1. What's holding Euphoria back ?
It was suggested [ apologies to whoever as I don't have the original ]
that the name Euphoria is one of the problems, not sounding serious
enough.
There is one, and only one, way to give Euphoria credibility in the
current world of computer science, rename version 2.1 to ...
E++
<<hugely wide grin>>
2. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
"Bown, John" <John.Bown at UK.ORIGIN-IT.COM> wrote:
>It was suggested [ apologies to whoever as I don't have the original ]
>that the name Euphoria is one of the problems, not sounding serious
>enough.
>
>There is one, and only one, way to give Euphoria credibility in the
>current world of computer science, rename version 2.1 to ...
>
>E++
>
><<hugely wide grin>>
<Gasp>!
Actually, this is a really good idea. The anti-C crowd would have a fit, of
course, but it's concise and spiffy-looking. "E++" also implies that it's
more advanced than C++, which doesn't hurt, either.
I wouldn't object to this at all.
Gabriel Boehme
3. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
I think an 'E' programming language already exists...
"Boehme, Gabriel" wrote:
> "Bown, John" <John.Bown at UK.ORIGIN-IT.COM> wrote:
>
> >It was suggested [ apologies to whoever as I don't have the original ]
> >that the name Euphoria is one of the problems, not sounding serious
> >enough.
> >
> >There is one, and only one, way to give Euphoria credibility in the
> >current world of computer science, rename version 2.1 to ...
> >
> >E++
> >
> ><<hugely wide grin>>
>
> <Gasp>!
>
> Actually, this is a really good idea. The anti-C crowd would have a fit, of
> course, but it's concise and spiffy-looking. "E++" also implies that it's
> more advanced than C++, which doesn't hurt, either.
>
> I wouldn't object to this at all.
>
> Gabriel Boehme
4. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
I understand for E . and occasionally agree.
But why "++" ? does it mean classes,methods,...and structures ?
Oh, not again...
...maybe E** (it's not beautiful)
Seriously, how do you feel the name Euphoria? Here in france, we don't
matter with names, because
they almost *never* mean anything. fortran? pascal? C? algol? lisp? that are
just letters put together.
The difference is the reputation : some languages are *known* to be serious.
Euphoria is greek, like many scientific or technical stuff; the meaning
suggests it's fun (isn't it?); it
sounds more or less like Eudora, which is well-known.
If the name makes people laugh: it's the right name. Don't name it
Lachrimae.
----------
From: Bown, John
To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Date: Thursday 4 February 1999 19:13
It was suggested [ apologies to whoever as I don't have the original ]
that the name Euphoria is one of the problems, not sounding serious
enough.
There is one, and only one, way to give Euphoria credibility in the
current world of computer science, rename version 2.1 to ...
E++
<<hugely wide grin>>
5. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
>Seriously, how do you feel the name Euphoria? Here in france, we don't
>matter with names, because
>they almost *never* mean anything. fortran? pascal? C? algol? lisp? that are
>just letters put together.
Fortran = FORmula TRANslation
Pascal named after Blaire [Blaize?] Pascal
C = Crap ( Actually evolved from BCPL, to B, to C - AFAIR )
Algol = ALGOrithmic Language
Lisp = LISt Processing
Cobol =COmmon Business Oriented Language
Ada = Named after Linda's sister 
) Should have been called 18++ ??
)
I personally have no problem with the name "Euphoria", I suggested E++
as a bit of a joke, but it does seem to be what everyone else is doing
to hype their own languages ( Note Microsofts Java became J++ ! )
As Gabriel said, it would really upset the C++ crowd; as they say in the
UK, ther's nothing like extracting the urine
I agree that the RDS home page could do with a re-vamp. The Euphoria
name logo looks like a child of two [ apologies to children of two ]
made it.
My recommended steps for success ...
1) Confirm a name / make a logo ( Times New Roman chiseled on grey
marble block appeals to me )
2) Get the web site up to a good 'commercial appearance'
3) Point out it's free / only 500K download
4) Keep the 'sexy, fun etc' stuff, but on a 'personal users' page
5) Start plugging in Byte magazine, Computing, Dr Dobbs etc etc
6) Keep mentioning the Free word
7) Downplay the 'interpreted' nature ( easy as BIND produces .EXE
8) Plug the MS-DOS / Win32 compatibility lots
PS : I forgot to thank RDS for the efforts in getting the manuals into
HTML for v2., I tried it myself with v2.0 and it was a long, long, hard
slog. Until you've tried it you don't realise the effort involved - well
done to RDS.
6. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
John Bown Wrote:
>My recommended steps for success ...
>
>1) Confirm a name / make a logo ( Times New Roman chiseled on grey
>marble block appeals to me )
>2) Get the web site up to a good 'commercial appearance'
>3) Point out it's free / only 500K download
>4) Keep the 'sexy, fun etc' stuff, but on a 'personal users' page
>5) Start plugging in Byte magazine, Computing, Dr Dobbs etc etc
>6) Keep mentioning the Free word
>7) Downplay the 'interpreted' nature ( easy as BIND produces .EXE
>8) Plug the MS-DOS / Win32 compatibility lots
These sound like good ideas to me except the first one. The words
"chiseled" and "marble block" imply rigidity and inflexability to me.
This does not at all discribe Euphoria. "Grey" sounds boring and
monochromatic which again is unlike Euphoria. The conotations I get
from those statements may be very different from what others get but I
think that the visual and text of a website should reflect the products
qualities and traits. I kinda like the magenta colors of the web site
but I agree the graphics could stand some reworking. I think the
Euphoria logo should look like it tastes good, smells good, and even
feels good to touch. It should look pliable enough to be molded into any
shape or form which to me symbolizes what all programming languages are
about (the ability to create anything- and Euphoria has the consistency
that makes this very easy). It should also look solid enough that it
couldn't be ripped appart or mixed up ("Uehprioa") meaning that you must
follow the rules (more-so than even other languages) but without many
sharp edges implying that these rules are not painful to follow.
In short the Euphoria logo should be an artistic masterpiece full of
symbolic meaning and emotional stimulation.
Sorry if I've waxed too phylosofical on you all but This thread about
the graphical needs of the Euphoria web site seems MUCH more interesting
to me than the one on structures, arrays and the like.
However, I wonder if the person that stated that the Euphoria web site
contained "garrish colors" thought about the designer of said web site.
Also the person that compared the logo artist's work to that of a
two-year-old probably never considdered the FEELINGS of said logo
artist.
Sincerely,
Lewis Townsend
keroltarr at hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
7. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Try to make it a compiler and add the
ability to use libraries. (I mean its
own libraries).
Thanks!
8. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
>However, I wonder if the person that stated that the Euphoria web site
>contained "garrish colors" thought about the designer of said web site.
>Also the person that compared the logo artist's work to that of a
>two-year-old probably never considdered the FEELINGS of said logo
>artist.
>
>Sincerely,
>Lewis Townsend
>keroltarr at hotmail.com
>
I hold my hand up there; apologies to anyone who I offended.
9. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Greetings to all,
Although I'm about a week late with this response, I would like to add =
my opinion to the discussion of the 'outside appearance of Euphoria'.
There have been a lot of complaints about the name, the web site, the l=
ogo etc. as being not serious enough. Other people would giggle or grin=
if you said your program was written in Euphoria.
But, let me ask you, was it a good program? Was it easier to write it i=
n Euphoria than in another language? Why else did you write it in Eupho=
ria?
If it's a good program, that does what it has to do, with a good user i=
nterface, who cares in what language it was written?
I think that you yourself as a programmer are looking to be taken serio=
us, independant of the language you're writing in. If people aren't tak=
ing you serious, is that because of yourself, the programs you produce,=
or the programming language they are written in?
Is the name really an issue? There are quite some serious programmers, =
most of them scientists, writing programs in 'Python'. The language is =
named after a British comic TV program. Very comic indeed, but totally =
weird, and not to be taken serious in the way you define the word.
I think I understand the message Robert Craig is giving to the world: I=
f you want to have fun programming, if you want to be simple, safe and =
sexy, use Euphoria.
The language itself should be taken very serious, just because it is fu=
n programming it, especially if you come from another language that's n=
ot that funny.
And to programmers that are making fun of Euphoria I would say: Go ahea=
d, keep on programming in your not-so-funny but very serious languages,=
and let us have a laugh when you struggle with undetectable bugs, memo=
ry leaks and the like all through the night.
And if you really want a new name for Euphoria, what about 'Ease&Fun', =
or something the like?
Regards,
Ad Rienks
| Gratis e-mail en meer: http://www.dolfijn.nl/
| Een product van Ilse: http://www.ilse.nl/
10. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Boehme, Gabriel <gboehme at MUSICLAND.COM> wrote:
>"Bown, John" <John.Bown at UK.ORIGIN-IT.COM> wrote:
>
>>It was suggested [ apologies to whoever as I don't have the original ]
>>that the name Euphoria is one of the problems, not sounding serious
>>enough.
>>
>>There is one, and only one, way to give Euphoria credibility in the
>>current world of computer science, rename version 2.1 to ...
>>
>>E++
>>
>><<hugely wide grin>>
>
><Gasp>!
>
>Actually, this is a really good idea. The anti-C crowd would have a fit, of
>course, but it's concise and spiffy-looking. "E++" also implies that it's
>more advanced than C++, which doesn't hurt, either.
>
>I wouldn't object to this at all.
>
>Gabriel Boehme
With all respect Gabriel this is a BAD idea for several reasons...
1. There already is a language called "E" so that's a dead end before we
start. We could call it "E32++v2.1" but I think not ...
2. The term "C++" is used to denote object oriented capabilities vs plain
old "C". While true OOP would be cool in Euphoria it just isn't there now so
the name would be misleading and disappoint people looking for something
more advanced than C++.
3. The C++ crowd looking for something more advanced would take one look at
the syntax and run screaming in terror... it is way to simple for their
tastes.
4. Even if all the above were not true it would only be a matter of time
before "E++" was superceded by a language called "F++". In fact, When I
program I sometimes use a some similar languages such as "F+++!", "D+++!",
and "S+++!". When I really have a difficult project I break out the
super-language...
"*&@% $*(& $^%$*( F+++$~% *(&^ 87 @ * (#&^) !!!!"
<grin>
11. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Raude Riwal <rauder at THMULTI.COM> wrote:
>Here in france, we don't matter with names, because they almost *never*
mean anything. fortran? pascal? C? algol? lisp? that are just letters put
together.
Raude you should be ashamed of yourself... Not only do you not capitalize
France to show respect for your country's name, but you apparently know
nothing of your country's history either... Pascal is named after one of the
world's greatest mathemeticians, Blaise Pascal, a native son of France.
See http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Pascal.html
12. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Noah.. you sent this to my private email instead of the mail-list...
-----Original Message-----
From: noah smith <nhs6080 at unix.tamu.edu>
To: Quality <quality at ANNEX.COM>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 10:45 AM
Subject: re: Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
>I just downloaded euphoria 2.1, and a bunch of winlib32 resources,
including Cuny's winlib32. But every time i try to run an .exw, i get a
"can't find C:\windows\desktop\euphoria.exw".
>
>I do not have this file anywhere on my computer.
>
>thx.
>
>snortboy
>
>
13. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Quality <quality at ANNEX.COM> wrote:
>4. Even if all the above were not true it would only be a matter of time
>before "E++" was superceded by a language called "F++". In fact, When I
>program I sometimes use a some similar languages such as "F+++!", "D+++!",
>and "S+++!". When I really have a difficult project I break out the
>super-language...
>"*&@% $*(& $^%$*( F+++$~% *(&^ 87 @ * (#&^) !!!!"
>
><grin>
<ROTFLOL>!!!!!
Actually, the more I think about it -- and the more I read the alternative
name ideas -- the more "Euphoria" stands out as a unique and memorable name.
So I guess I'm going to reverse my position and say that the name "Euphoria"
is just fine and doesn't need to be changed at all. Sure, some programmers
may still laugh; but when *they're* using the languages listed above,
*we'll* be the ones who have the last laugh! :)
Euphoria Phorever :)
Gabriel Boehme
14. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Quality wrote:
>Raude Riwal <rauder at THMULTI.COM> wrote:
>>Here in france, we don't matter with names, because they almost *never*
>mean anything. fortran? pascal? C? algol? lisp? that are just letters put
>together.
>
>Raude you should be ashamed of yourself... Not only do you not capitalize
>France to show respect for your country's name, but you apparently know
>nothing of your country's history either... Pascal is named after one of the
>world's greatest mathemeticians, Blaise Pascal, a native son of France.
>
>See http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Pascal.html
Why did you not respond to Raude in his native tongue? I will not even hazard a
guess. And it may be a good idea to spell check your own piece when you
criticise somebody else's spelling. jiri
15. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Of course I knew that, what I wanted to say is that the name has few
significance
for the developper, and for his boss... Blaise Pascal was not only a
mathematician,
but also a philosoph (? is it english ?) and collaborated to the
"Encyclopedie" with
Diderot, Rousseau and many others. I thought it was not that interesting on
this list,
and apologize to have been so short...
-No shame for france, cause I'm a true proud breton ... but that's another
debate 
My first name is Riwal, we have the stupid habit to put the last first.
sorry.
Evit Breizh da viken
Riwal Raude
rauder at thmulti.com
----------
From: Quality
To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Date: Monday 15 February 1999 19:32
Raude Riwal <rauder at THMULTI.COM> wrote:
>Here in france, we don't matter with names, because they almost *never*
mean anything. fortran? pascal? C? algol? lisp? that are just letters put
together.
Raude you should be ashamed of yourself... Not only do you not capitalize
France to show respect for your country's name, but you apparently know
nothing of your country's history either... Pascal is named after one of the
world's greatest mathemeticians, Blaise Pascal, a native son of France.
See http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Pascal.html
16. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Jiri Babor <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ> wrote:
>Why did you not respond to Raude in his native tongue? I will not even
hazard a
>guess. And it may be a good idea to spell check your own piece when you
>criticise somebody else's spelling. jiri
1. Because I don't speak French (very well). 2. Because he posted in English
to begin with. 3. While you are correct that I did not spell check, I was
not criticizing his spelling but rather the lack of simple respect of
capitalizing his country's name (or any name for that matter).
I know that I publicly flamed Raude, and I would like to publicly apologize
for that. I am sorry for my outburst Raude, it was unprofessional.
I just am saddened by the lack of historic perspective that is no longer
taught in programming classes these days... A lot of Computer Science
graduates seem to have not even a basic understanding of how computer
languages have evolved and all the hard work that went into giving them the
power they now enjoy.
Q.
17. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Quality <quality at ANNEX.COM> wrote:
>I just am saddened by the lack of historic perspective that is no longer
>taught in programming classes these days... A lot of Computer Science
>graduates seem to have not even a basic understanding of how computer
>languages have evolved and all the hard work that went into giving them the
>power they now enjoy.
This has been a concern of mine as well. It seems to me -- at least in the
U.S., perhaps this is also true elsewhere -- that Computer Science (and much
of the educational system) is only concerned with teaching the "how to"s,
and not much, if any, of the hows and whys. Many of today's fast-paced
computer degrees reward those who can easily memorize all the contradictory
rules that have become part of a language (such as C), but doesn't reward
those who try to examine *why* it works the way it does, or how it came to
be that way. While you don't *need* to learn the history or the concepts
behind a language to program in it, the degree to which these things are
ignored is appalling. Since many CompSci students don't know or understand
the history of programming, they don't know *why* one language is better
than the other, or *how* languages have developed in the past and may
develop in the future. Many come to like a language simply Because That's
The Language Everybody Uses, So It Must Be The Best.
This lack of interest in the whys and hows is also, IMO, part of why
Euphoria's been having a hard time getting its due. For today's programmers
to understand what makes Euphoria so revolutionary, they would have to
understand how it changes the way they can program -- they would have to
know the whys and hows behind the way they currently program in other
languages to understand the fundamental changes they can make to their
approach in Euphoria. But because today's programmers are locked into
rule-memorization -- with little or no understanding of the concepts and
ideals at work -- they don't get it. They would simply look at the
superficial aspects of the language, and complain about the lack of a flashy
Windows interface, lack of their pet feature(s) from some other language,
etc. Not that these are irrelevant or unimportant -- indeed, *I'd* sure love
to see a flashy Windows interface for Euphoria -- but focusing exclusively
on superficial differences can cause them to overlook what's actually there.
Instead of learning and discovering what makes Euphoria Euphoria, they'd
simply put it down because it isn't Visual Basic, or because it isn't C, or
because it isn't Java.
And there's obviously no easy solution for this one. In many programmers'
minds, a language can't possibly be any good if it isn't supported by some
huge company. This may partially be a support thing -- nobody wants to write
important programs in a language that'll disappear from the face of the
earth the next week -- but it's also very much a lack of understanding. If
the programmers would look at Euphoria for what it *is*, rather what it
*isn't*, there would be more interest. But it's easier to code on autopilot,
with methodologies and rules fixed. Especially with today's detail-filled,
increasingly complex languages -- they've got their hands full just
*learning* the features of the languages they supposedly already know, so
why in the world would they bother learning an entirely different language
which actually forces them to change some of their methods and assumptions
about programming?
This is the frustration I feel when trying to introduce Euphoria to other
programmers. They just don't look at it closely enough to understand what
makes it so revolutionary. They're comfortable with what they already know,
and don't want to learn some useless, interpreted,
no-flashy-windows-interface language that's still primarily DOS-based. I can
try imploring them to look beyond the superficial, describe to them the
concept and power of sequences, the ecstacy of freedom from semicolons,
etc., etc. But paradigms don't budge easily -- like glaciers, they shift
VEEEERRRY slowly. And only when they have to.
The recent posts about getting Euphoria into programming classrooms is
definitely a step in the right direction. Show them the language while their
minds are still open enough to look at all the possibilities, while it can
still have a formative influence on the way they program, and on the way
they *think* about programming. I discovered Euphoria on the internet at
around the same time I was learning new programming languages at college,
and the fact that I was being exposed to many new languages definitely
helped me to learn Euphoria more quickly, as well as recognizing how unusual
and unique it was compared to all the other languages.
Anyway, I guess that's sort of my long frustration vent. Am I right on the
money? Or am I way off the mark?
Gabriel Boehme
18. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
>In many programmers'
>minds, a language can't possibly be any good if it isn't supported by some
>huge company. This may partially be a support thing -- nobody wants to write
>important programs in a language that'll disappear from the face of the
>earth the next week -- but it's also very much a lack of understanding. If
>the programmers would look at Euphoria for what it *is*, rather what it
>*isn't*, there would be more interest.
I chose to use Euphoria because of what it offered; overcoming the
64K/640K barrier with sequences has allowed me to port ( rewrite ) the
text editor which I had written in TurboBasic which had hit the memory
limit brick wall.
I had decided to live with this dead-end development because I didn't
want to, and couldn't be bothered to, learn C ( too much to do , too
little time ) to rewrite and then I stumbled on Euphoria by chance.
I only really jumped at Euphoria because it offered me a solution to my
problem at that time and this is the best reason for learning a
language; because you need to, which is still why I'm not that familiar
with C !
It was a 'surfing accident' that led me to Euphoria and a fluke that I
found it was a solution to what I wanted ( if ED.EX hadn't existed I
perhaps wouldn't have thought of using it to re-code the editor ).
I nearly missed Euphoria which would have been a shame ( still not
finished the editor yet ! ), how many others are also missing it ?
Getting it wider acclaim, especially in the classroom, is the first step
forward. It may be a slow process but the user base does appear to
widening.
19. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
>Getting it wider acclaim, especially in the classroom, is the first step
>forward. It may be a slow process but the user base does appear to
>widening.
The problem with the 'big' customers, is, I think, that it has no name. Say
company X has to write some code for eh.. say a
telephone company (y2k related, for example) .. then what would happen, if they
even choose to do so in Euphoria ? The 'client'
will say, 'no way' .. because no body knows Euphoria, and they would be tight up
to company X for future support, or eventually
need a rewrite in a completely new language.
Thats one of the bottle necks. So, people just knowing the name, is crucial.
Watch a few commercials, and you'll notice they
arent really saying anything, except that one word that they want you to
remember. They emphasize it, you only know the name of
the product, you almost never remember the contents of the rest of the
'message'. You could call it brainwashing, but thats
simply why Java did make it in a very short time.
But there's more. For new unknown language to survive there have to be a number
of problems, where they really set the current
crowd apart. So, that, financially the choice for Euphoria would be big.
Java was platform independent and completely OO. THere was no other way to
program completely platform independednt in such a
high level safe way. And OO was pretty much a hype. Other than that, they kept
it as much C as possible so the jump wouldnt be
big for C programmers. It was simply a really smart strategy, the choice for
language features, the name, the fact they
everybody knew the name, cuz netscape and MS had to explain why we needed to
download another 10 mb browser update for the
latest futures. Esspecially this association with browsers is how they got that
little attention they wanted.
Ralf
And no there's nothing constructive in this mail, only explenoraty. I hate
marketing, and will not give any advise on how to
brainwash, other than: don't.
20. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
You gave me a idea....If some one(i dont think me) could port the
netscape browser to E and then make a new pulg in type(just a E file
that can call and work with and in the browser) that could get alot of
people start in new ideas for web site design....I know i would ~love~
toy be able to use E in making FX for my web site...I could do things
better(in my mind) and faster then in java(im told it is slow). I could
be a tokenize version of E(program in normal E then convert and compress
it for faster downloading for surfing)...Would not realy be that hard to
tokenize E(or so i think)...Im not sure what the law is bout the use and
such of the souce for NS but it could be a great way to get people to
use a form of E. My mind is racing at what could be done....I dont get
me wrong...im not a MS basher but i do think some of what they do just
to make sure that some one uses there programs(mainly the stuff that
happend with the OGL and D3D stuff) that if only NS suported this form
of E and if it truly gave people something better, faster and easier to
use then ...what was i saying? i have no clue where i was going with
that...I'm just saying soem one should try this..I my self have no clue
but maybe someone on the list does?
Grape Vine
>>Getting it wider acclaim, especially in the classroom, is the first
step
>>forward. It may be a slow process but the user base does appear to
>>widening.
>
>
>The problem with the 'big' customers, is, I think, that it has no name.
Say company X has to write some code for eh.. say a
>telephone company (y2k related, for example) .. then what would happen,
if they even choose to do so in Euphoria ? The 'client'
>will say, 'no way' .. because no body knows Euphoria, and they would be
tight up to company X for future support, or eventually
>need a rewrite in a completely new language.
>
>Thats one of the bottle necks. So, people just knowing the name, is
crucial. Watch a few commercials, and you'll notice they
>arent really saying anything, except that one word that they want you
to remember. They emphasize it, you only know the name of
>the product, you almost never remember the contents of the rest of the
'message'. You could call it brainwashing, but thats
>simply why Java did make it in a very short time.
>
>But there's more. For new unknown language to survive there have to be
a number of problems, where they really set the current
>crowd apart. So, that, financially the choice for Euphoria would be
big.
>
>Java was platform independent and completely OO. THere was no other way
to program completely platform independednt in such a
>high level safe way. And OO was pretty much a hype. Other than that,
they kept it as much C as possible so the jump wouldnt be
>big for C programmers. It was simply a really smart strategy, the
choice for language features, the name, the fact they
>everybody knew the name, cuz netscape and MS had to explain why we
needed to download another 10 mb browser update for the
>latest futures. Esspecially this association with browsers is how they
got that little attention they wanted.
>
>Ralf
>
>And no there's nothing constructive in this mail, only explenoraty. I
hate marketing, and will not give any advise on how to
>brainwash, other than: don't.
>
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21. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
About the browser: that would be great. Let us call it Euzilla !
But about the plug-ins, you should not forget those who will access
your site with Apple or Linux. I'm not satisfied with java too, but
any platform has it... so we need X-Euphoria for linux, another
for Beos, one for Atari and another for Amiga (I would like a
small PC-XT version too for my HP200LX..
That's the price for A M$ Free World ...
Riwal Raude
rauder at thmulti.com
----------
From: Grape Vine
To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
Subject: Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
Date: Thursday 18 February 1999 20:50
You gave me a idea....If some one(i dont think me) could port the
netscape browser to E and then make a new pulg in type(just a E file
that can call and work with and in the browser) that could get alot of
people start in new ideas for web site design....I know i would ~love~
toy be able to use E in making FX for my web site...I could do things
better(in my mind) and faster then in java(im told it is slow). I could
be a tokenize version of E(program in normal E then convert and compress
it for faster downloading for surfing)...Would not realy be that hard to
tokenize E(or so i think)...Im not sure what the law is bout the use and
such of the souce for NS but it could be a great way to get people to
use a form of E. My mind is racing at what could be done....I dont get
me wrong...im not a MS basher but i do think some of what they do just
to make sure that some one uses there programs(mainly the stuff that
happend with the OGL and D3D stuff) that if only NS suported this form
of E and if it truly gave people something better, faster and easier to
use then ...what was i saying? i have no clue where i was going with
that...I'm just saying soem one should try this..I my self have no clue
but maybe someone on the list does?
Grape Vine
22. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
>
>You gave me a idea....If some one(i dont think me) could port the
>netscape browser to E and then make a new pulg in type(just a E file
>that can call and work with and in the browser)
I'd thought about the role of Euphora as a replacement for Java; it
would certainly be a lot easier to use, however, the problem of take-up
would occur; I haven't even got ShockWave installed and a lot of people
might be a little unhappy about having to load the Euphoria Engine just
to view a web page ( "Why can't they use Java, like everyone else ?" ).
That said, Euphoria would undoubtedly run a lot quicker than Java I'm
sure.
Rather than rewrite NS ( and then port it to all platforms Linux, Mac
etc ); why not concentrate on Plug-Ins for browsers ? I know it can be
done with IE at least.
I would seriously suggest not implementing a browser as the danger is
that MS will come up with some new fangled concept which you than have
to implement, which may be hard, Hmm, I wonder why MS do this ?
DHTML is now a standard AFAIR but does anyone really think that will
stop MS creating its own variants ?
23. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
I agree...Thats why i said to tokenize it...so a apple can recive the
same file as my Intel machine and it calls the correct code for that
machine....The way java works...I do think that NS has been ported to a
apple..not sure but if so then some one who knows apple programing( i
have never used a apple for programming)..As for the X-Euphoria... Pick
a differnt name...I have used linix and i dislike all that X stuff...
But if thats the name that 'sells'(gets ppl to use it..i dont know if
this would be some thing you want to make money on or not.. you want
~everyone~ to use it)
PS
im not done thinking what i was saying...i lost my train of though in a
huge derailment...all i can think now is 'kill barney'..
Grape..
>About the browser: that would be great. Let us call it Euzilla !
>But about the plug-ins, you should not forget those who will access
>your site with Apple or Linux. I'm not satisfied with java too, but
>any platform has it... so we need X-Euphoria for linux, another
>for Beos, one for Atari and another for Amiga (I would like a
>small PC-XT version too for my HP200LX..
>That's the price for A M$ Free World ...
>
>Riwal Raude
>rauder at thmulti.com
>
> ----------
>From: Grape Vine
>To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
>Subject: Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
>Date: Thursday 18 February 1999 20:50
>
>You gave me a idea....If some one(i dont think me) could port the
>netscape browser to E and then make a new pulg in type(just a E file
>that can call and work with and in the browser) that could get alot of
>people start in new ideas for web site design....I know i would ~love~
>toy be able to use E in making FX for my web site...I could do things
>better(in my mind) and faster then in java(im told it is slow). I could
>be a tokenize version of E(program in normal E then convert and
compress
>it for faster downloading for surfing)...Would not realy be that hard
to
>tokenize E(or so i think)...Im not sure what the law is bout the use
and
>such of the souce for NS but it could be a great way to get people to
>use a form of E. My mind is racing at what could be done....I dont get
>me wrong...im not a MS basher but i do think some of what they do just
>to make sure that some one uses there programs(mainly the stuff that
>happend with the OGL and D3D stuff) that if only NS suported this form
>of E and if it truly gave people something better, faster and easier to
>use then ...what was i saying? i have no clue where i was going with
>that...I'm just saying soem one should try this..I my self have no clue
>but maybe someone on the list does?
>
>Grape Vine
>
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24. Re: What's holding Euphoria back ?
First..If you use our version of NS then the E is load right along with
java...People would not even know(cept of corse b\y the outstanding
quality of the page) that ppl were using E...the only people that would
know is the one who dont have it...eg anyone using any MS
browser...=)...or a none E enabled one....I dont care what MS says is
the newest thing to suport...Im not here to serve them...Ther are alot
of pages out there that are MS only...And they did that so people ~had~
to use there browser ...Yes i agree a plug in would be easier..i have no
clue how to do this as i have never tried ... Ill look into it some
time...
Grape
>>You gave me a idea....If some one(i dont think me) could port the
>>netscape browser to E and then make a new pulg in type(just a E file
>>that can call and work with and in the browser)
>
>I'd thought about the role of Euphora as a replacement for Java; it
>would certainly be a lot easier to use, however, the problem of take-up
>would occur; I haven't even got ShockWave installed and a lot of people
>might be a little unhappy about having to load the Euphoria Engine just
>to view a web page ( "Why can't they use Java, like everyone else ?" ).
>
>That said, Euphoria would undoubtedly run a lot quicker than Java I'm
>sure.
>
>Rather than rewrite NS ( and then port it to all platforms Linux, Mac
>etc ); why not concentrate on Plug-Ins for browsers ? I know it can be
>done with IE at least.
>
>I would seriously suggest not implementing a browser as the danger is
>that MS will come up with some new fangled concept which you than have
>to implement, which may be hard, Hmm, I wonder why MS do this ?
>DHTML is now a standard AFAIR but does anyone really think that will
>stop MS creating its own variants ?
>
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