1. suggestion sequence section
- Posted by gertie at visionsix.com
Feb 07, 2003
Can we get:
s = "abcdefgh"
x = "1..2"
? s[x]
This only borders on string execution.
Kat
2. Re: suggestion sequence section
> s = "abcdefgh"
> x = "1..2"
> ? s[x]
>
> This only borders on string execution.
I'm sure there's a reason, so I want to know why you can't go:
s = "abcdefgh"
x = 1
y = 2
?s[x..y]
or use an eXtractSequence function:
s = "abcdefgh"
x = "1..2"
? es( s, x )
where x can be an object... you'll just have to parse it out, which won't be
too difficult.
I think the results you want can be obtained, but maybe not the way you want
to obtain them...?
3. Re: suggestion sequence section
- Posted by gertie at visionsix.com
Feb 07, 2003
On 7 Feb 2003, at 15:53, C. K. Lester wrote:
>
> > s = "abcdefgh"
> > x = "1..2"
> > ? s[x]
> >
> > This only borders on string execution.
>
> I'm sure there's a reason, so I want to know why you can't go:
>
> s = "abcdefgh"
> x = 1
> y = 2
> ?s[x..y]
>
> or use an eXtractSequence function:
>
> s = "abcdefgh"
> x = "1..2"
> ? es( s, x )
>
> where x can be an object... you'll just have to parse it out, which won't be
> too
> difficult.
Doing that now, simple matches and tests for type. What is your arguement
against my suggestion to include this form in the language, where it could be
done faster?
> I think the results you want can be obtained, but maybe not the way you want
> to
> obtain them...?
That can be said for almost anything. It's so good to know anything i suggest
will be shot down, saves me from expecting anything till next year when
someone else suggests it and it's accepted at that time. I am aware people
will dismiss anything i say, merely because i am the one saying it, but at
least the idea is out there, and someone else can add it to their calendar to
bring it up again next year.
Kat
4. Re: suggestion sequence section
On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 03:53:57PM -0600, C. K. Lester wrote:
>
> > s = "abcdefgh"
> > x = "1..2"
> > ? s[x]
> >
> > This only borders on string execution.
>
> I'm sure there's a reason, so I want to know why you can't go:
>
> s = "abcdefgh"
> x = 1
> y = 2
> ?s[x..y]
>
> or use an eXtractSequence function:
>
> s = "abcdefgh"
> x = "1..2"
> ? es( s, x )
>
> where x can be an object... you'll just have to parse it out, which won't be
> too difficult.
>
> I think the results you want can be obtained, but maybe not the way you want
> to obtain them...?
Or you can do what I did and write a parser to convert all s[x] to es(s, x),
if you must have that syntax.
Or, if you really want it in the interpreter, ask for it in the openeu mailing
list,
as it seems unlikely that RC will add such new inovative things in the
mainstream
interpreter.
jbrown
>
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
--
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5. Re: suggestion sequence section
- Posted by gertie at visionsix.com
Feb 07, 2003
On 7 Feb 2003, at 17:34, jbrown1050 at hotpop.com wrote:
>
> On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 03:53:57PM -0600, C. K. Lester wrote:
> >
> > > s = "abcdefgh"
> > > x = "1..2"
> > > ? s[x]
> > >
> > > This only borders on string execution.
> >
> > I'm sure there's a reason, so I want to know why you can't go:
> >
> > s = "abcdefgh"
> > x = 1
> > y = 2
> > ?s[x..y]
> >
> > or use an eXtractSequence function:
> >
> > s = "abcdefgh"
> > x = "1..2"
> > ? es( s, x )
> >
> > where x can be an object... you'll just have to parse it out, which won't be
> > too difficult.
> >
> > I think the results you want can be obtained, but maybe not the way you want
> > to obtain them...?
>
> Or you can do what I did and write a parser to convert all s[x] to es(s, x),
> if
> you must have that syntax.
>
> Or, if you really want it in the interpreter, ask for it in the openeu mailing
> list, as it seems unlikely that RC will add such new inovative things in the
> mainstream interpreter.
I un-subbed from that list months ago, nothing i suggested was acceptable. I
can get all the rejection i need here, thanks.
Kat
6. Re: suggestion sequence section
On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 05:19:22PM -0600, gertie at visionsix.com wrote:
<snip>
>
> I un-subbed from that list months ago, nothing i suggested was acceptable. I
> can get all the rejection i need here, thanks.
>
> Kat
Actually, thats not exactly true (for example an eval statment is being
discussed on,
which was originally your idea iirc, every person and every idea is welcome),
however, the list often does have an atmostphere full
of debate, if you take it too personally then it probably is for the best that
you stay off of there. (No offense, but you appear to take A LOT of things
personally. Not exactly the best trait for a heavily argumental democratic
language
designing group.)
jbrown
>
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
--
/"\ ASCII ribbon |
\ / campain against | Linux User:190064
X HTML in e-mail and | Linux Machine:84163
/*\ news, and unneeded MIME |
7. Re: suggestion sequence section
On Friday 07 February 2003 04:29 pm, you wrote:
>
> Doing that now, simple matches and tests for type. What is your argueme=
nt
> against my suggestion to include this form in the language, where it co=
uld
> be done faster?
Well, my questions are:
1. would it be truly faster, and if so, how much faster?
2. would it be easier to code?
> > I think the results you want can be obtained, but maybe not the way y=
ou
> > want to obtain them...?
>
> That can be said for almost anything.
Except goto's... ;)
> It's so good to know anything i
> suggest will be shot down...
The fact is, until I understand more clearly where you're coming from, of=
=20
COURSE I'm going to suggest alternate methods/algorithms. I expect ANYBOD=
Y=20
who asks a question about EUPHORIA on this list would be willing to accep=
t=20
answers to the positive and/or negative, including suggestions for how to=
do=20
something differently than proposed. Since I wasn't clear on what you wer=
e=20
currently doing, I offered a "work around" for the moment. You obviously=20
didn't need that. Shall I assume in the future that your questions are=20
rhetorical, because nobody can seem to offer you a pleasant enough answer=
=2E
> saves me from expecting anything till next year
> when someone else suggests it and it's accepted at that time.
How about in the future you contact someone on the list and ask them to p=
ost a=20
suggestion for you? Then maybe you'll see all your wonderful ideas come t=
o=20
fruition!
8. Re: suggestion sequence section
- Posted by gertie at visionsix.com
Feb 08, 2003
On 7 Feb 2003, at 21:16, C. K. Lester wrote:
>
> On Friday 07 February 2003 04:29 pm, you wrote:
> >
> > Doing that now, simple matches and tests for type. What is your
arguement
> > against my suggestion to include this form in the language, where it
could be
> > done faster?
>
> Well, my questions are:
>
> 1. would it be truly faster, and if so, how much faster?
I don't know.
> 2. would it be easier to code?
Not if you have the procedure already written.
> > > I think the results you want can be obtained, but maybe not the way
you want
> > > to obtain them...?
> >
> > That can be said for almost anything.
>
> Except goto's... ;)
Making every line a separate procedure works.
> > It's so good to know anything i
> > suggest will be shot down...
>
> The fact is, until I understand more clearly where you're coming from,
of
> COURSE I'm going to suggest alternate methods/algorithms.
The lines of examples i gave were clear enough, which of them did you not
understand? Oh, nevermind.
> I expect ANYBODY who
> asks a question about EUPHORIA on this list would be willing to accept
answers
> to the positive and/or negative, including suggestions for how to do
something
> differently than proposed. Since I wasn't clear on what you were
currently
> doing, I offered a "work around" for the moment. You obviously didn't
need that.
> Shall I assume in the future that your questions are rhetorical, because
nobody
> can seem to offer you a pleasant enough answer.
You wouldn't believe the crap i get for making suggestions.
me: lets add a line to the notice to inform users about the whatever when
that happens
them: no, i don't want to, you sit in here and answer them when they make
the effort to come in and ask you about it every time the service is used.
me: there is a bug in services
them: no it's your mirc and windows computer
<flame war ensues for 6 months>
somebody_else: there is a bug in services, i use nix
them: oh, there is a bug in servcies, thanks, somebody_else, i'll check it
out
now!
> > saves me from expecting anything till next year
> > when someone else suggests it and it's accepted at that time.
>
> How about in the future you contact someone on the list and ask them to
post a
> suggestion for you? Then maybe you'll see all your wonderful ideas come
to
> fruition!
Tried that. When it wasn't mangled in the in-between, it was generally
accepted. Goto <flame war ensues for 6 months> above.
Kat
9. Re: suggestion sequence section
Kat,
nothing is set in concrete yet.
We have been discussing things in detail.
In the next day or so I'll be introducing another discussion topic -
namingly run time evaluation of code that is in strings or files.
Other topic still to be discussed include GOTO, Labels, Case statements, and
many others.
We are building (slowly) a language specification. From that, we hope to
encourage people to create implementations of the language.
----------------
cheers,
Derek Parnell
----- Original Message -----
From: <gertie at visionsix.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: suggestion sequence section
>
> On 7 Feb 2003, at 17:34, jbrown1050 at hotpop.com wrote:
>
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 03:53:57PM -0600, C. K. Lester wrote:
> > >
> > > > s = "abcdefgh"
> > > > x = "1..2"
> > > > ? s[x]
> > > >
> > > > This only borders on string execution.
> > >
> > > I'm sure there's a reason, so I want to know why you can't go:
> > >
> > > s = "abcdefgh"
> > > x = 1
> > > y = 2
> > > ?s[x..y]
> > >
> > > or use an eXtractSequence function:
> > >
> > > s = "abcdefgh"
> > > x = "1..2"
> > > ? es( s, x )
> > >
> > > where x can be an object... you'll just have to parse it out, which
won't be
> > > too difficult.
> > >
> > > I think the results you want can be obtained, but maybe not the way
you want
> > > to obtain them...?
> >
> > Or you can do what I did and write a parser to convert all s[x] to es(s,
x), if
> > you must have that syntax.
> >
> > Or, if you really want it in the interpreter, ask for it in the openeu
mailing
> > list, as it seems unlikely that RC will add such new inovative things in
the
> > mainstream interpreter.
>
> I un-subbed from that list months ago, nothing i suggested was acceptable.
I
> can get all the rejection i need here, thanks.
>
> Kat
>
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>
10. Re: suggestion sequence section
gertie at visionsix.com wrote:
> Can we get:
>
> s = "abcdefgh"
> x = "1..2"
> ? s[x]
That's equivalent to ? s[{49,46,46,50}] which other people have requested
return a sequence containing the 49th, 46th, 46th again and 50th elements of
s[].
Which interpretation is better? Discuss. :)
--
[ Carl R White == aka () = The Domain of Cyrek = ]
[ Cyrek the Illogical /\ www.cyreksoft.yorks.com ]
11. Re: suggestion sequence section
Oh boy.
Well, I like them both.
But my preference is put on
s[{49,46,46,50}] = s[49] & s[46] & s[46] & s[50]
The error message could be tricky to code though.
Guess it would be like...
Trying to index 50 in a length 49 sequence 50 > 49
or whatever it is that is closest to Robert Craig's
error current message.
Lucius L. Hilley III
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W." <euphoria at cyreksoft.yorks.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 07:31 AM
Subject: Re: suggestion sequence section
>
> gertie at visionsix.com wrote:
>
> > Can we get:
> >
> > s = "abcdefgh"
> > x = "1..2"
> > ? s[x]
>
> That's equivalent to ? s[{49,46,46,50}] which other people have requested
> return a sequence containing the 49th, 46th, 46th again and 50th elements
of
> s[].
>
> Which interpretation is better? Discuss. :)
>
> --
> [ Carl R White == aka () = The Domain of Cyrek = ]
> [ Cyrek the Illogical /\ www.cyreksoft.yorks.com ]
>
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>
>
12. Re: suggestion sequence section
Carl W. wrote:
> gertie at visionsix.com wrote:
>
> > s = "abcdefgh"
> > x = "1..2"
> > ? s[x]
>
> That's equivalent to ? s[{49,46,46,50}] which other people have
> requested return a sequence containing the 49th, 46th, 46th again and
> 50th elements of s[].
>
> Which interpretation is better? Discuss. :)
I know I'm replying to myself here, but a third interpretation occurred to
me after reading Lucius' response:
String parse (Kat):
s["1..2"] --> s[1..2]
Element selection (Lucius):
s[{49,46,46,50}] --> s[49] & s[46] & s[46] & s[50]
Multidimensional access:
s[{49,46,46,50}] --> s[49][46][46][50]
_Now_ which is the better interpretation? Aargh!! :)
Here's an (untested) code snippet that tries to roll all three into one:
include get.e -- needed for value()
type intseq(object o) -- sequence of integers
if atom(o) then return 0 end if -- atom != sequence
for x = 1 to length(o) do -- this loop is skipped if length is zero
if not integer o[x] then return 0 end if
end for
return 1
end type
type intseqinseq(object o) if sequence(o) and
length(o) = 1 and
intseq(o[1])
then return 1 end if return 0 end if end type
function rerange(object i, integer len)
-- Used to avoid errors with badly ranged subscripts
if sequence(i) then return 1
elsif i < 0 then return len + i + 1
elsif i = 0 then return 1
elsif i > len then return len
end if return i
endf if
function si(sequence s, object i)
-- Usage: si(s, atom) -- returns s[atom]
-- si(s, "1..2") -- returns s[1..2]
-- si(s, {integer, integer...}) where there are no consecutive
46's
-- returns s[integer1] & s[integer2] & etc.
-- si(s, { {integer, integer...} }) -- returns
s[integer1][integer2]...
object i1, i2
integer len, ddot
len = length(s)
if not len then return {} end if -- can't index nothing!
if atom(i) then
return s[rerange(i,len)]
elsif intseq(i) then
ddot = match("..", i) -- Kat's "x..y"
if ddot then
i1 = value(i[1..ddot-1]) i1 = rerange(i1[1],len)
i2 = value(i[ddot+2..len]) i2 = rerange(i2[1],len)
-- swap if bad slice NB: s[n..n-1] is valid so is left alone
if i2+1 < i1 then ddot = i1 i1 = i2 i2 = ddot end if
return s[i1..i2]
end if
i1 = {} -- Lucius' element selection
for x = 1 to len do
i1 = append(i1, s[rerange(i[x],len)])
end for
return i1
elsif intseqinseq(i) then -- Dimension stepping...
i1 = s
for x = 1 to len do
if sequence(i1) then
i1 = i1[rerange(i[x],length(i1))]
else
-- Not enough dimensions!
return {}
end if
end for
return i1
else
-- 'i' is badly formatted!
return {}
end if
end function
Carl
--
[ Carl R White == aka () = The Domain of Cyrek = ]
[ Cyrek the Illogical /\ www.cyreksoft.yorks.com ]
13. Re: suggestion sequence section
- Posted by gertie at visionsix.com
Feb 11, 2003
On 11 Feb 2003, at 11:56, Carl W. wrote:
>
> Carl W. wrote:
>
> > gertie at visionsix.com wrote:
> >
> > > s = "abcdefgh"
> > > x = "1..2"
> > > ? s[x]
> >
> > That's equivalent to ? s[{49,46,46,50}] which other people have
> > requested return a sequence containing the 49th, 46th, 46th again and
> > 50th elements of s[].
> >
> > Which interpretation is better? Discuss. :)
I would really like to use the [ ] as delimiters for a range, but the programmer
would need to remember to put them in quotes, anyhow, so i was dropping
their use in strtok, and using the quotes alone. The problem is when you mix
what i said and what Lucious said below......
> I know I'm replying to myself here, but a third interpretation occurred to
> me after reading Lucius' response:
>
> String parse (Kat):
> s["1..2"] --> s[1..2]
>
> Element selection (Lucius):
> s[{49,46,46,50}] --> s[49] & s[46] & s[46] & s[50]
>
> Multidimensional access:
> s[{49,46,46,50}] --> s[49][46][46][50]
>
> _Now_ which is the better interpretation? Aargh!! :)
In strtok, I went with what i did there. But i also went with what Lucious said.
There is a problem with typecasting tho, and i am a long way from done with
it. In my opinion, if i cast a atom, add it to a sequence, i want to be able to
pick that atom off the front of the sequence as an atom, like:
s = gettok(s,{atom&".."&atom},32)
But both atoms become sequence types when gettok gets them. So i don't
think your type intseq below will work as (i) expected (but i didn't try, i'm
*really* distracted atm). Making things more versatile, for ease of use and
being bulletproof, means using value() and sprintf(), dragging down execution
speed. Derek tossed me an idea, which i will be trying asap, but prolly not
today. A local MD was dragging a scalpel thru my back for an hour this
morning, so you can see i have things on my mind, and taped to my back.
Sorry about being not up to par for now.
Kat
