1. How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1807 views
Forked from Re: making a dll
Folks this is the kind of thing to expect when reporting bugs. You'll get beaten to death about the cloud of stuff all around the bug, whether or not there is anything wrong in the cloud, and then you'll be attacked personally. It's been this way for years. And the bug is likely to stay in place.
selfdestructive and selfsabotaging and helpless and useless
Actually, this only seems to happen with you. Many others are able to get bug reports in without any problems:
http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/779.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/776.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/771.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/770.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/767.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/765.wc (report originally from http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/118158.wc) http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/764.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/762.wc
I hold all of these up as examples on how to file a bug report The Right Way(tm). eukat, you can (and should) learn from these.
Even when the bug report is done incorrectly, and missing information, there's none of this animosity that occurs when you report one. Example: http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/786.wc
Can you come up with three other people who have been treated in the manner that you claim (aside from yourself)? I very much doubt it. You may feel that you have been personally attacked ... I feel that the source of that is your own feelings.
2. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by useless_ Sep 27, 2012
- 1807 views
Forked from Re: making a dll
Folks this is the kind of thing to expect when reporting bugs. You'll get beaten to death about the cloud of stuff all around the bug, whether or not there is anything wrong in the cloud, and then you'll be attacked personally. It's been this way for years. And the bug is likely to stay in place.
selfdestructive and selfsabotaging and helpless and useless
Actually, this only seems to happen with you. Many others are able to get bug reports in without any problems:
http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/779.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/776.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/771.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/770.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/767.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/765.wc (report originally from http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/118158.wc) http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/764.wc http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/762.wc
I hold all of these up as examples on how to file a bug report The Right Way(tm). eukat, you can (and should) learn from these.
Even when the bug report is done incorrectly, and missing information, there's none of this animosity that occurs when you report one. Example: http://openeuphoria.org/ticket/786.wc
Can you come up with three other people who have been treated in the manner that you claim (aside from yourself)? I very much doubt it. You may feel that you have been personally attacked ... I feel that the source of that is your own feelings.
So it is not personally directed at me when i am called names in posts directed to me? This is confusing also.
selfdestructive and selfsabotaging and helpless and useless and doomedtorepeatherself (at Matt's request)
3. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1790 views
So it is not personally directed at me when i am called names in posts directed to me? This is confusing also.
No, that's definitely addressed to you. I guess it's inappropriate, but really, I was just playing along with the game that you started and now deny having started when you began using "useless" as your handle.
Matt
4. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by useless_ Sep 27, 2012
- 1794 views
So it is not personally directed at me when i am called names in posts directed to me? This is confusing also.
No, that's definitely addressed to you. I guess it's inappropriate, but really, I was just playing along with the game that you started and now deny having started when you began using "useless" as your handle.
Matt
I didn't deny using the nick, but there was no game intended. This is how you recognise me, it's appropriate here. I report a bug, it's useless. I contribute code, it's useless. My value here is shot, it's irrecoverable, i recognise that. There's nothing i can do to be useful here, and i have no more of a good reputation to lose here. There's no game, never was.
useless
5. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1798 views
So it is not personally directed at me when i am called names in posts directed to me? This is confusing also.
No, that's definitely addressed to you. I guess it's inappropriate, but really, I was just playing along with the game that you started and now deny having started when you began using "useless" as your handle.
Matt
I didn't deny using the nick, but there was no game intended. This is how you recognise me, it's appropriate here. I report a bug, it's useless. I contribute code, it's useless. My value here is shot, it's irrecoverable, i recognise that. There's nothing i can do to be useful here, and i have no more of a good reputation to lose here. There's no game, never was.
eukat
I am of the stance that this is only the cause if you deliberately choose to take steps to make it so (e.g. by feigning helplessness when you are not helpless, or being self-destructive or self-sabotaging).
In fact, as I've already stated, your recent actions seem to argue that this is false: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119129.wc
Even more suspect, if you really believed this was true, then why would you be here, actively posting? The only plausible answer is that you'd be here for the entertainment value - which then implies you enjoy this sort of thing, which is not a very far cry from treating the whole exchange as a big, silly game.
6. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by useless_ Sep 27, 2012
- 1802 views
So it is not personally directed at me when i am called names in posts directed to me? This is confusing also.
No, that's definitely addressed to you. I guess it's inappropriate, but really, I was just playing along with the game that you started and now deny having started when you began using "useless" as your handle.
Matt
I didn't deny using the nick, but there was no game intended. This is how you recognise me, it's appropriate here. I report a bug, it's useless. I contribute code, it's useless. My value here is shot, it's irrecoverable, i recognise that. There's nothing i can do to be useful here, and i have no more of a good reputation to lose here. There's no game, never was.
eukat
I am of the stance that this is only the cause if you deliberately choose to take steps to make it so (e.g. by feigning helplessness when you are not helpless, or being self-destructive or self-sabotaging).
In fact, as I've already stated, your recent actions seem to argue that this is false: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119129.wc
Even more suspect, if you really believed this was true, then why would you be here, actively posting? The only plausible answer is that you'd be here for the entertainment value - which then implies you enjoy this sort of thing, which is not a very far cry from treating the whole exchange as a big, silly game.
Matt said to pay attention and not ignore these things.
useless
7. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1797 views
Matt said to pay attention and not ignore these things.
eukat
Technically, you didn't ignore it, but you didn't address anything in here either, so... arguably, you have ignored it.
8. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by useless_ Sep 27, 2012
- 1800 views
Matt said to pay attention and not ignore these things.
eukat
Technically, you didn't ignore it, but you didn't address anything in here either, so... arguably, you have ignored it.
You asked and answered your question. I know better than to try and change your mind. If you meant to be baiting me, i didn't realise that, so i guess in the spirit of the fight, i should jump right in? I do not think this is helping anything, but ok.
I am of the stance that this is only the cause if you deliberately choose to take steps to make it so (e.g. by feigning helplessness when you are not helpless, or being self-destructive or self-sabotaging).
I said there is a problem, without knowing the issues of why any of the downloaded install code was written the way it was, it wasn't really prudent to start hacking at it. Call that "helpless" if you will, but when it was apparent all i was going to get was distractions (c:\euphoria\ ???) and name-calling, i discovered the missing "%" symbol and got the DLL made (still haven't tried it, pretty depressed over this whole fiasco), so while i am not useless, reporting the bug in this forum or irc is useless, because it's not a "ticket", and i explained why i won't file a ticket. "self-destructive"?, well, seeing as there's nothing worth anything of me in this forum, i don't know what there is to destroy. As for sabotaging, i had hopes the bug report and fix would be useful, and so i stayed with the issue here, when i guess i should have just treated you like i did CoJaBo regarding my harddrive directory sizes and contents. In that treatment, i implied CoJaBo was ignoring what i said (c:\euphoria\ ???), or was dimwitted (the words i wrote mean something), or he was baiting me ("Technically, you didn't ignore it, but you didn't address anything in here either, so... arguably, you have ignored it.") after i repeatedly said i wasn't going to get into it with him.
Now i see it does not matter which path i chose, the results are the same: we are all pissed, we used up a lot of time, i have more adjectives to call myself here, and there's no ticket for the bug in setenv-ow.bat, we never got to addressing WATCOM being shipped with Eu when it's use is deprecated, and yet Euphorum is flooded.
Did i address it to your satisfaction?
useless
9. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1776 views
we never got to addressing WATCOM being shipped with Eu when it's use is deprecated, and yet Euphorum is flooded.
What else is there to address on this topic? It's an officially (and best) supported compiler for euphoria 4.0, and is planned to go away for euphoria 4.1.
Matt
10. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1793 views
You asked and answered your question.
The only question I asked was if you really believe what you said is true .. my answer thus means that I have yet to be convinced that you believe what you've stated. That's a serious accusation ... but going the other way would be an even more serious accusation.
I know better than to try and change your mind.
I always try to keep an open mind.
If you meant to be baiting me, i didn't realise that, so i guess in the spirit of the fight, i should jump right in? I do not think this is helping anything, but ok.
Perhaps you are right. I'm not baiting you, just looking to get all the facts out there so we can get to a harmonious resolution, but ... this may be in vain.
I can at least get all the facts out there.
I am of the stance that this is only the cause if you deliberately choose to take steps to make it so (e.g. by feigning helplessness when you are not helpless, or being self-destructive or self-sabotaging).
I said there is a problem, without knowing the issues of why any of the downloaded install code was written the way it was, it wasn't really prudent to start hacking at it.
Understandable.
Call that "helpless" if you will,
I wouldn't. I believe the original person to use that term was referring to a different aspect.
but when it was apparent all i was going to get was distractions (c:\euphoria\ ???)
I have in the past made some very serious typos and freudian slips. No one is perfect.
I meant to say c:\Euphoria-4.0.4\WATCOM\binw and c:\Euphoria-4.0.4\WATCOM\binnt
and name-calling,
I am normally against name-calling.
i discovered the missing "%" symbol and got the DLL made
You mean I discovered it and told you about it over the IRC channel, right?
(still haven't tried it, pretty depressed over this whole fiasco),
I'm sorry to hear that. You aren't the only one.
so while i am not useless,
Agreed.
reporting the bug in this forum or irc is useless, because it's not a "ticket",
Not totally pointless. Simply not recommended for the previously stated reason that such bug reports are more easily lost.
and i explained why i won't file a ticket.
Not in this thread or its predecessor (beyond not wanting to "tackle the entire dev team" (even though most tickets are handled by one or two devs) and that making a ticket is "to go looking for more hassle").
"self-destructive"?, well, seeing as there's nothing worth anything of me in this forum, i don't know what there is to destroy. As for sabotaging, i had hopes the bug report and fix would be useful,
Agreed, they were.
and so i stayed with the issue here, when i guess i should have just treated you like i did CoJaBo regarding my harddrive directory sizes and contents. In that treatment, i implied CoJaBo was ignoring what i said (c:\euphoria\ ???), or was dimwitted (the words i wrote mean something), or he was baiting me ("Technically, you didn't ignore it, but you didn't address anything in here either, so... arguably, you have ignored it.") after i repeatedly said i wasn't going to get into it with him.
Notifying us about a bug was very helpful and useful. Ignoring people who are trying to assist you is bad form, but I suppose it's better than what happened between you and Matt.
Now that you mention it, it looks like you did ignore me in the same way that you ignored CoJaBo on that topic: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119084.wc OTOH, it's not fair to demand a response every time to every minor point when everybody is busy and has more important tasks to accomplish.
Now i see it does not matter which path i chose, the results are the same: we are all pissed, we used up a lot of time, i have more adjectives to call myself here, and yet Euphorum is flooded.
Erm .. have you tried the path where you just file a ticket?
and there's no ticket for the bug in setenv-ow.bat,
Unlike Matt, I'm not so picky about this. If it gets fixed in the source, it's not a big deal if there's no ticket for it.
That said, I can't deny that filing tickets makes life easier for all involved - the reporter, the users, and the devs. In a lot of ways, it's the easier path.
we never got to addressing WATCOM being shipped with Eu when it's use is deprecated,
Nothing to address there.
Did i address it to your satisfaction?
eukat
Yes, you have.
11. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1780 views
What else is there to address on this topic? It's an officially (and best) supported compiler for euphoria 4.0, and is planned to go away for euphoria 4.1.
Matt
Right, Watcom is not really deprecated in the sense that we support it but don't recommend its use.
We either support it and recommend it (4.0 line, up to the future release 4.0.5), or we have already dropped it and stopped supporting it (the future release 4.1.0 and all future releases).
It's the 4.0 line that's about to be deprecated, as soon as 4.1 gets out the door.
12. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by useless_ Sep 27, 2012
- 1778 views
You asked and answered your question.
The only question I asked was if you really believe what you said is true .. my answer thus means that I have yet to be convinced that you believe what you've stated. That's a serious accusation ... but going the other way would be an even more serious accusation.
I believe what i said is true.
i discovered the missing "%" symbol and got the DLL made
You mean I discovered it and told you about it over the IRC channel, right?
No, i do not mean that. Previous to me saying it, you had said the following when i was not in channel (i was in bed asleep):
.. 5 am Thursday 9/27/2012 .. [05:28] <iamlost> mattlewis: do we have a bug in the branches? [05:29] <iamlost> mattlewis: i looked at euphoria-ow.iss and i see it writes out %WATCOM\binw to setenv-ow.bat when setting the PATHI then woke up and came into channel ~3.5 hours later, i didn't see what you said previously.
.. 9 am Thursday 9/27/2012 .. [09:07] <katsmeow-afk> <cough> [09:09] <iamlost> crikey [09:09] <iamlost> what a joke [09:09] <katsmeow-afk> i missed the jokeand we discussed the lack of time concurrency of irc. Later on, after i looked into the strangeness of the PATH variable after running setenv-ow.bat, and later:
[09:25] <katsmeow-afk> i do not have access to the installer code, so i cannot fix it, but if the install is inconsistant, i'd like to blame the installer, if you don't mnd [09:34] <iamlost> katsmeow-afk: well [09:34] <iamlost> we do have at least one bug in the installer that i found this morning [09:35] <iamlost> directly related to setenv-ow.batWhich isn't saying "the bug in is setenv-ow.bat" . . .
[09:35] <iamlost> so ... [09:35] <iamlost> yeah, the installer has a bug [09:35] <katsmeow-afk> i see a missing % setenv-ow.batAnd that is the bug i found, which strangely YOU dispute later on . . .
[09:35] <katsmeow-afk> or, i don't see a missing % [09:35] <katsmeow-afk> it's missing, ic annot see it [09:36] <katsmeow-afk> do you want to fix it am appologise to me, or shall i appologise to me for you? [09:36] <iamlost> katsmeow-afk: i'd prefer the later, thank you very much.so i appologised to me for you in private, even tho the appology was related to you saying i had installed Eu wrong in this forum.
[09:37] <mattlewis> does the bug there fix katsmeow-afk's problem? [09:37] <katsmeow-afk> and, why has this not been caught before?!? [09:37] <iamlost> mattlewis: i doubt it [09:37] <iamlost> mattlewis: based on her PATH, she seems to have bigger issuesBOOM There, you disregarded my bug report. I had already run the fixed bat file and euc by then, and it completed, apparently properly. But you said i have bigger issues with the install or path.
[09:37] <katsmeow-afk> what's wrong with the path ? [09:37] <iamlost> katsmeow-afk: dunno. it seems to have been present as far back as 40b2 [09:37] <katsmeow-afk> wow [09:38] <katsmeow-afk> no one has run setenv-ow.bat in years? [09:38] <mattlewis> iamlost: I agree, for the reasons in my last forum postThat was Matt disregarding it . . .
[09:38] <iamlost> hmm, i am mistaken [09:38] <iamlost> i ran the broken setenv-ow.bat and got the same path [09:38] <iamlost> windoze is crap :/And there you go blaming windoze for the disregarded bug in setenv-ow.bat. By then i had fixed the bat file and gotten my DLL once. Just to be sure, i ran it a 2nd time to get a clean screen and post it on irc.
Erm .. have you tried the path where you just file a ticket?
Again you disregarded me saying i know better than to file a ticket. I know better because i have filed tickets before, yes. At least here only you and Matt went after me. This was more than enough drama for me, i don't need the whole dev team on my rear.
useless
13. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1744 views
i discovered the missing "%" symbol and got the DLL made
You mean I discovered it and told you about it over the IRC channel, right?
No, i do not mean that. Previous to me saying it, you had said the following when i was not in channel (i was in bed asleep):
.. 5 am Thursday 9/27/2012 .. [05:28] <iamlost> mattlewis: do we have a bug in the branches? [05:29] <iamlost> mattlewis: i looked at euphoria-ow.iss and i see it writes out %WATCOM\binw to setenv-ow.bat when setting the PATHI then woke up and came into channel ~3.5 hours later, i didn't see what you said previously.
.. 9 am Thursday 9/27/2012 .. [09:07] <katsmeow-afk> <cough> [09:09] <iamlost> crikey [09:09] <iamlost> what a joke [09:09] <katsmeow-afk> i missed the jokeand we discussed the lack of time concurrency of irc.
Agreed, as I saw:
<katsmeow-afk> <cough> <iamlost> crikey <iamlost> what a joke <iamlost> setting up 64bit eubins is taking forever <katsmeow-afk> i missed the joke
and I blamed lag.
Later on, after i looked into the strangeness of the PATH variable after running setenv-ow.bat, and later:
[09:25] <katsmeow-afk> i do not have access to the installer code, so i cannot fix it, but if the install is inconsistant, i'd like to blame the installer, if you don't mnd [09:34] <iamlost> katsmeow-afk: well [09:34] <iamlost> we do have at least one bug in the installer that i found this morning [09:35] <iamlost> directly related to setenv-ow.batWhich isn't saying "the bug in is setenv-ow.bat" . . .
[09:35] <iamlost> so ... [09:35] <iamlost> yeah, the installer has a bug [09:35] <katsmeow-afk> i see a missing % setenv-ow.batAnd that is the bug i found,
Ah, ok, so you found it independently after I had. Fair enough.
which strangely YOU dispute later on . . .
I see no dispute in the quote below.
[09:35] <katsmeow-afk> or, i don't see a missing % [09:35] <katsmeow-afk> it's missing, ic annot see it [09:36] <katsmeow-afk> do you want to fix it am appologise to me, or shall i appologise to me for you? [09:36] <iamlost> katsmeow-afk: i'd prefer the later, thank you very much.
so i appologised to me for you in private, even tho the appology was related to you saying i had installed Eu wrong in this forum.
Where did I say that? I deny saying that. Please give a direct quote.
[09:37] <mattlewis> does the bug there fix katsmeow-afk's problem? [09:37] <katsmeow-afk> and, why has this not been caught before?!? [09:37] <iamlost> mattlewis: i doubt it [09:37] <iamlost> mattlewis: based on her PATH, she seems to have bigger issuesBOOM There, you disregarded my bug report. I had already run the fixed bat file and euc by then, and it completed, apparently properly. But you said i have bigger issues with the install or path.
I didn't disregard it, I just said that I doubted it (based on incomplete information at the time and a lack of understanding on how Windoze deals with percent signs). Which I did admit later on:
[09:38] <iamlost> hmm, i am mistaken [09:38] <iamlost> i ran the broken setenv-ow.bat and got the same path [09:38] <iamlost> windoze is crap :/And there you go blaming windoze for the disregarded bug in setenv-ow.bat. By then i had fixed the bat file and gotten my DLL once. Just to be sure, i ran it a 2nd time to get a clean screen and post it on irc.
Right. I'm perfectly fine with blaming Windoze for mangling environment variables in unpredictable ways, instead of mangling them in predictable ways like it works in the Unix world.
Of course, at no point did I disregard your bug, or state that I was disregarding it. That was a false assumption on your part.
[09:37] <katsmeow-afk> what's wrong with the path ? [09:37] <iamlost> katsmeow-afk: dunno. it seems to have been present as far back as 40b2 [09:37] <katsmeow-afk> wow [09:38] <katsmeow-afk> no one has run setenv-ow.bat in years? [09:38] <mattlewis> iamlost: I agree, for the reasons in my last forum postThat was Matt disregarding it . . .
Yes, a fellow Unix hand got bit by the same issue that bit me. Not a surprise.
Erm .. have you tried the path where you just file a ticket?
I know better because i have filed tickets before, yes.
In that case, which tickets have the entire dev team attacking you?
Which tickets have you filed?
Again you disregarded me saying i know better than to file a ticket. At least here only you and Matt went after me. This was more than enough drama for me, i don't need the whole dev team on my rear.
eukat
Thanks for disregarding the fact that I pointed out only a single dev or two (as opposed to the entire dev team) will handle the ticket!
You asked and answered your question.
The only question I asked was if you really believe what you said is true .. my answer thus means that I have yet to be convinced that you believe what you've stated. That's a serious accusation ... but going the other way would be an even more serious accusation.
I believe what i said is true.
Then why are you on the forums and IRC channel at all?
14. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by useless_ Sep 27, 2012
- 1750 views
which strangely YOU dispute later on . . .
I see no dispute in the quote below.
How good of you. It wasn't below, it was LATER.
[09:35] <katsmeow-afk> or, i don't see a missing % [09:35] <katsmeow-afk> it's missing, ic annot see it [09:36] <katsmeow-afk> do you want to fix it am appologise to me, or shall i appologise to me for you? [09:36] <iamlost> katsmeow-afk: i'd prefer the later, thank you very much.
so i appologised to me for you in private, even tho the appology was related to you saying i had installed Eu wrong in this forum.
Where did I say that? I deny saying that. Please give a direct quote.
Um, no, i have spent enough time on this crap.
[09:37] <mattlewis> does the bug there fix katsmeow-afk's problem? [09:37] <katsmeow-afk> and, why has this not been caught before?!? [09:37] <iamlost> mattlewis: i doubt it [09:37] <iamlost> mattlewis: based on her PATH, she seems to have bigger issuesBOOM There, you disregarded my bug report. I had already run the fixed bat file and euc by then, and it completed, apparently properly. But you said i have bigger issues with the install or path.
I didn't disregard it, I just said that I doubted it (based on incomplete information at the time and a lack of understanding on how Windoze deals with percent signs). Which I did admit later on:
"doubt" is "disbelief", that is: you did not believe the fix i had.
I am also fed up with trying to keep renesting the conversation in this creole.
[quote jimcbrown]
[09:38] <iamlost> hmm, i am mistaken [09:38] <iamlost> i ran the broken setenv-ow.bat and got the same path [09:38] <iamlost> windoze is crap :/And there you go blaming windoze for the disregarded bug in setenv-ow.bat. By then i had fixed the bat file and gotten my DLL once. Just to be sure, i ran it a 2nd time to get a clean screen and post it on irc.
Right. I'm perfectly fine with blaming Windoze for mangling environment variables in unpredictable ways, instead of mangling them in predictable ways like it works in the Unix world. [\quote]
If you leave out a %, windows will predictably mangle the PATH, *how* it mangles it is irrelavant, just like how Unix treats it is irrelavant.
Of course, at no point did I disregard your bug, or state that I was disregarding it. That was a false assumption on your part.
You merely didn't believe it.
[09:37] <katsmeow-afk> what's wrong with the path ? [09:37] <iamlost> katsmeow-afk: dunno. it seems to have been present as far back as 40b2 [09:37] <katsmeow-afk> wow [09:38] <katsmeow-afk> no one has run setenv-ow.bat in years? [09:38] <mattlewis> iamlost: I agree, for the reasons in my last forum postThat was Matt disregarding it . . .
Yes, a fellow Unix hand got bit by the same issue that bit me. Not a surprise.
Erm .. have you tried the path where you just file a ticket?
I know better because i have filed tickets before, yes.
In that case, which tickets have the entire dev team attacking you?
Which tickets have you filed?
Again you disregarded me saying i know better than to file a ticket. At least here only you and Matt went after me. This was more than enough drama for me, i don't need the whole dev team on my rear.
eukat
Thanks for disregarding the fact that I pointed out only a single dev or two (as opposed to the entire dev team) will handle the ticket!
Irrelavant, others have freely jumped in on the bashing before.
You asked and answered your question.
The only question I asked was if you really believe what you said is true .. my answer thus means that I have yet to be convinced that you believe what you've stated. That's a serious accusation ... but going the other way would be an even more serious accusation.
I believe what i said is true.
Then why are you on the forums and IRC channel at all?
Wow, what part did you not catch about the start of the topic i started??
useless
15. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1743 views
which strangely YOU dispute later on . . .
I see no dispute in the quote below.
How good of you. It wasn't below, it was LATER.
Ok, so you are refering to my mistake then, where I switched from thinking this was the cause to doubting it before testing it and realizing it was the cause.
[09:35] <katsmeow-afk> or, i don't see a missing % [09:35] <katsmeow-afk> it's missing, ic annot see it [09:36] <katsmeow-afk> do you want to fix it am appologise to me, or shall i appologise to me for you? [09:36] <iamlost> katsmeow-afk: i'd prefer the later, thank you very much.
so i appologised to me for you in private, even tho the appology was related to you saying i had installed Eu wrong in this forum.
Where did I say that? I deny saying that. Please give a direct quote.
Um, no, i have spent enough time on this crap.
I can't disagree with that. Still, my position is that I never said you had installed Eu incorrectly, and I'll continue to deny any statement to the contrary.You're mistaken here.
[09:37] <mattlewis> does the bug there fix katsmeow-afk's problem? [09:37] <katsmeow-afk> and, why has this not been caught before?!? [09:37] <iamlost> mattlewis: i doubt it [09:37] <iamlost> mattlewis: based on her PATH, she seems to have bigger issuesBOOM There, you disregarded my bug report. I had already run the fixed bat file and euc by then, and it completed, apparently properly. But you said i have bigger issues with the install or path.
I didn't disregard it, I just said that I doubted it (based on incomplete information at the time and a lack of understanding on how Windoze deals with percent signs). Which I did admit later on:
"doubt" is "disbelief", that is: you did not believe the fix i had.
1) I discovered it first, so it is my fix. 2) I did have a moment of disbelief when I saw your path and it didn't match what I thought. I had a second moment of disbelief when I tested it out and realized that my conception was wrong.
This is normal, facts get doubted and checked again and again when developing and debugging.
At no point did I doubt you on a personal level. If you had suddenly said I was wrong because you tested it and the fix worked so that really was the bug, I would have believed you. Ok, I would have retested it myself anyways - but that doesn't mean I didn't believe in you.
If you leave out a %, windows will predictably mangle the PATH, *how* it mangles it is irrelavant, just like how Unix treats it is irrelavant.
Sure it is. I expected the PATH to be mangled to C:\Euphoria-4.0.4\bin;%WATCOM\binw;C:\Euphoria-4.0.4\WATCOM\binnt or maybe to C:\Euphoria-4.0.4\bin;WATCOM\binw;C:\Euphoria-4.0.4\WATCOM\binnt
Since it wasn't mangled the way that I expected it to be, I got confused and started doubting things. But then I started to have doubts about that and decided to double check.
Of course, at no point did I disregard your bug, or state that I was disregarding it. That was a false assumption on your part.
You merely didn't believe it.
The sequence of events was:
1) I find the bug, believe that it's the cause of your PATH problems. 2) I see your path, the output doesn't fit what I expect, so I start having doubts. 3) Matt quickly interjects and asks what I think. 4) I then have more doubts, and do a test that shows I was originally correct.
Thanks for disregarding the fact that I pointed out only a single dev or two (as opposed to the entire dev team) will handle the ticket!
Irrelavant, others have freely jumped in on the bashing before.
That's my point: no one else should jump in.
Then why are you on the forums and IRC channel at all?
Wow, what part did you not catch about the start of the topic i started??
I caught everything, thanks. I'm still waiting for an answer to this question.
16. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by useless_ Sep 27, 2012
- 1737 views
[09:37] <iamlost> mattlewis: i doubt it [09:37] <iamlost> mattlewis: based on her PATH, she seems to have bigger issues }}} BOOM There, you disregarded my bug report. I had already run the fixed bat file and euc by then, and it completed, apparently properly. But you said i have bigger issues with the install or path.
I didn't disregard it, I just said that I doubted it (based on incomplete information at the time and a lack of understanding on how Windoze deals with percent signs). Which I did admit later on:
"doubt" is "disbelief", that is: you did not believe the fix i had. [/quote]
1) I discovered it first, so it is my fix. [/quote]
But you did not tell me of this, until this Euphorum thread. You didn't tell me on irc. If you had the fix, what did you gain by not telling me?
2) I did have a moment of disbelief when I saw your path and it didn't match what I thought. I had a second moment of disbelief when I tested it out and realized that my conception was wrong.
This is normal, facts get doubted and checked again and again when developing and debugging.
At no point did I doubt you on a personal level. If you had suddenly said I was wrong because you tested it and the fix worked so that really was the bug, I would have believed you. Ok, I would have retested it myself anyways - but that doesn't mean I didn't believe in you.
If you leave out a %, windows will predictably mangle the PATH, *how* it mangles it is irrelavant, just like how Unix treats it is irrelavant.
Sure it is. I expected the PATH to be mangled to C:\Euphoria-4.0.4\bin;%WATCOM\binw;C:\Euphoria-4.0.4\WATCOM\binnt or maybe to C:\Euphoria-4.0.4\bin;WATCOM\binw;C:\Euphoria-4.0.4\WATCOM\binnt
Since it wasn't mangled the way that I expected it to be, I got confused and started doubting things. But then I started to have doubts about that and decided to double check.
Of course, at no point did I disregard your bug, or state that I was disregarding it. That was a false assumption on your part.
You merely didn't believe it.
The sequence of events was:
1) I find the bug, believe that it's the cause of your PATH problems. 2) I see your path, the output doesn't fit what I expect, so I start having doubts. 3) Matt quickly interjects and asks what I think. 4) I then have more doubts, and do a test that shows I was originally correct.
Thanks for disregarding the fact that I pointed out only a single dev or two (as opposed to the entire dev team) will handle the ticket!
Irrelavant, others have freely jumped in on the bashing before.
That's my point: no one else should jump in.
[/quote]
True. I agree.
Then why are you on the forums and IRC channel at all?
Wow, what part did you not catch about the start of the topic i started??
I caught everything, thanks. I'm still waiting for an answer to this question.
[/quote]
I asked for a feature, Matt said i should use DLLs, i said it didn't work as shipped, i pointed out a bug, then we all got really ugly about the bugs and problems and stuff, which you keep dragging on here.
Matt, i ask permission to stop paying attention to Jim on this thread. This is really a counterproductive protocol of interaction.
useless
17. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1751 views
1) I discovered it first, so it is my fix.
But you did not tell me of this, until this Euphorum thread. You didn't tell me on irc. If you had the fix, what did you gain by not telling me?
I did state this in IRC, which you actually quoted. I'll quote it again:
i discovered the missing "%" symbol and got the DLL made
You mean I discovered it and told you about it over the IRC channel, right?
No, i do not mean that. Previous to me saying it, you had said the following when i was not in channel (i was in bed asleep):
.. 5 am Thursday 9/27/2012 .. [05:28] <iamlost> mattlewis: do we have a bug in the branches? [05:29] <iamlost> mattlewis: i looked at euphoria-ow.iss and i see it writes out %WATCOM\binw to setenv-ow.bat when setting the PATHI then woke up and came into channel ~3.5 hours later, i didn't see what you said previously.
You missed what I said and rediscovered it for yourself. Fair enough.
I had nothing to gain from hiding this from you and did not deliberately do so. I simply said it and you missed it. It happens.
That's my point: no one else should jump in.
True. I agree.
Glad we can agree on something.
I asked for a feature,
But why would you do this if you believed you'd be personally attacked as a consequence?
Matt said i should use DLLs, i said it didn't work as shipped, i pointed out a bug, then we all got really ugly about the bugs and problems and stuff, which you keep dragging on here.
I'd say things started getting really ugly here with your post - after you had the bug fixed and the DLL built: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119114.wc
Otherwise, this is a perfectly accurate summary of the events that occurred.
Matt, i ask permission to stop paying attention to Jim on this thread. This is really a counterproductive protocol of interaction.
I'll give my permission in lieu of Matt's for this. Not sure why you need it, but if you want it then we are all willing to oblige.
As for counterproductive? Maybe, but then again I rarely consider fact-finding or fact-checking to be counterproductive.
18. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by useless_ Sep 27, 2012
- 1745 views
1) I discovered it first, so it is my fix.
But you did not tell me of this, until this Euphorum thread. You didn't tell me on irc. If you had the fix, what did you gain by not telling me?
I did state this in IRC, which you actually quoted. I'll quote it again:
i discovered the missing "%" symbol and got the DLL made
You mean I discovered it and told you about it over the IRC channel, right?
No, i do not mean that. Previous to me saying it, you had said the following when i was not in channel (i was in bed asleep):
.. 5 am Thursday 9/27/2012 .. [05:28] <iamlost> mattlewis: do we have a bug in the branches? [05:29] <iamlost> mattlewis: i looked at euphoria-ow.iss and i see it writes out %WATCOM\binw to setenv-ow.bat when setting the PATHI then woke up and came into channel ~3.5 hours later, i didn't see what you said previously.
You missed what I said and rediscovered it for yourself. Fair enough.
I had nothing to gain from hiding this from you and did not deliberately do so. I simply said it and you missed it. It happens.
I was in channel waking up and reading Euphorum and looking for the bug from 9:07 until i found the bug and had proved to myself it was the bug at 9:35 and announced it in channel. You knew i needed that bugfix to follow thru on Matt's help and suggestions from the day before.
That's my point: no one else should jump in.
True. I agree.
Glad we can agree on something.
I asked for a feature,
But why would you do this if you believed you'd be personally attacked as a consequence?
I believe i need what i asked for. I was willing to jump thru hoops, or DLLs, or your constant unending grilling, to get it. Even tho i have spend hours since then on replying to you in Euphorum, i think i may still be able to get to that code one day, when you stop monopolising my time here. I much prefer ignoring this stupidity, and since you gave me permission to stop following this societal rule. . .
useless
19. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1703 views
I was in channel waking up and reading Euphorum and looking for the bug from 9:07 until i found the bug and had proved to myself it was the bug at 9:35 and announced it in channel. You knew i needed that bugfix to follow thru on Matt's help and suggestions from the day before.
You mean yesterday? That is true. I did attempt to look at your setenv-ow.bat by asking you about it (see http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119095.wc ) which would have helped me confirm that this was the bug you had, but you ignored it and later claimed you didn't understand it (e.g. http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/119110.wc )
Obviously, it was a mistake to report the bug fix on IRC and attempt a follow-up on the forums - I should have used a ticket instead!
I believe i need what i asked for. I was willing to jump thru hoops, or DLLs, or your constant unending grilling, to get it.
This is plausible in the context of these two threads alone. You really needed something and were willing to walk on water to get it.
This a lot less plausible when looking at some of your other recent posts, however: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/118951.wc . I don't buy it.
Even tho i have spend hours since then on replying to you in Euphorum, i think i may still be able to get to that code one day, when you stop monopolising my time here. I much prefer ignoring this stupidity, and since you gave me permission to stop following this societal rule. . .
I totally and completely agree. Code should come first. Nothing else counts but the code.
20. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by kenneth Sep 27, 2012
- 1719 views
Thanks, Kat and Jim, for combining education with entertainment. Surely more people read your conversations than read the manual. I'm looking forward to the next installment.
21. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by mattlewis (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1731 views
and there's no ticket for the bug in setenv-ow.bat,
Unlike Matt, I'm not so picky about this. If it gets fixed in the source, it's not a big deal if there's no ticket for it.
I would say that it's not that I'm necessarily picky about it, and I've entered plenty of tickets after getting reports in the forum or email or IRC or whatever. But someone else's current top priority may not be mine. I may not really understand the bug. And I think it's undeniable that the best way to make sure something doesn't fall through the cracks is to enter a ticket.
Matt
22. Re: How to make a useful bug report
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Sep 27, 2012
- 1739 views
and there's no ticket for the bug in setenv-ow.bat,
Unlike Matt, I'm not so picky about this. If it gets fixed in the source, it's not a big deal if there's no ticket for it.
I would say that it's not that I'm necessarily picky about it, and I've entered plenty of tickets after getting reports in the forum or email or IRC or whatever. But someone else's current top priority may not be mine. I may not really understand the bug. And I think it's undeniable that the best way to make sure something doesn't fall through the cracks is to enter a ticket.
Matt
Like what happened here: http://openeuphoria.org/forum/118519.wc#118519
