1. OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by ghaberek (admin) Jul 06, 2019
- 3193 views
Before I get too far down the rabbit hole with rebuilding the website, I wanted to get some feedback on the overall design and layout I've sketched out so far.
This is just a basic mockup, most features are missing. Please check it out and let me know what you think. Be honest! We might have to live with this for another ten years!
-Greg
2. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by ChrisB (moderator) Jul 07, 2019
- 3118 views
Hi,
Like it, nice'n'clean. Missing something though - perhaps a bit more mongoose?
Chris
3. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by irv Jul 07, 2019
- 3074 views
If we agree that one of the purposes of the website is to attract "new" programmers - that is, people just starting to learn some language, then we need to be sure that the website is appealing to those folks.
It's likely that they would tend to be younger - school, college, or recent graduates.
One of the things that is easy to see if you spend much time on the web is that people in this age group (this is a generalization, don't anyone get upset) often have mild receptive aphasia. (They aren't good with words.)
Faced with a page of text with no images, they'll probably click elsewhere.
I suggest adding a scrolling sidebar on the main page with screenshots, at the very least. And colors. Pretty colors 
4. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by ChrisB (moderator) Jul 07, 2019
- 3077 views
Just what I said!
Chris
5. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by Icy_Viking Jul 07, 2019
- 3094 views
If we agree that one of the purposes of the website is to attract "new" programmers - that is, people just starting to learn some language, then we need to be sure that the website is appealing to those folks.
It's likely that they would tend to be younger - school, college, or recent graduates.
One of the things that is easy to see if you spend much time on the web is that people in this age group (this is a generalization, don't anyone get upset) often have mild receptive aphasia. (They aren't good with words.)
Faced with a page of text with no images, they'll probably click elsewhere.
I suggest adding a scrolling sidebar on the main page with screenshots, at the very least. And colors. Pretty colors
I agree with this. When I found out about Euphoria in my teens, the bright colorful rainbow like logo attracted me to it. Having a rainbow-like colored mongoose might not look the best, and I'm not suggesting that. However, I think adding some screenshots as irv said would be a good idea.
6. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by ghaberek (admin) Jul 07, 2019
- 3077 views
So to paraphrase the Lotus Philosphy: Simplify, then add lightness screenshots.
-Greg
7. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by ghaberek (admin) Jul 08, 2019
- 3036 views
Here's a quick mock up of the main page with a carousel and a few blurbs.
Here's what I have for the "blurbs" so far:
- Simple - Euphoria uses a simple but powerful syntax that is easy to learn and read.
- Flexible - Euphoria can be used for nearly any purpose: console, desktop, web, and more!
- Fast - Euphoria's interpeter is significantly faster than most other interpreted languages.
- Generic - Euphoria has only two data types: atom for numbers and sequence for arrays.
- Dynamic - Euphoria's sequence type is a highly dynamic all-purpose object array.
- Cross-platform - Euphoria runs on Windows, Linux, or OS X and x86, x64, and ARM processors.
Any suggestions for what I should put as the background images, or any more blurbs?
-Greg
8. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by _tom (admin) Jul 09, 2019
- 2924 views
Nice work Greg.
- How are the graphics going to work? Where will the images be stored? Will svg and png be available?
- The home page probably will work with just these links: [home] [forum] [learn] [download]
- home is for short intro and news
- forum can handle forum, login, tickets
- learn can handle wiki, documentation, and archive examples
- download for oE, Phix, and legacy Eu (emphasis on oE, link to Phix)
- not sure sample code helps that much
- maybe some sequence prowess would work?
- the "catch phrase" could be: simple -- sharp -- speedy
- simple and sequences are the main strength
- sharp means interpret, compile, sane error messages, debugging, multi-platform, multi-arch, ..., programmer friendly features
- speed is our legacy
- more detail is not needed
- no need to have user search for extra ideas at the first glance
- must promote both oE and Phix (both logos)
- must promote euGTK (screen grab)
_tom
9. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by irv Jul 09, 2019
- 2961 views
It may be a good idea to emphasize the things that Euphoria does that others don't do so easily - such as sequence operations. Something simple like the code below could be "illustrated" by converting it into an animated gif. Step thru the code, highlighting each line in turn, and when there's a ?, display the output in some way (zoom in, pop up a balloon, or something).
sequence s = {1,2,3,4,5} ? s s = power(s,2) ? s ? sqrt(s)
I will try to mock up a EuGTK sample.
10. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by _tom (admin) Jul 12, 2019
- 2776 views
I see "OpenEuphoria" as a portal to the oE and Phix languages (and even legacy Eu).
Thus, OpenEuphoria becomes more than just the OpenEuphoria language but a powerful programming paradigm that is stronger because you can use both oE and Phix for programming. Everyone else has just one measly language.
_tom
11. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by _tom (admin) Jul 12, 2019
- 2792 views
Introduction
OpenEuphoria is your portal to better programming. Choose from the oE and Phix langauges, or even the legacy Eu language.
Simpler--Sharper--Speedier...is the way to program.
Simpler...two fundamental data-types makes a language simpler than any other language; keep what you learn means syntax without surprises, ... simplify and add lightness.
Sharper...fast interpreting and fast compiling, open and free, easy syntax, generic and flexible sequence operation, debugging, gui, libraries, garbage-collection, safety, multi-tasking, multi-threading, ... programmer friendly.
Speedier...interpret much faster than any popular commonly available programming language. Then, compile to get even better performance and easy program distribution, ... performance.
The way to program is oE|Phix.
Dismiss the Competition.
Compare oE|Phix to any other programming language! Eliminate any language that does not offer:
- a faster interpreter
- program compilation
- two data-types--atom sequence--for general programming (yet with more when you need them)
- one data-type--object--for any value
- generic sequence operations
- syntax without surprises and gotchas
- simple and easy to learn
The way to program is oE|Phix.
What possible rebuttal can anyone offer?
Is there any language that comes close to oE|Phix?
_tom
12. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by _tom (admin) Jul 12, 2019
- 2780 views
Here's a quick mock up of the main page with a carousel and a few blurbs.
...
A conventional language is one that lacks the advantages found in oE or Phix.
oE|Phix are:
| simple | easier to learn, read, and write |
| small | atoms and sequence do it all |
| generic | operators and functions can work on all values |
| clean | freeform syntax is uniform and predictable |
| flexible | you can both interpret and compile source-code |
| dynamic | mix data-types, mix small and huge, no performance penalty |
| fast | quicker than interpreters for any common popular language |
| faster | source-code can be compiled for performance and distribution |
| safe | garbage collected, no pointers, index values are checked |
| versatile | run on different operating systems and architectures |
| quantified | benchmark speed, count features, ignore surprises and gotchas |
| fellowship | oE, Phix, and legacy Eu |
| mongoose | we have a nice mascot |
If you value all of these features then there is only oE or Phix.
A bit much for a home page, but maybe we can use these ideas somewhere.
Reminds me of the Texas brag, which is outdone by the Alaska brag where everything is bigger.
_tom
13. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by lgregg Jul 13, 2019
- 2733 views
Here's a quick mock up of the main page with a carousel and a few blurbs.
...
A conventional language is one that lacks the advantages found in oE or Phix.
oE|Phix are:
| simple | easier to learn, read, and write |
| small | atoms and sequence do it all |
| generic | operators and functions can work on all values |
| clean | freeform syntax is uniform and predictable |
| flexible | you can both interpret and compile source-code |
| dynamic | mix data-types, mix small and huge, no performance penalty |
| fast | quicker than interpreters for any common popular language |
| faster | source-code can be compiled for performance and distribution |
| safe | garbage collected, no pointers, index values are checked |
| versatile | run on different operating systems and architectures |
| quantified | benchmark speed, count features, ignore surprises and gotchas |
| fellowship | oE, Phix, and legacy Eu |
| mongoose | we have a nice mascot |
If you value all of these features then there is only oE or Phix.
A bit much for a home page, but maybe we can use these ideas somewhere.
Reminds me of the Texas brag, which is outdone by the Alaska brag where everything is bigger.
_tom
14. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by lgregg Jul 13, 2019
- 2726 views
Here's a quick mock up of the main page with a carousel and a few blurbs.
...
A conventional language is one that lacks the advantages found in oE or Phix.
oE|Phix are:
| simple | easier to learn, read, and write |
| small | atoms and sequence do it all |
| generic | operators and functions can work on all values |
| clean | freeform syntax is uniform and predictable |
| flexible | you can both interpret and compile source-code |
| dynamic | mix data-types, mix small and huge, no performance penalty |
| fast | quicker than interpreters for any common popular language |
| faster | source-code can be compiled for performance and distribution |
| safe | garbage collected, no pointers, index values are checked |
| versatile | run on different operating systems and architectures |
| quantified | benchmark speed, count features, ignore surprises and gotchas |
| fellowship | oE, Phix, and legacy Eu |
| mongoose | we have a nice mascot |
If you value all of these features then there is only oE or Phix.
A bit much for a home page, but maybe we can use these ideas somewhere.
Reminds me of the Texas brag, which is outdone by the Alaska brag where everything is bigger.
_tom
The dynamic item is unclear to me. I think the safe item might emphasize the human friendly nature of indexes starting at 1, not 0.
Larry
15. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by kinz Jul 14, 2019
- 2724 views
Like it, nice'n'clean. Missing something though - perhaps a bit more mongoose?
Read please a bit more about mongoose:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubera
In India, it is a sacred animal, so
RD1 IT Institute uses another logo for EU:
http://rd1itinstitute.com/euphoria/
Regards
kinz
16. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by _tom (admin) Jul 15, 2019
- 2550 views
Simplify and add Lightness is the way to create a programming language. A unique design using atom (any single value) and sequence (any list of values) data-types was how it was done. A fellowship of languages was the result: oE and Phix, along with legacy Eu.
Simple... flawless syntax
- one-based-indexing
- freeform
- generic, flexible, and dynamic atom|sequence data-types
- easy to learn and use
Sharp... complete development
- interpret
- compile
- debug and profile
- safe and garbage collected
- multi-platform; multi-architecture
Speedy... enviable performance
- interpret faster than any common interpreter
- compile for even more speed
If you want all three--simple|sharp|speedy--then there is only oE and Phix.
_tom
17. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by _tom (admin) Jul 16, 2019
- 2470 views
For your First Language
Why start with a hard to learn, slow, conventional language? They may be "popular" but they are not good for you.
Simplify and add Lightness make learning and using oE and Phix much easier.
The fundamental concepts found in oE and Phix apply to all programming--none of your learning effort will be wasted.
Sorry, programming with atoms and sequences will spoil you.
If You Know a Language Already
If you know some programming ideas like "value", "variable", "if statement", "for loop", "print", "operator", "function", ... , then you are ready to program in oE or Phix.
Simplify and add Lightness delivered because atom (any single value) and sequence (any list of values) make learning and using oE and Phix much easier. Operators and functions are generic to numbers, text, and mixed data. Learn to work with one kind of data and you ready to work with any kinds of data.
Syntax is uniform and predictable--no surprises.
Development is a pleasure--debug, trace, profile your programs; interpret code for rapid development; compile code for performance and easy distribution.
Performance is enviable--oE and Phix interpreters are faster than those in common languages.
We have been modest up till now. Time to let the world know the truth. _tom
18. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by Senator Jul 17, 2019
- 2499 views
Should Shian's fork from 32 bit euphoria 3.1 be referenced in the new OpenEuphoria.org materials?
He has a website: Rapid Euphoria 3.1.1
A archive of 3.1 files: Euphoria 3.1.1 Archive
And A forum: Euphoria 3.1.1 Forum
Regards,
19. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by ghaberek (admin) Jul 17, 2019
- 2424 views
Should Shian's fork from 32 bit euphoria 3.1 be referenced in the new OpenEuphoria.org materials?
I don't see why we should continue to promote previous versions of the language. I don't even understand the appeal in still using the 3.x line, aside from DOS development.
-Greg
20. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by _tom (admin) Jul 17, 2019
- 2404 views
Should Shian's fork from 32 bit euphoria 3.1 be referenced in the new OpenEuphoria.org materials?
I don't see why we should continue to promote previous versions of the language. I don't even understand the appeal in still using the 3.x line, aside from DOS development.
-Greg
Because legacy Eu is -- still -- more fun than the currently available conventional languages.
Eu is a gateway to oE and Phix.
Make it clear this is a museum of the old Eu--but old stuff is still worth knowing about.
He has an interactive Eu interpreter working online.
Its part of the fellowship oE, Phix, (and legacy Eu).
_tom
21. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by _tom (admin) Jul 17, 2019
- 2427 views
| oE and Phix | Conventional Languages | |
|---|---|---|
|
|
||
| Simple Flawless | is better than...   |
* many data-types * off-by-one indexing * strange punctuation * imposing rules * aliasing * overloading * un-generic methods * mutable/immutable conflicts |
|
|
|
|
| Sharp Development | is better than ...   |
* only interpreter or only compiler * messy program distribution * confusing error messages |
|
|
|
|
| Speedy Performance | is better than ...   |
* slow startup * sluggish execution |
|
|
|
_tom
22. Re: OpenEuphoria.org, early preliminary redesign
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Aug 27, 2019
- 1366 views
Should Shian's fork from 32 bit euphoria 3.1 be referenced in the new OpenEuphoria.org materials?
I don't see why we should continue to promote previous versions of the language.
Normally, I'd be fine with having multiple languages as part of the Euphoria family (see for example OpenEuphoria and Phix). However, the forum has exactly three registered users, at least two of whom are Shian. Shian admits on the forum to not being a C programmer in a post there ( /forum/viewtopic.php?id=7 ). I don't see a repository or anything, so I doubt that he's maintaining a true fork.
In other words, it's not worth referencing because there's not yet really anything there.
Also, that site mentions 4x but goes to great lengths to avoid referencing this site (it references the defunct SF.net site even when mentioning the downloads).
I don't even understand the appeal in still using the 3.x line, aside from DOS development.
-Greg
Actually, even that is puzzling. I recall asking one of the DOS support groups about this, but their conclusion was that they'd just get the Windoze version of the console version of OE working on DOS with some kind of emulator.
