OpenEuphoria

2. Re: Definitive list of Euphoria libraries?

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Feb 11, 2023
• 933 views

This is one of the areas where you're starting to get too far ahead on Exercism compared to where we're at with the stability and lifecycle of Euphoria as a project. We do not have a definitive list of anything because things have been falling apart for the last decade. We need a good package management system and a repository for those packages but most importantly we need package authors and maintainers, and that includes people to build and operate the package system itself.

-Greg

4. Re: Definitive list of Euphoria libraries?

• Posted by Icy_Viking Feb 11, 2023
• 827 views

A pacakage system for Euphoria would be great. I do agree that Euphoria does need help and needs to be overhauled a bit. Even the site(rapideuphoria) needs to be done. Get Euphoria up and current is a big task though. Hopefully 4.2.0 will help some. I was also skimming over the Windows API, I remember there being dicussion of how even Win32lib could use a overhaul too. Something that would work for modern windows. With Windows 10 and beyond, having WSL, it is possible to test for both Windows and Linux. I'm not really familiar with the Linux API at all though. I wouldn't mind starting a new win32lib or at least attempting a package manager for Euphoria.

6. Re: Definitive list of Euphoria libraries?

• Posted by petelomax Feb 11, 2023
• 831 views

There is PCAN for Phix. Should you think it needs improving, there is one person who is ideally suited to improving it. You.

8. Re: Definitive list of Euphoria libraries?

• Posted by ChrisB (moderator) Feb 12, 2023
• 751 views

Yup, good source of archive material and libraries, about 50% of which needs dragging on to eu 4.1. Is however some great stuff there.

One of the problems, as I see it, is there isn't a central library that users can upload to, as well as browse. The old rapideuphoria did this in it's old cumbersome way, but there has never been an agreement or real desire to reproduce this. If only we had a a larger user base.

Cheers

Chris

10. Re: Definitive list of Euphoria libraries?

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Feb 12, 2023
• 723 views

Definitely a Catch-22 problem there. I do want to reproduce The Archive but it has to be done intentionally and not organically as it was. The great thing about The Archive was that anyone could upload their project. The worst thing about The Archive was that anyone could upload their project. We need a baseline template and standard packaging structure to help ensure compatibility and installation on any system. We also need baseline requirements for versioning, unit testing, documentation, etc. And package owners need to be held accountable for the continued upkeep of their projects. If you're providing a wrapper for libfoobar the you'd better be keeping it up to date with libfoobar. And if a package owner can't do that, we need to be able to share ownership so that it can be kept up to date.

-Greg

12. Re: Definitive list of Euphoria libraries?

• Posted by katsmeow Feb 12, 2023
• 712 views

What are the upsides to volunteering here?

I volunteered that "o8.42.0.1 Marchine Level Access Summary" on the website is possibly an error, and this effort wasn't acknowledged or corrected. Etc.

Kat

14. Re: Definitive list of Euphoria libraries?

• Posted by katsmeow Feb 12, 2023
• 690 views

I think that Pete doing it all himself is an instance of amazing drive and dedication. But for OE, to paraphrase your words, it's still 2008.

Oh i agree 100%. It's worse than "not in my back yard", it's "i didn't write it, so it's a no-go at all, period". I wrote three irc.e in attempt to satisfy people, mostly removing features, and none were acceptable. It took a year(?) to get people to realise the original news.e was not running tasks asychronously, despite the obvious that every task always ended in the order they were declared.

If it's that much trouble to edit spelling errors on the official OE website, it's no wonder no one will volunteer anything. Whatever happened to the many website maintainers OE has had since i was last refused for the job?

Kat

16. Re: Definitive list of Euphoria libraries?

• Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Feb 12, 2023
• 675 views

Agreed.

Again, not mine - https://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/137497.wc

Actually, I wouldn't go quite that far. Perhaps this might have been the case back in the closed source days, but since the open sourcing of 3.0 patches and such have easily been accepted into the source. The hard part has been finding volunteers to handle all the steps.

Today it might even be easier. From what I've seen, it's mostly just Greg who has to OK the approach nowadays.

That said, a big part of the problem was myself - I implemented a code freeze on features some time back to get folks wasting time on not-well tested features to instead work on stablizing the code base for a 4.1 release. Instead, these folks mostly left the community and never came back - even after I admitted defeat lifted the freeze with 4.1 still unreleased.

Probably due to a lack of volunteers to perform rigorous and timely testing.

Actually, since the move to the new forum in 2008, we've never had more than two. Only Jeremy and I had direct access to the website on that low level (including the oe.cowgar.com era), then later it was only euphoric and myself, and finally Greg and I.

That said, most of the steps can be done by non maintainers, so there's that.

Actually, the reason for most of this flow (e.g. insisting on a pull request for peer review) is to avoid issues like the one you found. I believe the typos came about during a time where we experimented with looser controls and less review (in an attempt to make it easier for volunteers to contribute). As you can see, it didn't really work out that well.

That said, an aspect of this does ring true - I added contraints with my code freeze. I learned my lesson from that, though.

For most folks who use github to contribute to FOSS, this is actually how one typically does things. The filing of a ticket, managing branches and commits and making and approving pull requests, would all be second nature. Pull Requests and Peer Review also make sure things don't slip in that shouldn't be (in large part helping to deal with the unknown factor of a new volunteer).

Alas, most of the community here isn't familiar with doing things that way, particularly our nondev folks like _tom.

I guess that's the other thing - the reason this is so hard (relatively speaking) is because it's a typo in the manual, which is autogenerated from the source code and then uploaded to the website. So the version of the manual on the website tracks comments in the source code and is not meant to be independently editable.

If it were just a wiki entry, it would have been fixed long ago.

I think Greg is already working on a new version of the forum and so forth, which might make these things easier. (And nowadays it really is just Greg's call for these sort of things.)

And if someone did chime in and say, "Hey, I'd love to fix this but I'm not sure how to get started, can someone point me in the right direction?" then Greg and others would do everything in their power to make sure the person who chimed in could accomplish it.

I think these two are more like independent variables. I've been here almost that long but I don't volunteer much anymore due to my expanding professional commitments and some personal life issues. But Greg and petelomax have both been here longer than I and they've done some amazing things single-handedly.

Hmm. Did you ever apply?

Anyways, for interested folks, I'd say to aim lower first - try to become a dev (even a docs only dev) and submit tickets and pull requests and so forth. Much lower barrier to entry and easier to apply.

My memory on this is very blury but I believe that jeremy_c really wanted to get this in, back in the day. So the dev team probably would have said yes to any version that existed, with a few reasonable conditions (primarily no stealing someone else's copyrighted code and permission to modify irc.e afterwards as new issues needed to be addressed or new features wanted). My vague recollection here is that CoJaBo2 denied that these were acceptable and so no version ever made it to the dev team for consideration.

I should make it clear here that CoJaBo2 was just a standard issue forum member (and a minor at the time) and didn't officially have that veto power. So it's a shame that such requests someone went through CoJaBo2 instead of someone actually on the dev team, like myself or DerekP.

Anyways. So today, you'd just need to get Greg's approval. If that code still existed, he might well happily take the patch as-is, and do the ticket/branch/pull request/approval work himself to get it in.

Again, you already know this, but for others - if someone wants Greg to do a new irc.e from scratch - the issue is that without volunteers it's just one item of a long list of things to do. If nothing else (and unfortunately there's a whole lot else), probably JSON, YAML, etc would need to get done first (so modern web stuff would work).

18. Re: Definitive list of Euphoria libraries?

• Posted by petelomax Feb 13, 2023
• 597 views

Erm, that is precisely what PCAN is meant to be...