 flavors linux.

Kat

23. Re: Mind blowingly impressive.

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) 2 months ago
• 376 views

Okay. We're putting an end to this right now.

I will not condone any language that targets anyone based on their age, appearance, body type, culture, disability, ethnicity, economic status, gender, identity, nationality, race, religion, or sexuality. Doing so is unnecessary and unacceptable.

We can attack ideas all day but we will not attack people. If you feel targeted or you do not feel safe conducting yourself on this forum then please, reach out to me directly and I will address it.

I will remind everyone that we all abide by a Code of Conduct here and and I will make every effort to uphold that code for all members equally.

Lately I find myself with little patience and zero tolerance for any form of in-fighting. There are not many of us left here and the last thing we need is to attack each other.

Consider this a warning, and again I am speaking to everyone here: we will all remain civil or we will all face consequences.

-Greg