1. z-buffer routines & my page
Hi,
If you are, like me, a Tapu's fan bored waiting for him to unveil
(de-shroud) his much touted 1 frame per second (233 MHz machine) 3-d
engine, you might like to wander over to my pages at
homepages.paradise.net.nz/~jbabor/euphoria.html
and fetch my z.zip. You will find it in the graphics section. It
contains a small set of z-buffer routines and a couple of simple demos
that I sketched in between tennis matches over the last few nights:
mapping of flat colored polygons (did I hear someone yawning loudly?),
a kind of Gouraud shading as well as full any-polygon-to-any-polygon
texture mapping. I am especially proud of the very last one, a texture
mapper with a twist: you can nominate one of the colors as
*transparent*, which virtually allows creation of arbitrary complex
polygons, even with funny 'curved' edges, or with holes, etc. All in
all
nothing much, but I think it does illustrate what can be done in good
pure high level language on today's machines.
But, please, treat it with caution, it is a new born baby, very
fragile,
bound to misbehave - very much a work-in-progress!
Enjoy. jiri
2. Re: z-buffer routines & my page
Wow!! Very impressive. I got about 15 fps on the house, and ~50 on the
sphere. There were a couple random crashes though, I'll try to reproduce
them for you.
I'm still impressed how *fast* it is, and how little code (relatively).
Regards,
Greg Phillips
jiri babor wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If you are, like me, a Tapu's fan bored waiting for him to unveil
> (de-shroud) his much touted 1 frame per second (233 MHz machine) 3-d
> engine, you might like to wander over to my pages at
>
> homepages.paradise.net.nz/~jbabor/euphoria.html
>
> and fetch my z.zip. You will find it in the graphics section. It
> contains a small set of z-buffer routines and a couple of simple demos
> that I sketched in between tennis matches over the last few nights:
> mapping of flat colored polygons (did I hear someone yawning loudly?),
> a kind of Gouraud shading as well as full any-polygon-to-any-polygon
> texture mapping. I am especially proud of the very last one, a texture
> mapper with a twist: you can nominate one of the colors as
> *transparent*, which virtually allows creation of arbitrary complex
> polygons, even with funny 'curved' edges, or with holes, etc. All in
> all
> nothing much, but I think it does illustrate what can be done in good
> pure high level language on today's machines.
>
> But, please, treat it with caution, it is a new born baby, very
> fragile,
> bound to misbehave - very much a work-in-progress!
>
> Enjoy. jiri
3. Re: z-buffer routines & my page
On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Greg Phillips wrote:
> Wow!! Very impressive. I got about 15 fps on the house, and ~50 on the
> sphere. There were a couple random crashes though, I'll try to reproduce
> them for you.
What kind of computer are you running them on ?
I get 16fps on the sphere running a PII 300mhz.
Irv
4. Re: z-buffer routines & my page
- Posted by Talvitie <smtoa at SAUNALAHTI.FI>
Oct 24, 1999
-
Last edited Oct 25, 1999
Jiri wrote:
>If you are, like me, a Tapu's fan bored waiting for him to unveil
>(de-shroud) his much touted 1 frame per second (233 MHz machine) 3-d
>engine, you might like to wander over to my pages at
>
> homepages.paradise.net.nz/~jbabor/euphoria.html
>
>and fetch my z.zip....
I checked z and must say you've done a great job :)=20
You also have a very large amount of donwloads on your page... I'm =
impressed!
And now some words for my "fan club":
Quess I've pissed off or atleast made a bit angry many of you by not =
unveiling my source. Sorry, wasn't sure what do with it, but...
I've used a lot of great stuff made by all you on the list and others. =
Quess I never even had started to develop my engine any further from =
those QB days if haven't found this great new language and U4 community. =
So thanks for you all. And what comes to me...haven't give you anything =
but some lousy answers to some questions. What a #&@% I've been!
I played some new 3D games few days ago and I realized that my engine =
has a REALLY long journey to catch 'em. And that propably never even =
happens. My engine isn't really so great I thought. snif ;( ...but what =
the heck! I wondered this and think that getting some positive =
feedback(and critic too) from all you is all I need to continue my =
work.
So, thanks for all you doing a great job and for keeping the source =
free. And Monty in Oregon, you're right. I've been a bit childish with =
my engine. But that's going to change!
In fact, I decided to share my source a few days ago, but three reasons =
I haven't done that yet :
1. Haven't been around my monitor(except while checking mails and =
playing a bit) for somewhat a week.
2. Everybody always talked about optimization hints and all that kind of =
things while trying to turn my head. Well, I don't really need that yet. =
I know exactly what I do to my engine for the next few weeks. After it's =
in a certain point then the help would come in need.
3. It doesn't really help (correct if I'm wrong) anyone while it's this =
much under construction. Who want's to use an engine in a game when it =
gives less fps than man has fingers? And does it really help other =
engine developers when even I have sometimes problems to understand what =
I've coded before. Really should add some documentation to the engine to =
make it more readable atleast for myself. When you code two or three =
days per week you really can't remember everything!
Anywayz... I'll add a few things to t3de and try to put some =
documentation on how to use it and then you'll get the source. I'll do =
it as soon as I can and let you know when t3de source is downloadable.
Critic...it's really needed sometimes, you know!
--Talvitie
5. Re: z-buffer routines & my page
Sorry, typo, I meant 30 fps.
My machine was originally a Pentium Celeron 400, but due to The Great
Overclocking Experiment of 1999, it now runs stable at a cool 558mHz.
Greg Phillips
Irv Mullins wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Oct 1999, Greg Phillips wrote:
> > Wow!! Very impressive. I got about 15 fps on the house, and ~50 on the
> > sphere. There were a couple random crashes though, I'll try to reproduce
> > them for you.
>
> What kind of computer are you running them on ?
> I get 16fps on the sphere running a PII 300mhz.
>
> Irv
6. Re: z-buffer routines & my page
Thanks, Greg, for your typically American 'Wow!!'. You also wrote:
> ... There were a couple random crashes though, I'll try to reproduce
> them for you.
I am puzzled, because I ran the examples for several hours on two
different machines without any trouble before posting them. Are you
sure you did not fiddle with the sizes of the objects? That could
lead to 'index out of range' sort of error, because I used quite small
buffers to make the whole thing look much better than it is...
Hi, Monty, it's nice to hear again from one of the Euphoria list
'originals'. I don't really know what you mean when you talk about
'opinionated sarcasm', but you also wrote:
> Anyway, I was wondering if you would provide a hard coded example of
> each of the classes of polygon that your z lib handles.
I'll see what I can do, but don't hold your breath. At the moment I
am very busy with my growing family (another grandchild just around
the corner) and with my tennis, which I want to enjoy as much as I can
while I can. Your text and your pseudo-example indicate that you are
more puzzled by the whole 3-d scene description and its terminology
than by my routines, which I thought were pretty straight forward. But
I'll try to come up with some sort of short tutorial and proper
documentation for the routines. In the meantime, the best you can
probably do is to scour the web for some texture mapping and/or 3-d
modelling papers/tutorials. There is quite a bit on offer, and while
the vast majority is just no good, there are some real gems to be
found in the garbage.
Sorry, Tapu, for being so unsubtle, but this is just one more battle
in my silly crusade to keep Euphoria as free as possible for the
benefit of all... (Sounds so phony, eh?)
You obviously possess tremendous talent, so please do not get
discouraged! Don't be afraid to share your code, warts and all - if
you are lucky, some one will help you improve it, and we can all learn
in the process. Just look at the best of the best and what they are
doing. Take David Cuny and his superbly organized code. He has spent
possibly thousands of hours on it and hundreds more answering our
silly
questions. For free! Or Pete Eberlein, the worst documentation writer
around, but a young man with very agile brain and a knack for
beautiful solutions. And again, all his code is free and open.
But enough rambling, Ralf's disease. Cu around. jiri
7. Re: z-buffer routines & my page
- Posted by Greg Phillips <i.shoot at REDNECKS.COM>
Oct 24, 1999
-
Last edited Oct 25, 1999
jiri babor wrote:
> Thanks, Greg, for your typically American 'Wow!!'. You also wrote:
Actually, I'm Canadian, eh! =)
> > ... There were a couple random crashes though, I'll try to reproduce
> > them for you.
>
> I am puzzled, because I ran the examples for several hours on two
> different machines without any trouble before posting them. Are you
> sure you did not fiddle with the sizes of the objects? That could
> lead to 'index out of range' sort of error, because I used quite small
> buffers to make the whole thing look much better than it is...
>
I haven't had any crashes since then...it could have just be one of those
random Windows issues that no one really understands.
>
> [snip]
Regards,
Greg Phillips
8. Re: z-buffer routines & my page
- Posted by M King <boot_me at GEOCITIES.COM>
Oct 27, 1999
-
Last edited Oct 28, 1999
>Hi, Monty, it's nice to hear again from one of the Euphoria list
>'originals'.
As are you I beleive...we still hear from Rob, "The" Euphoria list original
:)
I don't really know what you mean when you talk about
>'opinionated sarcasm', but you also wrote:
Oh, some of the conversations on the list fit this description, but if
stomachable, sometimes a bit may be gleaned from it...sometimes.
>
>> Anyway, I was wondering if you would provide a hard coded example of
>> each of the classes of polygon that your z lib handles.
>
>I'll see what I can do, but don't hold your breath.
Yes, my main question is... if I want to display a texure mapped polygon, at
location xyz, how do I define the polygon so that your zgpoly() accepts
it...how many points, which part of the description fits what...as you said,
I am not very up on what does what...I think that I understand the basics,
ie...
you have some sort of a transformation going on to take 3d objects and
project them to a plane...the screen.
At the moment I
>am very busy with my growing family (another grandchild just around
>the corner) and with my tennis, which I want to enjoy as much as I can
>while I can.
I sent your recipe page address to my fiance and she said the recipe's
looked interesting, but she had to figure a few things out. (I know that
feeling :)
Your text and your pseudo-example indicate that you are
>more puzzled by the whole 3-d scene description and its terminology
>than by my routines, which I thought were pretty straight forward. But
>I'll try to come up with some sort of short tutorial and proper
>documentation for the routines. In the meantime, the best you can
>probably do is to scour the web for some texture mapping and/or 3-d
>modelling papers/tutorials. There is quite a bit on offer, and while
>the vast majority is just no good, there are some real gems to be
>found in the garbage.
Yes that is the problem...how to get directly to the point, thats why I like
to look at a lot of examples of the same thing...am meaning to download
tapu's vb examples, even though I don't know vb.
>
>
>Sorry, Tapu, for being so unsubtle, but this is just one more battle
>in my silly crusade to keep Euphoria as free as possible for the
>benefit of all... (Sounds so phony, eh?)
>
>You obviously possess tremendous talent, so please do not get
>discouraged! Don't be afraid to share your code, warts and all - if
>you are lucky, some one will help you improve it, and we can all learn
>in the process. Just look at the best of the best and what they are
>doing. Take David Cuny and his superbly organized code. He has spent
>possibly thousands of hours on it and hundreds more answering our
>silly
>questions. For free! Or Pete Eberlein, the worst documentation writer
>around, but a young man with very agile brain and a knack for
>beautiful solutions. And again, all his code is free and open.
Here Here!!!
Tapu, if you read this, I didn't mean to make it sound like you were being
childish...I perhaps went overboard with my attempt to get you to change
your mind, but grew frustrated not being able to play...(Seems childish of
me... 
Both of you keep up the excellent work.
Monty
9. Re: z-buffer routines & my page
Monty wrote:
> I sent your recipe page address to my fiance and she said the
> recipe's looked interesting, but she had to figure a few things
> out.(I know that feeling :)
Sorry, Monty, I should have known. Very soon I will provide imperial
equivalents of all given quantities for the benefit of the severely
retarded civilization on your subcontinent . jiri
