1. the fate of a euphorian
It just struck me that I haven't heard/seen anything from the following ppl
in a (very) long time:
Ralf N, Jacques D, Lucius H, Mark Honnor, Michael Bolin & some others..
So my question is, what happened to these guys? Did all die in a plane-crash
or what? Or did they just decide to give up on euphoria all the sudden?
I know many euphorians (like myself) are students and, as in the case of
Pete Eberlein, find themselfs being too busy to do any hobby-coding after
graduating and hopefully getting a job. But I recall some of the above
mentioned being "middle-aged" men, wich makes me even more curious..
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2. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Hello mic,
>It just struck me that I haven't heard/seen anything from the following ppl
>in a (very) long time:
>Ralf N, Jacques D, Lucius H, Mark Honnor, Michael Bolin & some others..
Actually I remember hearing from LLH3 not too long ago.
>So my question is, what happened to these guys? Did all die in a
>plane-crash
>or what?
I suspect they just haven't felt like responding to
anything recently. Also, if you are wondering, I haven't
had time to try out Jarod on my home computer yet, I DO
still plan on it tho.
later,
Lewis Townsend
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3. Re: the fate of a euphorian
- Posted by Greg Harris <blackdog at CDC.NET>
Oct 10, 2000
-
Last edited Oct 11, 2000
Mic,
I'm going to chime in the others category..
Oh.. some of us are still here lurking..
I'm still programming professionally (VB, VBScript, MSAccess) for an
insurance company..
Euphoria is still a great language though.. just not enough hours in the day
around here..
I honestly don't know how David Cuny manages to find time to crank out the
code like he does.
<WishList>
Still wish it had native support for structures, ODBC and ActiveX (for batch
scripting).
</WishList>
Mr. Hilley is fine.. I talked with him yesterday.. his computer is on the
fritz again and he still occasionally scans the list via the web.
Neither one of us are middle-aged men.. (yet!)
Regards,
Greg Harris (Blackdog)
H. H. Software
----- Original Message -----
From: "mic _" <stabmaster_ at HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 7:50 AM
Subject: the fate of a euphorian
> It just struck me that I haven't heard/seen anything from the following
ppl
> in a (very) long time:
>
> Ralf N, Jacques D, Lucius H, Mark Honnor, Michael Bolin & some others..
>
> So my question is, what happened to these guys? Did all die in a
plane-crash
> or what? Or did they just decide to give up on euphoria all the sudden?
> I know many euphorians (like myself) are students and, as in the case of
> Pete Eberlein, find themselfs being too busy to do any hobby-coding after
> graduating and hopefully getting a job. But I recall some of the above
> mentioned being "middle-aged" men, wich makes me even more curious..
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
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>
4. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On 10 Oct 2000, at 20:37, Greg Harris wrote:
> <WishList>
> Still wish it had native support for structures, ODBC and ActiveX (for batch
> scripting).
> </WishList>
Ewwwww,, with all the possible security problems around ActiveX i have it shut
off in
the browser, in the email, and run a proxy to filter it out of the text so the
browser
doesn't see it.
Kat
5. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Mic wrote:
>It just struck me that I haven't heard/seen anything from the
>following ppl in a (very) long time:
>
>Ralf N, Jacques D, Lucius H, Mark Honnor, Michael Bolin & some
>others..
>
>So my question is, what happened to these guys? Did all die in a
>plane-crash or what? Or did they just decide to give up on euphoria
>all the sudden?
I do not think they all died. But I am sure some of them left to avoid
death from boredom.
In an attempt to generate a bit of excitement, I'll tell you why I
think this forum is getting less attractive every day. In summary,
it's probably just these three things: Mike-the Spike, incessant
window$ talk and general apparent lack of progress on Robert's part.
In detail, I am not going to spend any time on misogynist Mike and his
lavatory culture. His crude fantasies as well as his transparent lies
can be simply filtered out.
It's a bit more difficult with the Bill's mob. Last night, in quiet
desperation, I went over the last hundred messages. Seventy-nine (79)
of them related to some obscure aspect of Window$, significant, I
suspect, only to Judith and Dan. Now, I am sure Judith is a very nice
lady and Dan is most likely a perfect gentleman. But their obsession
with countless quirks of a second rate operating system does not
coincide with one of my hobbies, nor it is the official subject of
this forum - Euphoria. Dan and Judith are not the only transgressors
in this area, but I am not going to name anybody else - two or three
new enemies a day is my current limit.
The third one, Robert, is also tough, because, just like someone else
said recently, I, too, would prefer to stay on his good side. But his
progress with Euphoria has been painfully slow over the last couple of
years. Ok, we had the Linux version (still a forbidden garden for me,
but I suspect not much more than a re-compilation with a little bit of
tweaking plus some testing), EDS (was it just me who yawned so
brazenly?), and lastly the translator/compiler - lots of expectations,
but eventually even a bigger yawn. I know it's early days yet and it
can only get better, but the signs are not good. The speed gains are
not as great as everyone expected, the size of resulting executables
is truly horrendous, and the initial compiler selection was not
terribly inspirational either. (I think I'll save my meagre
micro-economy fortune for the real McCoy, a native compiler...)
The real issues have not been tackled. There are not that many of them
currently on my list, just two: (1) more sophisticated namespace
handling, and (2) better, smarter tools and/or structures for
interfacing with the outside world.
What do you say, Robert? Even your most faithful followers are getting
increasingly restless.
jiri
6. Re: the fate of a euphorian
>..and general apparent lack of progress on Robert's part.
I partly agree. However, you should keep in mind that RDS practically is a
one-man-band (or maybe Junko is helping Robert with the development of
Euphoria, what do I know..). Anyway, RDS does *not* have an entire army of
people working it's product(s) like MS and Borland do.
Plus, the better a product gets, the harder it'll be to improve.
F.x. if you're building a city in Sim City :) At the beginning your
population-rate will increse rapidly, but as your city grows larger things
will progress slower and slower for each year.
But, this is not to say that we should give Robert 5 years to finish a new
version of Euphoria. Perhaps all of you paying customers should join forces
and put some pressure on Robert if nothing happends in the near future. Just
to let him know that there are people waiting for him to finish whatever it
is that he's doing (don't be too harsh though) :)
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7. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:15:32 +1300, Jiri Babor <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ> wrote:
Jiri:
I am also tired of seeing all the design details of windows code.
I also agree with all of your other comments 100%.
Bernie
8. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Jiri and other,
>In an attempt to generate a bit of excitement, I'll tell you why I
>think this forum is getting less attractive every day. In summary,
>it's probably just these three things: Mike-the Spike, incessant
>window$ talk and general apparent lack of progress on Robert's part.
I agree with everything but the windows stuff. I don't program
in windows much but I do recognize it as a useful OS. Yes it
has some problems, lots to be exact, but it is still, I believe,
the most used OS in the world. Windows support is a plus for
any language.
Yes, MTS has an unpleasant personality. To get away from that
subject as quickly as possible I will address your last item:
"general apparent lack of progress on Robert's part"
Now, I wouldn't have said it quite that way. Robert HAS
progressed in his development of Euphoria, just not in the
direction that most people seem to want to go. The translator
is a good idea but how it got precedence over the addition of
useful syntax, that discussed often, is beyond me.
Someone else mentioned that RDS is a small company (2
developers?) The thing is, if Rob was to hire more people to
help develop the language, he would undoubtably need to raise
the price of the product. Personally I wouldn't mind paying a
bit more to upgrade Euphoria. Say $70.00 US wouldn't be a
problem to me if I got all my wishlist items. ;) Heck that's
still cheap compared to other languages.
>The real issues have not been tackled. There are not that many of them
>currently on my list, just two: (1) more sophisticated namespace handling,
>and (2) better, smarter tools and/or structures for interfacing with the
>outside world.
Let me add mine (in order of importance):
assignment on declaration for variables
vertical slicing
sequences as subscripts
subscription of expressions
subscript shortcuts
later,
Lewis Townsend
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9. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Jiri Babor writes:
> The real issues have not been tackled. There are not that
> many of them currently on my list, just two:
> (1) more sophisticated namespace handling, and
I intend to improve the namespace situation.
Most people on this list probably don't even
know what a "namespace" is. Others are building up
the namespace improvement like it's
going to solve all the world's problems. In fact, it will
prove to be a minor convenience for those who are
integrating large libraries written by others.
> (2) better, smarter tools and/or structures for interfacing
> with the outside world.
As a DOS-only Euphoria programmer, what "outside world"
are you talking about here?
> What do you say, Robert? Even your most faithful
> followers are getting increasingly restless.
As software matures it gets harder to come up with
a stunning new feature each month. More time ends up
going into maintenance, porting, tech support, etc.
The features that are added tend to be more specific ones that
appeal only to a small percentage of users. No software
can take on a linear upward trajectory forever. Consider:
Win3.1 --> Win95 --> Win98 --> Me
Each release was a smaller step from the previous release,
with less fundamental improvement.
I am currently busy on the translator. It's just about
working with LccWin, and I intend to give Borland 5.5
a try before I move on. With the translator I am
competing against my toughest competition so far - myself 
I made the interpreter so darn fast that it's hard to beat it
by a large amount.
If people are getting bored, then I suggest that they
extricate themselves from their arm-chair language designer
chairs, and write some useful code. Don't sit around waiting
for the final features that will make Euphoria perfect.
To this end I am hereby raising the monthly contribution
limit for the MicroEconomy from $1.00 to $3.00.
I am hoping that people will contribute more (and better)
stuff to keep Jiri from getting bored.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
10. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Jiri Babor wrote:
> In an attempt to generate a bit of excitement, I'll
> tell you why I think this forum is getting less attractive
> every day. In summary, it's probably just these three things: Mike-the
Spike, incessant
window$ talk and general apparent lack of progress on Robert's part.
In detail, I am not going to spend any time on misogynist Mike and his
lavatory culture. His crude fantasies as well as his transparent lies
can be simply filtered out.
It's a bit more difficult with the Bill's mob. Last night, in quiet
desperation, I went over the last hundred messages. Seventy-nine (79)
of them related to some obscure aspect of Window$, significant, I
suspect, only to Judith and Dan. Now, I am sure Judith is a very nice
lady and Dan is most likely a perfect gentleman. But their obsession
with countless quirks of a second rate operating system does not
coincide with one of my hobbies, nor it is the official subject of
this forum - Euphoria. Dan and Judith are not the only transgressors
in this area, but I am not going to name anybody else - two or three
new enemies a day is my current limit.
The third one, Robert, is also tough, because, just like someone else
said recently, I, too, would prefer to stay on his good side. But his
progress with Euphoria has been painfully slow over the last couple of
years. Ok, we had the Linux version (still a forbidden garden for me,
but I suspect not much more than a re-compilation with a little bit of
tweaking plus some testing), EDS (was it just me who yawned so
brazenly?), and lastly the translator/compiler - lots of expectations,
but eventually even a bigger yawn. I know it's early days yet and it
can only get better, but the signs are not good. The speed gains are
not as great as everyone expected, the size of resulting executables
is truly horrendous, and the initial compiler selection was not
terribly inspirational either. (I think I'll save my meagre
micro-economy fortune for the real McCoy, a native compiler...)
The real issues have not been tackled. There are not that many of them
currently on my list, just two: (1) more sophisticated namespace
handling, and (2) better, smarter tools and/or structures for
interfacing with the outside world.
What do you say, Robert? Even your most faithful followers are getting
increasingly restless.
jiri
11. Re: the fate of a euphorian
David Cuny wrote:
<snip>
Sorry about that; my machine hiccuped... Bleepin' second-rate operating
systems!
-- David Cuny
12. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Lewis Townsend wrote:
>
> Let me add mine (in order of importance):
>
> assignment on declaration for variables
> vertical slicing
> sequences as subscripts
> subscription of expressions
> subscript shortcuts
Interesting, isn't it - other than your first "wish", which is just a
programmer's convenience, all the others are logical extensions of a
language which brags about being based on "sequences". So logical, in fact,
that I find it hard to understand why they were not implemented long ago.
Irv
13. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:52:07 -0400, Irv <irv at ELLIJAY.COM> wrote:
>Interesting, isn't it - other than your first "wish", which is just a
>programmer's convenience, all the others are logical extensions of a
>language which brags about being based on "sequences". So logical, in fact,
>that I find it hard to understand why they were not implemented long ago.
>
Irv:
How about ( ie ++i ) preincrement before test on a for loop
Bernie
14. Re: the fate of a euphorian
- Posted by Irv <irv at ELLIJAY.COM>
Oct 11, 2000
-
Last edited Oct 12, 2000
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Bernie wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:52:07 -0400, Irv <irv at ELLIJAY.COM> wrote:
>
> >Interesting, isn't it - other than your first "wish", which is just a
> >programmer's convenience, all the others are logical extensions of a
> >language which brags about being based on "sequences". So logical, in fact,
> >that I find it hard to understand why they were not implemented long ago.
> >
> Irv:
>
> How about ( ie ++i ) preincrement before test on a for loop
>
> Bernie
How would that work? After all, the for ...loop _automatically_ increments the
variable. How would you stop that action so you could pre-increment it?
Irv
15. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Heya all!
Its about time I believe I throw in my $.02 on this one....
I've personally been around on the Eu list since the middle of 1.5 (I
believe... I might still have the manual I printed on my schools
comps, paper, and toner, and my time :)), and i've seen the quite
nonlinear progression of Euphoria, and damn, I must say myself
that it's quite beautiful. The progression of Eu to Windows and then
Linux amazed me, (Yay, I can do windows programs!) and yes, I've
too noticed the lack of DOS-specific topics to Windows-specific
topics and Linux experimentation (The wrapper on X is gonna be
sooooooo hard... i can just see it now...), and personally, I really like
seeing this, due to the fact that i'm doing exactly that, I'm
programming for windows and doing some experimentation with linux
programming (It would be nice if I used my linux sometime... i'll be
glad to move over to it if anyone can help me with device driver
support for internal DSL NIC/ANT cards). The discussions lately on
Windows-topics, I tell ya, are going to fit beautifully into a FAQ, due
to the fact that Judith sounds like she's picking at every damn thing,
which is very good to see someone beating away at it. This comes
to a better release of Win32lib later on.
Personally, DOS is a lost platform now, no one is supporting it, its
abandonware by MS like 95 will be sometime soon here, and it
doesn't have many uses for me for using a real GUI. Yes, i'll admit,
the Windows series blows (Still haven't seen 2k/ME yet... i'll only use
ME if its using the 2k kernel. Otherwise, ME can.... well, shove it). In
the long run, I see that Windows and Linux will get more attention,
as Rob and many others have exhausted DOS's useful curve, due to
the fact that again, DOS has no real good GUI, and since noone is
using it much anymore, its quite pointless to put more work into DOS
support. So, i'm saying that Eu DOS has seen its end with 2.2,
IMHO, while EuWin and EuLin have just begun.
With the progression of Eu lately, I agree with what Rob has added
to this. He's right now working on the translator, and so pressing
issues on Eu _right_ now is a pointless black hole of an idea. What
should you all that do have ideas do with them? Write them down on
a piece of paper and staple it to your forehead. And if you seriously
do staple it to your forehead, I'm not responsible for your injuries.
Wait until Rob has slowed down on his work with the translator, and
when its an all-clear, bring your issues up for debate again, and
you'll have a more listening ear.
Okay, so since i've lost my point, i've reiterated things that have
been said (so it sounds to me), and this coffee is REALLY hitting
me, i'll stop now and save you your boredoms.
--"LEVIATHAN"
16. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Lewis wrote
> The translator
> is a good idea but how it got precedence over the addition of
> useful syntax, that discussed often, is beyond me.
I agree. It seems to me that the speedsters have received a little
more horsepower. I want a more confortable ride!
In particular....
1. Resolution of some of the problems related to dealing with calling
dll functions. I don't mind if the allocate / peek / poke thing is wrapped
internally somehow (perhaps preprocessed somehow?). It would be
nice to not have to worry about it before you start using the dll.
2. Namespaces
I wonder could Rob share some of what he is planning? The RDS site
seems to hint at moves in a new direction.
"Better language support for resolving naming conflicts. A long list of
enhancements
to both the language and its implementation."
All the best
Mark
17. Re: the fate of a euphorian
A serious window$ lover wrote to us:
>What should you all that do have ideas do with them? Write them down
>on a piece of paper and staple it to your forehead. <snip>
Hilarious!
Another bright spark from the same camp suggested I was living in a
hole just because I wrote a program or two for dos. The poor sods do
not even realize they are up to their necks in it and paying Micro$oft
for the treatment.
Dos is dead, they say. Why? Because Bill Gate$ said so? He would say
that, wouldn't he, his livelihood depends on it!
Unfortunately, guys, I am not buying this crap. I am old enough to
remember similar silly claims made ten, twenty, thirty years ago: we
would have no books, magazines, newspapers and cinemas because we
would have television, we would have paperless offices because of
computers, etc, etc.
Micro$oft window$ is, historically, a technological *anomaly* created
by stupid IBM that gave Micro$oft an exclusive licence to establish a
virtual monopoly and proceed to blackmail the rest of the world for
decades.
Dos and any sort of gui are not mutually exclusive. The latter is just
a particular, hopefully pretty and useful, extension of the other.
That's why I think dos will be still around long after window$ become
fading, unpleasant memory.
Let me, briefly, return to Robert's reply to my provocation. He wrote:
>>The real issues have not been tackled. There are not that many of
>>them currently on my list, just two:
>>(1) more sophisticated namespace handling, and
>I intend to improve the namespace situation. Most people on this list
>probably don't even know what a "namespace" is.
Mushrooms. Keep them in the dark...
>Others are building up the namespace improvement like it's going to
>solve all the world's problems. In fact, it will prove to be a minor
>convenience for those who are integrating large libraries written by
>others.
It depends how clever you really are. The minor convenience for a few
might turn into a major inconvenience for all of us if you leave too
long.
>>(2) better, smarter tools and/or structures for interfacing
>>with the outside world.
>As a DOS-only Euphoria programmer, what "outside world"
>are you talking about here?
DOS-only programmer. I like that, a cute label, Rob. But forget the
labels for a moment, dos, windows, linux. You know I am not talking
just about a built-in port access, or a low level support for records
or structures and things like that. They would be nice too, but I
really want high level routines that would allow me to communicate
literally with the rest of world, even from dos. For example, I want
to be able to read and write to and from the clipboard, send email to
David Cuny, ftp some files from home to work, etc, etc, preferably
with just a line or two of code. Also, if I need a simple form with a
couple of buttons, I do not want to include 40,000 lines, I want to do
it with half-a-dozen lines, because I know it can be done.
If you do not believe me, have look at REBOL. It can do all that and
much more in a space not much bigger that Euphoria's.
Rob, I love Euphoria. It was a cute baby not that long ago. She's a
young lady now, clever and pretty, but the way you dress her is
reprehensible. A distinctly early eighties look.
jiri
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18. Re: the fate of a euphorian
>...That's why I think dos will be still around long after window$ become
>fading, unpleasant memory.
>
As computers become more powerful, the usage of commandline-based operating
systems seems less and less motivated. Except maybe for the retro-ish
hardcore-guys..
Do you seriously belive that all the people who don't even know how to bring
up a DOS-box will go back to use commandline OS:s ?
Do you seriously belive that DOS is an OS that allows for simple and
effective usage ?
A speaking example:
DOS: ex program.ex [Return]
Windows: "click-click"
Sure, a lot of companies, universities, scientific institutions etc. still
have commandline OS:s running on some of their computers. But do they use
DOS ? Wouldn't think so..
I've got pretty much one positive thing to say about DOS: Since it's such a
primitive OS there's no setup-code required (no class-registration,
window-creation etc.), nor does it have any of those "strange" constructions
of Windows, such as event-responding.
This makes it the OS of choise for the people that are new to programming
(well, unless they start out with VB :)
And since you're anti-Windows, have you ever tried NT ?
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19. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Mic wrote:
>Do you seriously believe that all the people who don't even know how
>to bring up a DOS-box will go back to use commandline OS:s ?
No, I don't. But they are not what we are talking about, they do not
write programs. We do. We will give them their buttons, entry boxes,
drop-down menus or what ever they desire. And even among us will be
many divisions. The 'not-so-bright' and the lazy ones will go, as
usual, for the VB style construction sets, and you will have the
'clever' bastards most likely at the other end of the spectrum, still
submerged in assembly. And the command line will be used by most of
us, except for the really dumb, of course.
>And since you're anti-Windows, have you ever tried NT ?
At work it's just Unix boxes and NT machines. The people who use Unix
seriously don't really have time to waste fiddling around with pretty
interfaces. And I tell you what, my blood gets close to boil every
morning when I switch my NT machine on. It takes about five minutes to
display 'Press Ctrl-Alt-Del to start' (it can't get any more stupid
than that, why did I switch it on in the first place?), then I can
fetch my first coffee from the other side of the building and have a
danish before it's ready to do something useful. The same in the
evening. I can go to the toilet and have a shave before it tells me
'It is save to turn the power off now'. So do not talk to me about
NTs.
jiri
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20. Re: the fate of a euphorian
one more word to those saying Dos is dead: it is not! don't forget that
there are a lot of countries where people simply can't afford those
expensive computers, and are happy with old ones. Give them a chance...
And have a look at http://www.seal.de.vu to see what can be done as a gui
for dos.
See also www.newdealinc.com : they use the geoworks environment to bring us
gui and applications.
Riwal
21. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On 12 Oct 2000, at 0:44, LEVIATHAN wrote:
>
> Personally, DOS is a lost platform now, no one is supporting it, its
> abandonware by MS like 95 will be sometime soon here, and it
> doesn't have many uses for me for using a real GUI. Yes, i'll admit,
> the Windows series blows (Still haven't seen 2k/ME yet... i'll only use
> ME if its using the 2k kernel. Otherwise, ME can.... well, shove it).
One will run on multi-cpu motherbds, the other won't,, and i don't remember
which is
which.
>due to
> the fact that again, DOS has no real good GUI,
Umm,,,, that's what the whole point of windoze is,, to be a dos gui.
On 12 Oct 2000, at 13:26, mic _ wrote:
> As computers become more powerful, the usage of commandline-based operating
> systems seems less and less motivated. Except maybe for the retro-ish
> hardcore-guys..
You mean you believed Billy Gates when he said dos was not part of win95?! It's
the
whole freaking OS that lives under the gui and dos task switcher!! Same with
win98,
and i suspect the whole windoze line, even if redone in 32 or 64bit code and
called a
*.dll. Besides,, the application that runs on dos can have *any* interface, not
just
commandline. I used voice recognition on puters pre-msdos, and voice output. And
remember, dos *can* be multitasked.
Kat
22. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On 11 Oct 2000, at 12:26, Robert Craig wrote:
> Jiri Babor writes:
>
> > (2) better, smarter tools and/or structures for interfacing
> > with the outside world.
>
> As a DOS-only Euphoria programmer, what "outside world"
> are you talking about here?
Integral hardware access (the hardware ports, integrated motherbds, multiple cpu
motherbds, card (modem, etc) access)?
Jiri wrote:
> If you do not believe me, have look at REBOL. It can do all that and
> much more in a space not much bigger that Euphoria's.
Or:
[10:36] <HAL9000> Tiggr, what is Dialect?
[10:36] <[Tiggr]> Dialect : The Dialect language originated as a version of the
Basic
language. Because of its simplicity, Dialect is extremely useful for writing
small utility
programs. Dialect currently runs under Windows 9x/NT and Windows CE 2. A
modified
version of Dialect, sans a few features, has been compiled under Linux and might
be
made available at a later date. From: http://www.aristar.com/
But i see REBOL as a wrapper, with a huge rule table for *when* to do what, and
that
makes it error prone, imho, since the "what" that happens isn't fixed. I'm not
using it,,
but since i can't have mirc in Eu, or vice versa, mixing Dialect with Eu works,,
can't
beat those sequences when you need sequences and speed.
Kat,
still wanting a goto within procedure/function blocks.
23. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On 12 Oct 2000, at 15:41, Raude Riwal wrote:
> one more word to those saying Dos is dead: it is not! don't forget that
> there are a lot of countries where people simply can't afford those
> expensive computers, and are happy with old ones. Give them a chance...
> And have a look at http://www.seal.de.vu to see what can be done as a g=
ui
> for dos.
Ooops!
Aufgrund kurzzeitiger technischer Probleme, bitten wir um etwas Geduld!
Die von Ihnen aufgerufene Domain wird in K=FCrze wieder zur Verf=FCgung s=
tehen.
In der heutigen Nacht werden wir eine komplette technische Umstellung vor=
nehmen.
Vielen Dank f=FCr Ihr Verst=E4ndnis!
> See also www.newdealinc.com : they use the geoworks environment to brin=
g us
> gui and applications.
Couldn't connect to that one at all.
Kat
24. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:32:06 -0400, Irv <irv at ELLIJAY.COM> wrote:
>How would that work? After all, the for ...loop _automatically_ increments
the
>variable. How would you stop that action so you could pre-increment it?
>
Irv:
I guess you are right, Rob would have to change the way a for loop
is defined.
I find it a pain to have to convert a for loop into a while loop
when translating from a "C" program into euphoria program.
Bernie
25. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Kat,
I use Dialect quite a lot, but the downside of it is that an executable is
about 800 K big; compare that to an Euphoria bound .exw file.
But, mixing Eu and Dialect? Is that possible? how?
Ad
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: Kat <gertie at PELL.NET>
Aan: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Verzonden: donderdag 12 oktober 2000 17:51
Onderwerp: Re: the fate of a euphorian
%< -- snip -- >%
> [10:36] <HAL9000> Tiggr, what is Dialect?
> [10:36] <[Tiggr]> Dialect : The Dialect language originated as a version
of the Basic
> language. Because of its simplicity, Dialect is extremely useful for
writing small utility
> programs. Dialect currently runs under Windows 9x/NT and Windows CE 2. A
modified
> version of Dialect, sans a few features, has been compiled under Linux and
might be
> made available at a later date. From: http://www.aristar.com/
>
> But i see REBOL as a wrapper, with a huge rule table for *when* to do
what, and that
> makes it error prone, imho, since the "what" that happens isn't fixed. I'm
not using it,,
> but since i can't have mirc in Eu, or vice versa, mixing Dialect with Eu
works,, can't
> beat those sequences when you need sequences and speed.
>
> Kat,
> still wanting a goto within procedure/function blocks.
26. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Kat wrote:
> Dialect
Dialect looks a *lot* like Python, but using Basic syntax. Among other
things, they have the same:
- data types (strings, dictionaries, lists, etc)
- syntax for classes
- pass by value/reference types
- clone/deepclone functions
- import routines
- exception handling
- on-the-fly variable declarations
Pretty slick.
-- David Cuny
27. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On 12 Oct 2000, at 19:00, Ad Rienks wrote:
> Kat,
>
> I use Dialect quite a lot, but the downside of it is that an executable is
> about 800 K big; compare that to an Euphoria bound .exw file.
> But, mixing Eu and Dialect? Is that possible? how?
Same way i mixed mirc and Eu, figure which language is best for what job, and
tell
that language to do it. For instance, i use mirc for irc, mirc is already
written, it works
well, has a good gui interface. I can use Eu for data munging by communicating
with
Eu via winsock. You may choose to use other languages for the same jobs. The
upside to this round about way of doing things is that Eu may be your web
portal, and
mirc on a winbox behind it, or you'd have an Apple running Dialect on BeOS on a
lan
behind the winbox running Eu, or whatever,,,, using the best of each platform
and the
best of each language. I don't haveto write much windoze code to have a nice gui
in
mirc, and i have the power of Eu behind it managing the database, and since it's
two
different programs, it's multitasking the as well as any winbox can multitask,
and it
can spawn more tasks as needed.
Kat
28. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:50:57 GMT, mic _ <stabmaster_ at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>So my question is, what happened to these guys? Did all die in a
plane-crash
>or what? Or did they just decide to give up on euphoria all the sudden?
>I know many euphorians (like myself) are students and, as in the case of
...
I'm insulted! :) You didn't mention me in there. I have to admit, I've
pretty much stopped using euphoria(*GASP!!!!!*). i'm focusing all my att-
ention on Java now. I especially love the sockets implementation. So far,
I've written a bot, an IRC server(it worked for a long time, but now...heh),
and an HTTP server(surf to warp10.dnsalias.net whenever i'm online). Sure,
eu has it's advantages over java, but euphoria seriously needs this stuff:
* OOP
* Sockets
* A portable GUI lib like AWT and Swing
* Totally off topic from this message: references. Euphoria despises
pointers, doesn't it(except for call())? So why not use references
instead? If you want to get a reference instead of a copy of a variable,
you might, say, prefix a var name with &.
29. Re: the fate of a euphorian
Kat German text
----- Original Message -----
From: Kat <gertie at PELL.NET>
To: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: the fate of a euphorian
> On 12 Oct 2000, at 15:41, Raude Riwal wrote:
>
> > one more word to those saying Dos is dead: it is not! don't forget th=
at
> > there are a lot of countries where people simply can't afford those
> > expensive computers, and are happy with old ones. Give them a chance.=
..
> > And have a look at http://www.seal.de.vu to see what can be done as a
gui
> > for dos.
>
> Ooops!
> Aufgrund kurzzeitiger technischer Probleme, bitten wir um etwas Geduld!
> Die von Ihnen aufgerufene Domain wird in K=FCrze wieder zur Verf=FCgung
stehen.
This means that thier machines are down for to night and the hope that th=
ey
will be
on the ear tomorrow .
(Menno)
>
> In der heutigen Nacht werden wir eine komplette technische Umstellung
vornehmen.
> Vielen Dank f=FCr Ihr Verst=E4ndnis!
>
> > See also www.newdealinc.com : they use the geoworks environment to br=
ing
us
> > gui and applications.
>
> Couldn't connect to that one at all.
>
> Kat
30. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Darth Maul, aka Matt wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:50:57 GMT, mic _ <stabmaster_ at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> >So my question is, what happened to these guys? Did all die in a
>> plane-crash
>> >or what? Or did they just decide to give up on euphoria all the sudden?
>> >I know many euphorians (like myself) are students and, as in the case of
>> ...
>> <I'm insulted! :) You didn't mention me in there. I have to admit, I've
>> pretty much stopped using euphoria(*GASP!!!!!*). i'm focusing all my att-
>> ention on Java now. I especially love the sockets implementation. So far,
>> I've written a bot, an IRC server(it worked for a long time, but now...heh),
>> and an HTTP server(surf to warp10.dnsalias.net whenever i'm online). Sure,
>> eu has it's advantages over java, but euphoria seriously needs this stuff:
>>
>> * OOP
>> * Sockets
>> * A portable GUI lib like AWT and Swing
>> * Totally off topic from this message: references. Euphoria despises
>> pointers, doesn't it(except for call())? So why not use references
>> instead? If you want to get a reference instead of a copy of a variable,
>> you might, say, prefix a var name with &.
This really is not the place to tell people what Java has that Euphoria does
not. I would be glad to tell you *all* the flaws of Java (and there a
whole sh*t load of them) sometime but i feel it rather inapproprite on this
list.
--
evil, corruption and bad taste
^cense
31. Re: the fate of a euphorian
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:50:57 GMT, mic _ <stabmaster_ at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>It just struck me that I haven't heard/seen anything from the following ppl
>in a (very) long time:
>
>Ralf N, Jacques D, Lucius H, Mark Honnor, Michael Bolin & some others..
>
I'm still here. I havnt done any programming for months :( Ive been busy
working on music and art. But I am planing to start working on a new game
maybe today. Im sure as usual I wont finish it, but maybe ill be lucky this
time.
-Mark.
32. Re: the fate of a euphorian
I'm still here, silently, reading a small selection of this euphoria junk.
Greetings, Ralf.
----- Original Message -----
From: Liquid-Nitrogen Software <nitrogen_069 at HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: the fate of a euphorian
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:50:57 GMT, mic _ <stabmaster_ at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> >It just struck me that I haven't heard/seen anything from the following
ppl
> >in a (very) long time:
> >
> >Ralf N, Jacques D, Lucius H, Mark Honnor, Michael Bolin & some others..
> >
>
>
> I'm still here. I havnt done any programming for months :( Ive been busy
> working on music and art. But I am planing to start working on a new game
> maybe today. Im sure as usual I wont finish it, but maybe ill be lucky
this
> time.
>
> -Mark.
>
