OpenEuphoria

1. Euphoria should support/be supported by HaXe through CGI in the future.

• Posted by darkborn Jun 15, 2009
• 1290 views
• Last edited Jun 16, 2009

Well, everything is explained at a title:
Euphoria should (actively) support/be supported by HaXe through CGI in the future.
I mean as a ActionScript (Flash) alternative, and... well you'll figured out what I wanted to say. Here is why.
HaXe team made "Motion-Twin ActionScript Compiler" before, which is superior then original, proprietary.
Oh,
SVG (animation) & SMIL support is welcome too. Inkscape and MadSwatter are great.

3. Re: Euphoria should support/be supported by HaXe through CGI in the future.

• Posted by darkborn Jun 16, 2009
• 1272 views

Oh, I see.
You are dialectic one. How nice to spare your free time.
Ok, I'll explain for a slow ones:
One of the public promoted features of Euphoria are CGI web based content, or more detailed, "Web-based (CGI, FastCGI and SCGI) programs".
Except this forum and few noble exceptions, THERE ARE NO EUPHORIA DRIVEN SITES WIDE SPREAD OVER WEB.
Which does not mean that Euphoria is not powerful, just the opposite.
On the other hand, there are bunch of AS (flash) based sites, written by script kids, and so on.
Obviously, there are some circumstances which led to this situation.
It could be a) many bucks inserted at popularization of platform, b) easy or effective dev. enviroment, c) else.
a) You got so many millions to promote Euphoria? Oh, lucky you. Buy Adobe, for beginning.
b) You think that Euphoria lacks as a background for CGI? Neither I.
c) Then, you have to move some strategic move. How about Synergy?
Remember: I said "in the future".
With that, I mean when circumstances will be ehm.. good enough. It means when bunch of works which is now "to do" became "done".
The question is: when it will be done (hope not to late)? However, smart one is planning before moment he has to act.
IMHO, CGI & web is the (bright) future of Euphoria; however Euphoria is much more then that.
There are plenty of new talented generations of which are not interested at e.g. DOS, and they didn't even heard about Euphoria. However, "Flash is cool", AS rulz and so on. When they have to pay, they will turn... at haXe, probably. I suppose that haXe will soon have hundreds of sources, and this is where it become interesting: (This is what you cut out) Sources could be re-compiled to many (mostly script "web" based) languages. But why not Euphoria? At least, at the rudimentary, logic level. E.g. if somebody find nice Pacman-clone haXe source, intended to be compiled as AS, he could "translate" it to Euphoria, and improve it as he wants as a "standard" platform program.
On the other hand, Euphoria will become much more desirable if you could translate your own program to became e.g. AS (flash) web-game, through haXe. And what about CGI scripts? Compatibility is remarkable thing. :)
IMHO, CGI possibilities of Euphoria should be expanded, possibly to the vector based active content, but in a way of simplicity.
Conclusion: I think that haXe is NOT a competitor to Euphoria; but it could help in promotion as a "ActionScript (etc) wrapper".

Really, how do you see that working? Except that you have included "svg.e" to output SVG data. You know about some other way to use it?Tell us about it, please.
I was talking hypothetically, and I was certainly not asking you to write the code. I just think that it could be nice to hear opinion of community (before somebody - me? - starts coding).

Really what? Let's see.

SVG stands for scalable vector graphic. SMIL is a way to achieve SVG animation. Both open standard.
Inkscape is the most popular SVG editor. MadSwatter is SVG animation editor. Both open source.
DOES ANYBODY SEE RELATIONS BETWEEN INKSCAPE, SVG, SMIL, MADSWATTER? If so, please help Derek.
The message was about possible relations between Euphoria and haXe, through CGI implemenations. HaXe is well known as a supplement of AS, which is base of Flash vector based CGI (web) platform. However, Flash interpreters are proprietary, not open source.
Possible open source Flash/AS alternatives are haXe and SVG.

Derek, I hope that you're not main developer of Euphoria.

5. Re: Euphoria should support/be supported by HaXe through CGI in the future.

• Posted by jeremy (admin) Jun 16, 2009
• 1230 views

Because we say we support web based applications does not mean that it is a primary goal of Euphoria nor that Euphoria is just as popular as PHP for web based applications. Besides, how do you know there are not more? Many of my web applications that I write end in the extension .html and are all dynamically executed via FastCGI or SCGI. Some w/Euphoria as the back end, others with Java/PHP.

Euphoria is not yet a popular language. It spent the vast majority of it's time as the commercial work of one person. Just recently in it's life was it open sourced. Sure, we have plans of promoting it but they start with getting Euphoria out in the public as a general purpose language. Our major goal is not to make Euphoria the next best web platform. Thousands upon thousands of languages, web stacks and methods exist for such.

No, we do not have millions to invest, in fact, I think we have enough for our monthly web host to invest. If you wish to contribute some, maybe we could by adobe?

Jeremy

7. Re: Euphoria should support/be supported by HaXe through CGI in the future.

• Posted by irv Jun 16, 2009
• 1174 views

Why? Haxe claims to be a programming language. Why does it need support from Euphoria?

9. Re: Euphoria should support/be supported by HaXe through CGI in the future.

• Posted by Lnettnay Jun 16, 2009
• 1219 views

OK, no offense.
My apologies to Derek; just don't like when somebody threat me like I'm Forrest Gump
I suggested it hypothetically. Still thinks that synergy is as great thing... and there are some similarities/compatibilities between haXe/Euphoria.

Pity is that Euphoria's web abilities are not better known. IMHO, I'm sure that you can do just anything you want wrapping it with e.g. PHP; but most kids will spend time learning handling "ready made" e.g. Joomla instead try to get it with Euphoria.

I agree with you 100%. Euphoria should stay general purpose language. This is why I suggested haXe, as a somekind of web "add-on" to Euphoria. HaXe just looks flexible enough and has a good reputation (MTASC).
The fact is that many of wanna-be-web-designers tries to sell their story with Web2/Flash based/multimedia/blahblahblah; and they succeed! When potentional contractor see some nice, simple vector animated intro - story is sold! What is driven behind... who cares.
I don't like the situation in which monopole on (web based) vector graphic has one player with some proprietary patent. Team about haXe tried to change this paradigm (and they almost suceed with MTASC), that's all about haXe.
I'll definitely buy Adobe, just tell me how.

Nope. Euphoria IS and should stay (as Jeremy said) general purpose language. HaXe (IMHO) wants to be open source ActionScript replacer. Generic OO script language for web, with multimedia abilities, actually. It is not comparable to "real" language, and it needs some "hook" to become one. As I saw at wiki, they are working on C compiler. Well, they could also make some brench to Euphoria. On the other hand, Euphoria could profit from some multimedia abilities. It leads to popularity -> wider userbase -> more developers -> all happy.

Exactly! This is what I wanted to say (just I'm a clumsy). But some wrapper (mid-layer) could be nice. I'll like situation in which I could use some Euphoric sequence-loop to produce nifty vector animation, and be able to use it through haXe.

11. Re: Euphoria should support/be supported by HaXe through CGI in the future.

• Posted by darkborn Jun 18, 2009
• 1255 views
• Last edited Jun 19, 2009

Exactly. You understood it very well. I "mixed" it because these projects interferes each other. Well, priorities should be checked.

1. is mostly suspicious one to me; it sounds... weird (probably because of my lack of English). Let's say it this way: if we achieve e.g. vector-based capabilities, then it will be good to have "tools environment" for those new capabilities. I agree with that.
   
2. is OK. But note should be at vector-based capabilities, not web pages.
   Unfortunately, there are two "main" vector standards: SVG (+SMIL), and SWF.
   SVG standard is used often offline (e.g. Inkscape, Scribus, FontForge, Potrace, OpenOffice). SMIL (as animated SVG) standard is OK, because it is - animation standard for SVG. But IMO Euphoria is powerful enough so doesn't really needs SMIL. Danger is just to look like as "forcing new standard": there are already e.g. Salasaga, Synfig, MadSwatter, Ikivo animator, to name few. All forcing their own standard, incompatible with SMIL. My opinion is that Euphoria should have native capability (e.g. through standard library) for producing/manipulating SVGs. With SVG animation standard we should be careful.
   Other common vector standard is proprietary, mostly closed source SWF aka Flash, produced by ActionScript language. It is basically used at web pages, but more and more as a base for standalone applications through SWF2EXE "projectors". I can't see how Euphoria could extend capabilities to support SWF directly. It is possible through some CGI framework, of course. IMHO, it is possible with #4. - ability to translate Euphoria applications into HaXe "applications". HaXe - as a meta language - already has ability to translate into SWF - ActionScript (and more). If we call this meta-language application, we could translate Euphoria source (application?) to haXe application. It will end with Euphoria ability to produce (through "haXe layer") "more then ActionScript". So, why should anybody learn AS when he can do more & easily by Euphoria? OK, this is just a possible projection.
   
3. is for must! It is also complementary with #5. I think that HaXe needs "serious", generic platform as an "anchor for earth". Through HaXe someone is able to produce SWF games like these: http://www.jeanffy.com/haxe (from Projects Using haXe). It is fun, and probably easy. But, this could be done - and much, much more - through Euphoria; but Euphoria does not need an anchor. Just "image" of "much more then ActionScript".