1. How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by jc at cknet.net
Mar 19, 2001
-
Last edited Mar 20, 2001
Hello,
I'm new to euphoria and just wondering how big of a 'movement' Euphoria is?
Is it the next VB? Is it growing, static, best thing since sliced bread, or
sliced bread? Kinda of philosophy questions here.
TIA
Jim Chapman
2. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
> Hello,
> I'm new to euphoria and just wondering how big of a
> 'movement' Euphoria is?
> Is it the next VB? Is it growing, static, best thing
> since sliced bread, or
> sliced bread? Kinda of philosophy questions here.
VB?
Well...
It's about half the size of the QBasic community...
And that's *bad*...
Eu is more of a toy language for hobbiests...
Down here we've got this guy called MTS who's making
sure Eu will break through in the compiler scene...
Hey, w8, that's me!...
Hang on...
In a month or three, expect Eu to break through...
Mike The Spike
3. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by mwfch at MWEB.CO.ZA
Mar 20, 2001
The QB community is about 3 000 000 .
Read ya later !
Ferdinand Greyling(DukeFungus)
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike The Spike <mtsreborn at yahoo.com>
To: EUforum <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: How big is Euphoria clan
> > Hello,
> > I'm new to euphoria and just wondering how big of a
> > 'movement' Euphoria is?
> > Is it the next VB? Is it growing, static, best thing
> > since sliced bread, or
> > sliced bread? Kinda of philosophy questions here.
>
>
> VB?
> Well...
> It's about half the size of the QBasic community...
> And that's *bad*...
>
> Eu is more of a toy language for hobbiests...
> Down here we've got this guy called MTS who's making
> sure Eu will break through in the compiler scene...
> Hey, w8, that's me!...
>
> Hang on...
> In a month or three, expect Eu to break through...
>
> Mike The Spike
>
>
>
4. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by mwfch at MWEB.CO.ZA
Mar 20, 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Bensler <bensler at mailops.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 7:33 PM
Subject: RE: How big is Euphoria clan
>
>
> > VB?
> > Well...
> > It's about half the size of the QBasic community...
> > And that's *bad*...
>
> QBasic has been around for ages, it's an antique..
> EU is still an infant in comparison..
>
>
> >
> > Eu is more of a toy language for hobbiests...
>
> It's certainly not a toy, but definitely needs some refinement..
>
>
> IMO, as far as any interpretter I have seen, EU is definitely the best
> there is..
I`m with you on that one.
>
> I like the fact that it is so compact, but in the opposite, that means a
> lack of a lot of *features*, but most everything can be done with it..
> those features can be incorporated if you choose to code them..
Everything exept Quake 4 , Unreal 3 , Resident Evil 37 <and the list goes on
>
>
> Some languages give you everything that your heart could desire, but
> they also take forever and a day to learn to use, and more often than
> not, that means you never end up using them, also means if and when you
> do use them, it's that much harder to get it right..
I got the basic of C in a day and wrote an exam on Brainbench.com and passed
and got a certificate that enables me to get a job ( I`m 14 , hehe ) .
>
> I have VB, and if I'm not trying to code a GUI app, which I never do,
> then I never use it.. hence it sits on my shelf..
I got VB 5 Professional and I never wrote anyting in it . What can i say ,
i`m not into those kinda langs !
>
> The only real drawback to EU is the lack of userbase, which would
> provide a broader spectrum of libraries that I wouldn't have to code..
I tried to get people to code in Eu , but all reply I got was that they
think i`m a salesman . Hehe , maybe I should become one ..... na , i`ll stay
with coding .
To tell you the truth , the only reson i`m on this list is because of the
great people (like you) , the profesional standard information i get and a
bunch of sentimental crap . Dont think to deep about it , else its gonna get
to ya .
Read ya later !
Ferdinand Greyling (DukeFungus)
>
> Chris
>
>
5. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
>
> >
> >
> > > VB?
> > > Well...
> > > It's about half the size of the QBasic
> community...
> > > And that's *bad*...
> >
> > QBasic has been around for ages, it's an antique..
> > EU is still an infant in comparison..
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Eu is more of a toy language for hobbiests...
> >
> > It's certainly not a toy, but definitely needs
> some refinement..
> >
> >
> > IMO, as far as any interpretter I have seen, EU is
> definitely the best
> > there is..
>
> I`m with you on that one.
Same here.
> >
> > I like the fact that it is so compact, but in the
> opposite, that means a
> > lack of a lot of *features*, but most everything
> can be done with it..
> > those features can be incorporated if you choose
> to code them..
>
> Everything exept Quake 4 , Unreal 3 , Resident Evil
> 37 <and the list goes on
Hahaha, someone finally caught my drift...
It makes it all worth it... ;)
>
> >
> > Some languages give you everything that your heart
> could desire, but
> > they also take forever and a day to learn to use,
> and more often than
> > not, that means you never end up using them, also
> means if and when you
> > do use them, it's that much harder to get it
> right..
>
> I got the basic of C in a day and wrote an exam on
> Brainbench.com and passed
> and got a certificate that enables me to get a job (
> I`m 14 , hehe ) .
Walcome to the club man!
14 when I learned my first coding lang.
6 When I coded my first app (on a C64 in BASICA).
I didn't know what coding was, or what the hell I was
doing, I just thought computers operated that way:
tytpe in a list of commands (ie. basic statements) and
run them.
Never knew I was coding...
People say I am a genius...
I say I'm just a poor street fighter from Belgium that
never got past elementary school...
I'm pretty smart, but don't take orders.
Ya want me to get up every morning and come to
school, listen to your commands, and not get payed?
Yeah right pall, not with this one.
That's why I never got good grades; I was never in
school. I was home coding on my 286 (back in '97!!)
while others were playing Duke Nukem on their
Pentiums, cos I didn't have the money to buy anything
costing more than 100 bucks.
I've being using the same computer at home for years,
a 166.
When I had a job, I had access to powerfull multimedia
computers.
Now, I'm stuck with my old chap.
But hey, that means if I code something and it works
on my computer, and works fast, how will it run on a
P4? At the speed of light?
> >
> > I have VB, and if I'm not trying to code a GUI
> app, which I never do,
> > then I never use it.. hence it sits on my shelf..
>
> I got VB 5 Professional and I never wrote anyting in
> it . What can i say ,
> i`m not into those kinda langs !
Good for you man!
You're like me...
BASICA, QBASIC, maybe for fun once in a while or for
nostalgia purposes, but VB?
Nope...
It's bloatware reproducing itself; ie. your VB apps
will be bloatware aswell.
It's slow, restrictive, ugly, proprietary, non-portale
(at all), etc.
If you say you're a VB coder, I laugh in your face and
write down the url to RapidEuphoria.com on a box of
matches and tell you to talk to me again when you've
become a *real* coder.
For let's face it, Eu's syntax is easy, but that's
about it.
Eu is ultra-highlevel, but also ultra-lowlevel
(poke/peek/call/etc.).
It's even easier to code an app in C than it is in
Euphoria functionality-wise, for C has lots of
libraries you can use.
Eu has some libs aswell, but many are poor...
And C must have millions of libs...
> >
> > The only real drawback to EU is the lack of
> userbase, which would
> > provide a broader spectrum of libraries that I
> wouldn't have to code..
>
> I tried to get people to code in Eu , but all reply
> I got was that they
> think i`m a salesman . Hehe , maybe I should become
> one ..... na , i`ll stay
> with coding .
See, I say Eu is a toy language for hobbiests only for
good reason.
I'm 17 by age but I am also a father, employee and
husband.
I know more than 17 year old "kids" out there.
I know how the world works; and one thing that makes
Eu a toy is the fact that there simply are nojobs out
there for Eu coders.
VB coders? Thousands of jobs in Belgium alone.
C coders? Hundreds of jobs...
Eu coders? What's Eu?
How can Eu solve this?
At first I've said "Make Eu more industrial-strength",
but now I see the advanteges of an Eu To C translator.
Wanna be an employed C coder? But don't know C?
Code in Eu, translate to C, and get a fully working
perfect-app in no-time.
Become famous as your C code is 100% robust and
effective.
But the current E2C translator isn't capable of doing
this...
That's why I'm trying to convince Rob to A. Make it
multiplatform or let others do it. B. Release the
source to ec.lib for the same purpose. C. Make a good
mapping between existing C code and Eu.
And maybe make the code more
readable/smaller/standalone.
Were you hired as a Software Engineer?
A Software Archtect? In C?
Code your program lay-out in Euphoria, translate to C,
and let the people that work beneath you fill in the
gaps.
> To tell you the truth , the only reson i`m on this
> list is because of the
> great people (like you) , the profesional standard
> information i get and a
> bunch of sentimental crap . Dont think to deep about
> it , else its gonna get
> to ya .
Hmm...
We're all flattered ;)
> Read ya later !
> Ferdinand Greyling (DukeFungus)
There goes what might be the next MTS!
A young coder starting out with the right principles
and with a focus on reality (C coding jobs, etc.).
Feel lucky that Eu is more advanced today than when I
started out.
Version 1.5 of Eu wasn't somthing to be proud of, but
today's version, along with the translator, seem to be
usable for large-scale projects, an maybe even making
some money with your apps...
If only Eu had better Game Programming
functionality...
Mike The Spike
6. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by RedDan11 at AOL.COM
Mar 20, 2001
As far as I can see a lot of the EU coders are teenagers. I'm only 14 just
like that other kid on the list. It's great to be young. I have my whole
life ahead of me for programming. I will have to agree with MTS though, EU
needs better game programming capabilities.
-Dan Da Man
7. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by leviathan at uswest.net
Mar 21, 2001
> As far as I can see a lot of the EU coders are teenagers. I'm only 14 just
> like that other kid on the list. It's great to be young. I have my whole
> life ahead of me for programming. I will have to agree with MTS though, EU
> needs better game programming capabilities.
*sigh* I feel old now. I'm almost 16, and look how many 14-year
olds, starting out like I did, playing with basics of Eu, soon, they'll
become l33t3r coders than even I am now (they're going straight for
3D, I always knew that Euphoria is incapable of that right now, so I
headed for professional-looking useful utilities that everyone will
need :))
But hey, I bet MTS at 17 years doesn't feel better either :)
*sigh* Might as well retire me, i'm too old now! (Uhuhuhuhuh, yeah,
funny joke, uh-huhuhuh)
--"LEVIATHAN"
8. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
Good grief, Leviathan. You do know how to make a man feel older than the
hills, don't you? Gee, thanks, buddy.
LOL 
Oh, for the good old days of the TRS-80, the Apple //c, and 6502 ASM.
Happy Hunting,
Travis Beaty (Age 31)
Claude, Texas.
----- Original Message -----
From: <leviathan at uswest.net>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: How big is Euphoria clan
>
>
>
> > As far as I can see a lot of the EU coders are teenagers. I'm only 14
just
> > like that other kid on the list. It's great to be young. I have my
whole
> > life ahead of me for programming. I will have to agree with MTS though,
EU
> > needs better game programming capabilities.
>
> *sigh* I feel old now. I'm almost 16, and look how many 14-year
> olds, starting out like I did, playing with basics of Eu, soon, they'll
> become l33t3r coders than even I am now (they're going straight for
> 3D, I always knew that Euphoria is incapable of that right now, so I
> headed for professional-looking useful utilities that everyone will
> need :))
>
> But hey, I bet MTS at 17 years doesn't feel better either :)
>
> *sigh* Might as well retire me, i'm too old now! (Uhuhuhuhuh, yeah,
> funny joke, uh-huhuhuh)
>
> --"LEVIATHAN"
>
>
>
>
>
>
9. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by leviathan at uswest.net
Mar 21, 2001
> Good grief, Leviathan. You do know how to make a man feel older than the
> hills, don't you? Gee, thanks, buddy.
I sound older myself considering how much I talk about
remembering those CoCo 3's with their 6800 and 68000 series
processors (Motorola, whee!) and the ELF (a machine that ran
solely on ASM... my dads' friend had one before I decided to probe
it and blew a diode (long time ago)... or was it my dads, I wouldn't
know)... that thing was so tedious to program without having a video
source of some sort! :) And then all I had for keyboard input on the
thing was a couple of arrow keys and a-f, 0-9. Pure ASM.
*sigh* Hey, stuff was easy then. And now you got all these
newfangled GUIs and hard drives and RAM.... just give me a
freaking 68HC00-modified CoCo3 w/ 512k RAM, OS/9 L2 and a
360k 5.25, I'll make due! :)
>
> LOL
>
> Oh, for the good old days of the TRS-80, the Apple //c, and 6502 ASM.
I scared my teachers when I started hacking their Apple c's.... back
when I was only a tiny tot of age... uhh... 5 or 6 years old :)
And pfft to your TRS-80! Whee! :) (Tho hey, I can't put down their
rep of taking down many systems with 4k of RAM :) Now we need
HOW MUCH RAM to take down a Microsoft network? Too much,
IMO :))
> Travis Beaty (Age 31)
Now you can only imagine how my dad feels at 40 :)
--"LEVIATHAN"
10. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
> Oh, for the good old days of the TRS-80, the Apple //c, and 6502=20
> ASM.
>
Agreed!
Michael J. Sabal (28)
11. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, leviathan at uswest.net wrote:
>...and the ELF (a machine that ran
> solely on ASM... my dads' friend had one before I decided to probe
> it and blew a diode (long time ago)... or was it my dads, I wouldn't
> know)... that thing was so tedious to program without having a video
> source of some sort! :) And then all I had for keyboard input on the
> thing was a couple of arrow keys and a-f, 0-9. Pure ASM.
But, hey, you could draw a schematic for the whole computer
on the back of a napkin.
I've still got one somewhere around here, that I expanded to
an incredible 32k memory, and added a tiny 4" crt and a homemade
video card using a 6845. With _tiny basic_ (gasp!)
I think it could do 1000 instructions per second.
Or maybe that was per minute....
--
Regards,
Irv
12. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by mwfch at MWEB.CO.ZA
Mar 22, 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <leviathan at uswest.net>
To: EUforum <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 5:22 AM
Subject: Re: How big is Euphoria clan
>
>
>
> > As far as I can see a lot of the EU coders are teenagers. I'm only 14
just
> > like that other kid on the list. It's great to be young. I have my
whole
> > life ahead of me for programming. I will have to agree with MTS though,
EU
> > needs better game programming capabilities.
>
> *sigh* I feel old now. I'm almost 16, and look how many 14-year
> olds, starting out like I did, playing with basics of Eu, soon, they'll
> become l33t3r coders than even I am now (they're going straight for
> 3D, I always knew that Euphoria is incapable of that right now, so I
> headed for professional-looking useful utilities that everyone will
> need :))
I started at the age of 12 , 2 years back . I aint no beginer !
Read ya later !
Ferdinand Greyling(Duke Fungus)
>
> But hey, I bet MTS at 17 years doesn't feel better either :)
>
> *sigh* Might as well retire me, i'm too old now! (Uhuhuhuhuh, yeah,
> funny joke, uh-huhuhuh)
>
> --"LEVIATHAN"
>
>
>
>
>
13. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by mwfch at MWEB.CO.ZA
Mar 22, 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <leviathan at uswest.net>
To: EUforum <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 5:22 AM
Subject: Re: How big is Euphoria clan
>
>
>
> > As far as I can see a lot of the EU coders are teenagers. I'm only 14
just
> > like that other kid on the list. It's great to be young. I have my
whole
> > life ahead of me for programming. I will have to agree with MTS though,
EU
> > needs better game programming capabilities.
>
> *sigh* I feel old now. I'm almost 16, and look how many 14-year
> olds, starting out like I did, playing with basics of Eu, soon, they'll
> become l33t3r coders than even I am now (they're going straight for
> 3D, I always knew that Euphoria is incapable of that right now, so I
> headed for professional-looking useful utilities that everyone will
> need :))
I started at the age of 12 , 2 years back . I aint no beginer !
Read ya later !
Ferdinand Greyling(Duke Fungus)
>
> But hey, I bet MTS at 17 years doesn't feel better either :)
>
> *sigh* Might as well retire me, i'm too old now! (Uhuhuhuhuh, yeah,
> funny joke, uh-huhuhuh)
>
> --"LEVIATHAN"
>
>
>
>
>
14. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
At 05:58 AM 3/21/01 -0800, you wrote:
>> Oh, for the good old days of the TRS-80, the Apple //c, and 6502
>> ASM.
>>
>Agreed!
Agreed a second time!!
I learnt Z80 machine code on a Sinclair ZX81 and 6502 machine code on a BBC
Model B. BASIC on both. Now who (probably just in the UK but you never
know) remembers the Jupiter Ace? It was an odd one at the time because
instead of running a dialect of BASIC like most micro computers it's native
high level language was FORTH. Now that takes me back ... to about 1982 or
thereabouts :-]
Gamers preferred the Atari 400, Atari 800, Vic 20 (fore runner to the
Commodore 64) and even the Dragon 32. All in the days before hard disks or
even floppy drives were "affordable" items. You "saved" your programs onto
audio tape using a standard tape recorder. That was an art in itself!!!
Getting the volume level and tone (bass/treble) just right was a never
ending process of trail and error.
I don't know these ``kids'' just don't know there born what with all the
RAM, disk drives, graphics modes, sound cards, internet etc. :-] (big
smiles)
In my day you had to wait 5 minutes for BASIC to boot of the audio tape
before you could write your first line of code! Still it meant you could
have great "fun" hacking the tape to swap the BASIC commands "RUN" and
"NEW" around (evil grin).
On a more serious note if anyone is wondering what to do with their old
computer kit (and we are talking 15 to 20 years plus) then I'd recommend
hanging on to it. Mint condition kit will, I think, be worth a bit of cash
in the "soon to happen" computer antique marketplace. Dont forget the
software of the time that goes with it!
Regards,
Andy Cranston.
15. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by otter at FULL-MOON.COM
Mar 21, 2001
--=====================_241567946==_.ALT
<blithering begins>
ok - I'll make a total fool of myself with my first computer - in high school i
had access to a PDP 8 at the college. it ran solely on tape drive and paper tape.
programs could not exceed 8k. the system handled 24 concurrent users. what is
truly scary is this was only 25 years ago. NOT that long ago. I'm only 40 -
hardly dead. At this rate of growth i can't even imagine what we will have in
another 25 years.
<otterdad rolls his wheel chair off the pulpit>
--=====================_241567946==_.ALT
<html>
ok - I'll make a total fool of myself with my first computer - in high
school i had access to a PDP 8 at the college. it ran solely on tape
drive and paper tape. programs could not exceed 8k. the system handled 24
concurrent users. what is truly scary is this was only 25 years ago. NOT
that long ago. I'm only 40 - hardly dead. At this rate of growth i can't
even imagine what we will have in another 25 years.<br>
<br>
<otterdad rolls his wheel chair off the pulpit><br>
</font>
--=====================_241567946==_.ALT--
16. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by Travis Beaty <travisbeaty at arn.net>
Mar 21, 2001
-
Last edited Mar 22, 2001
> Who's idea was this anyway?????? I got a computer
> with no brains because I didn't ASK for an os!!!!!!!! Good greaf.
> Hay where'd I leave my geritol?
> Alvin (35)
>
When I got my first Apple //c, I got it for free. A guy gave it to me, and
said it was broke, because when he turned it on, all it did was click. He
didn't know the "brains" were on a 5 1/4" disk. I wonder how many "broke"
Apples have been tossed recently for just that reason.
And, BTW, also it came with AppleBasic, I used UCSD Pascal, which, if I
recall correctly, tended to be a royal pain in the backside. To compile,
every ten seconds or so you'd have to take the floppy out and flip it over.
Later on, when they came out with the 3 1/2" external drive, I turned it
into a kind of pseudo-hard drive, but no matter what, you still had to boot
it from that doggone 5 1/4".
Happy Hunting,
Travis Beaty
Claude, Texas.
17. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
- Posted by leviathan at uswest.net
Mar 21, 2001
-
Last edited Mar 22, 2001
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, leviathan at uswest.net wrote:
> >...and the ELF (a machine that ran
> > solely on ASM... my dads' friend had one before I decided to probe
> > it and blew a diode (long time ago)... or was it my dads, I wouldn't
> > know)... that thing was so tedious to program without having a video
> > source of some sort! :) And then all I had for keyboard input on the
> > thing was a couple of arrow keys and a-f, 0-9. Pure ASM.
>
> But, hey, you could draw a schematic for the whole computer
> on the back of a napkin.
Honestly? It looked a helluvalot more complex than a back of a
napkin. Maybe thats one huge napkin?
> I've still got one somewhere around here, that I expanded to
> an incredible 32k memory, and added a tiny 4" crt and a homemade
> video card using a 6845. With _tiny basic_ (gasp!)
32k? Whoa! And a video card? Not too much more suprising (I
remember my dad making a sound-ability hack for my bro's CoCo 2
with a GIMME chip (Thats for graphics, but I remember him refering
to it constantly by that)), but still, wowee! Irv, I wanna see this! :)
> I think it could do 1000 instructions per second.
> Or maybe that was per minute....
The ELF was probably as fast as my dads' 2Mhz 6809 :) But I don't
know this, I was never able to program it...
Hey, does anyone know the old Rainbow magazines for the CoCo
3's? I remember at a very very young age (Around 3-5 years old)
typing in those programs, and my poor dad kept telling me, "No,
Bonn, you got it completely right, its not your fault this program isn't
working"... he tracked it down, to programmers' error. And these
things were released constantly, and I typed in a handful of those,
and my dad had to fix them :)
So, Lev was always a programmer. Not quite the debugger til
recently, but hes always been a programmer.
Next step? Throw my butt into being an IT/IS drone. *sigh*
--"LEVIATHAN"
18. Re: How big is Euphoria clan
On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, leviathan at uswest.net wrote:
> > >...and the ELF (a machine that ran
> > > solely on ASM...
> >
> > But, hey, you could draw a schematic for the whole computer
> > on the back of a napkin.
>
> Honestly? It looked a helluvalot more complex than a back of a
> napkin. Maybe thats one huge napkin?
Not really. It was printed in Electronic Design around 1976. The schematic
takes up the top third of the page (about 3 1/2 x 7") - anybody want a copy :)
> The ELF was probably as fast as my dads' 2Mhz 6809 :) But I don't
> know this, I was never able to program it...
Well, the clock ran at 1 mhz, but each instruction required at least two cycles
(fetch, and exec). For anything practical, like addressing more than
256 bytes of memory, more cycles were required, since the data bus
was only 8 bits wide. The practical result was a rate of maybe 125,000
per second. The 6809 would run rings around it.
However, the 1802 processor used in the ELF is radiation hardened,
so there are a couple, still working, AFAIK, in the Voyager spacecraft,
about a zillion miles from earth by now.
--
Regards,
Irv
