1. Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by euphoric (admin) Aug 29, 2018
- 7252 views
It's a great time to be a programmer. There are so many grand options!
Where does OpenEuphoria/Phix fit in the spectrum today?
I'm thinking of Golang, Dart, Ada, PHP, Javascript, Java, Xojo, Julia, but there are worthy others.
Does OpenEuphoria fit somewhere in between? Does it serve as a replacement for any?
Just curious where OpenEuphoria is today. _tom, maybe you could make a chart and plot languages on them.
As axes, we'd want (at least): Productivity/Rapid Development (how easy for programmer to build apps), Speed, and Platforms, although Speed might not be as heavily weighted as the others, simply because today's languages aren't going to be noticeably slow on modern hardware... right? (That's a 3D plot, of course... 
)
We do know that without further development, OpenEuphoria will be relegated to the dust bin of programming languages history.
2. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by ChrisB (moderator) Aug 30, 2018
- 7208 views
Hi
Dont want to be a doom merchant, because Eu is a fantastic language, and will certainly be my goto choice for quick and dirty scripts. But you are right, there are many other choices, and why should anyone put any effort into essentially a niche programming language.
Euphoria has no traction, or marketing / user base like the other languages, like Go and TypeScript, and is not used in a large business environment like Java/Javascript/C# etc. As a novice programmer, why would you choose a programming language that isn't used anywhere, has a small user (but enthusiastic) user base, and whose development is sporadic at best. Java and Javascript are the number one business languages at the moment.
I'll always keep a copy of Phix and Euphoria on my hard drive, and I'm sorry to all the newcomers here, and don't want to discourage them because we all know how great Eu is, just the rest of the world doesn't) but I think Eu is in it's last throes.
I saw a small glimmer of hope recently, the Eu to Java translator - ease of eu, large user base of Java, and access to the massive set of Java libraries, but this looks like a one man effort (Pete).
Sorry.
Chris
3. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by Pirx Aug 30, 2018
- 7216 views
Sad, but true. Without a new release to arrive soon, Euphoria doesn't have a chance to attract new users an will keep loosing the old ones. Phix is still in development, but there are serious issues with it on Linux and its standard library is no match for OpenEuphoria. Don't get me wrong - I don't blame anyone, just stating the fact. I like Euphoria, but, considering its state of development, wouldn't reccomend it to anyone.
4. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by irv Aug 30, 2018
- 7200 views
Depends.
If your goal is to be a cubicle slave, programming for others, then Euphoria isn't even an option. You'll have to use the tools they provide, which only makes sense, since you'll need to be, let's say, "interchangeable" with other programmers. AKA easy to get rid of, so they can hire someone cheaper.
If you are independent, then it works as well as anything else. I've never once had a client ask what programming language I'm going to use, they just have a job that needs to be done - usually 'yesterday' if not sooner - so if I can quickly produce something that works, they're happy. If the solution is also easily maintainable, then I'm happy too. Euphoria often fits those requirements.
If you are just learning to program, then Euphoria is a good starting point. Nobody who is serious about this stops with just one language, after all.
As for making Euphoria 'popular' - forget about it, not going to happen.
5. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by SDPringle Aug 30, 2018
- 7183 views
I am very glad to hear that someone makes money out of using this language. But it is healthy to recognize the lack of popularity and the consequences of that fact.
6. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by Pirx Aug 30, 2018
- 7155 views
I don't think that anyone is expecting Euphoria to become one of the most popular languages and challange Python or JavaScript, but there is a difference between unpopular languages and dead/abandoned ones. There are niche, unpopular languages that are being actively developped. Newlisp, Ring, Pike and many BASIC compilers/interpreters, for example.
7. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by petelomax Aug 30, 2018
- 7189 views
I saw a small glimmer of hope recently, the Eu to Java translator - ease of eu, large user base of Java, and access to the massive set of Java libraries, but this looks like a one man effort (Pete).
Small correction: Javascript, not Java. Sadly not getting anywhere fast.
If you are independent, then it works as well as anything else. If the solution is also easily maintainable, then I'm happy too. Euphoria often fits those requirements.
If you are just learning to program, then Euphoria is a good starting point. Nobody who is serious about this stops with just one language, after all.
I think that's the right attitude.
I like Euphoria, but, considering its state of development, wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
I would obviously recommend Phix, with a suitable qualifier such as "you ain't gonna get a job in it, but..."
As for making Euphoria 'popular' - forget about it, not going to happen.
In related news, Phix now has 764 entries on rosettacode, now ranked 20th, (or 19th, which for some reason omits Kotlin), which is traction of sorts. Getting further up that list is now my main (pointless) little hobby.
Pete
PS: Crikey, it was only Mar 15, 2017 when Phix broke 500 entries on roesettacode, been wasting my time most efficiently it seems 
8. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by ghaberek (admin) Aug 30, 2018
- 7158 views
I think one area where Euphoria could really shine is in the web space. This is an area that is more popular now than ever. Euphoria could compete with the likes of Ruby, Node.js, and .NET Core for the web application space.
I'm about 60% complete on an MVC framework for Euphoria, which I plan to use it to rewrite this website.
This includes:
- template parser
- JSON library
- database connectors (MySQL/Postgres/SQLite)
- data abstraction models
- dynamic application routing
- easy request/reply CGI handlers
Possible uses for this:
- websites, small-to-large
- a RESTful API service
- web front-end to a back-end service
Currently it just runs in "CGI mode" where each web request fires off the interpreter in the web server, but I'm also working on a "service mode" where requests are routed from the web server to a live backend that is always on.
I can post post the mostly-working-but-incomplete code soon if others would be interested in contributing*, otherwise it will go live once I have a "minimum viable product" running.
*The biggest problem we have right now is a lot of end-user programmers as opposed to contributors to Euphoria itself. I really could use some help with this to see it thrive.
-Greg
9. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by begin Aug 30, 2018
- 7154 views
I think one area where Euphoria could really shine is in the web space. This is an area that is more popular now than ever. Euphoria could compete with the likes of Ruby, Node.js, and .NET Core for the web application space.
I'm about 60% complete on an MVC framework for Euphoria, which I plan to use it to rewrite this website.
This includes:
- template parser
- JSON library
- database connectors (MySQL/Postgres/SQLite)
- data abstraction models
- dynamic application routing
- easy request/reply CGI handlers
Possible uses for this:
- websites, small-to-large
- a RESTful API service
- web front-end to a back-end service
Currently it just runs in "CGI mode" where each web request fires off the interpreter in the web server, but I'm also working on a "service mode" where requests are routed from the web server to a live backend that is always on.
I can post post the mostly-working-but-incomplete code soon if others would be interested in contributing*, otherwise it will go live once I have a "minimum viable product" running.
*The biggest problem we have right now is a lot of end-user programmers as opposed to contributors to Euphoria itself. I really could use some help with this to see it thrive.
-Greg
this sounds really exciting.
where does the language fit?
i keep phix on my HD and i use it for my programming. in the last 3 month i could get 2 other programmers to use it regularly. One dumped d-language for it and the other pascal. its quick, its easy and proggies are really build fast with a nice gui.
when is the next version of phix released? richard
10. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by petelomax Aug 31, 2018
- 7099 views
In the last 3 month I could get 2 other programmers to use it regularly. One dumped d-language for it and the other pascal. its quick, its easy and proggies are really build fast with a nice gui.
Nice to know, thanks
when is the next version of phix released?
Hopefully not too long. I would probably have shipped one already if only I wasn't so ashamed of zero movement on linux...
Pete
11. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by begin Aug 31, 2018
- 7058 views
Niklaus Wirth did it correct - keep it simple. where do you find that these days? - phix
12. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by CraigWelch May 24, 2019
- 6595 views
I think one area where Euphoria could really shine is in the web space.
Indeed. All of my programming uses Euphoria, with a browser as the GUI, Javascript and AJAX, Euphoria doing the CGI and database stuff. They mesh perfectly.
13. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by ghaberek (admin) May 24, 2019
- 6607 views
Indeed. All of my programming uses Euphoria, with a browser as the GUI, Javascript and AJAX, Euphoria doing the CGI and database stuff. They mesh perfectly.
You might be interested in my Euphoria MVC project then.
https://github.com/OpenEuphoria/euphoria-mvc/
The goal is to have a simple and modular framework to quickly spin up CGI/database web applications.
-Greg
14. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by CraigWelch May 25, 2019
- 6458 views
Thanks Greg, that looks very useful.
I'll follow it with interest.
15. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by begin May 25, 2019
- 6470 views
well, i don't know where it fits exactly, but i/we use it a lot. lately an apprentice in the company i work in, was enticed to use it too. what are we using it for? well we test our c# programs with it. it is faster to write quick tests with it (phix) and installer scripts then with anything else. after interpretative tests, you can even compile an hand out an exe - that is absolutely great.
what do i use it for? statistics, graphics, crypto (crytosyspki), pdf, mariadb and a meta-compiler using the interfaces i shared here.
what is missing to our now 4 people phix'sers?
Webservices, soap, some win32 interface.
what do we wish for most?
more frequent releases
for language extensions?
some kind of struct, that can contain sequences, objects ... an an easy way to access those.
there is nothing, one can't do with phix, somethings could/should maybe easier (structs).
Pete thanks for that wonderful tool.
16. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by CraigWelch May 26, 2019
- 6326 views
Webservices, soap, some win32 interface.
I use SOAP every day, to pull financial information. I wrote about it some time ago.
17. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by Icy_Viking May 26, 2019
- 6305 views
I use Euphoria all the time. It's my favorite programming language. Its easier to use most other languages and you can use it for almost anything you do with any other programming language. Plus you can wrap a lot of other libraries to give Euphoria even more functionality when you need it. Also, wrapping libraries in Euphoria is a lot easier than any other language too. If Euphoria had a struct and was able to wrap Cplusplus libraries easier then C libraries, then Euphoria would be even more useful.
18. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by petelomax May 27, 2019
- 6229 views
what is missing to our now 4 people phix'sers?
Webservices, soap, some win32 interface.
Sounds like that could be done with libcurl.
what do we wish for most?
more frequent releases
for language extensions?
some kind of struct, that can contain sequences, objects ... an an easy way to access those.
there is nothing, one can't do with phix, somethings could/should maybe easier (structs).
Well, I am available for hire, maybe you could have a quiet word with your boss, a support contract and/or a little part-time work might motivate me..
Should you want to contact me in private, the following should be good for the next five days
printf(1,"%s\n",{sq_xor_bits("grcr{xzvoWnzv~{9txz",floor((date()[8]-3)/6)-1)})
(yeah, I know, I am not a complete idiot, parts of me are missing!)
Pete thanks for that wonderful tool.
Glad someone likes it, thanks.
Pete
19. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by begin Jun 15, 2019
- 5762 views
Hallo Pete, I did talk to our management for the extension of phix with structures and some payment for it, but that turned out to be a real mistake. The company policy of the larger headquarters is to use c#. We may use phix now only, if we don’t talk about it, so to mean secretly. What a bummer. Well at least we gave it a try. I still think you should extend the language with structs. Richard
20. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by petelomax Jun 15, 2019
- 5758 views
Hallo Pete, I did talk to our management for the extension of phix with structures and some payment for it, but that turned out to be a real mistake. The company policy of the larger headquarters is to use c#. We may use phix now only, if we don’t talk about it, so to mean secretly. What a bummer. Well at least we gave it a try. I still think you should extend the language with structs. Richard
Thanks for trying!
I'll have another think about structs hopefully next week, and probably start a new thread to (re-)discuss it.
21. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by irv Jun 15, 2019
- 5731 views
Hallo Pete, I did talk to our management for the extension of phix with structures and some payment for it, but that turned out to be a real mistake. The company policy of the larger headquarters is to use c#. We may use phix now only, if we don’t talk about it, so to mean secretly. What a bummer. Well at least we gave it a try. I still think you should extend the language with structs. Richard
I'm sure you know that the reason for requiring the use of C# is so programmers are "interchangeable" i.e. replaceable with a newer, cheaper model.
That's sad, but that's what happens when the bean-counters are allowed to run things.
I'm just glad that I retired while companies (the one I worked for, at least) showed some loyalty to their employees. They would send an employee whose job was redundant back to school, paying the tuition, to train for another job with the company. That's how I got into programming.
22. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by begin Jun 15, 2019
- 5719 views
well, here they call them pea counters - and yes thats what they.
I still have a long way to go until i can retire, so i am kind of jealous.
i will keep to use Phix without talking about it and avoid the next set of hot ears.
23. Re: Where Does OpenEuphoria Fit Today
- Posted by begin Jun 15, 2019
- 5730 views
Hallo Pete, I did talk to our management for the extension of phix with structures and some payment for it, but that turned out to be a real mistake. The company policy of the larger headquarters is to use c#. We may use phix now only, if we don’t talk about it, so to mean secretly. What a bummer. Well at least we gave it a try. I still think you should extend the language with structs. Richard
Thanks for trying!
I'll have another think about structs hopefully next week, and probably start a new thread to (re-)discuss it.
I was hoping for a different outcome.
that you will go for so structs is just wonderful and will make the language a lot more structured.
Thanks Pete
