1. $100.00 Programming Contest
At the request of an anonymous donor,
we are going to have an official Programming Contest,
with $100 of MicroEconomy money for prizes.
I just posted the contest rules at:
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com/contest.htm
I expect there will be some questions and
some need of clarification. Let me know.
In consultation with the donor, we decided
to have 3 separate contests, so that beginners
and intermediate programmers would have more of a chance
to win something. The assumption is that the Gurus,
for reasons of ego and greed, will all try to win the
prestigious $50 "hard" contest. 
The donor also wanted a contest that would not
exclude any platform (especially Linux), so the
problems to be solved do not require any special features,
GUI's etc. of any one platform.
Have fun. The contest ends March 31.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
2. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 01, 2002
You need to read the docs on this first CK.
ou cant enter but one contest.
Euman
euman at bellsouth.net
Q: Are we monetarily insane?
A: YES
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. K. Lester" <cklester at yahoo.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: RE: $100.00 Programming Contest
>
> I hope nobody gets mad when I win all $100...
>
> > At the request of an anonymous donor,
> > we are going to have an official Programming Contest,
> > with $100 of MicroEconomy money for prizes.
>
>
>
>
3. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 01, 2002
hmmm, the hard one
Will this text file have white spaces or is it compact
Euman
euman at bellsouth.net
Q: Are we monetarily insane?
A: YES
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Craig" <rds at RapidEuphoria.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: $100.00 Programming Contest
>
> At the request of an anonymous donor,
> we are going to have an official Programming Contest,
> with $100 of MicroEconomy money for prizes.
>
> I just posted the contest rules at:
>
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com/contest.htm
>
> I expect there will be some questions and
> some need of clarification. Let me know.
>
> In consultation with the donor, we decided
> to have 3 separate contests, so that beginners
> and intermediate programmers would have more of a chance
> to win something. The assumption is that the Gurus,
> for reasons of ego and greed, will all try to win the
> prestigious $50 "hard" contest.
>
> The donor also wanted a contest that would not
> exclude any platform (especially Linux), so the
> problems to be solved do not require any special features,
> GUI's etc. of any one platform.
>
> Have fun. The contest ends March 31.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
>
>
>
>
4. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
Fun idea Robert. However, I won't be entering the competition, though if I
find some time I find submit something just for fun.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Craig" <rds at RapidEuphoria.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: $100.00 Programming Contest
>
> At the request of an anonymous donor,
> we are going to have an official Programming Contest,
> with $100 of MicroEconomy money for prizes.
>
> I just posted the contest rules at:
>
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com/contest.htm
>
> I expect there will be some questions and
> some need of clarification. Let me know.
>
> In consultation with the donor, we decided
> to have 3 separate contests, so that beginners
> and intermediate programmers would have more of a chance
> to win something. The assumption is that the Gurus,
> for reasons of ego and greed, will all try to win the
> prestigious $50 "hard" contest.
>
> The donor also wanted a contest that would not
> exclude any platform (especially Linux), so the
> problems to be solved do not require any special features,
> GUI's etc. of any one platform.
>
> Have fun. The contest ends March 31.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
>
>
>
>
5. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 01, 2002
Let me help the Winner out some then CK
TABLE 1
______________________________________
The Twelve Most Common English Words
WORD MEASURED FREQUENCY
CUMULATIVE FREQUENCY
______________________________________
the 6.899 6.899
of 3.590 10.489
and 2.845 13.334
to 2.578 15.912
a 2.291 18.203
in 2.104 20.307
that 1.045 21.352
was 0.995 22.347
he 0.968 23.315
for 0.941 24.256
it 0.936 25.192
with 0.863 26.055
______________________________________
there ya go, this should make it interesting shouldnt it Rob....
Euman
euman at bellsouth.net
Q: Are we monetarily insane?
A: YES
----- Original Message -----
From: "Euman" <euman at bellsouth.net>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
> hmmm, the hard one
>
> Will this text file have white spaces or is it compact
>
> Euman
> euman at bellsouth.net
>
> Q: Are we monetarily insane?
> A: YES
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Craig" <rds at RapidEuphoria.com>
> To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:22 PM
> Subject: $100.00 Programming Contest
>
>
> >
> > At the request of an anonymous donor,
> > we are going to have an official Programming Contest,
> > with $100 of MicroEconomy money for prizes.
> >
> > I just posted the contest rules at:
> >
> > http://www.RapidEuphoria.com/contest.htm
> >
> > I expect there will be some questions and
> > some need of clarification. Let me know.
> >
> > In consultation with the donor, we decided
> > to have 3 separate contests, so that beginners
> > and intermediate programmers would have more of a chance
> > to win something. The assumption is that the Gurus,
> > for reasons of ego and greed, will all try to win the
> > prestigious $50 "hard" contest.
> >
> > The donor also wanted a contest that would not
> > exclude any platform (especially Linux), so the
> > problems to be solved do not require any special features,
> > GUI's etc. of any one platform.
> >
> > Have fun. The contest ends March 31.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob Craig
> > Rapid Deployment Software
> > http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
6. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
I read this in the website
"Contestants may only enter one of the three contests below."
Sounds kinda specific to me.
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. K. Lester" <cklester at yahoo.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: RE: $100.00 Programming Contest
>
> euman at bellsouth.net wrote:
> > You need to read the docs on this first CK.
> >
> > You cant enter but one contest.
>
> It's not stated specifically anywhere that this is the case.
>
> Rob, if I can't enter each contest, you need to make that provision more
> obvious! :)
>
> Thanks!
> ck
>
> P.S. Don't make me create extra emails just to trick all you people.
> P.P.S. I'm just kiddin' in that P.S. comment. :P
>
>
>
>
7. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
Euman writes:
> Will this text file have white spaces or is it compact
It will have white space and punctuation.
Only the letters A-Z and a-z will be changed from
the original clear text.
I'll add that to the contest description.
Example:
Your program must try to convert this
coded message:
Af p xtrtfi yjxktn, 90% gu hxgvxpeetxy
xpits izteytdkty af izt igh 10% af pqadain.
back to the original clear text message:
In a recent survey, 90% of programmers
rated themselves in the top 10% in ability.
Although I expect to give you a larger chunk of
text to work with. Maybe 4 or 5 sentences.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
8. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
On 1 Mar 2002, at 16:31, euman at bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> Let me help the Winner out some then CK
>
> TABLE 1
> ______________________________________
> The Twelve Most Common English Words
> WORD MEASURED FREQUENCY
> CUMULATIVE FREQUENCY
> ______________________________________
> the 6.899 6.899
> of 3.590 10.489
> and 2.845 13.334
> to 2.578 15.912
> a 2.291 18.203
> in 2.104 20.307
> that 1.045 21.352
> was 0.995 22.347
> he 0.968 23.315
> for 0.941 24.256
> it 0.936 25.192
> with 0.863 26.055
> ______________________________________
>
> there ya go, this should make it interesting shouldnt it Rob....
What if no words you gave are within said sentence list given by RDS?
Note: no words you gave are in that question.
Kat
9. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 01, 2002
Then I suggest studying some of the code found here. Kat
http://www.cs.arizona.edu/http/html/people/muth/Cipher/
Euman
euman at bellsouth.net
Q: Are we monetarily insane?
A: YES
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kat" <gertie at PELL.NET>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
> On 1 Mar 2002, at 16:31, euman at bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> >
> > Let me help the Winner out some then CK
> >
> > TABLE 1
> > ______________________________________
> > The Twelve Most Common English Words
> > WORD MEASURED FREQUENCY
> > CUMULATIVE FREQUENCY
> > ______________________________________
> > the 6.899 6.899
> > of 3.590 10.489
> > and 2.845 13.334
> > to 2.578 15.912
> > a 2.291 18.203
> > in 2.104 20.307
> > that 1.045 21.352
> > was 0.995 22.347
> > he 0.968 23.315
> > for 0.941 24.256
> > it 0.936 25.192
> > with 0.863 26.055
> > ______________________________________
> >
> > there ya go, this should make it interesting shouldnt it Rob....
>
> What if no words you gave are within said sentence list given by RDS?
>
> Note: no words you gave are in that question.
>
> Kat
10. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
Contest #3 seems to be essentially a cryptogram solver. Way back I made
a cryptogram solver and it's on user contributions. But it's not very
good compared with a much better cryptogram solver that someone made in C
that uses a better method.
Jerry Story
11. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 01, 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Craig" <rds at RapidEuphoria.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
>
> Euman writes:
> > Will this text file have white spaces or is it compact
>
> It will have white space and punctuation.
> Only the letters A-Z and a-z will be changed from
> the original clear text.
> I'll add that to the contest description.
>
> Example:
> Your program must try to convert this
> coded message:
>
> Af p xtrtfi yjxktn, 90% gu hxgvxpeetxy
> xpits izteytdkty af izt igh 10% af pqadain.
BEST TRIGRAM
ORIGINAL
17,1,0,26,18,19,21,8,20,16,23,12,24,7,10,4,22,14,5,6,3,15,25,2,11,9,13,
Mono: 131307 Trig: -74960 Dict:0
auqvqkcecupqiwklcjqqqqqqhoqtkhykvssckiqkvpcfqpmcsicrlciqauqpmcqphtqqqqqauqvnarapjqq
AFTER STAT
0,1,7,26,13,12,14,15,16,20,21,2,10,17,25,11,9,3,22,4,5,23,6,24,18,19,8,
Mono: 663517 Trig: 35840 Dict:30
an i revent surbey ow profrillers rited thelsembes an the
top an icamaty
AFTER DICT
0,9,6,26,12,13,14,15,16,20,21,22,10,17,25,11,1,2,3,4,5,23,7,24,18,19,8,
Mono: 661292 Trig: 33279 Dict:112
in a recent survey ow programmers rated themselves in the
top in ability
BEST DICTIONARY
ORIGINAL
0,1,26,17,21,18,8,19,12,20,16,23,10,24,4,22,14,7,6,3,5,2,25,11,15,9,13,
Mono: 674541 Trig: -6010 Dict:14
ah n oefeht ipowed sb losyonrreoi ontec tmerieuwei ah tme
tsl ah ngauatd
AFTER STAT
0,9,26,17,12,13,14,15,23,20,1,22,10,24,25,2,21,16,3,4,5,6,7,11,18,19,8,
Mono: 653478 Trig: 34115 Dict:58
in u recent sarvey of wrogrummers ruted themselves in the
tow in upility
AFTER DICT
0,9,26,17,12,13,14,15,16,20,21,22,10,24,25,23,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,11,18,19,8,
Mono: 661150 Trig: 33710 Dict:112
in a recent survey 90% of programmers rated themselves in the
top 10% in ability
>
> back to the original clear text message:
>
> In a recent survey, 90% of programmers
> rated themselves in the top 10% in ability.
>
> Although I expect to give you a larger chunk of
> text to work with. Maybe 4 or 5 sentences.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
12. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
A couple questions:
0. Will all words appear in Junko's dictionary?
1. Does case matter? That is, the encrypted string "This is encrypted" and
"THIS IS ENCRYPTED" are essentially the same thing.
2. Can anything that isn't a character (other than apostrophes) be treated as
whitespace? For example:
"This-is encrypted!\n\n"
is basically:
{ "THIS", "IS", "ENCRYPTED" }
This would disallow having to deal with apostrophes:
can't
they're
and hyphens:
reddish-blue
would just become a pair of dictionary words.
Of course, I'm assuming that you want the output formatted the same as the
inputs.
3. How many words are in the input sentances?
Thanks!
-- David Cuny
13. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 01, 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cuny" <dcuny at LANSET.COM>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
>A couple questions:
>3. How many words are in the input sentances?
That would be cheating DC
14. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
I'm curious how the "goodness" of a particular solution will be evaluated.
Once strings are parsed into tokens (fairly trivial), there are a number of
different approaches you could take, all of which are legitimate.
Assuming that a dozen people submit a "winning" program, what criteria do you
then use? Points for clever recursion, less lines of code, speed, or being
the closest to the solution that Robert's written?
One other thing - just because a sentance can be decrypted into legal words
doesn't guarantee that it's correct. For example, 'j' and 'v' are fairly
uncommon. So if the word was "jibe" and we translated it "vibe", is it still
a good solution (assuming all the other words were 'translated' as well)?
-- David Cuny
15. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
On 1 Mar 2002, at 18:01, euman at bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> Then I suggest studying some of the code found here. Kat
>
> http://www.cs.arizona.edu/http/html/people/muth/Cipher/
Well, ok, but i was solving advanced double-sub cyphers in my head when i
was a teen. Typically, i would solve the most difficult cyphers in 1/2 the
alloted time (with pen and paper), even when the code was working against
the "most common whatever" profiles. I'm no longer as swooft as i once was,
but in the intervening time, i've learned how to tell the puters to do my
thinking for me.
The problem with this contest is as David mentioned, the evaluation of
"winning" is subjective. And by any one or two measures, there are people
here who will royally beat the socks off you and me, Euman.
A question David left off: What if the program uses Karl's interpreter?
Kat
> Euman
> euman at bellsouth.net
>
> Q: Are we monetarily insane?
> A: YES
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kat" <gertie at PELL.NET>
> To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
>
> > On 1 Mar 2002, at 16:31, euman at bellsouth.net wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Let me help the Winner out some then CK
> > >
> > > TABLE 1
> > > ______________________________________
> > > The Twelve Most Common English Words
> > > WORD MEASURED FREQUENCY
> > > CUMULATIVE FREQUENCY
> > > ______________________________________
> > > the 6.899 6.899
> > > of 3.590 10.489
> > > and 2.845 13.334
> > > to 2.578 15.912
> > > a 2.291 18.203
> > > in 2.104 20.307
> > > that 1.045 21.352
> > > was 0.995 22.347
> > > he 0.968 23.315
> > > for 0.941 24.256
> > > it 0.936 25.192
> > > with 0.863 26.055
> > > ______________________________________
> > >
> > > there ya go, this should make it interesting shouldnt it Rob....
> >
> > What if no words you gave are within said sentence list given by RDS?
> >
> > Note: no words you gave are in that question.
> >
> > Kat
>
>
>
>
16. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 01, 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kat" <gertie at PELL.NET>
> The problem with this contest is as David mentioned, the evaluation of
> "winning" is subjective. And by any one or two measures, there are people
> here who will royally beat the socks off you and me, Euman.
I agree Kat thats why Im not going to waste my time with it. Im like Derek
I might try something just for fun....
>
> A question David left off: What if the program uses Karl's interpreter?
>
> Kat
17. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:59:27 -0500, euman at bellsouth.net wrote:
>
>hmmm, the hard one
>
>Will this text file have white spaces or is it compact
>
I quote "blanks, tabs and punctuation characters have been left alone"
You need to read the docs! ;->>
Pete
18. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 01, 2002
Well I guess that would be fine but Robert already changed the damn thing...
;-p
It wasnt like that before I said this......
So Pete whoever, "whatever!"
Euman
euman at bellsouth.net
Q: Are we monetarily insane?
A: YES
----- Original Message -----
From: <petelomax at blueyonder.co.uk>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:59:27 -0500, euman at bellsouth.net wrote:
>
>hmmm, the hard one
>
>Will this text file have white spaces or is it compact
>
I quote "blanks, tabs and punctuation characters have been left alone"
You need to read the docs! ;->>
Pete
19. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
David Cuny writes:
> 0. Will all words appear in Junko's dictionary?
Not necessarily, but you can count on the vast majority
of them being there, say 90% or more.
> 1. Does case matter? That is, the encrypted
> string "This is encrypted" and
> "THIS IS ENCRYPTED" are essentially the same thing.
You'll know the case from the case of letters in the input.
Your output should have the same case.
Maybe I don't understand what you mean.
> 2. Can anything that isn't a character (other than apostrophes)
> be treated as whitespace? For example:
>
> "This-is encrypted!\n\n"
>
>is basically:
>
> { "THIS", "IS", "ENCRYPTED" }
Junko's dictionary does contain some hyphenated words.
A hyphen could be considered part of a word,
but in many cases it could be considered a separator
between two words. Maybe I'll defer for now the decision about
whether to include hyphenated words in the input.
> This would disallow having to deal with apostrophes:
>
> can't
> they're
The above two words are in her dictionary as one word.
> and hyphens:
>
> reddish-blue
>
> would just become a pair of dictionary words.
"reddish-blue" is not in her dictionary, but "reddish" and "blue" are.
I guess if your program has trouble with hyphens, apostrophes etc.,
it could just ignore those words, at least initially.
> Of course, I'm assuming that you want the output formatted
> the same as the inputs.
Yes.
> 3. How many words are in the input sentances?
I don't think the length of a sentence matters very much,
but I was thinking of testing competing programs on a
variety of inputs, from one to 5 typical length sentences.
It depends on how good the programs are.
> I'm curious how the "goodness" of a particular solution
> will be evaluated. Once strings are parsed into tokens
> (fairly trivial), there are a number of
> different approaches you could take, all of which are legitimate.
> Assuming that a dozen people submit a "winning" program,
> what criteria do you then use? Points for clever recursion,
> less lines of code, speed, or being the closest to the solution
> that Robert's written?
I was thinking of running the competing programs on
several input texts of various lengths, and deciding the winner
based on the number of correct words in the output.
I don't want to use any subjective measures of goodness.
By the way, I haven't solved this problem myself.
I started to work on it many years ago, and found it intriguing,
but I didn't get very far.
> One other thing - just because a sentance can be decrypted
> into legal words doesn't guarantee that it's correct.
> For example, 'j' and 'v' are fairly uncommon. So if the
> word was "jibe" and we translated it "vibe", is it still
> a good solution (assuming all the other words were
> 'translated' as well)?
I'll be judging based on what the input text actually was,
not on what it could possibly have been.
Kat writes:
> A question David left off: What if the program uses Karl's interpreter?
The donor requested that winning entries must
run on the standard RDS Euphoria 2.3 interpreter.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
20. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
Euman wrote:
>>3. How many words are in the input sentances?
>
> That would be cheating DC
I meant as a measure of how large the data set of words we'd be working with.
For example, no more than 400 words, etc.
Wowf. I wrote "sentances"? Time to start using my spell checker.
-- David Cuny
21. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 01, 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cuny" <dcuny at LANSET.COM>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Euman wrote:
>>>3. How many words are in the input sentances?
>>
>> That would be cheating DC
>I meant as a measure of how large the data set of words we'd be working with.
>For example, no more than 400 words, etc.
>-- David Cuny
Only so you'd know how big a hash table to setup, which wouldnt be fair
to all algorythms.
Euman
22. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
Robert wrote:
>> 0. Will all words appear in Junko's dictionary?
>
> Not necessarily, but you can count on the vast majority
> of them being there, say 90% or more.
OK, that certainly will impact the algorithm I choose!
Thanks.
-- David Cuny
23. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 01, 2002
I would just guess the faster algorythm being something that much like
a syntax highlighter in an editor would change every letter in a select
number of words until all those words match dictionaries then proceed
to the next small chunk of words replacing the already captured tokens
until these words matched then the next set of words until EOF or EOS
I think this is how I would write it.
Personally
Euman
euman at bellsouth.net
24. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
On 1 Mar 2002, at 20:48, Robert Craig wrote:
>
> David Cuny writes:
>
> > 0. Will all words appear in Junko's dictionary?
>
> Not necessarily, but you can count on the vast majority
> of them being there, say 90% or more.
>
> > 1. Does case matter? That is, the encrypted
> > string "This is encrypted" and
> > "THIS IS ENCRYPTED" are essentially the same thing.
>
> You'll know the case from the case of letters in the input.
> Your output should have the same case.
> Maybe I don't understand what you mean.
But words.txt is all caps. Will you be doing that annoying LeTtEr CaSe
sWiTcHiNg?
Will 'T' = 't' , because the webpage on the contest gave only this as an example
of
the "decode using this key" :
For example, if the standard input file is:
PQRSTUVZABCDEFGHWXYIJKLMNO
No absolute definition as to what 't' is.
> > 2. Can anything that isn't a character (other than apostrophes)
> > be treated as whitespace? For example:
> >
> > "This-is encrypted!\n\n"
> >
> >is basically:
> >
> > { "THIS", "IS", "ENCRYPTED" }
>
> Junko's dictionary does contain some hyphenated words.
> A hyphen could be considered part of a word,
> but in many cases it could be considered a separator
> between two words. Maybe I'll defer for now the decision about
> whether to include hyphenated words in the input.
Well, that will certainly make it more difficult to verify words.
Kat
25. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
Kat writes:
> But words.txt is all caps.
You'll have to convert a word to upper case
before looking it up in Junko's dictionary.
You can use upper() in wildcard.e, or write your own.
> Will you be doing that annoying LeTtEr CaSe sWiTcHiNg?
> Will 'T' = 't' , because the webpage on the contest gave
> only this as an example of the "decode using this key" :
>
> For example, if the standard input file is:
>
> PQRSTUVZABCDEFGHWXYIJKLMNO
>
> No absolute definition as to what 't' is.
If the cipher says that A's are replaced by P's,
then it also says that a's will be replaced by p's.
Only 26 mappings of one letter to another need to be specified,
not 52, and punctuation, whitespace, etc. remains the same.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
26. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
Andy Serpa wrote:
> I just thought of something else: why judge the words at all? Just
> judge the solution to the cipher with a score of 1 to 26 (assuming all
> 26 letters appeared in the block, which they probably wouldn't for a
> small one)....
Good point. Consider the case where two programs came up with two solutions.
Program A correctly guesses the position of the 'e', so more of the text is
solved. Program B correctly guesses the position of the 'c' and 'k', so more
letters are solved. Which scores higher?
And I agree that it's not fair to give points for figuring out, for example,
that "X" = "Q" if the letter Q never appears in the cipher in the first place.
-- David Cuny
27. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
Euman wrote:
> I would just guess the faster algorythm being something that much like
> a syntax highlighter in an editor would change every letter in a select
> number of words until all those words match dictionaries then proceed
> to the next small chunk of words replacing the already captured tokens
> until these words matched then the next set of words until EOF or EOS
This sort of thing of brute force generate and test approach is trivial in
Prolog.
The problem is when it encounters a word it doesn't have in the dictionary.
That was why I asked about it earlier. It has to backtrack and run through
every possible combination before it figures out that it can't solve the
word. At that point, you can flag the word as unknown and continue. But
(depending on how efficient your pruning is) you've ended up wasting a lot of
time backtracking.
-- David Cuny
28. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
Euman wrote:
>>>>3. How many words are in the input sentances?
>>>
>>> That would be cheating DC
>>
>>I meant as a measure of how large the data set of words we'd be working
>> with. For example, no more than 400 words, etc.
>
> Only so you'd know how big a hash table to setup, which wouldnt be fair
> to all algorythms.
Urm... no. Consider your generate and test solution. It might work just fine
on small blocks of words (40 or less), but completely bog down with any set
larger than that because of a combinatorial explosion.
So some idea of the size of the benchmark is important in setting up test
cases and ensuring that it has a chance to run in the allotted time.
As far as setting up a hash table, I'm assuming that you'd want to set up a
hash table for the dictionary, not the sentance. And you'd know the size of
the dictionary ahead of time, since you'd be supplying it.
-- David Cuny
29. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Mar 02, 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cuny" <dcuny at LANSET.COM>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Euman wrote:
>> I would just guess the faster algorythm being something that much like
>> a syntax highlighter in an editor would change every letter in a select
>> number of words until all those words match dictionaries then proceed
>> to the next small chunk of words replacing the already captured tokens
>> until these words matched then the next set of words until EOF or EOS
>This sort of thing of brute force generate and test approach is trivial in
>Prolog.
>The problem is when it encounters a word it doesn't have in the dictionary.
>That was why I asked about it earlier. It has to backtrack and run through
>every possible combination before it figures out that it can't solve the
>word. At that point, you can flag the word as unknown and continue. But
>(depending on how efficient your pruning is) you've ended up wasting a lot of
>time backtracking.
>-- David Cuny
Davis the TOKEN sequence only needs to reach a set limit of 27 once
this length has been reached youve figured out the algorythm that made the
cipher wich would be more sufficient on large text and no less
sufficient on small text.
Once a word is found in the dictionary each letter found will then reside
as a token which can be applied to the next set of words for consideration.
I cant wait to see how everyone is going to do this...
Euman
30. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
Andy Serpa wrote:
> I just thought of something else: why judge the words at all? Just
> judge the solution to the cipher with a score of 1 to 26
I was originally planning to score it that way,
but I think it's easier for me, or anyone else,
to count up the number of correct (or incorrect)
words in the output, rather than making a chart of which letter
has been mapped correctly or incorrectly to which other letter.
I figured there would be a wide range in performance,
so it wouldn't matter much which way I scored things.
I guess if there's a lot of discussion of algorithms, and
if people try to copy existing algorithms in other languages,
the bar might be raised pretty high, with less of a difference
between the top competitors.
For now, just assume good/bad word-count decides it.
If there's a compelling reason to change, I will, before
looking at anyone's program.
Also, lets assume that the input might have a small number
of words that contain hyphens or apostrophes. The program
will be more usable if we allow that. As I said, if that's going
to cause problems for your algorithm, you can always ignore
those words, or look at them last.
Ray Smith writes:
> I can see alot of discussion re: optimisation and algoritms after the
> contest is over.
It's ok to discuss algorithms at a high level now,
(if you don't mind giving away your secrets)
but please don't post actual Euphoria code that solves
parts of the 3 problems.
> * Obviously the anonymous donor wants to stay "anonymous" ... why?
> I can't think of any reason why the donor doesn't want to be known.
> (If it was me I'd want everyone to know I donated it!!!!)
It's the CIA. They have some secret terrorist transmissions
that they need to decode, and they don't know how to do it.
> Is the time to load the database part of the calculated time to
> decipher the sentence? If it is can we re-organise the
> database in a particular order to help the load time.
> ie. if we create some new hash scheme can we re-order the table to
> make the load time faster and therefore reduce total decipher time.
For problem #3, you can change the input word list if you want.
For #2 you must use Junko's list as is.
I spent some time looking for a better word list, but I found
that a lot of lists are either:
huge (275,000 words, I've never heard of most of the words)
small (20,000 words, no plurals)
proprietary (crippled - no words over 8 characters)
I'm going to measure the total execution time, loading + calculating,
either with my stop watch, or with an external program that runs
your program via system(), or by inserting statements in your program.
> Just to get my brain working I did the "easy" contest.
> (60 lines of code executing in 0.05 seconds! - ok I haven't done any
> optimisations :( )
> How do we calculate total time of execution???
>
> Is this correct?
> ----------
> atom t
> t = time()
>
> ...
> do all processing
>...
>
> printf(1, "Total Time=%f\n", time() - t)
That's fine.
> Will you add this to everyone's code or should we do this?
I'll do it, if necessary. Obviously I may need to pump
a few megabytes through your program #1 to get
a meaningful measurement.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
31. Re: $100.00 Programming Contest
I'm thinking of entering the Beginner's contest, and was wondering if using
the machine code library would be allowed or not. Thanks
Jeremy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Craig" <rds at RapidEuphoria.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: $100.00 Programming Contest
>
> At the request of an anonymous donor,
> we are going to have an official Programming Contest,
> with $100 of MicroEconomy money for prizes.
>
> I just posted the contest rules at:
>
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com/contest.htm
>
> I expect there will be some questions and
> some need of clarification. Let me know.
>
> In consultation with the donor, we decided
> to have 3 separate contests, so that beginners
> and intermediate programmers would have more of a chance
> to win something. The assumption is that the Gurus,
> for reasons of ego and greed, will all try to win the
> prestigious $50 "hard" contest.
>
> The donor also wanted a contest that would not
> exclude any platform (especially Linux), so the
> problems to be solved do not require any special features,
> GUI's etc. of any one platform.
>
> Have fun. The contest ends March 31.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
>
>
>
>
