OpenEuphoria

2. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by xecronix Oct 14, 2015
• 9548 views

I like to use either WEE or Geany. If you decide to go the Geany route, there is a syntax file I can provide.

-xecronix

4. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by ChrisB (moderator) Oct 14, 2015
• 9484 views

Hi

An official IDE would require committing to an official toolkit......

Cross platform toolkits - wxEu and eugtk.

Chris

6. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by _tom (admin) Oct 14, 2015
• 9439 views

Ok, I vote for multiplatform euIUP. So if xecronix votes the same way the problem is "solved."

Find euIUP http://jeremy.cowgar.com/euiup/.

I have respect fo Jeremy Cowgar's intuition. The GUI is small (under 3MB) and fits well with Euphoria thinking. IUP does not need a IDE because you can learn to put things into boxes that resize themselves.

It is enough to get users quickly writing programs. Once hooked, they can move to larger libraries.

This will make documenting Euphoria much easier.

When Redy works on Linux we can promote it as a standard GUI.

_tom

8. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by xecronix Oct 14, 2015
• 9427 views

Correct. If the community appointed/elected you, me and one other person as arbitrator on this topic and the 2 of us decided IUP was the way to go, then yes... problem solved and IUP would be bundled with OpenEuphoria. And, BTW, I agree that IUP deserves consideration in the matter.

The truth is, all of the toolkits mentioned so far in this thread deserves consideration. As do the notions that the right solution hasn't been written yet or that there is no solution.

So if arbitrators were appointed/elected their job would be:

• Come up with a list of problems that are solved by having a toolkit and/or IDE included with OpenEuphoria. This will require community input.
• Compare the available options to see how they can help solve these problems.
• Consider what new problems the solution causes.
• Pick a solution

There is a lot of merit to this approach. I'm not sure I agree with you on this matter but I'm still open to the idea. I like to think that Lazarus is a fine benchmark in which to compare OpenEuphoria. In my mind, most of the problems we would consider solved by an official toolkit/ide were solved by Lazarus. But Lazarus is *NOT* the official IDE of Freepascal. I would argue that Freepascal does not have an official IDE. Rather Freepascal is the official compiler for Lazarus. This I believe supports your opinion.

On the other hand, nearly all of OpenEuphoria counter-parts have toolkits wrapped up and included with the base distribution.

• Freepascal -GTK and Win32
• Freebasic - GTK and Win32
• Python - TK
• Perl - TK
• Ruby - TK
• Java - Swing/AWT

That is not to say other toolkits don't exist for these languages. Of course they do. But this gives us an idea of what they ship with. I believe the inclusion of a toolkit helps lower the barrier to entry for newcomers and promotes early adoption of the language for them.

Python actually ships with an "IDE" too. Though I never use idle. Euphoria ships with ed. So the idea of shipping with an IDE is not foreign to Euphoria. Though it may be time for an upgrade.

10. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by VirtualB Oct 15, 2015
• 9334 views

I completely agree with this. I am certainly one who sees a lot of value in having a tool that will allow me to quickly and easily design a GUI. I'm sure that not everyone will agree with this, but I feel that having to hand code my GUI is a waste of time and effort when a tool could do it for me. It seems to me that this type of thinking is why there are high-level languages, such as Euphoria, as well as editors with code coloring and completion.

I realize that I've been away for a long time, and I don't really know how things are done here, or even who's in charge of running openEuphoria, but it's hard for me to believe (and this isn't a dig at anyone) that things haven't progressed in this area. In my opinion, Eu is an incredible language that should be right up there with the best of them, but I have to think that you're losing many many potential users because of the degree of difficulty in getting it to work. To me, it's like marketing a car with lots of power, great mpg, and a ton of built-in features, but telling the potential buyer that he or she has to go find the wheels, the gas tank and the engine in different places, then find a way to put them together. If new users didn't have to deal with this type of thing, I think Euphoria would spread like wildfire.

12. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by euphoric (admin) Oct 15, 2015
• 9302 views

Make it so.

14. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by xecronix Oct 15, 2015
• 9347 views

EuVide

I looked at EuVide project page. It appears that the project was written/lead by a team of 3 people. This is a funny coincidence.

Who lead EuVide

I don't know what the product looks like, how good it is/isn't or any thing else about it really. It only runs on Windows (which I don't have) and there are no screen shots to show off the features.

WxIDE

Similarly, I don't know much about wxIDE because I can't find many screen shots for that IDE either. Maybe it's good? I typically have trouble with wx in general but, if there were compelling screen shots maybe I'd try harder. It seems to have been last updated 2 1/2 years ago. Is it still a viable option?

I did find one screen shot for wxIDE.

• Forum thread with screen shot.

Redy

This is another Windows only solution at the moment. However, after examining the project, it looks like it would not take a lot of work to get it to run on top of GTK. About 20 functions would would need to implemented... I think. However, that is not inline with what ryanj has in mind for his project. Additionally, if the screen shots are up to date, the code editor is not as advanced as some of the other options yet.

That said, I feel like this project is a GREAT start to what could eventually be for OpenEuphoria what Lazarus is for Freepascal. Though again, not really a goal for the project.

IUP

If an IDE were started using IUP, this could also be of significant advantage to OpenEuphoria. This toolkit really has some huge advantages over some of the other options. The biggest one is it's small size. This means that a very lite weight dll could be provided with OpenEuphoria that would guarantee that "things" written using IUP would run on the target machine. Additionally, the IUP license makes it easy to do just that.

Sadly, I don't know of a single project ever written using IUP and OpenEuphoria. So, I have nothing to study to base any claims of suitability. If someone knows of any, I'd be happy to look at them.

GTK

Today, WEE + Glade offers the only cross-platform OpenEuphoria GUI, drag and drop IDE solution that I'm aware of. You can swap out WEE for your favorite text editor but, WEE does offer some OpenEuphoria features not found elsewhere.

Unfortunately, Windows users claim that it is difficult to get GTK to run. This sounds like a packaging and education problem to me but I'm not in a position that I can help out with these issues. Except to say, Dia and Geany both easily installed on Windows the last time I tried. Maybe things have changed since my Windows XP days some years ago.

I'm not sure that EuGTK actually has a hosted project repository. (like github, sourceforge, scm.openeuphoria.org, anything really). If that statement is true, I consider that a strike against GTK.

For what it's worth

That's how I see the state of these things now. Where do we go from here? Well that's up to the individuals that make up this community. Options:

• Lone Wolf - Someone could attempt to build OpenEuphoria Lazarus like project.
• Strike team - A few volunteers can work on a solution together.
• Ignore - Maybe it's not an OpenEuphoria problem at all. Rather a problem that only exists in the users space?
• Fragment - Several Lone Wolves can attempt to create a solution
• Converge - The entire community could pick one solution to converge on for a week or so. If that goes well, maybe converge on a project again sometime in the future.

Forked into: Porting Redy to linux

16. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by ChrisB (moderator) Oct 16, 2015
• 9240 views

+1 from me

Chris

18. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by _tom (admin) Oct 16, 2015
• 9193 views

I am willing to work on the committee. I am also willing to make room for anyone who has better technical ability.

From 17 Oct to 25 Oct I will not have internet access (it's going to be a 40 km bike ride to access a hamburger internet link.)

Consider this a formal request for committee members. Contact us on the forum, or use "Misc Menu|Contact Admin" to contact _tom or all administrators directly.

Long enough to come up with a reasoned choice. Even a final coin toss would be progress in solving a decade old issue.

Since the Euphoria language itself will not be impacted, any GUI choices now can always evolve to better choices. The important thing now is to just get started.

The openEuphoria project lacks a dictator (even a benevolent one); that is one reason why it seems that progress is slow. This is also a strength because everyone's opinions do count.

_tom

20. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by xecronix Oct 16, 2015
• 9212 views

Thank you! And I accept.

22. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by petelomax Oct 18, 2015
• 9147 views

OK, I'm on board with the idea of adopting IUP as the cross platform gui of choice.

To be honest I am very annoyed with myself for not trying it before, as it is quite short and sweet.

I got it to work on Phix, apart from 1) a bug in (my) call back handler exposed by cbtest, 2) pplot doing nowt, and 3) euchat being a non-starter for me because Phix has neither sockets nor regular expressions, but 6 other demos are running just fine.

To achieve that, I had to curb the excessive use of namespaces and gratuitous builtin overrides - while iup:open might look nice and clever to you, IMO it /*will*/ clobber some open that has been working fine for years, so it is IupOpen now [==C].
I merged the includes into a single iup.e file, as the quickest way to ensure removal of any duplicates/overrides; that can be undone later if there really is any need to do so. Combined it is still shy of 5000 lines, and I'd like to keep it that way.

I downloaded the latest iup.chm and cd.chm files, only to find that neither has an index ;-(
I have managed to unpack and rebuild them, and started the slow process of creating all the index entries.
I plan to rename all the Eu wrapper functions to match the C names, to help integration with Edita. I have also renamed all of the c_func/proc constants from hXXX to xXXX because that is another Edita/Help thing, and it should not matter anyway.
Yesterday I managed to index 94 entries and integrate them into the Edita help system (so that F1 jumps right to the docs), but there may be as many as 1100 more, so I'd have to chip away at that as time allows.

I have added error handling when the dlls cannot be opened, changed the version to "3.3.0p1", fixed a handful of free(0), as that's an error in Phix, and a couple of "probable logic errors": get_string_array/elsif sequence(classname) and iup_append/elsif sequence(child).

Unfortunately there is a bug in Phix regarding switch with fallthru, whereby it makes a mess of optimising the jump table, and may take me some time to figure out a proper fix, so for now IupGetParam (was get_param) has to do things longhand.
cdCanvasVertex (was canvas_vertex) was using hCd, not the hCdCanvas parameter (fixed)
canvas_put_image_rect_rgba was using xcdCanvasPutImageRectRGB not xcdCanvasPutImageRectRGBA (fixed)
init_bitmap is not using xcdInitBitmapMAP (still outstanding)
rgb_2_map does not use the rgb parameter (still outstanding)

I would be happy to serve on the "iup comittee", as long as it is understood my primary focus is on Phix, with getting the same stuff to run seamlessly on OpenEuphoria an important but secondary goal.

First things first though, obviously I need to fix the bugs just found, then port a few programs to iup, maybe try to cobble up a starter IDE, all before any final decision.

Pete

24. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Oct 18, 2015
• 9124 views

The decision is not up to me, but I think it makes sense for both OE and Phix to standardize on the same GUI/API.

26. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by xecronix Oct 19, 2015
• 9101 views

Oh... Wait. Greg has just created a new IUP wrapper and a program that can help automate the process of keeping an IUP wrapper up to date. This may not be an issue anymore.

And Greg has created a WEE clone using the new IUP wrapper. And it looks great! Follow this thread for more details.

This may still be a problem though. Do we have anyone using OS X that can verify that this is or isn't a problem? I would also consider Raspberry Pi potentially problematic but I can look at setting up IUP and the Euphoria Editor Greg wrote on the Pi tonight. If I get it working I'll create a package for it. This is exciting!

28. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Oct 19, 2015
• 9131 views

Yuk. That's not going to go over well. There is a GTK+ Download: Mac OS X page. Maybe that would help?

Neat! But we will need the IM and CD libraries to use the more advanced IUP controls.

-Greg

30. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by xecronix Oct 19, 2015
• 9067 views

This may help. http://webserver2.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/en/building.html Pay close attention to the directory structure and the order you need to do things.

Schweet!

32. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by xecronix Oct 20, 2015
• 9006 views

A couple of days in and this where we are now.

• What toolkit to include with OpenEuphoira? TODO
• What IDE should be included with OpenEuphoria? At this point, is it fair to say that the IDE included with OpenEuphoria should be something like The Euphoria Editor or WEE?
• How to make sure that the official toolkit and IDE will work on each platform it's is installed on? TODO
• Come up with a list of problems that are solved by having a toolkit and/or IDE included with OpenEuphoria. TODO: The reason for this list of problems is so that we know when/if we have a complete solution. This list should be driven by community input.
• Compare the available options to see how they can help solve these problems. TODO
• Consider what new problems the solution causes. TODO: The most likely problems will include multi-platform deployment of the solution and maintainers for both code and packaging.
• Pick a solution. TODO: But an early front runner is IUP and The Euphoria Editor

Forked into: What problems does an Official IDE or Toolkit solve?

34. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Oct 20, 2015
• 8984 views

I agree 100%. When last we spoke you were working on an wrapper generator for wxWidgets. I'm all for that, but I've been down that road several times before and I always get lost. Conversely, I was able to write a complete wrapper generator for IUP in a few hours over a couple of days. That gave me the complete IUP library in its native API (as opposed to Jeremy's version) which allowed me to follow the documentation nearly verbatim to get The Euphoria Editor started in a few days.

My wrapper for IUP adds this neat little function:

public function Icallback( sequence name, atom rid = routine_id(name) ) 
    return call_back( rid ) 
end function 

So I can easily do things like this in my code:

function action_cb( atom self ) 
 
    return IUP_DEFAULT 
end function 
 
IupSetCallback( button, "ACTION", Icallback("action_cb") ) 

Is that easy or what? I learned a while ago that when routine_id() is called as a part of a default parameter, it runs in the caller's scope, so that it returns the expected result at the point of the call.

-Greg

36. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by dcuny Oct 20, 2015
• 8916 views

This also confuses me:

public function Icallback( sequence name, atom rid = routine_id(name) ) 
    return call_back( rid ) 
end function 

From your example, it looks like you can not only do an assignment to a non-constant value, but you can pass one of the parameter values.

Where is this in the manual defined? The manual says:

PROCDECLARE ==: [SCOPETYPE] 'procedure' IDENTIFIER '(' [PARMLIST] ')' [STMTBLK] 'end' 'procedure' 
PARMLIST ==: PARAMETER [',' PARMLIST] 
PARAMETER ==: DATATYPE IDENTIFER 

Maybe it's just that my Google-fu skills are lacking, but I can't find any mention default parameter values in the on-line manual.

There are some examples where they are used, but that's not quite the same.

- David

Forked into: routine_id scope

38. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by elias_maluko Oct 20, 2015
• 8938 views

What if, instead of adopt an external API we create a backend agnostic high level euphoria GUI API? If it use IUP, WXWidgets, QT etc under the hood, it dont matter. The API will be the same, and controled by us, the euphoria guys. No need to check docs in alien languages.

An example is Bacon's Basic Converter HUG (High Level Universal Gui) - http://www.basic-converter.org/hugdoc.html and freepascal's Lazarus, but this last is too big, many man years. We could have a high level sound API too. The way it interacts with OS (via bundled libs, SDL, SFML, OPENAL etc) dont matter and is totaly transparent.

sorry my bad english ;)

40. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Oct 20, 2015
• 8924 views

But isn't that what IUP, wxWidgets, and QT already provide? They're abstracting the native GUI for each platform (Win32, GTK+, Cocoa, Motif, etc.) so that the programmer only has to deal with a single cross-platform interface. Abstracting these toolkits into a single unified toolkit seems redundant to me.

-Greg

42. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by dcuny Oct 20, 2015
• 8899 views

Ooops. Forgot I always used UPX.

- David

44. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by elias_maluko Oct 20, 2015
• 8921 views

Sure. But wrap giant libraries like WxWidgets or QT, provide documentation and keep it updated seems harder than create a simple High level API (look the link of HUG). Provide a 1 to 1 wrap (c/cplusplus to euphoria) and wait the euphoria programmer look for documentation in a C manual is not a wise option to me.

46. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by elias_maluko Oct 21, 2015
• 8840 views

That's why its important to provide a simple primitive base component (like a canvas) that can be used to render custom components.

The web itself provides the biggest write once run anywhere. We use buttons, labels, write texts in forms, watch video, and nobody complain that the gui dont looks like native. The problem here is the bad looking (and half implemented) controls provided by non native guis. Look at old TCL/TK guis, Swing Gui with Metal look and feel, FLTK and Fox Toolkit. All provide that ugly dated look and very fell customization options. Thats why i said once to Ryan that he should team with a designer to provide the look and feel for Redy. Maybe we, the programmers dont see, but programmer's art (in general) is ugly ;)

I believe that happened because that was not bundled with python. Even today the python guys prefer TK because its the default bundled GUI for python.

I think Ryan is drawing the components by itself, not relying on wrapped external controls.

Your welcome

48. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by dcuny Oct 21, 2015
• 8788 views

That's where the IDE comes in. If you've got type declarations, your IDE can pop up intellisense hints.

- David

50. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by ryanj Oct 22, 2015
• 8744 views

I felt that it was necessary to create widgets from scratch for several reasons, which is perhaps a discussion for another time. Because i wanted to focus on finishing all the API and functionality, i had to use very basic drawing code for now. It is really easy to draw filled rectangles with lines for highlights and shadows. Besides, i like the simple boxy 3D look. Much of my gui design has been influenced by Geoworks Ensemble from the '90s, which in my opinion was an amazing design (both visual style and behavior).

I do like some of the themes i have seen on linux, with round corners, soft edges, and gradients. I plan to add a theme engine to try different styles, but i need a much better graphics library first.

I do find it quite annoying when programs used half-baked gui libraries that don't behave as expected, like when you hit tab and it doesn't go to the next textbox. My intention is for Redy to follow basic standards, while allowing room to innovate new ideas. I fully intend for Redy to have features that a professional gui is expected to have:

• Obey regional settings and user preferences (font and dpi settings, date/time format, color schemes, unicode, ltr or rtl languages, etc.)
• Look and feel that is close enough to native to not annoy people
• Full keyboard navigation and control (tab focus, alt/ctrl key combos, function keys, etc.)
• Layout that works well on any resolution
• User-customize-able layout for toolbars and panels
• Complete set of tool button icons
• Full multi-monitor support
• Drag-and-drop, clipboard support, and undo

52. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by _tom (admin) Dec 03, 2015
• 7952 views

I say we go with "Iup for Euphoria." It is multi-platform and available today.

When someone shows me a more elegant solution I will endorse it.

_tom

54. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by _tom (admin) Dec 03, 2015
• 7938 views

horse + donkey = mule 

It follows that

Microsoft + Linux + OS X = ? 

You can not please anyone with a multi-platform gui it seems.

Is IUP simpler than wxWidgets? An opinion from the wxWidget maintainers would help. Can "IUP for Euphoria" be wrapped to look more like EuIUP? (Note that EuIUP is no longer being maintained.)

My learning curve for IUP so far is steep. I have simple things working but not the fancy stuff. "Iup for Euphoria" is a valuable addition to Euphoria worthy of promotion even if it doesn't become the "official" toolkit.

_tom

56. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by jmduro Dec 03, 2015
• 7964 views

I made a proposal for IupGetParam here: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/129127.wc

Jean-Marc

58. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Dec 07, 2015
• 7910 views

I completely missed Tom's post from the other day. Probably because I had responded to Jean-Marc at the nearly same time. So here are my responses.

I would agree that one cannot have great multi-platform GUI toolkit. You can have something that's good enough or something that is native to that platform. wxWidgets sure gets close but even then there are some things that are out of place because they are non-native implementations.

IUP is a great deal simpler than wxWidgets. There is a decent comparison for this on the IUP page here: http://webserver2.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/en/toolkits.html

The primary difference is that IUP is simply a GUI toolkit, whereas wxWidgets is more like a development platform similar to Microsoft .NET. wxWidgets has additional libraries and classes for other functions like networking, document/view framework, console applications, etc. IUP is just a means to add a GUI to your application.

The number one thing I like about IUP over wxWidgets is that IUP is written in C and can be interfaced directly with Euphoria. Since wxWidgets is written in C++, we need the "shim" library that wxEuphoria provides.

I do not know if there is much value to be added with converting the entire API for IUP into EuIUP style. I think the existing API is already quite Euphoria-like and not all that different from Win32Lib or wxEuphoria. The only difference is that there's no central create() routine and instead there are separate routines to create each type of control separately. Almost everything else is handled through the IupGet/SetAttribute() functions.

After playing with IUP for a few months now, I can say that I do not think the learning curve for it is all that steep. I think that once you "get it" and start to think in terms of how IUP works, it becomes a snap to throw a quick GUI together without much effort. You can get a lot done just by consulting the documentation and sample files provided by the IUP project. This is why I have been insisting on keeping the API as-is: it makes the learning curve much easier for the user.

The main idea to keep in mind is that there isn't a lot of "fancy stuff" to get working. IUP is very, very simple. It doesn't even have a ListView control!

http://lists.luaforge.net/pipermail/iup-mail/2007-October/000070.html

Antonio Scuri scuri at tecgraf.puc-rio.br 
Thu Oct 4 11:59:28 GMT+3 2007 
 
 Hi, 
 
 We do not have ListView control yet. We are working on version 3.0 with 
several new and probably in 3.1 there will be a native ListView. 
 
 But we have IupMatrix that can do what you need, except to show an image in 
the cell. To do that you have to use the DRAW_CB callback and draw the image 
using the CD library.  
 
Best Regards, 
Antonio Scuri 
 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jeremy Cowgar [mailto:jeremy at cowgar.com]  
> Sent: quinta-feira, 4 de outubro de 2007 03:02 
> To: iup at tecgraf.puc-rio.br 
> Subject: ListView Control? 
>  
> Is there a list view control for Iup? I've played with it now  
> for a few hours and I think it's just what I am looking for,  
> except, I cannot find a ListView control. I see the ListBox  
> and the Grid controls, but what I am speaking of is something  
> like a multicolumn listbox. For instance, the list view on an  
> email client that shows the message date, title, from, status, etc... 
>  
> Thanks for any input! 
>  
> Jeremy 
> 

Version 3.17 came out last week and there's still no ListView control to speak of. But they did fix my tab-closing issue in GTK!

If I have to call it now, I will put it this way:

This is all, of course, a work in progress. We have a lot of converted samples and a primary flagship application to demonstrate the usage of IUP in Euphoria. I need to work on the documentation as well. Not sure if we can automate that without relying too heavily on the source code. The include headers do not provide any documentation. It's all provided in the source code and then pulled out with Doxygen. I may take a similar approach to wxEuphoria but that will require rewriting my automated wrapper, but that probably needs to get done anyway.

-Greg

60. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Dec 07, 2015
• 7766 views

Well I guess one of us actually has to actually say one way or the other, don't we?

That being said, the work to provide IUP for Euphoria is not complete but continues to make progress.

-Greg

62. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by xecronix Dec 09, 2015
• 7755 views

Andreas, these are very good questions. But first let me preface the rest of this response by saying thanks to Greg who has worked very hard to provide an excellent wrapper and GUI programming option to OE. In addition to providing a wrapper the IDE he's been working on is coming along nicely. These should be exciting times for OE in the near future.

In my opinion, the committee has failed though. While an official GUI was stated earlier this week, there has been no discussions on how to integrate the project with OE. In fact, what was accomplished is the creation of another dll/wrapper that exists in the community user space. While this by it's self isn't a bad thing, my hopes were that we would have discussed at least some of the obvious concerns such as distribution and keeping true to some of the other OE goals. Since I've mentioned this in e-mail and publicly on these forums I'll only briefly mention high level discussion that should happen between the committee members if the project is going to succeed beyond the success of the already existing similar projects such as Wx and GTK.

• Cross platform distribution of the IUP solution (dll & wrapper)
• Integration of the above with the OE build and packaging processes
• Cross platform distribution of OE user's programs
• Complied vs Interpreted usage of OE user's programs. (Closely related to the above)
• DLL/Wrapper sync (ie what happens when a customer upgrades IUP)
• DLL location

If the above concerns are discussed and addressed you would not need to worry about these things and you could just focus on building your program. This path of downloading wrappers and DLLs from the archive or other places has proven to not be a very effective long term solution to this problem in the past. Proof of that is the fact that we are having this conversation now.

This is an open source project and is currently being worked on in a very public way. In fact, the project is housed at a defacto community repository. Greg has been soliciting help from testers since the beginning. Given that we have a small community, everyone should probably help support the project either by forking the code and working on it, or testing the code and creating bug reports, or finding ways to help with documentation. Bitbucket easily supports all of these avenues.

https://bitbucket.org/ghaberek/editor

Sure, I agree. Maybe some news about the project on the homepage is warranted. But, I would expect an Official GUI to have a section in the Official Documentation. Clearly we're not there yet.

I wouldn't call Greg's IUP efforts a pet-project but more of a proof of concept. He has a program that is generating the wrapper from the C header files. If this concept works long term, this is a big win for OE. Again, not a secret though. He's mentioned it in the forums and on the project bitbucket homepage. https://bitbucket.org/ghaberek/editor

I hope I've provided a realistic state of things for the community.

-Xecronix

64. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Dec 10, 2015
• 7655 views

Thank you for being brave enough to say that.

I didn't realize it at the time, but the deadline for the committee was between two major US holidays (US Thanksgiving and the Winter Solstice holidays like Yule and Hannaka). Furthermore, we had a third holiday in the middle of the commitee's work as well (Halloween). As all three committee members are from or are in the US, this may have been a factor in what happened.

Interesting point. If the committee approach worked out in general, but just ran out of time before it could finish everything, then I think it certainly makes sense to extend the deadline (and perhaps, now that a more realistic view of how long everything will take is known, several goal posts to mark intermediate stages).

66. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Jan 27, 2016
• 7094 views

On the other hand, it's been a month and a half since I wrote this, and no new overall deadline or dates for accomplishing goal posts have been marked by the committee.

The last post thus far: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/129181.wc

I find this state of affairs very discouraging.

68. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Jan 27, 2016
• 7036 views

I'll admit, I've been doing almost zero development since November. I just haven't had the time. The holiday season hit me really hard this year.

Productivity will return as my schedule allows. I started my IUP/Editor project on a particularly free weekend last October where I could power through it quickly.

What's disappointing to me is the reality that we just don't have enough manpower to really see these things through.

Ron laid out several roles in that post you linked to, and asked for people to "please get involved" but no one has stepped forward to contribute.

I'm preaching to the choir on this, but without more volunteers I don't think we can get much done in a timely manner.

-Greg

70. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by _tom (admin) Jan 27, 2016
• 6996 views

Thankyou, help is desperately needed.

Greg will be able to set you up so can upload example programs (an area where I have been having problems).

The first round of documentation has been uploaded.

• the "reference manual" this requires grunt work at the moment that is not easily delegated
• I have started translating some of the tutorials -- a good place to help (I will get these uploaded so they can be examined)

Library changes that I have noticed (with the understanding that the wrapper is automated and not be be faulted...)

• needs defaults
• constants with "IUPconstantname" are not being used
• changes to make it more "Euphoric" would be welcome

Any kind of tutorial would be valuable. I can help with formatting in the Creole markup style so don't worry about the details.

_tom

72. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by ChrisB (moderator) Jan 28, 2016
• 6990 views

Hi

It's a shame, but I think I agree to a point that the the UI/IDE comitte has run out of steam, through no fault of their own. I suspect that it's a combo of these two factors

• Real world commitments (ie life)
• Too lofty a target - ie cross platform invisible compatibility

It might be worthwhile, as I said before to limit the project to Windows only, since, I believe, that this is the most popular operating system, first,

What can I do to help?

Cheers

Chris

74. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Jan 28, 2016
• 6982 views

Most of the work for cross-platform compatibility has already been done. Both IUP (Tecgraf) and Euphoria provide the appropriate pre-built binaries for Windows and Linux. I've yet to have much difficulty supporting both Windows and Linux with IUP. We just need some additional effort towards testing and packaging.

Ron laid out a lot of the requirements here: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/129181.wc

Anything you can do to fill in the gaps there would be helpful. Even just testing and opening issues would be helpful.

If you need access to the repository, please send me an e-mail so I have your e-mail address, then I will send you an invite via Bitbucket to join.

-Greg

76. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Jan 28, 2016
• 6929 views

I'm not sure I understand the problem here. What constitutes an "interpreted solution?" Can you elaborate?

-Greg

78. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by _tom (admin) Jan 28, 2016
• 6944 views

I have added some "trivial proposals" to iup4eu repository. Just some ideas that may make iup4eu nicer to use.

_tom

80. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by _tom (admin) Jan 28, 2016
• 6905 views

Trivial Proposals

The idea is to explore some options before the syntax of iup4eu gets locked into place.

This is an invitation to everyone to invent their own trivial proposals.

About the IUP_ prefix

There is a bunch of constants that get created (by the automated wrapper) that don't do anything--they just clog up the support docs. They are used as arguments to routines so do not properly invade the namespace of programs.

I guess I can make a list and just erase them from the docs. But, why have them clog up the wrapper?

Lazy Lowercase

Thinking like a lazy typist I prefer "multiline=yes" to "MULTILINE=YES". Note that IUP already tolerates "MULTILINE=yes".

We don't really have to follow the standards set by IUP.

IUPname vs IUP:name

We now have:

include iup.e 
 
IupOpen() 

In the other wrapper, euIUP, names are not prefixed but you need namespace control:

include iup.e as IUP 
 
IUP:open() 

Thinking like a lazy typist some functions will work without any prefix, a few will need an identifier like g:open(). This saves typing caps and one or two characters!

I understand Greg prefers the prefixes.

Support Docs

Support is now: docs, wiki, forum, and helpful Euphoria members.

This is "New Speak" so we don't use "documentation" which has too many syllables and a unwanted Latinate suffix.

Good idea from ghaberek.

_tom

82. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by petelomax Jan 28, 2016
• 6853 views

One less step when translating C to Eu.
It is also the case that I can add an F1 lookup to IUP_MAX but cannot so easily do that for "MAX".

84. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by _tom (admin) Jan 29, 2016
• 6821 views

I will work on documenting the signatures and constants for the wrapper. This is messy so I don't wish this work on anyone.

Anyone can help with:

• converting c examples to OE
• converting tutorial (c or lua) example code to OE

What I have so far is now uploaded to the iup4eu repository:

• /support/tutorial-Donovan
• /support/tutorial-LyrioScuri

These have been taken from the IUP documentation. So far, only a few bits have been converted to OE.

Take a look at:

https://bitbucket.org/ghaberek/iup4eu

thanks

_tom

86. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by ghaberek (admin) Jan 29, 2016
• 6803 views

Yeah, you need to log in with a Bitbucket account. That prevents rogue anonymous contributions to things like wiki and voting. I will remember that you voted.

-Greg

88. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by andi49 Feb 07, 2016
• 6579 views

Link does not work, removed the brackets.

http://libagar.org

Andreas

90. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by petelomax Feb 17, 2016
• 6247 views

I just realised and I don't think this was mentioned,

IupSetAttribute(ih,"multiline","yes") 

could easily be supported by a simple upper() on p2, however

IupSetAttributes(ih,"title=Window") 

would be much messier, a simple upper() would obviously set the title to "WINDOW" instead of "Window".

Pete

92. Re: Is there a good Windows or cross-platform Euphoria IDE?

• Posted by jmduro Feb 26, 2016
• 5937 views

I was wondering if a wrapper on a Javascript UI framework, through a web browser, would fit the need.

I took a look at many of those and one of them seems to be more in the Euphoria style: Qooxdoo.

Jean-Marc

94. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Mar 06, 2016
• 5608 views

Agreed. It sounds like the committee was indeed successful in solving most of the technical problems, identifying the steps needed to finish it, and pointing out the roadmap and identifying new tasks and new roles to accomplish this.

It sounds like, given enough time or enough manpower (or both), that this will eventually reach the finishing point, but unfortunately we need a lot of the former given that that's no forseeable increase in the latter.

The committee therefore has not actually failed, but it can not give us a realistic new deadline to actually reach the final goal.

I took a quick look at the wiki https://bitbucket.org/ghaberek/iup4eu/wiki/Home and the tickets page https://bitbucket.org/ghaberek/iup4eu/issues but did not see this.

That said, I might have just missed it. And even if it's really not there, adding it probably won't help - the real issue is we need more volunteers.

Even without them though, the group will probably get this done. Eventually. It will just take a lot of time. That said, I don't feel that we should impose the decision of the committee on the community unless we can accomplish this task within a reasonable period of time.

This is why, if there are no new developments by the end of March 31st 2016 (in the last time zone, GMT-12), I would like to hold a vote on this subject to establish a proper mandate.

96. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Apr 01, 2016
• 4672 views

It has been decided - the way forward will now be to support and ship LazGUI ( http://openeuphoria.org/forum/129400.wc#129400 ) as the official OpenEuphoria GUI.

Judith's IDE will also be ported to use and support LazGUI, instead of w32lib. This will become the official IDE of OpenEuphoria and it will also ship with the next OpenEuphoria release.

Jeremy Cowgar will officially head both efforts. We expect this to be finished in time for the OpenEuphoria 6.0.0 RC1 release.

98. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Apr 01, 2016
• 4618 views

Perhaps the joke was on me after all.

100. Re: UI/IDE committee

• Posted by ryanj Apr 01, 2016
• 4642 views

Good one!