1. Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by JoKeR Jul 28, 2010
- 2269 views
Specifically, the Quick Links on the right hand side. A lot of the links are pointing to the wrong things. I don't know who is maintaining this, but something is a bit off.
Also, the home page of the manual section is not quite right either. In Chrome it shows the Quick Links section on the right of the top of the page, but the links don't work. In Firefox the links work, but the Quick Links section is at the bottom of the page. Surely this is not being built on the assumption that IE is being used. I don't even want to test it.
2. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by _tom (admin) Jul 28, 2010
- 2278 views
Unfortunately the wiki has its problems at the moment. The sign-in procedure remains broken.
The most current documentation is in CHM help format, and is found at www.rapideuphoria.com
If you need a pdf, I can create one.
Sorry, things are still beta...
3. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by CoJaBo Jul 28, 2010
- 2177 views
I don't know who is maintaining this,
Nobody.
Theres loads of stuff broke. The wiki doesn't even work at all. Nobody fixed the meta redirects, so Google defines the entire OpenEuphoria project as "Until the issues are resolved permanently". The layout breaks at 1024x768. Theres 2 websites for Eu almost completely unrelated to eachother, one of which looks like its from the early nineties, probably because it is- the majority of the sites it links to haven't been online since then either. Theres loads more to rant about, but I wont waste my time..
Which language would YOU choose?
4. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Jul 28, 2010
- 2208 views
I don't know who is maintaining this,
Nobody.
Theres loads of stuff broke. The wiki doesn't even work at all. Nobody fixed the meta redirects, so Google defines the entire OpenEuphoria project as "Until the issues are resolved permanently". The layout breaks at 1024x768. Theres 2 websites for Eu almost completely unrelated to eachother, one of which looks like its from the early nineties, probably because it is- the majority of the sites it links to haven't been online since then either. Theres loads more to rant about, but I wont waste my time..
Which language would YOU choose?
I completely agree with this post.
5. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by ABC Aug 04, 2010
- 2118 views
I don't know who is maintaining this,
Nobody.
Theres loads of stuff broke. The wiki doesn't even work at all. Nobody fixed the meta redirects, so Google defines the entire OpenEuphoria project as "Until the issues are resolved permanently". The layout breaks at 1024x768. Theres 2 websites for Eu almost completely unrelated to eachother, one of which looks like its from the early nineties, probably because it is- the majority of the sites it links to haven't been online since then either. Theres loads more to rant about, but I wont waste my time..
Which language would YOU choose?
How important is this? Shouldn't the developers worry more about getting 4.0 out the door rather than obsess about the looks of a website?
Getting this stuff fixed would be a nice-to-have, but getting a release out is a must-have. This is a matter of priorities.
6. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 05, 2010
- 2015 views
Complaining about this site's webpages is useless. I even submitted code to fix some of the layout problems for different screen sizes, and was refused. And that was at least two years ago.
useless
7. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by CoJaBo Aug 05, 2010
- 2026 views
How important is this? Shouldn't the developers worry more about getting 4.0 out the door rather than obsess about the looks of a website?
Getting this stuff fixed would be a nice-to-have, but getting a release out is a must-have. This is a matter of priorities.
I'd say it should be a top priority-
Whats the use of a release if you have no community behind it? No community means no new users, testers, developers, or expansion of the language. If noone uses it... whats the point?
Imagine you are someone who is looking for a programming language, then look at that screenshot again. You aren't going to be programming in that OpenEuphoria thing, thats for sure.
Complaining about this site's webpages is useless.
Indeed. The people who know how to fix the problems are not permitted to access the site's code. Not very open-source-like at all.
8. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by ABC Aug 05, 2010
- 2003 views
How important is this? Shouldn't the developers worry more about getting 4.0 out the door rather than obsess about the looks of a website?
Getting this stuff fixed would be a nice-to-have, but getting a release out is a must-have. This is a matter of priorities.
I'd say it should be a top priority-
Whats the use of a release if you have no community behind it? No community means no new users, testers, developers, or expansion of the language. If noone uses it... whats the point?
Imagine you are someone who is looking for a programming language, then look at that screenshot again. You aren't going to be programming in that OpenEuphoria thing, thats for sure.
We have a forum and we have posters posting. Including quite a few beginners who are new to Euphoria, judging by some of the more recent posts here.
How many people do you know of who quit or chose not to use Euphoria because of a 301 REDIRECT message?
Unless you can name names and cite numbers, I'll consider this as nothing better than pure FUD.
Indeed. The people who know how to fix the problems are not permitted to access the site's code. Not very open-source-like at all.
I had no trouble checking out the code for the website. It was easy to access. You have no business contributing to open source if you are unable to figure out something as simple as Subversion.
9. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 05, 2010
- 2041 views
Indeed. The people who know how to fix the problems are not permitted to access the site's code. Not very open-source-like at all.
I had no trouble checking out the code for the website. It was easy to access. You have no business contributing to open source if you are unable to figure out something as simple as Subversion.
[/quote]
CoJaBo knows subversion.
GETTING the code is not the same as having submitted code ACCEPTED and put into USE.
Actually accessing the RUNNING code would allow it to be replaced by something that works better.
The responce for it looking bad on a 15 inch screen was basically "shut up and go buy a 24 inch screen".
useless
Edit:
for examples:
http://designerthinking.com/images/Euphoria/EUERROR2.JPG
http://designerthinking.com/images/Euphoria/EU-TOP1.GIF
http://designerthinking.com/images/Euphoria/NO_EDIT.GIF
http://designerthinking.com/images/Euphoria/MODERROR.GIF
I include the last one only because it took YEARS to get that fixed, at least i think it's fixed?
useless
10. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1990 views
How important is this? Shouldn't the developers worry more about getting 4.0 out the door rather than obsess about the looks of a website? ...
I'd say it should be a top priority ...
My opinion is that we need both as top priority. We need to have a usable product and we need to have a usable support for the product. One without the other is doomed.
11. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1982 views
How important is this? Shouldn't the developers worry more about getting 4.0 out the door rather than obsess about the looks of a website? ...
I'd say it should be a top priority ...
My opinion is that we need both as top priority. We need to have a usable product and we need to have a usable support for the product. One without the other is doomed.
I fully agree with this post.
I got euwiki up to date with the (at the time) latest version of Euphoria and creole parser a month ago, but I am still waiting to hear back on when this site will be updated with it.
Likewise, CoJaBo has found a few bugs in the forum software, we've committed fixes for them (though I haven't filed tickets for these), and I'm still waiting to see when these fixes will be updated on this site.
Then, of course, there was the amount of time it took to get the news that beta3 was released out... (actually, just the downloads page was fixed, no news item annoucing beta3 was ever released).
12. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by ABC Aug 05, 2010
- 2015 views
How important is this? Shouldn't the developers worry more about getting 4.0 out the door rather than obsess about the looks of a website? ...
I'd say it should be a top priority ...
My opinion is that we need both as top priority. We need to have a usable product and we need to have a usable support for the product. One without the other is doomed.
Looking at the posts on this forum, I do not see any support issues that have been unresolved.
If there is an actual problem with supporting users and the community, I'd agree, but I only see some rants about the way the website looks. Not ideal, but not hardly the death of the project.
13. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 2033 views
Looking at the posts on this forum, I do not see any support issues that have been unresolved.
If there is an actual problem with supporting users and the community, I'd agree, but I only see some rants about the way the website looks. Not ideal, but not hardly the death of the project.
There are at least 17 unresolved issues about the website in the ticket subsystem. The more serious of them include the one that no one can login to the wiki so updating the wiki is impossible right now.
I agree its a sort of chicken and egg situation. We need the language released before we can have a community of users and we need a community of users to keep the language alive.
So I put it to you, 'ABC', which part of the problem would you like to actively help us with. Can you help get Eu4 out the door quicker or can you help improve the website? Either would be good at this stage.
14. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 2061 views
The more serious of them include the one that no one can login to the wiki so updating the wiki is impossible right now.
Derek,
Can you create an account on the test wiki I set up at http://demonology.redirectme.net/wiki/euwiki.ex and verify that this bug has been fixed on there?
15. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by ABC Aug 05, 2010
- 2019 views
So I put it to you, 'ABC', which part of the problem would you like to actively help us with.
Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? I don't see a problem here.
16. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 05, 2010
- 1954 views
So I put it to you, 'ABC', which part of the problem would you like to actively help us with.
Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? I don't see a problem here.
LOL ! Too funny! LOL! Nice to see that one thrown back at the devs! Did you plan that? I am so sitting here still laughing!
I think Derek meant to address JoKeR, and his post a week ago that started this thread.
By the way, more than one '!' makes the post invisable, and creole after more than one '!' is also unprocessed. Someone add that to the list of forum bugs?
useless
17. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by CoJaBo Aug 05, 2010
- 1960 views
How many people do you know of who quit or chose not to use Euphoria because of a 301 REDIRECT message?
You misread my post- the issue is that there is no 301 redirect. If I had access to the site, I could implement one in like 1 min. If I had access to the domain controls, I could do one better and point the domain to the correct IP in the first place- but RobC owns it, and he is pretty much AWOL.
Due to this and other serious (but easily correctable) issues with the site's structure, it is unlikely someone looking for a programming language would even ever find Eu.
For evidence, refer to my first post in this thread:
Which language would YOU choose?
Do you pick the interpreted OOP language named after a popular pr0n site? The "easy-to-use" one with the clever name? The "extremely easy" BASIC derivitive? Or do you pick the one "with issues"?
18. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1962 views
So I put it to you, 'ABC', which part of the problem would you like to actively help us with.
Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? I don't see a problem here.
Well, both getting euphoria 4 into a state fit for release and working on the site are problems, at least in the sense that there's work to be done.
I think Derek was actually asking for help. And if he wasn't, then I am. :)
There's a steep learning curve to working on the language itself (interpreter, translator, etc), but there are a lot of things that are easier to jump in and help with:
- Unit tests. We've got a pretty substantial suite of unit tests, but they are still incomplete. Euphoria now has a way to indicate which parts of your code haven't been covered by any testing. We still have areas of the standard library that have no tests written against them. And the tests that do exist surely do not cover all edge and corner cases.
- Documentation. No one likes to do this, but there are a lot of routines in the standard library that are minimally documented (and there are no doubt lots of places that could use extra examples or simply be written more clearly).
- General use and testing. It needs to be banged on and tested.
- Web site / wiki. The main topic of this thread.
Matt
19. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by ne1uno Aug 05, 2010
- 1964 views
By the way, more than one '!' makes the post invisable, and creole after more than one '!' is also unprocessed. Someone add that to the list of forum bugs?
useless
double exclamation marks are single line creole comments. they may or may not be translated into html comments by the wiki, forum or docs, but they stay with the content.
20. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 05, 2010
- 1979 views
Since no one is doing any of the work you say needs doing, and i KNOW people have volunteered to do work, but been turned away, why don't you just put out a list of those you want to work with, and stop asking for more volunteers to turn away?
useless
21. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by ABC Aug 05, 2010
- 1954 views
How many people do you know of who quit or chose not to use Euphoria because of a 301 REDIRECT message?
You misread my post- the issue is that there is no 301 redirect. If I had access to the site, I could implement one in like 1 min. If I had access to the domain controls, I could do one better and point the domain to the correct IP in the first place- but RobC owns it, and he is pretty much AWOL.
Due to this and other serious (but easily correctable) issues with the site's structure, it is unlikely someone looking for a programming language would even ever find Eu.
And just how many have failed? Do you have names or numbers? This issue is a matter of looks, not substance.
22. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by ABC Aug 05, 2010
- 1943 views
So I put it to you, 'ABC', which part of the problem would you like to actively help us with.
Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? I don't see a problem here.
Well, both getting euphoria 4 into a state fit for release and working on the site are problems, at least in the sense that there's work to be done.
I think Derek was actually asking for help. And if he wasn't, then I am. :)
Matt
I see that I have misunderstood, and I apologize for my earlier outburst.
23. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 05, 2010
- 1956 views
How many people do you know of who quit or chose not to use Euphoria because of a 301 REDIRECT message?
You misread my post- the issue is that there is no 301 redirect. If I had access to the site, I could implement one in like 1 min. If I had access to the domain controls, I could do one better and point the domain to the correct IP in the first place- but RobC owns it, and he is pretty much AWOL.
Due to this and other serious (but easily correctable) issues with the site's structure, it is unlikely someone looking for a programming language would even ever find Eu.
And just how many have failed? Do you have names or numbers? This issue is a matter of looks, not substance.
Just thinking, i could repoint openeuphoria.com, but technically Derek would haveto ask me first. And no one uses the .com, they use the .org, so well, whatever.
useless
24. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by ABC Aug 05, 2010
- 2001 views
Since no one is doing any of the work you say needs doing, and i KNOW people have volunteered to do work, but been turned away, why don't you just put out a list of those you want to work with, and stop asking for more volunteers to turn away?
useless
After reading this, I no longer have the will or desire to contribute to this site.
I'll disappear for good and leave all of you to your forum now.
25. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 2008 views
The more serious of them include the one that no one can login to the wiki so updating the wiki is impossible right now.
Derek,
Can you create an account on the test wiki I set up at http://demonology.redirectme.net/wiki/euwiki.ex and verify that this bug has been fixed on there?
I have an account created now. It still needs administrator ratification before I can create or edit pages.
26. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1958 views
Since no one is doing any of the work you say needs doing, and i KNOW people have volunteered to do work, but been turned away, why don't you just put out a list of those you want to work with, and stop asking for more volunteers to turn away?
I'm not aware of volunteers simply being turned away, though some people (including yourself, of course) have come and gone for various reasons. Everyone here is a volunteer (with far too little free time, unfortunately). I don't have any sort of a list of people I refuse to work with. I will say that working on a team like the one that works on euphoria requires one to be able to defend his point of view and the ability to handle criticism.
Matt
27. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1928 views
So I put it to you, 'ABC', which part of the problem would you like to actively help us with.
Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? I don't see a problem here.
I'm sorry, maybe I have. I was under the impression that you wanted the language to be released before the issues with the website are addressed, and your 'problem' was that some saw that the website issues were more important.
So, I suggested to you that help achieve your desire to get the language out by actively becoming a part of doing that.
28. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1937 views
How many people do you know of who quit or chose not to use Euphoria because of a 301 REDIRECT message?
You misread my post- the issue is that there is no 301 redirect. If I had access to the site, I could implement one in like 1 min. If I had access to the domain controls, I could do one better and point the domain to the correct IP in the first place- but RobC owns it, and he is pretty much AWOL.
I'm a web-development neophyte and it never occurred to me that an automatic redirect would be possible at Rob's site. There are some people here who are able to update that site and so if you'd like to send me the HTML file needed to do that, please do so.
My address is owner @(at) derekparnell.id.au
29. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1970 views
Since no one is doing any of the work you say needs doing, and i KNOW people have volunteered to do work, but been turned away, why don't you just put out a list of those you want to work with, and stop asking for more volunteers to turn away?
Kate, your statements here are not based on true knowledge of what's been happening.
For example, I for one, am actively working on all but the last item in Matt's list.
You can send to me privately, but who has been turned away? My memory might be a bit flakey but I don't recall anyone being turned away.
30. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 2002 views
The more serious of them include the one that no one can login to the wiki so updating the wiki is impossible right now.
Derek,
Can you create an account on the test wiki I set up at http://demonology.redirectme.net/wiki/euwiki.ex and verify that this bug has been fixed on there?
I have an account created now. It still needs administrator ratification before I can create or edit pages.
I just tried to do this and discovered a new bug in euwiki! -_-
Your account has now been upgraded to admin.
31. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1939 views
Since no one is doing any of the work you say needs doing, and i KNOW people have volunteered to do work, but been turned away, why don't you just put out a list of those you want to work with, and stop asking for more volunteers to turn away?
useless
After reading this, I no longer have the will or desire to contribute to this site.
I'll disappear for good and leave all of you to your forum now.
Thanks for the FUD, Kate. 
32. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by euphoric (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1872 views
Since no one is doing any of the work you say needs doing, and i KNOW people have volunteered to do work, but been turned away, why don't you just put out a list of those you want to work with, and stop asking for more volunteers to turn away?
useless
After reading this, I no longer have the will or desire to contribute to this site.
I'll disappear for good and leave all of you to your forum now.
ABC, please don't get turned off by one person's comments. We're a friendly and cooperative group, mostly... :) We always appreciate new users, especially those who have skills to contribute to development. :)
33. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 05, 2010
- 1886 views
Since no one is doing any of the work you say needs doing, and i KNOW people have volunteered to do work, but been turned away, why don't you just put out a list of those you want to work with, and stop asking for more volunteers to turn away?
Kate, your statements here are not based on true knowledge of what's been happening.
For example, I for one, am actively working on all but the last item in Matt's list.
You can send to me privately, but who has been turned away? My memory might be a bit flakey but I don't recall anyone being turned away.
Just off the top of my head, me, CoJaBo, Ryan. I don't keep track of Eu comings and goings anymore.
useless
34. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1897 views
LOL ! Too funny! LOL! Nice to see that one thrown back at the devs! Did you plan that? I am so sitting here still laughing!
Sorry but I don't get what's so funny? And what has been "one thrown back at the devs"?
'ABC' seemed to be concern that things are not going well with the new release and I asked 'ABC' if they wanted to help.
I think Derek meant to address JoKeR, and his post a week ago that started this thread.
No, actually I didn't. I was talking to 'ABC'.
By the way, more than one '!' makes the post invisable, and creole after more than one '!' is also unprocessed. Someone add that to the list of forum bugs?
To show a double-! you need to escape the first one. For example, to show the line below ...
!! This is the mark up for a comment
You need to write
~!! This is the mark up for a comment
35. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1945 views
Just off the top of my head, me, CoJaBo, Ryan. I don't keep track of Eu comings and goings anymore.
I am not aware of this. Is this true 'CoJaBo'? And I thought Ryan wrote most of the wiki system, so I'm not sure how that would be deemed as "turned away".
36. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 05, 2010
- 1982 views
CoJaBo has written code in the past to fix security flaws in euwiki and the original forum.ex software (the stuff Jeremy wrote before he created webclay and euweb).
Just this week, CoJaBo worked with me to find new security flaws in euweb, which resulted in a couple of commits to euweb.
Just the other day, Jeremy Cowgar even went as far as to tell CoJaBo that he was welcome to contribute. (CoJaBo's response was to ask, "contribute to what?")
37. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 05, 2010
- 1935 views
CoJaBo has written code in the past to fix security flaws in euwiki and the original forum.ex software (the stuff Jeremy wrote before he created webclay and euweb).
Just this week, CoJaBo worked with me to find new security flaws in euweb, which resulted in a couple of commits to euweb.
Just the other day, Jeremy Cowgar even went as far as to tell CoJaBo that he was welcome to contribute. (CoJaBo's response was to ask, "contribute to what?")
<edit>
[21:47] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI reported said flaw over a year ago
[21:50] <CoJaBo-Aztec> it didn't get fixed then, I'm not convinced it'll get fixed this time either lol
[21:53] <any13504517> will you be saying that on the forum, to set the record straight?
[21:54] <CoJaBo-Aztec> nobody seems to care
[21:54] <any13504517> so say that too
[21:55] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:58] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI even said iI could fix the thing of iI had access.none seems to have responded to that
[21:59] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:59] <CoJaBo-Aztec> sure
</edit>
Like i said, i don't keep up with who is in favor, who comes and who goes, any more. At one time, we both had code to fix up the display issues with the forum, and both were turned away.
And i still feel i was pushed out of developing Eu. The "resigning" was merely me saying "ok, you won, i leave".
When Jeremy asked me to be on the dev list, and i saw there were people on it who historically had been overly critical of me, i warned him it would be a disaster. I should never have even tried.
Regarding any fud i may have produced: you're welcome. Same as when you kickbanned me from #euphoria and then blamed the bot and some one else. Yeas, long history, and it is neither getting shorter nor being addressed.
useless
"kat" with no 'e'
38. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 06, 2010
- 1896 views
<edit>
[21:47] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI reported said flaw over a year ago
[21:50] <CoJaBo-Aztec> it didn't get fixed then, I'm not convinced it'll get fixed this time either lol
[21:53] <any13504517> will you be saying that on the forum, to set the record straight?
[21:54] <CoJaBo-Aztec> nobody seems to care
[21:54] <any13504517> so say that too
[21:55] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:58] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI even said iI could fix the thing of iI had access.none seems to have responded to that
[21:59] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:59] <CoJaBo-Aztec> sure
</edit>
Due to the time difference between here and the US, I'm not sure when the above conversation took place. If 'CoJaBo' is talking about his post in this thread about creating a REDIRECT for the openEuphoria.org site, then I'm a bit puzzled because I did respond to that post.
Like i said, i don't keep up with who is in favor, who comes and who goes, any more. At one time, we both had code to fix up the display issues with the forum, and both were turned away.
Your insinuation that there is some sort of in favor / out of favor list is very disappointing. There is no such thing in the development team.
One cannot assume that because one's code is not implemented that it necessarily means that one has been personally rejected. Have you any evidence that the development team has said (in effect) "Your code is not going to be implemented because you are Kat" ?
I have not had all my ideas or code accepted by the team either. I'm not taking it personally. I've even been told to recode some stuff to conform with the standard coding style (even though my style is way better). I have not said "ok you win, so I leave".
And i still feel i was pushed out of developing Eu. The "resigning" was merely me saying "ok, you won, i leave".
You may feel that way, but that is not the reality.
When Jeremy asked me to be on the dev list, and i saw there were people on it who historically had been overly critical of me, i warned him it would be a disaster. I should never have even tried.
You might want to add me to your list of trouble-makers then, because I was the one who strongly argued for your inclusion on the team.
Regarding any fud i may have produced: you're welcome. Same as when you kickbanned me from #euphoria and then blamed the bot and some one else. Yeas, long history, and it is neither getting shorter nor being addressed.
WHAT!! I have never, ever, banned you from anything. As you well know, you are the person I am entrusting control with the openEuphoria.com name and I've never had any doubts or worries about doing that. And that time you were kicked from #euphoria, I believe it was accidental due to some bad bot code.
39. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by CoJaBo Aug 06, 2010
- 1907 views
If 'CoJaBo' is talking about his post in this thread about creating a REDIRECT for the openEuphoria.org site, then I'm a bit puzzled because I did respond to that post.
I can probably fix the issue, I've even offered to do so- but I cant do anything without access to the server. The dev team (or more likely, just RobC) simply does not seem willing to delegate that privilege.
Regarding any fud i may have produced: you're welcome. Same as when you kickbanned me from #euphoria and then blamed the bot and some one else. Yeas, long history, and it is neither getting shorter nor being addressed.
I'm pretty sure you've brought this up every chance possible, but its out of context-
I do not recall any instance where you were intentionally kicked or banned. However, iamlost is absolutely careless at applying bans, making them ridiculously broad then leaving them indefinitely- no offense meant here, but I've complained about this several times before and yet it keeps happening. Last time I checked, most of the UK and anyone affiliated with the Apache project was banned.
Assuming the website ever even gets fixed and people can actually find the IRC channel in the first place, they'll just find themselves banned for no reason.
40. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 06, 2010
- 1936 views
Regarding any fud i may have produced: you're welcome. Same as when you kickbanned me from #euphoria and then blamed the bot and some one else. Yeas, long history, and it is neither getting shorter nor being addressed.
WHAT!! I have never, ever, banned you from anything. As you well know, you are the person I am entrusting control with the openEuphoria.com name and I've never had any doubts or worries about doing that. And that time you were kicked from #euphoria, I believe it was accidental due to some bad bot code.
Iamlost/jimcbrown kickbanned me from the irc channel, it was he whose post i was replying to. It was not accidental, and it wasn't the bot that did it.
useless
Forked into: IRC Controversy
41. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 06, 2010
- 1910 views
I can probably fix the issue, I've even offered to do so- but I cant do anything without access to the server. The dev team (or more likely, just RobC) simply does not seem willing to delegate that privilege.
Currently the page has this ...
<META http-equiv="refresh" content="30;URL=http://oe.cowgar.com/">
Do we need to change this to cause an immediate redirect?
42. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 06, 2010
- 1943 views
I can probably fix the issue, I've even offered to do so- but I cant do anything without access to the server. The dev team (or more likely, just RobC) simply does not seem willing to delegate that privilege.
Currently the page has this ...
<META http-equiv="refresh" content="30;URL=http://oe.cowgar.com/">
Do we need to change this to cause an immediate redirect?
While awaiting CoJaBo's reply, since it's been a while, may i suggest you just change the 30 to zero? Since you cannot trust my word that my zero delay links work fine, i'll base that on http://sebastians-pamphlets.com/google-and-yahoo-treat-undelayed-meta-refresh-as-301-redirect/ .
I use this as a desktop link to all sorts of wierd things:
<html><head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Pragma" CONTENT="no-cache">
<META http-equiv="refresh" content="0;URL=http://oe.cowgar.com/forum/index.wc">
</head></html>
And put some more flattering and engaging text on the page (you know, "great programming language", "do you enjoy fistfights among devs?", "It's LISP in a BASIC way, without the ((parentheses))!" etc), and a few relavant meta data lines.
useless
43. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 06, 2010
- 1878 views
... may i suggest you just change the 30 to zero? ...
Ok, I just made a change to openEuphoria.org and the redirect is immediate now. Plus I changed the text being displayed to ...
The Open Euphoria web site is being transferred to a new host; http://oe.cowgar.com
44. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 06, 2010
- 1920 views
... may i suggest you just change the 30 to zero? ...
Ok, I just made a change to openEuphoria.org and the redirect is immediate now. Plus I changed the text being displayed to ...
The Open Euphoria web site is being transferred to a new host; http://oe.cowgar.com
I think i'd have transfered to
http://oe.cowgar.com/docs/eu400_0003.html#_2_introduction
so that google would display something exciting.
useless
45. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 06, 2010
- 1893 views
... may i suggest you just change the 30 to zero? ...
Ok, I just made a change to openEuphoria.org and the redirect is immediate now. Plus I changed the text being displayed to ...
The Open Euphoria web site is being transferred to a new host; http://oe.cowgar.com
I think i'd have transfered to
http://oe.cowgar.com/docs/eu400_0003.html#_2_introduction
so that google would display something exciting.
useless
I see your point but the main problem with that is that "eu400_0003.html" might change over time as the docs are auto generated. Also, going to the 'news' page is a reasonable entry point for both newcomers and existing users.
46. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 06, 2010
- 1894 views
... may i suggest you just change the 30 to zero? ...
Ok, I just made a change to openEuphoria.org and the redirect is immediate now. Plus I changed the text being displayed to ...
The Open Euphoria web site is being transferred to a new host; http://oe.cowgar.com
I think i'd have transfered to
http://oe.cowgar.com/docs/eu400_0003.html#_2_introduction
so that google would display something exciting.
useless
I see your point but the main problem with that is that "eu400_0003.html" might change over time as the docs are auto generated. Also, going to the 'news' page is a reasonable entry point for both newcomers and existing users.
The news page doesn't make me want to learn more about Euphoria. It tells me it's some sort of webpage management device.
If "eu400_0003.html" might change, and i agree it might, make a hardcopy on the intro page, so people know it's something, like, um, what it is. Damn, Derek, PLEASE!
useless
47. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 06, 2010
- 1906 views
Can ANYONE else chime in on making "eu400_0003.html" the first page newbies see about Eu v4, instead of the news page about Debian and WebClay? I am not putting down either Debian or WebClay, but neither one are the heart and soul of Euphoria.
Look, it's loaded with nice buzzwords all well connected (finally!), and it describes what the language is about and what it can do. It tells you why you should be using Eu v4. It is SO NOT the news page. It's not like any other page on the site. Tho if you find a better one, nominate it, maybe in a few years, we can get someone to put it front and center.
useless
48. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by DerekParnell (admin) Aug 06, 2010
- 1894 views
Can ANYONE else chime in on making "eu400_0003.html" the first page newbies see about Eu v4, instead of the news page about Debian and WebClay? I am not putting down either Debian or WebClay, but neither one are the heart and soul of Euphoria.
Look, it's loaded with nice buzzwords all well connected (finally!), and it describes what the language is about and what it can do. It tells you why you should be using Eu v4. It is SO NOT the news page. It's not like any other page on the site. Tho if you find a better one, nominate it, maybe in a few years, we can get someone to put it front and center.
useless
Ok, let's assume that everyone coming to the site is a newbie. I've changed the entry point to the one you suggested ... (sorry it took so damn long for me to do it, BTW. Not quite years but certainly minutes.)
We can always change it again if there is bad feedback.
49. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 06, 2010
- 1923 views
Can ANYONE else chime in on making "eu400_0003.html" the first page newbies see about Eu v4, instead of the news page about Debian and WebClay? I am not putting down either Debian or WebClay, but neither one are the heart and soul of Euphoria.
Look, it's loaded with nice buzzwords all well connected (finally!), and it describes what the language is about and what it can do. It tells you why you should be using Eu v4. It is SO NOT the news page. It's not like any other page on the site. Tho if you find a better one, nominate it, maybe in a few years, we can get someone to put it front and center.
useless
Ok, let's assume that everyone coming to the site is a newbie. I've changed the entry point to the one you suggested ... (sorry it took so damn long for me to do it, BTW. Not quite years but certainly minutes.)
We can always change it again if there is bad feedback.
/me clasps paws and bows.
Oops, openeuphoria.com needs changing too, to keep sync'd.
useless
50. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 06, 2010
- 1909 views
<edit>
[21:47] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI reported said flaw over a year ago
[21:50] <CoJaBo-Aztec> it didn't get fixed then, I'm not convinced it'll get fixed this time either lol
[21:53] <any13504517> will you be saying that on the forum, to set the record straight?
[21:54] <CoJaBo-Aztec> nobody seems to care
[21:54] <any13504517> so say that too
[21:55] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:58] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI even said iI could fix the thing of iI had access.none seems to have responded to that
[21:59] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:59] <CoJaBo-Aztec> sure
</edit>
Due to the time difference between here and the US, I'm not sure when the above conversation took place. If 'CoJaBo' is talking about his post in this thread about creating a REDIRECT for the openEuphoria.org site, then I'm a bit puzzled because I did respond to that post.
About the REDIRECT, CoJaBo has a habit of complaining about things on IRC but not taking them anywhere else (such as this forum or the dev list) where they'll get heard. So, anyone who is not on IRC (or is on IRC but does not have time to review the entire channel's conversations for the day every day) won't hear about it.
In that sense, his frustration at getting listened to is understandable. Still, I feel he could be a bit smarter about this. (On the other hand, I seem to recall that CoJaBo had filed a ticket on the domain name issue, but I'm not sure.)
If this is correct, then I share your confusion as when CoJaBo said this, you had already made the post asking for help and offering your email address. It's possible CoJaBo simply had not read your post yet, however.
Also, CoJaBo did claim that, for some of the euweb bugs I fixed, he had found and reported over a year ago. I don't recall this but it was probably CoJaBo talking to Jeremy over IRC in that case. It's possible Jeremy noted it but forgot and never got around to fixing it.
It's also possible that this bug was fixed, but that it was present in multiple places and only one spot was ever fixed. For example, CoJaBo told me about this bug:
http COLON SLASH SLASH oe.cowgar.com SLASH %3Cscript%3Ealert%28%27pwned%27%29%3C/script%3E/.wc
Which I fixed on the test forum. But the CoJaBo found the same bug again on the test forum:
http COLON SLASH SLASH demonology.redirectme.net SLASH search/results.wc?s="><script>alert('pwned')</script>&news=1&ticket=1&forum=1
Which I fixed again on the test forum, but in a different part of the code.
In this case, CoJaBo may be wondering when the fixes for this bug will be uploaded to oe.cowgar.com - or he may be wondering how many other parts of the code will need to be fixed before this bug is eradicated.
51. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 06, 2010
- 1870 views
<edit>
[21:47] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI reported said flaw over a year ago
[21:50] <CoJaBo-Aztec> it didn't get fixed then, I'm not convinced it'll get fixed this time either lol
[21:53] <any13504517> will you be saying that on the forum, to set the record straight?
[21:54] <CoJaBo-Aztec> nobody seems to care
[21:54] <any13504517> so say that too
[21:55] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:58] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI even said iI could fix the thing of iI had access.none seems to have responded to that
[21:59] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:59] <CoJaBo-Aztec> sure
</edit>
Due to the time difference between here and the US, I'm not sure when the above conversation took place.
[/quote]
The quote began last nite at 21:47, or ~8.5 hours ago at this point in time.
useless
52. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 06, 2010
- 1938 views
<edit>
[21:47] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI reported said flaw over a year ago
[21:50] <CoJaBo-Aztec> it didn't get fixed then, I'm not convinced it'll get fixed this time either lol
[21:53] <any13504517> will you be saying that on the forum, to set the record straight?
[21:54] <CoJaBo-Aztec> nobody seems to care
[21:54] <any13504517> so say that too
[21:55] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:58] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI even said iI could fix the thing of iI had access.none seems to have responded to that
[21:59] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:59] <CoJaBo-Aztec> sure
</edit>
Due to the time difference between here and the US, I'm not sure when the above conversation took place.
The quote began last nite at 21:47, or ~8.5 hours ago at this point in time.
useless [/quote]
As I write this, Derek's post offering help (here: http://oe.cowgar.com/forum/111917.wc#111917 ) was written about 14 hours ago and last edited about 10 hours ago.
53. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by useless Aug 06, 2010
- 1901 views
<edit>
[21:47] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI reported said flaw over a year ago
[21:50] <CoJaBo-Aztec> it didn't get fixed then, I'm not convinced it'll get fixed this time either lol
[21:53] <any13504517> will you be saying that on the forum, to set the record straight?
[21:54] <CoJaBo-Aztec> nobody seems to care
[21:54] <any13504517> so say that too
[21:55] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:58] <CoJaBo-Aztec> iI even said iI could fix the thing of iI had access.none seems to have responded to that
[21:59] <any13504517> can i post this conversation?
[21:59] <CoJaBo-Aztec> sure
</edit>
Due to the time difference between here and the US, I'm not sure when the above conversation took place.
The quote began last nite at 21:47, or ~8.5 hours ago at this point in time.
useless
As I write this, Derek's post offering help (here: http://oe.cowgar.com/forum/111917.wc#111917 ) was written about 14 hours ago and last edited about 10 hours ago.
[/quote]
Are you contesting something i said? I was merely supplying data about when that irc conversation took place, relavant to the time i answered.
useless
54. Re: Manual section of OpenEuphoria is wonky
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 06, 2010
- 1852 views
Are you contesting something i said? I was merely supplying data about when that irc conversation took place, relavant to the time i answered.
useless
No, I was just supplying additional data that might have been relevant.
