1. Some Euphoria questions
Heh?
Well since I'm still around,
I might aswell ask you, Robert, some questions about Euphoria wich others
have being wanting to ask but were too chicken to do so. (remeber? I have no
fear.)
1. Post some C code produced by the translator.
2. Do you plan to eventualy make compiled Euphoria programs run faster than
equivalent C programs? If not I will.
3. Where did I leave my socks? and...
4. Who the hell is part of RDS? Just you and your wife?
Awnser these questions or feel my warth!
I mean wrath.
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
2. Re: Some Euphoria questions
Cool beans! I especially like euphoria.h... Thanks Rob!
Some of the variable names are a bit odd though, as well as the use of goto
& labels instead of loop constructs. But I must say, very cool indeed. :)
Pete
On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:06:27 -0400, Robert Craig <rds at ATTCANADA.NET> wrote:
>See attached. I've included:
> sieve.c - sieve routine
> main$.c - "top level" code
> main.h - include file for sieve program
> init$.c - initializations for sieve
> euphoria.h - standard include file
> make.bat - batch file to do the WATCOM compiles/link of sieve
> objfiles.lnk - WATCOM link file for sieve
>
>All files above were generated automatically by the translator,
>by typing:
> ec sieve
>except for euphoria.h which is a standard file needed by all
>.c files generated by ec (or ecw or ecu).
>The file ec.lib, needed for linking, is not included. It's 68K.
>
>> 2. Do you plan to eventualy make compiled
>> Euphoria programs run faster than equivalent C programs?
>
>No. Just get as close as I can.
>The sieve program (above) currently runs about 2/3 as fast as
>hand-coded and fully-optimized C for sieve.
>There are still several places where the generated C
>code can be improved by further optimization, but
>I'll do it after the alpha release (in a couple of weeks).
>
>> 4. Who the hell is part of RDS? Just you and your wife?
>
>Yes.
>
>Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
>
>
3. Re: Some Euphoria questions
Robert Craig wrote:
> See attached.
And at last, the innards of the Euphoria are revealed! (Without error
checking, of course.)
After a quick look at your code, I don't see any major secrets being given
away that can't be gleaned from Peuphoria. It's nice to see that we made
some good guesses, even if my own implementation of sequences was just plain
awful.
Seeing binary_op and unary_op defined instead of add/sub/mul/div was a bit
of a suprise, but makes sense.
I'm suprised by how readable the generated code it: nice indentation,
references to the original Euphoria source code lines, C variables sharing
the same names as the Euphoria code. Loops unsuprisingly optimized to jumps;
I would imagine Euphoria generates 'real' machine code.
Oddly, you define constants (like BATCH), but never reference them, and
instead of calling it like:
_0cycles = _0cycles + BATCH;
you optimize it away:
_0cycles = _0cycles + 50;
But I'm not supposed to be reading automatically generated code, am I? 
It's also nice to see the makefile is automatically generated.
Very cool!
-- David Cuny
4. Re: Some Euphoria questions
David Cuny writes:
> Oddly, you define constants (like BATCH), but never
> reference them, and instead of calling it like:
>
> _0cycles = _0cycles + BATCH;
>
> you optimize it away:
>
> _0cycles = _0cycles + 50;
Good point. Easy to fix. The following statements have
now been eliminated from main$.c:
_0BATCH = 50;
_0BENCH_TIME = 15;
_0SIZE = 500;
_0ON = 1;
_0OFF = 0;
_0SCREEN = 1;
The declarations of these symbols in
init$.c and main$.h have also been eliminated.
If a Euphoria constant symbol is set to an integer literal
(like they usually are) I no longer emit any declarations
or code for it. I just plug in the numeric value as needed.
When a constant is set to a more complex expression
I still have to emit a declaration plus some code to
evaluate the expression.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
5. Re: Some Euphoria questions
So, then, what I will be able to do is write a program in EUPHORIA,
translate it to C, then show that to all my friends and family (as well as
work associates) and brag about my C-coding skills? 
R. Craig said:
>
> See attached. I've included:
> sieve.c - sieve routine
> main$.c - "top level" code
> main.h - include file for sieve program
> init$.c - initializations for sieve
> euphoria.h - standard include file
> make.bat - batch file to do the WATCOM compiles/link of sieve
> objfiles.lnk - WATCOM link file for sieve
>
> All files above were generated automatically by the translator,
> by typing:
> ec sieve
> except for euphoria.h which is a standard file needed by all
> .c files generated by ec (or ecw or ecu).
> The file ec.lib, needed for linking, is not included. It's 68K.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
6. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>Mike The Spike (a.k.a. Jason Leit, a.k.a. ...) writes:
lol
> >1. Post some C code produced by the translator.
>
>See attached. I've included:
> sieve.c - sieve routine
> main$.c - "top level" code
> main.h - include file for sieve program
> init$.c - initializations for sieve
> euphoria.h - standard include file
> make.bat - batch file to do the WATCOM compiles/link of sieve
> objfiles.lnk - WATCOM link file for sieve
>
>All files above were generated automatically by the translator,
>by typing:
> ec sieve
>except for euphoria.h which is a standard file needed by all
>.c files generated by ec (or ecw or ecu).
>The file ec.lib, needed for linking, is not included. It's 68K.
Hmmm....
Well fuck!
Actually, Robert, this is pretty well constructed code.
Very light-weight and structured.
Also, very complex.
To think that anyone on this list that does not know the C programming
language can actually cook up an extremely simple Euphoria program and turn
it into a C program wich no human hand can even write without cramping and
no human brain can ever conceive without melting.
See people?
Your tiny l'ille Euphoria text editor can be turned into a complex C program
of atomic proportions, wich if you use to apply for a C programmer position,
will get you the job after some C programmers had to be taken away to the
hospital with brain overcapacitating.
Yet, Robert, this is not a good thing in every aspect.
For one, readability *is* important!
Compare this, a snippet of your translator's Sieve.c, with a snippet of my
U4IA++'s Sieve.c;
-- Rob's
#include "\edev\src\euphoria.h"
#include "main$.h"
int _0sieve()
{
int _prime;
int _start;
int _count;
int _still_prime;
int _13 = 0;
int _0, _1, _2, _3;
// count = 0
_count = 0;
// flags = repeat(ON, SIZE)
_0 = _0flags;
_0flags = Repeat(1, 500);
DeRef(_0);
// for i = 1 to SIZE do
{ int _i;
_i = 1;
L0:
if (_i > 500)
goto L1;
// still_prime = flags[i]
_1 = _i - 1;
_2 = (int)SEQ_PTR(_0flags);
_still_prime = (int)*(_1 + ((s1_ptr)_2)->first);
// if still_prime then
if (_still_prime == 0)
goto L2;
// prime = 2 * i
_prime = _i + _i;
// prime += 1
_prime = _prime + 1;
// start = prime + i
_start = _prime + _i;
-- Mike's
// ---------------------------
// -- Prime Sieve Benchmark --
// ---------------------------
#include <euphoria.h>
#define BATCH 50
#define BENCH_TIME 15
#define SIZE 500 // finds primes up to SIZE*2+1
// (only tests odd numbers)
#define ON 1
#define OFF 0
sequence flags;
integer i, k;
function sieve()
integer prime, start, count, still_prime;
count = 0;
flags = repeat(ON, SIZE);
for(i = 1; i <= SIZE; i++)
{
still_prime = flags.data[i].data;
if(still_prime)
{
prime = 2 * i;
prime = prime + 1;
start = prime + i;
Now mine is C code aswell!
To clarify, my own Sequence data type is defined as follows;
typedef struct
{
void * data;
char type;
} object;
typedef struct
{
object * data;
int length;
} sequence;
Simple eh? And it works fast too!
char type can be SEQUENCE, ATOM or INTEGER at any given moment.
The only problem with my aproach is that the atom, sequence and object data
types take 1, 4 and 1 bytes extra to store respectively. Not realy a bad
thing because it makes everything much faster and easier in the long run.
I like the directory structure very much, and Jason Leit allready guessed
the batch file you'd use (lol!), yet offcourse like I said before, there is
no reason to hide the Euphoria core source in an object file because it
tampers with portability, and there realy ain't nothing to hide. My
translator produced the following files upon compiling sieve.ex;
* euphoria.h - header file containing data type & function definitions
* euphoria.c - source file containing function bodies
* sieve.c - sieve.ex translated to c
* compile.bat - multiplatform compilation utility
Note that above code I posted is generated when you choose the Single
Platform option. When you choose Multiple Platforms, some #ifdef WIN32,
#ifdef DOS32, etc. structures are added. Also, above code was produced in
optmise for readability mode, if you choose to optimise for speed, then
using #ifdefs Assembly language constructs for each type of target compiler
wich supports inline ASM is added to the code at critical points (for tight
loops, bulky math, etc.) wich makes things a lot faster than standard C. In
case of an abscent inline assembler for a given target compiler, U4IA++'s
call() is used.
Anyways, good job Robert!
I didn't think you'd go through with the project at some point in time ;)
> > 2. Do you plan to eventualy make compiled
> > Euphoria programs run faster than equivalent C programs?
>
>No. Just get as close as I can.
>The sieve program (above) currently runs about 2/3 as fast as
>hand-coded and fully-optimized C for sieve.
>There are still several places where the generated C
>code can be improved by further optimization, but
>I'll do it after the alpha release (in a couple of weeks).
2/3 is pretty good!
Excellent actually!
Keep working on it!
(btw my translator's code runs at aprox. 1.5% faster than handcoded C due to
the ASM optimisations)
> > 4. Who the hell is part of RDS? Just you and your wife?
>
>Yes.
Excellent then!
>Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
>
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
7. Re: Some Euphoria questions
On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:49:17 GMT, Mike The Spike
<mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>Yet, Robert, this is not a good thing in every aspect.
>For one, readability *is* important!
>Compare this, a snippet of your translator's Sieve.c, with a snippet of my
>U4IA++'s Sieve.c;
>
Mike:
When is U4IA++ going to be available ?
Is the Alpha or Beta version available now ?
What C compilers does it support ?
Will it be available before RDS version ?
Will there be a public domain version available ?
Thanks
8. Re: Some Euphoria questions
> >Yet, Robert, this is not a good thing in every aspect.
> >For one, readability *is* important!
> >Compare this, a snippet of your translator's Sieve.c, with a snippet of
>my
> >U4IA++'s Sieve.c;
> >
>
> Mike:
>
> When is U4IA++ going to be available ?
>
> Is the Alpha or Beta version available now ?
>
> What C compilers does it support ?
>
> Will it be available before RDS version ?
>
> Will there be a public domain version available ?
>
> Thanks
Heh?
I aswered all these questions and explained there is no U4IA++ going to be
released, unless Euphoria doesn't pull itself straight soon.
It's blackmail, actually.
But, I'll awnser these questions anyways;
> When is U4IA++ going to be available ?
Right after the Euphoria translator is released and it sucks white ass. If
it's good (wich it prolly is -- I saw the code produced) I won't release
U4IA++ ever.
I initially created it for my own coding requirements.
> Is the Alpha or Beta version available now ?
Yes it is. Mail me personaly for a limited version if you want.
> What C compilers does it support ?
About 70, can't name all of them.
Every 32-Bit ANSI C or C++ compiler ever released for Windows, DOS and
Linux, including every single version, is supported through smart code
generation. Non-ANSI features like graphics and sound are implemented per
platform in the source using #ifdefs. For DOS32 VESA code is used for pixel
graphics. For WIN32 windows.h is included into the produced source and
graphics output is performed by GDI right onto the desktop. (Screen in
win32lib).
Basically I just decide wich function body to assign to a given function on
a given platform.
A multiplatform GUI library mimicking the Windows GUI to the last pixel and
minutest detail, known as NightShade (tm) (SABAM 2000-2001), is also
included as a Euphoria library, and compiles for all three platforms
supported. Its also an OS and can run Windows programs and DLLs under DOS
and Linux, except for VXDs.
By rewriting parts of the code produced by hand, or by feeding the
Translator a Platform Definition File, you can compile your Euphoria and
U4IA++ programs for any platform wich supports an ANSI C compiler.
Wich is a crapload of platforms.
The interpretter being worked on for it has a subsystem wich can compile
Euphoria or Euphoria++ programs into Machine Code, and call respective
routines as if they were part of a DLL, working exactly the same for every
x86 platform, and outperforms Windows or Linux DLLs in Load and call time
(Machine Code Compiled Euphoria functions are inlined by the interpretter,
so call overhead is non-existant).
Also, open_dll() works under DOS and LINUX for Win32 DLLs using previously
mentioned GUI/OS library.
> Will it be available before RDS version ?
After, if at all.
> Will there be a public domain version available ?
If it's released, yes. I'd release the translator as public domain and the
translator/interpretter/Devstudio/Help System/TTS spoken Tutorials/Media
Engines/U4IA++OS/Multiplatform GUI library/C compilers/console emulators
(For U4IA++ MIPS3000/MIPS4000)/ combo as a
500/2000 dollar package available in the store and at my domain
www.U4iaInc.com, 'Inc' standing for Increment.
I also planned a book on the U4IA++ programming language, and intended to
bundle it with a learners edition of the language and a 3D version of
Language Wars.
> Thanks
No problem.
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
9. Re: Some Euphoria questions
I've been staying out of the whole compiler war ever since it started for =
several reasons:
The bind utility with Euphoria quite adequately meets my need for =
stand-alone executables. Any C++ compiler will usually (granted, not =
always) link larger than the equivalent Euphoria .exe, especially when you =
bundle the required .dll or .so files into a package. I have a Windows =
package written in Euphoria that can still fit onto a single floppy disk. =
An equivalent package written in C++ by another company, costing about =
US$30,000, requires significant hard disk space (~30Meg) and runs less =
reliably.
I don't need to squeeze every picosecond out of my PC. I'm not doing =
intensive graphics updates, and the speed of my programs are usually =
limited by the speed of the hard disk anyway. =20
The ability to debug on the fly (when running an unbound program) instead =
of edit/compile/link/run/crash/debug makes my job a hundred times easier.
Now to M.T.S. et al:
Can you provide a sample output of your translator as Rob has done, so we =
can compare the output?
When is your website going to be active? According to Network Solutions =
(InterNIC), that domain has yet to be registered.
Michael J. Sabal
>>> mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM 08/18/00 11:42AM >>>
Yes it is. Mail me personaly for a limited version if you want.
> Will there be a public domain version available ?
... at my domain
www.U4iaInc.com, 'Inc' standing for Increment.
10. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>I've been staying out of the whole compiler war ever since it started for
>several reasons:
>
>The bind utility with Euphoria quite adequately meets my need for
>stand-alone executables. Any C++ compiler will usually (granted, not
>always) link larger than the equivalent Euphoria .exe, especially when you
>bundle the required .dll or .so files into a package. I have a Windows
>package written in Euphoria that can still fit onto a single floppy disk.
>An equivalent package written in C++ by another company, costing about
>US$30,000, requires significant hard disk space (~30Meg) and runs less
>reliably.
Yeah, and it's also no news that the only customers RDS has are those people
just like you that "find Euphoria's slowness good enough for their little
projects", and that's also the reasons why the rest of the world, that won't
put up with this crap, are coding in faster languages and selling those
30,000 30Meg packages you mention while you distribute yours on a floppy
disk for free.
>I don't need to squeeze every picosecond out of my PC. I'm not doing
>intensive graphics updates, and the speed of my programs are usually
>limited by the speed of the hard disk anyway.
Again, these are YOUR standards. The goal for RDS is to win the major public
and make as much cash as they possibly can. All young coders out there are
eighter game programmers or attempting to become game programmers. These are
the people that will code in the language that can help them compete in the
games industry, where you pay thousands of dollars on hardware just to gain
those extra 20 frames per second.
A programming language wich takes away those extra 20fps by being slow as
hell, won't stand a chance.
Every major software industry today deals with speed as if it were a holy
grail wich must be nurtured. Multi Media is the age we live in, and Euphoria
can't provide Media features, let alone Multi media features. MP3? Too slow.
MPEG? Too slow. 3D graphics? Too slow. Internet browser? Too slow. AVI? Too
slow. 3D Games? Too slow. Speech Recognition? Too slow. 3D Sound? Too slow.
>The ability to debug on the fly (when running an unbound program) instead
>of edit/compile/link/run/crash/debug makes my job a hundred times easier.
It's edit/compile/run actualy.
I have had Win32 C programs compile and run faster than Euphoria programs.
Download LCC, compile a small program, and see that it only takes a second
or two. Don't believe myths RDS tells you.
>Now to M.T.S. et al:
>
>Can you provide a sample output of your translator as Rob has done, so we
>can compare the output?
Ah crap!
Why do I even bother!
I did that a few posts ago in this same topic.
Read before you write.
>When is your website going to be active? According to Network Solutions
>(InterNIC), that domain has yet to be registered.
>Michael J. Sabal
>
> >>> mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM 08/18/00 11:42AM >>>
>
>Yes it is. Mail me personaly for a limited version if you want.
>
> > Will there be a public domain version available ?
>
>... at my domain
>www.U4iaInc.com, 'Inc' standing for Increment.
Search again, and do it using a regional domain name search engine.
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
11. Re: Some Euphoria questions
Hrm... Mike The Spike, understand that everyone that programs in Euphoria is
doing it as a hobby... Once again, we already know that Euphoria wont ever be
the equal C alternative, but just for fun and for minimal personal use, we
find it enough... Who cares about the big companies. If they cant use
Euphoria, no one is forcing them to... Everyone chooses what they wish to do
with there free time, and we choose Euphoria. If you think its a bad choice
then leave and find something else to do with your free time.
~later~
12. Re: Some Euphoria questions
On 18 Aug 2000, at 16:42, Mike The Spike wrote:
> Every major software industry today deals with speed as if it were a holy
> grail wich must be nurtured. Multi Media is the age we live in, and Euphoria
> can't provide Media features, let alone Multi media features. MP3? Too slow.
> MPEG? Too slow. 3D graphics? Too slow. Internet browser? Too slow.
Excuse me? Eu gets me a page off the net and saved to a disk file, faster than
IE5
can, like 2x as fast or more.
Kat
13. Re: Some Euphoria questions
On 18 Aug 2000, at 13:39, Alex Ford wrote:
> Hrm... Mike The Spike, understand that everyone that programs in Euphoria is
> doing it as a hobby... Once again, we already know that Euphoria wont ever be
> the equal C alternative, but just for fun and for minimal personal use, we
> find it enough... Who cares about the big companies. If they cant use
> Euphoria, no one is forcing them to... Everyone chooses what they wish to do
> with there free time, and we choose Euphoria. If you think its a bad choice
> then leave and find something else to do with your free time.
/me has larger aspirations than mere hobby.
Kat
14. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>Hrm... Mike The Spike, understand that everyone that programs in Euphori=
a
>is
>doing it as a hobby... Once again, we already know that Euphoria wont ev=
er
>be
>the equal C alternative, but just for fun and for minimal personal use, =
we
>find it enough...
So why boast about Euphoria being the alternative to C in the documentati=
on?
"C Programmers: 20 reasons why you are going to write you next program in
Euphoria!".
See, Euphoria can be made faster and better than C, if actually worked on
the right way. Comming up with a Euphoria interpretter in 1993 and keepin=
g
it the same interpretter with some extra functions untill the year 2000, =
is
not going to make a difference now will it?
Finnaly RDS worked on a translator, and will sell it. Now you people
can have the best of both worlds.
Allthough I say they should have written a translator when Euphoria was
initialy released.
>Who cares about the big companies. If they cant use
>Euphoria, no one is forcing them to...
That's the problem right there.
NO ONE is forcing big companies to use Euphoria.
Simply because it is no good to them.
With some new mainstream features, Euphoria might just be able to force
those big companies to start using it.
>Everyone chooses what they wish to do
>with there free time, and we choose Euphoria. If you think its a bad
> >choice
>then leave and find something else to do with your free time.
>
>~later~
Sure I understand.
Euphoria is fun to use.
I don't think it's a bad choice at all for you to work with Euphoria.
I think it was a bad choice of RDS by letting the world get away with *JU=
ST*
you people working with Euphoria.
Come on.
In these days DLLs are pass=E9.
They all want OCX's now.
And Euphoria doesn't even allow to create DLLs!
And doesn't allow using OCX's!
If you think DLLs are just insignifanct things, then you don't realise th=
at
if Windows did not feature DLLs we'd all be working with DOS today!
Programmers like to reuse their code. Simple. A big company *has* to reus=
e
code if it can, or it will lose money.
To write large commercial software, you *must* be able to write your own
DLLs. Simple. Buy *any* commercial software package in the stores and see
that it contains numerous custom DLLs that accompany the main program. Th=
is
is yet another reason why there are no companies using Euphoria, and why
Euphoria is not mainstream, simply because companies miss the features th=
ey
need!
A game company, for example, will not settle for no-DLLs, no technical
support, atleast 20 FPS less in speed, 1/10th the overall speed of C, no =
IDE
and no portability to consoles, while they can have all that with C or C+=
+.
Hell, even C# has a better prospect.
RDS is a company.
Companies need money to survive.
So do people.
RDS sells Euphoria, it is their product.
Their goal therefore, as a company, is to sell as much as they can, meani=
ng
more money.
There was a long time RDS ignored the outside world, and the reality of t=
he
computer industry today, but they are trying to catch up now.
Euphoria is great, but it is not extraordinary.
The reason why there aren't any faster interpretters out there is because=
no
one gives a fuck about interpretters and their speed, because no one is
trying to compete against compiled and optimised C using an interpretter.
Does it run 10 times slower than c, 20 times, 100 times, 200 times, it
doesn't matter to them, aslong as it runs.
Any moron can easily meet or exceed Euphoria's interprettation speed, by
using age-old interprettation techniques, given the right motivation.
Why don't you take a look at the scripting engines some games have.
THOSE are F A S T because the game designers can't afford to loose speed.
Look at the C-like .con files in Duke Nukem 3D, those are translated to
Machine Code at game startup.
Or take a look at UnrealScript. Maybe Quake C?
Or hey! Take a look at that crappy Dink Smallwood game that comes with it=
's
own free script COMPILER!
I don't think RDS ever checked those interpretters out, because they have
garbage collection, crash safety (because they are designed to let gamers
create mods), and high speeds.
Some even have a Sequence-like datatype!
Interpretters can be part of a web browser, a finance program, or a video
game. But you shouldn't try to take over the Compiler industry with an
interpretter alone!
Mike The Spike
PS. Again note that RDS has being working on these issues and the Transla=
tor
is the beginning of it all.
And, I'm just pointing things out, no one is paying me to do so, so take =
it
as a favor or shit on it's face.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
15. Re: Some Euphoria questions
> > Every major software industry today deals with speed as if it were a
>holy
> > grail wich must be nurtured. Multi Media is the age we live in, and
>Euphoria
> > can't provide Media features, let alone Multi media features. MP3? Too
>slow.
> > MPEG? Too slow. 3D graphics? Too slow. Internet browser? Too slow.
>
>Excuse me? Eu gets me a page off the net and saved to a disk file, faster
>than IE5
>can, like 2x as fast or more.
>
>Kat
That's prolly because your program does not do what IE5 is doing.
believe me, it isn't even doing half of it.
If you'd take IE5's download code, and translate it to Euphoria, you'd see
the Euphoria code would run slower.
I know what Microsoft's main priority was with Internet Explorer +3.0 and
that was most certainly download speeds.
What else is a browser to do other than download?
MS has great compition with Netscape, so I don't think they'd just slap some
old slow download code in IE 5.0 and call it a night.
IE's download code is presumably caching, recording transfer speeds,
calculating the time left, checking connection integrity every x second
interval, checking free hard drive space, etc.
You might just call a WININET "Download()" function and get it over with,
but that won't work for a web browser. You'd have to keep track of download
speeds, etc. and you can't do that through WININET, meaning you'd have to
code you own connection and download routines.
Also, maybe the server was just busy!!
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
16. Re: Some Euphoria questions
> > Hrm... Mike The Spike, understand that everyone that programs in
>Euphoria is
> > doing it as a hobby... Once again, we already know that Euphoria wont
>ever be
> > the equal C alternative, but just for fun and for minimal personal use,
>we
> > find it enough... Who cares about the big companies. If they cant use
> > Euphoria, no one is forcing them to... Everyone chooses what they wish
>to do
> > with there free time, and we choose Euphoria. If you think its a bad
>choice
> > then leave and find something else to do with your free time.
>
>/me has larger aspirations than mere hobby.
>
>Kat
/me wants to know what those are.
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
17. Re: Some Euphoria questions
On 18 Aug 2000, at 18:39, Mike The Spike wrote:
<snip (the email, not MTS)>
> In these days DLLs are passé.
> They all want OCX's now.
> And Euphoria doesn't even allow to create DLLs!
> And doesn't allow using OCX's!
> If you think DLLs are just insignifanct things, then you don't realise that
> if Windows did not feature DLLs we'd all be working with DOS today!
Considering there are multitasking DOS kernals now (with the equal of DDE, etc),
and
a DLL is little more than a fancy windoze tsr, and tsr's are inherently
reuesable, and i
can write tsrs, i don't see the loss.
Kat
18. Re: Some Euphoria questions
In a message dated 8/18/00 2:37:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gertie at PELL.NET
writes:
<< /me has larger aspirations than mere hobby.
Kat >>
heh... maybe so... lol... but thats you... and by hobby i mean like simple
use, not by some huge company that depends on it for them to succeed 
~bye~
19. Re: Some Euphoria questions
er... sure... whatever... i agree to some point, but again, we're not
companies... <at least not the ones we all have gone to know...> Sure i know
that DLLs are getting old, everything eventually does! OCXs will probably get
old in a year or so [maybe a couple]. And something else will come along and
replace it. Euphoria does have some drawbacks and limitations, but everything
does, and by fixing the problem everything will be great. But of course
something else will come along and complicate it... Maybe so that RDS did
keep the same basic engine from Whenever to now. And they are still fixing
it. Thats fine. I myself have started looking to C/C++ cuz of the limitations
of Euphoria, but i dont think that i'll stop useing it completely anytime
soon... I'll probably only use the C i learn when i need it... And *simple*
programing languages such as Euphoria...
~over and out~
PS: I acually find 'mIRC remote' simpliar than Euphoria and i could find many
ways to make Euphoria much more simple than it is now, and even give it some
greater power maybe [just ideas... not acually making the lang]. But for what
RDS has done, they sure did a good job...
20. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>On 18 Aug 2000, at 18:39, Mike The Spike wrote:
>
><snip (the email, not MTS)>
>
> > In these days DLLs are pass=E9.
> > They all want OCX's now.
> > And Euphoria doesn't even allow to create DLLs!
> > And doesn't allow using OCX's!
> > If you think DLLs are just insignifanct things, then you don't realis=
e
>that
> > if Windows did not feature DLLs we'd all be working with DOS today!
>
>Considering there are multitasking DOS kernals now (with the equal of DD=
E,
>etc), and
>a DLL is little more than a fancy windoze tsr, and tsr's are inherently
>reuesable, and i
>can write tsrs, i don't see the loss.
>
>Kat
Well, as I said, DLLs are old news.
I'm talking about the past.
If MS did not add DLLs to Windows, there'd be no hardware drivers, no API=
s,
etc. Pretty useless OS huh?
We'd all be stuck with something DOS-like.
Or maybe Unix, wich featured shared libraries.
DLLs are old and used very frequently, yet Euphoria restricts DLL usage a=
nd
does not provide DLL creation methods (yet).
If you want to sup at all. What? You think you can't create DLLs using an
interpretter? Yes you can! A DLL is just a program, that program can be a=
n
interpretter, wich has source code bound to it, and expose it's source
programs' internal functions through a calling routine, such as
internal("myfunc",params).
I devised this method many years ago, and it can work pretty damned good!
I even found a way to generate interpretted .obj files using an
interpretter, wich can then be linked into a program! How does this work?
Simple.
The .obj file is the interpretter, and it defines a character string in i=
t's
internal code wich is pretty noticable. For example, "INSERT CODE HERE",
wich then is located by a program, and byte-code data is placed in the .o=
bj
file at the location of that string to represent the program to interpret.
Basically the initial string is over-written. This can even be done by ha=
nd
using a Hex Editor. Now you can link the .obj file into any executable fi=
le,
and it will run the code it finds in that string!
See?
There's no limits to what *I* can do with an interpretter, It's just crap
that RDS did not do these cool things with Euphoria.
DLL generation with the interpretter would take about a day to implement =
+
test, and generating C/C++/ASM object files with the interpretter another
day or so. You'd all be writing DLLs and Object files in Interpretted
Euphoria years ago!
The only problem would be that an object file has a limited amount of
program code it can execute, since
strings are limited in size.
Mike The Spike
PS. Wow! I should work for RDS, cos they'd get rich through me!
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
21. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>er... sure... whatever... i agree to some point, but again, we're not
>companies... <at least not the ones we all have gone to know...> Sure i
>know
>that DLLs are getting old, everything eventually does! OCXs will probably
>get
>old in a year or so [maybe a couple]. And something else will come along
>and
>replace it. Euphoria does have some drawbacks and limitations, but
>everything
>does, and by fixing the problem everything will be great. But of course
>something else will come along and complicate it... Maybe so that RDS did
>keep the same basic engine from Whenever to now. And they are still fixing
>it. Thats fine. I myself have started looking to C/C++ cuz of the
>limitations
>of Euphoria, but i dont think that i'll stop useing it completely anytime
>soon... I'll probably only use the C i learn when i need it... And *simple*
>programing languages such as Euphoria...
Good.
Let everyone know that you won't put up with this bullshit untill they get
their act straight.
Go learn C/C++!
>~over and out~
>PS: I acually find 'mIRC remote' simpliar than Euphoria and i could find
>many
>ways to make Euphoria much more simple than it is now, and even give it
>some
>greater power maybe [just ideas... not acually making the lang]. But for
>what
>RDS has done, they sure did a good job...
Hmm...
Sometimes when you think you're making things simpler, they turn out to
complicate matters further.
Adding 4000 library routines to a language makes work a lot easier, but a
newby coder would be scared off immediatly.
Euphoria is pretty much as easy as it gets, for a C-Clone.
mIRC remote has it's moments, though.
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
22. Re: Some Euphoria questions
On 18 Aug 2000, at 18:56, Mike The Spike wrote:
> > > Hrm... Mike The Spike, understand that everyone that programs in
> >Euphoria is
> > > doing it as a hobby... Once again, we already know that Euphoria wont
> >ever be
> > > the equal C alternative, but just for fun and for minimal personal use,
> >we
> > > find it enough... Who cares about the big companies. If they cant use
> > > Euphoria, no one is forcing them to... Everyone chooses what they wish
> >to do
> > > with there free time, and we choose Euphoria. If you think its a bad
> >choice
> > > then leave and find something else to do with your free time.
> >
> >/me has larger aspirations than mere hobby.
> >
> >Kat
>
> /me wants to know what those are.
<kat> hi Tiggr
<[Tiggr]> hey kat! How are you hon? =(,°¿°,)=
<kat> i'k doing ok
<[Tiggr]> that's nice to hear! :)
<kat> how are you, bot?
<[Tiggr]> i'm doing well :->
<kat> how about a diet coke, tiggr
* [Tiggr] DCC's kat a Diet Coke
<kat> tiggr, what is the weather in Karlskrona?
<[Tiggr]> Currently, as reported at Ronneby, SW.: Last updated Friday, August
18, at
8:41 PM Local Standard Time ( 3:41 PM EDT) : Partly Cloudy Temp: 55F/12C ; Wind:
-
; Dewpoint: 52F/11C ; Rel. Humidity: 90% ; Visibility: not reported ;
Barometer:
29.94inches/76.04cm ; End Of Current Conditions
<[Tiggr]> Forecast: ; last updated Friday, August 18, at 11:50 AM Eastern
Daylight
Time ; TODAY Scattered Showers hi 72F/22C lo 54F/12C ; SAT Scattered Showers
hi 72F/22C lo 54F/12C ; SUN Rain hi 68F/20C lo 52F/11C ; End Of Forecast ; ;
etc, etc
Basic Ai, data retrieval and understanding.
Kat
23. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>On 18 Aug 2000, at 18:56, Mike The Spike wrote:
>
> > > > Hrm... Mike The Spike, understand that everyone that programs in
> > >Euphoria is
> > > > doing it as a hobby... Once again, we already know that Euphoria
>wont
> > >ever be
> > > > the equal C alternative, but just for fun and for minimal persona=
l
>use,
> > >we
> > > > find it enough... Who cares about the big companies. If they cant
>use
> > > > Euphoria, no one is forcing them to... Everyone chooses what they
>wish
> > >to do
> > > > with there free time, and we choose Euphoria. If you think its a =
bad
> > >choice
> > > > then leave and find something else to do with your free time.
> > >
> > >/me has larger aspirations than mere hobby.
> > >
> > >Kat
> >
> > /me wants to know what those are.
>
><kat> hi Tiggr
><[Tiggr]> hey kat! How are you hon? =3D(,=B0=BF=B0,)=3D
><kat> i'k doing ok
><[Tiggr]> that's nice to hear! :)
><kat> how are you, bot?
><[Tiggr]> i'm doing well :->
><kat> how about a diet coke, tiggr
>* [Tiggr] DCC's kat a Diet Coke
><kat> tiggr, what is the weather in Karlskrona?
><[Tiggr]> Currently, as reported at Ronneby, SW.: Last updated Friday,
>August 18, at
>8:41 PM Local Standard Time ( 3:41 PM EDT) : Partly Cloudy Temp: 55F/12C=
;
>Wind: -
> ; Dewpoint: 52F/11C ; Rel. Humidity: 90% ; Visibility: not reported ;
>Barometer:
>29.94inches/76.04cm ; End Of Current Conditions
><[Tiggr]> Forecast: ; last updated Friday, August 18, at 11:50 AM Easte=
rn
>Daylight
>Time ; TODAY Scattered Showers hi 72F/22C lo 54F/12C ; SAT Scattered
>Showers
>hi 72F/22C lo 54F/12C ; SUN Rain hi 68F/20C lo 52F/11C ; End Of Foreca=
st
>; ;
>
>etc, etc
>
>Basic Ai, data retrieval and understanding.
>
>Kat
Holy shit!
If this is AI then damn, you can make a lot of money working for a compan=
y
that's in to this stuff.
Where do you live?
I run a team of AI coders at L&H in Belgium, yet we have many, many, offi=
ces
in the US (Dallas, Jersey, etc.).
You could apply for a job there and I could help you get it.
L&H is the Nr. 1 speech recognition & AI company in the world.
Our latest RealSpeak product, wich is a Text To Speech program, is someti=
mes
even more realistic than a human voice! ;p Even Bill Gates said he liked =
it.
If AI is what you're into, you should give it a try.
It's sad you don't live in Belgium, because I'm experimenting with U4IA++=
at
the office. Some guys are learning it, I designed it with AI coding in mi=
nd
so it's suited perfectly for our needs.
So you could code AI in Euphoria and get payed ;)
Give it a try, AI companies pay lots of money.
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
24. Re: Some Euphoria questions
In a message dated 8/19/00 12:49:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
<< Holy shit!
If this is AI then damn, you can make a lot of money working for a company
that's in to this stuff.
Where do you live?
I run a team of AI coders at L&H in Belgium, yet we have many, many, offices
in the US (Dallas, Jersey, etc.).
You could apply for a job there and I could help you get it.
L&H is the Nr. 1 speech recognition & AI company in the world.
Our latest RealSpeak product, wich is a Text To Speech program, is sometimes
even more realistic than a human voice! ;p Even Bill Gates said he liked it.
If AI is what you're into, you should give it a try.
It's sad you don't live in Belgium, because I'm experimenting with U4IA++ at
the office. Some guys are learning it, I designed it with AI coding in mind
so it's suited perfectly for our needs.
So you could code AI in Euphoria and get payed ;)
Give it a try, AI companies pay lots of money.
Mike The Spike >>
No offence to Kat, Kat has done a great job on Tiggr But alot of pplz can
do something like that Mike... I could... <thinks> heh... maybe i should
apply for a job... LMAO! Too bad i'm too young... But... Like Kat said thats
just Basic AI and data retrevial... AI can get much more intense [but of
course you knew that... right?]
25. Re: Some Euphoria questions
On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> In a message dated 8/19/00 12:49:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
> << Holy shit!
> If this is AI then damn, you can make a lot of money working for a company
> that's in to this stuff.
> Where do you live?
> I run a team of AI coders at L&H in Belgium, yet we have many, many, offices
> in the US (Dallas, Jersey, etc.).
> You could apply for a job there and I could help you get it.
Gee - a reference from MTS ?
Might get you to the head of the line at the Tourette's Treatment Center.
Irv
26. Re: Some Euphoria questions
On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> >On 18 Aug 2000, at 18:56, Mike The Spike wrote:
...
> Our latest RealSpeak product, wich is a Text To Speech program, is sometimes
> even more realistic than a human voice!
How hard could that be? There are only a limited number of four-letter words.
27. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>In a message dated 8/19/00 12:49:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
><< Holy shit!
> If this is AI then damn, you can make a lot of money working for a
>company
> that's in to this stuff.
> Where do you live?
> I run a team of AI coders at L&H in Belgium, yet we have many, many,
>offices
> in the US (Dallas, Jersey, etc.).
> You could apply for a job there and I could help you get it.
> L&H is the Nr. 1 speech recognition & AI company in the world.
> Our latest RealSpeak product, wich is a Text To Speech program, is
>sometimes
> even more realistic than a human voice! ;p Even Bill Gates said he liked
>it.
> If AI is what you're into, you should give it a try.
> It's sad you don't live in Belgium, because I'm experimenting with U4IA++
>at
> the office. Some guys are learning it, I designed it with AI coding in
>mind
> so it's suited perfectly for our needs.
> So you could code AI in Euphoria and get payed ;)
>
> Give it a try, AI companies pay lots of money.
>
>
> Mike The Spike >>
>
>No offence to Kat, Kat has done a great job on Tiggr But alot of pplz
>can
>do something like that Mike... I could... <thinks> heh... maybe i should
>apply for a job... LMAO! Too bad i'm too young... But... Like Kat said
>thats
>just Basic AI and data retrevial... AI can get much more intense [but of
>course you knew that... right?]
Don't act as if you were smart pal, I am giving Kat advice and compliments,
my team has INVENTED AI as we see it tday, allright?
Comprende?
When I say my team, I mean the team wich I run.
Speech recognition was INVENTED by my boss, allright?
Speech recognition = AI.
I see good AI when I see it, and no I can't tell that well from what Kat
posted because I did not see it in action, but it apears to be good.
Not a lot of people do that.
Yet, some do.
You see, those are the people that can apply for an AI job, but I will be
their boss, do you comprehend where one's knowledge of AI ends and mine
starts?
For one, there were some mistakes made here.
There is no "Basic AI".
There is only AI and some crap game programmers throw together and call AI.
Artificial Inteligence is the full name, see where "Inteligence" is located?
The first thing you learn, when you start working on my team, is that there
is no Basic AI or limited AI, there is only AI, or none at all. AI we work
with, includes a 98% accuracy L&H speech recognition system, a 5000 dollar
dialogue engine, and an L&H Text To Speech system to pronounce generated
dialogues. Our systems can hear you, understand you, and talk back to you.
Soon they will even see you. THAT is AI. The richest man in the world
complimented me on my personal work officialy. My knowledge of AI is
recorded in many encyclopedias. Search for Bill Gates and read some of his
quotes.
I'm an excellent AI coder, maybe even the best in the world. I run the most
knowledgable AI team in history. So don't you even think about judging my
knowledge of AI.
Mike The Spike
PS. Kat, good job, despite what the ignorant wich float about here tell you.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
28. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>In a message dated 8/19/00 12:49:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
><< Holy shit!
> If this is AI then damn, you can make a lot of money working for a
>company
> that's in to this stuff.
> Where do you live?
> I run a team of AI coders at L&H in Belgium, yet we have many, many,
>offices
> in the US (Dallas, Jersey, etc.).
> You could apply for a job there and I could help you get it.
> L&H is the Nr. 1 speech recognition & AI company in the world.
> Our latest RealSpeak product, wich is a Text To Speech program, is
>sometimes
> even more realistic than a human voice! ;p Even Bill Gates said he liked
>it.
> If AI is what you're into, you should give it a try.
> It's sad you don't live in Belgium, because I'm experimenting with U4IA++
>at
> the office. Some guys are learning it, I designed it with AI coding in
>mind
> so it's suited perfectly for our needs.
> So you could code AI in Euphoria and get payed ;)
>
> Give it a try, AI companies pay lots of money.
>
>
> Mike The Spike >>
>
>No offence to Kat, Kat has done a great job on Tiggr But alot of pplz
>can
>do something like that Mike... I could... <thinks> heh... maybe i should
>apply for a job... LMAO! Too bad i'm too young... But... Like Kat said
>thats
>just Basic AI and data retrevial... AI can get much more intense [but of
>course you knew that... right?]
Don't act as if you were smart pal, I am giving Kat advice and compliments,
my team has INVENTED AI as we see it today, allright?
Comprende?
When I say my team, I mean the team wich I run.
Speech recognition was INVENTED by my boss, allright?
Speech recognition = AI.
I see good AI when I see it, and no I can't tell that well from what Kat
posted because I did not see it in action, but it appears to be good.
Not a lot of people do that.
Yet, some do.
You see, those are the people that can apply for an AI job, but I will be
their boss, do you comprehend where one's knowledge of AI ends and mine
starts?
For one, there were some mistakes made here.
There is no "Basic AI".
There is only AI and some crap game programmers throw together and call AI.
Artificial Intelligence is the full name, see where "Intelligence" is
located? The first thing you learn, when you start working on my team, is
that there is no Basic AI or limited AI, there is only AI, or none at all.
AI we work with, includes a 98% accuracy L&H speech recognition system, a
5000 dollar dialogue engine, and an L&H Text To Speech system to pronounce
generated dialogues. Our systems can hear you, understand you, and talk back
to you. Soon they will even see you. THAT is AI. The richest man in the
world complimented me on my personal work officially. My knowledge of AI is
recorded in many encyclopedias. Search for Bill Gates and read some of his
quotes.
I'm an excellent AI coder, maybe even the best in the world. I run the most
knowledgeable AI team in history. So don't you even think about judging my
knowledge of AI.
Mike The Spike
PS. Kat, good job, despite what the ignorant wich float about here tell you.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
29. Re: Some Euphoria questions
There, I even sent it twice.
One in formal English and one without attention to spelling.
I don't always do this, but for this post I just felt like sending you
something well written, for it's a post about intelligence ;)
Mike The Spike
>From: Mike The Spike <mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: Euphoria Programming for MS-DOS <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
>To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
>Subject: Re: Some Euphoria questions
>Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 14:53:18 GMT
>
>>In a message dated 8/19/00 12:49:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>>
>><< Holy shit!
>> If this is AI then damn, you can make a lot of money working for a
>>company
>> that's in to this stuff.
>> Where do you live?
>> I run a team of AI coders at L&H in Belgium, yet we have many, many,
>>offices
>> in the US (Dallas, Jersey, etc.).
>> You could apply for a job there and I could help you get it.
>> L&H is the Nr. 1 speech recognition & AI company in the world.
>> Our latest RealSpeak product, wich is a Text To Speech program, is
>>sometimes
>> even more realistic than a human voice! ;p Even Bill Gates said he liked
>>it.
>> If AI is what you're into, you should give it a try.
>> It's sad you don't live in Belgium, because I'm experimenting with
>>U4IA++
>>at
>> the office. Some guys are learning it, I designed it with AI coding in
>>mind
>> so it's suited perfectly for our needs.
>> So you could code AI in Euphoria and get payed ;)
>>
>> Give it a try, AI companies pay lots of money.
>>
>>
>> Mike The Spike >>
>>
>>No offence to Kat, Kat has done a great job on Tiggr But alot of pplz
>>can
>>do something like that Mike... I could... <thinks> heh... maybe i should
>>apply for a job... LMAO! Too bad i'm too young... But... Like Kat said
>>thats
>>just Basic AI and data retrevial... AI can get much more intense [but of
>>course you knew that... right?]
>
>Don't act as if you were smart pal, I am giving Kat advice and compliments,
>my team has INVENTED AI as we see it tday, allright?
>Comprende?
>When I say my team, I mean the team wich I run.
>Speech recognition was INVENTED by my boss, allright?
>Speech recognition = AI.
>I see good AI when I see it, and no I can't tell that well from what Kat
>posted because I did not see it in action, but it apears to be good.
>Not a lot of people do that.
>Yet, some do.
>You see, those are the people that can apply for an AI job, but I will be
>their boss, do you comprehend where one's knowledge of AI ends and mine
>starts?
>
>For one, there were some mistakes made here.
>There is no "Basic AI".
>There is only AI and some crap game programmers throw together and call AI.
>Artificial Inteligence is the full name, see where "Inteligence" is
>located?
>The first thing you learn, when you start working on my team, is that there
>is no Basic AI or limited AI, there is only AI, or none at all. AI we work
>with, includes a 98% accuracy L&H speech recognition system, a 5000 dollar
>dialogue engine, and an L&H Text To Speech system to pronounce generated
>dialogues. Our systems can hear you, understand you, and talk back to you.
>Soon they will even see you. THAT is AI. The richest man in the world
>complimented me on my personal work officialy. My knowledge of AI is
>recorded in many encyclopedias. Search for Bill Gates and read some of his
>quotes.
>I'm an excellent AI coder, maybe even the best in the world. I run the most
>knowledgable AI team in history. So don't you even think about judging my
>knowledge of AI.
>
>
>Mike The Spike
>PS. Kat, good job, despite what the ignorant wich float about here tell
>you.
>________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
30. Re: Some Euphoria questions
In a message dated 8/19/00 10:53:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
<< Don't act as if you were smart pal, I am giving Kat advice and compliments,
my team has INVENTED AI as we see it tday, allright?
Comprende?
When I say my team, I mean the team wich I run.
Speech recognition was INVENTED by my boss, allright?
Speech recognition = AI.
I see good AI when I see it, and no I can't tell that well from what Kat
posted because I did not see it in action, but it apears to be good.
Not a lot of people do that.
Yet, some do.
You see, those are the people that can apply for an AI job, but I will be
their boss, do you comprehend where one's knowledge of AI ends and mine
starts?
For one, there were some mistakes made here.
There is no "Basic AI".
There is only AI and some crap game programmers throw together and call AI.
Artificial Inteligence is the full name, see where "Inteligence" is located?
The first thing you learn, when you start working on my team, is that there
is no Basic AI or limited AI, there is only AI, or none at all. AI we work
with, includes a 98% accuracy L&H speech recognition system, a 5000 dollar
dialogue engine, and an L&H Text To Speech system to pronounce generated
dialogues. Our systems can hear you, understand you, and talk back to you.
Soon they will even see you. THAT is AI. The richest man in the world
complimented me on my personal work officialy. My knowledge of AI is
recorded in many encyclopedias. Search for Bill Gates and read some of his
quotes.
I'm an excellent AI coder, maybe even the best in the world. I run the most
knowledgable AI team in history. So don't you even think about judging my
knowledge of AI.
Mike The Spike
PS. Kat, good job, despite what the ignorant wich float about here tell you.
>>
wtf, are you talking about!? No one is telling Kat anything bad about Tiggr
or anything else Kat does. Tiggr is a great bot, is even a fun one... <alot
funner than some of those other bots> I bet Kat's Euphoria - mIRC is a great
tool <reason why i say 'I bet' is cuz i cant get it to work... same with
EUServ... EU 2.2 had some new things in it...> And i never doubted *your*
knowlege. For all i *care* you could be the smartest person in the world. But
the way you go around flaming other programs for every little tiny problem,
you wont have a very good rep. If you really are a programer of some sort <AI
or whatnot> then you should know that it does take alot of effort and when
someone goes around flaming your effort, how does it feel? See how defensive
you got when you thought your knowlege of AI was being -doubted-? Thats how
some of us feel.
~later~
31. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> > >On 18 Aug 2000, at 18:56, Mike The Spike wrote:
>...
> > Our latest RealSpeak product, wich is a Text To Speech program, is
>sometimes
> > even more realistic than a human voice!
>
>How hard could that be? There are only a limited number of four-letter
>words.
I'm afraid I lost you.
What do you mean "four-letter words"?
We use a 307,000+ word vocabulary for each L&H product.
I won't explain phonetic dialogue emulation techniques, but let me tell y=
ou
something Bill Gates said about our product; "It was the first time I cou=
ld
listen to a computer for more that 3 minutes" - Bill Gates.
How hard could it be you say???
Mike The Spike
PS. "Microsoft is expected to use
L&H=92s continuous voice recognition engine, along with
homegrown technologies, to embed voice interface technology into
the Windows operating system. " - Microsoft Trial
Wow! Looks like I'm going to write part of your OS!
Hehe, try this, this is an online RealSpeak demo. This is the fruit of my
labors. Try it, and start giving me the credit I deserve.
http://www.lhsl.com/realspeak/demo.cfm
Also, if you have any further doubts, sign up as an L&H beta tester, I'll
see fit you get what you deserve. http://www.lhsl.com/voicexpress/beta/
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
32. Re: Some Euphoria questions
In a message dated 8/19/00 10:59:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
<< There, I even sent it twice.
One in formal English and one without attention to spelling.
I don't always do this, but for this post I just felt like sending you
something well written, for it's a post about intelligence ;)
Mike The Spike >>
Well, you didnt do that good a job of fixing your mistakes.
P1: 'were' is in the wrong time state.
'allright' should be 'all right'
P2: 'wich' should be 'which'
Just some simple mistakes that your totally advanced AI should of cuaght...
There were probably a few more of these little mistakes, but i have to go and
test something right now...
~later~
33. Re: Some Euphoria questions
Shit!
Don't even bother to try out that demo link, I see they still have an old
version from '97 installed, that one sounds even worse than my grandma on
LSD!
Anyone that bought VoiceXpress recently will know what I mean when I say it
sounds perfect.
Anyone with the latest Windows 2000/ME build will know what I'm talking
about aswell.
Ah crap, anyone who codes for our SpeechSDK will know aswell.
>From: Irv Mullins <irv at ELLIJAY.COM>
>Reply-To: Euphoria Programming for MS-DOS <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
>To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
>Subject: Re: Some Euphoria questions
>Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 09:58:13 -0400
>
>On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, you wrote:
> > >On 18 Aug 2000, at 18:56, Mike The Spike wrote:
>...
> > Our latest RealSpeak product, wich is a Text To Speech program, is
>sometimes
> > even more realistic than a human voice!
>
>How hard could that be? There are only a limited number of four-letter
>words.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
34. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>Gee - a reference from MTS ?
>Might get you to the head of the line at the Tourette's Treatment Center.
>
>Irv
Actually it could get her assistant manager. It's up to me, realy, who is
hired for the AI department of any L&H complex realy.
Allthough you are required to take a paid 1 year course on L&H technologies
before you can start anywhere.
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
35. Re: Some Euphoria questions
On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Alex wrote to MTS
>And i never doubted *your* knowlege.
You're the only one.
36. Re: Some Euphoria questions
In a message dated 8/19/00 11:58:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, irv at ELLIJAY.COM
writes:
<< You're the only one. >>
huh? I dont get what your trying to say...
37. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>wtf, are you talking about!? No one is telling Kat anything bad about Tiggr
>or anything else Kat does. Tiggr is a great bot, is even a fun one... <alot
>funner than some of those other bots> I bet Kat's Euphoria - mIRC is a
>great
>tool <reason why i say 'I bet' is cuz i cant get it to work... same with
>EUServ... EU 2.2 had some new things in it...> And i never doubted *your*
>knowlege. For all i *care* you could be the smartest person in the world.
>But
>the way you go around flaming other programs for every little tiny problem,
>you wont have a very good rep. If you really are a programer of some sort
><AI
>or whatnot> then you should know that it does take alot of effort and when
>someone goes around flaming your effort, how does it feel? See how
>defensive
>you got when you thought your knowlege of AI was being -doubted-? Thats how
>some of us feel.
>
>~later~
You ain't the first one to doubt my AI skills in the last few days. I'm not
sure why some like to go there, because I don't like bringing bussiness into
private matters. My English being bad, etc. So what?
I speak 15 languages, expect me to be a master in every single one?
Hell no! I don't watch my language in private, because I don't give a fuck
cos, again, no one is paying me for it.
This right here;
>the way you go around flaming other programs for every little tiny problem,
You mean RDS' Euphoria?
I'm not going through this again.
Just do the following;
Read where it says Euphoria is easier and better to use than JAVA, Basic, C,
etc.
Count the number of Euphoria compilers, interpretters, and programmers.
Now do the same for C, Basic, and JAVA.
See what I mean?
Oh but you'll say somthing like "But JAVA is used in Internet Scripts!!
That's why we use it!". Then I'll say: "Exactly.".
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
38. Re: Some Euphoria questions
In a message dated 8/19/00 12:02:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
<< Oh but you'll say somthing like "But JAVA is used in Internet Scripts!!
That's why we use it!". Then I'll say: "Exactly." >>
Acually, i wouldnt say that. I would say that "Java is freakin hard as hell"
but then again, i wasn't too modivated after waiting for the 19mb file to
finish dl... i still have the file so i may go and take another look at it...
oh well...
39. Re: Some Euphoria questions
><< There, I even sent it twice.
> One in formal English and one without attention to spelling.
> I don't always do this, but for this post I just felt like sending you
> something well written, for it's a post about intelligence ;)
>
>
> Mike The Spike >>
>Well, you didnt do that good a job of fixing your mistakes.
>P1: 'were' is in the wrong time state.
> 'allright' should be 'all right'
>P2: 'wich' should be 'which'
>Just some simple mistakes that your totally advanced AI should of cuaght...
>There were probably a few more of these little mistakes, but i have to go
>and
>test something right now...
>
>~later~
Go to Yahoo and type in "wich". Then, type in "allright". Now go tell those
120.000 people they are morons.
Mike The Spike
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
40. Re: Some Euphoria questions
Now now, children, let's not fight. If you can't behave, I'll have to mak=
e each of you stand in a corner and think about what you've done :)
Mike and Alex, for the Invisible Pink Unicorn's (pbuh) sake, you're filli=
ng up my mailbox with this useless bickering about spelling habits and wh=
atnot. I'm sure we can come up with a more constructive and less aggressi=
ve topic, like quilting perhaps.
On second thought, giving sharp objects to either of you might not be a g=
ood idea ;)
Oh yes, and Mike, a question:
What exactly did you mean when you said that you designed U4IA++ with AIs=
in mind? I've been under the impression that languages based on imperati=
ve or messaging paradigms weren't all that practical for AI programming. =
Seems that nowadays most AI people swear by constraint-based (rule-based)=
or functional (not sure about this one though) languages. Prolog and Lis=
p serve as good examples here, methinks.
Throw us a friggin' bone here, the people thirst for knowledge :)
Ob.NotRelatedDrivel:
You speak 15 languages?? Good God. Which ones? If you know any Finnish or=
Basque, give me a yell :)
--Tom "$_=3Dq{$_=3Dq{Q};s/Q/$_/;print};s/Q/$_/;print" Ekl=F6f
Tiesitk=F6 muuten, ett=E4 toga.com nettitavaratalossa pleikkaripelit maks=
avat vain alk.125mk. http://www.sunpoint.net/SunAds/click.htm?mode=3Dfoot=
er&id=3D3&jump=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.toga.com%2Ffi
41. Re: Some Euphoria questions
In a message dated 8/19/00 12:39:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
darkspace at SUNPOINT.NET writes:
<< Now now, children, let's not fight. If you can't behave, I'll have to make
each of you stand in a corner and think about what you've done :)
Mike and Alex, for the Invisible Pink Unicorn's (pbuh) sake, you're filling
up my mailbox with this useless bickering about spelling habits and whatnot.
I'm sure we can come up with a more constructive and less aggressive topic,
like quilting perhaps.
On second thought, giving sharp objects to either of you might not be a good
idea ;)
Oh yes, and Mike, a question:
What exactly did you mean when you said that you designed U4IA++ with AIs in
mind? I've been under the impression that languages based on imperative or
messaging paradigms weren't all that practical for AI programming. Seems that
nowadays most AI people swear by constraint-based (rule-based) or functional
(not sure about this one though) languages. Prolog and Lisp serve as good
examples here, methinks.
Throw us a friggin' bone here, the people thirst for knowledge :)
Ob.NotRelatedDrivel:
You speak 15 languages?? Good God. Which ones? If you know any Finnish or
Basque, give me a yell :)
--Tom "$_=q{$_=q{Q};s/Q/$_/;print};s/Q/$_/;print" Eklöf
Tiesitkö muuten, että toga.com nettitavaratalossa pleikkaripelit maksavat
vain alk.125mk.
w.toga.com%2Ffi >>
okay daddy... j/k lol... I'm okay with sharp objects...
<picks up a knife, accitendly trips and tosses it out the window....>
uh... whoops... hope that doesn't land on anyone... =)
42. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Alex wrote to MTS
>
> >And i never doubted *your* knowlege.
>
>You're the only one.
But then again, there can BE only one.
Mike The Spike
PS. You ever talk like that to me again and I'll break your face.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
43. Re: Some Euphoria questions
>Now now, children, let's not fight. If you can't behave, I'll have to ma=
ke
>each of you stand in a corner and think about what you've done :)
"And in left corner: Heavy Weight-lifting Champion Of The Universe and
beyond: MAAAAAIIIIKKK THE SPAAAAAIIIIKKKEEE!!, and in the left corner...".
See? Won't work.
Oh BTW,
Can there be like, naked chicks, in my corner?
>Mike and Alex, for the Invisible Pink Unicorn's (pbuh) sake, you're fill=
ing
>up my mailbox with this useless bickering about spelling habits and
>whatnot. I'm sure we can come up with a more constructive and less
>aggressive topic, like quilting perhaps.
Picknic Uniform???
>On second thought, giving sharp objects to either of you might not be a
>good idea ;)
Yeah, especially when I'd slice his troath with my toenails...
>Oh yes, and Mike, a question:
>What exactly did you mean when you said that you designed U4IA++ with AI=
s
>in mind? I've been under the impression that languages based on imperati=
ve
>or messaging paradigms weren't all that practical for AI programming. Se=
ems
>that nowadays most AI people swear by constraint-based (rule-based) or
>functional (not sure about this one though) languages. Prolog and Lisp
>serve as good examples here, methinks.
>Throw us a friggin' bone here, the people thirst for knowledge :)
>
>
>Ob.NotRelatedDrivel:
>You speak 15 languages?? Good God. Which ones? If you know any Finnish o=
r
>Basque, give me a yell :)
>
>--Tom "$_=3Dq{$_=3Dq{Q};s/Q/$_/;print};s/Q/$_/;print" Ekl=F6f
>
>
>Tiesitk=F6 muuten, ett=E4 toga.com nettitavaratalossa pleikkaripelit mak=
savat
>vain alk.125mk.
p%3A%2F%2Fwww.toga.com%2Ffi
I shall bestow you with my knowledge, oh puny mortal!
I am Mike, AKA Michael, AKA Beh u' Lah AKA "He Who Is Like God", second n=
ame
Rocco, AKA Son Of The Like-A-Virgin Madonna (see the news? Proof!) AKA "T=
he
Enlightened One", Last name Smith....AKA.....Smeets... AKA.... an old cra=
ppy
dutch name.
Aka, I am "He Who Is Like God The Enlightened One Son Of Madonna....dutch
guy...".
But, notheless, I hold the knowledge of the Universe of Crappulanceses an=
d
Bullshittitis, and will subdue your puny electrical current you call a mi=
nd
and I call toilet seat to my great knowledge of factorial fractal facts o=
f
faqs. (huh?)
In short, I crafted U4IA++ to be a language wich is easy and flexible to
use, multiplatform, fast, Dynamic, and with sup3r l33t h4x0r skilled
datatypes wich are crafted after the human mind and existance.
Sequences, are that last thing I was reffering to.
Plus, a new never-before seen branch is added to this language wich is
the best addition to programming languages since OOP. It is a branch wich=
is
very suitable for implementing Event-Driven (AKA AI) code execution.
Basically, you won't ever have to check the state of an evaluation anymor=
e,
even this is done automagically. That's all I can say about this without
giving away the store to a bunch of people who aren't even customers and
wouldn't give me a dime if they'd get Eternal Life for it back from me.
So, those features suite AI coding, believe me, coding AI in C++ is NOT f=
un,
it is murder.
And, I *speak*...hold on...
* Dutch
* English
* French
* Korean
* Afrikaans
* Latin
* Spanish
* Greek
* German
* Italian
* Japanese
* Chinese
* Hebrew
* Arabic
* Philladelphian ;)
And some others I'm learning (Russian, Swedish, etc.)
Languages are a hobby of mine, actualy.
Programming languages included.
I know 8 programming languages.
(BASICA, QBASIC, C, C++, Euphoria, x86 ASM, VB, U4IA++)
The 3 languages I speak best are Dutch, English and Italian.
I don't write in all of those langugaes listed here, just a few (And how!
I'm writing Philly Junky-Ass Weirdo Trailer Trash style right now! What a=
n
accievement!).
Heh?
So yeah, you can kiss my ring, DAMN IT!
Mike The Spike
J/K :)
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
44. Re: Some Euphoria questions
- Posted by Alex Ford <FFUltimateMaster at CS.COM>
Aug 19, 2000
-
Last edited Aug 20, 2000
In a message dated 8/19/00 9:45:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mikethespike2000 at HOTMAIL.COM writes:
<< "And in left corner: Heavy Weight-lifting Champion Of The Universe and
beyond: MAAAAAIIIIKKK THE SPAAAAAIIIIKKKEEE!!, and in the left corner...".
See? Won't work.
Oh BTW,
Can there be like, naked chicks, in my corner?
>>
er... more confusion brought on by your posts... Are you Maik? or Mike?
~later~
PS: "In the left corner, PRINCE ORION! <alex> Ruler of the Spectral 9 Star
System, and Future ruler of the Universe! Oh, whats this? The wonderful Faye
Wong is walking down the lane to wish him luck..."
