1. [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by _tom (admin) Jan 29, 2021
• 1273 views

1. How many data-types do we want to emphasize?
2. What is the best graphic to illustrate?

one

object does everything

kind of like those languages that do not declare the data-type of a variable

(Fancy graphics can come later.)

┌ object ┐ 
└────────┘ 

two

I like the concept of two distinct data-types

atom|integer|(number) == one number

sequence|(string) == a list of values

Ultimately, a lot of design choices in programming come down to choosing between two fundamental choices.

┌───── object───────┐ 
| number | sequence | 
└───────────────────┘ 
 
    object 
---------------- 
|              | 
number         sequence 
 
 
        object 
         /\ 
        /  \ 
  number    sequence 

three

Classic object|atom|sequence

just to realize that the object data-type comes in handy

five

object|number|integer|sequence|string

Phix has five.

┌───── object───────┐ 
│ number │ sequence │ 
│   │    │   │      │ 
│ integer│ string   │ 
└───────────────────┘ 
 
    object 
---------------- 
|              | 
number         sequence 
     |                | 
     integer          string 
 
        object 
         /\ 
        /  \ 
  number    sequence 
       |           | 
     integer      string 
 

Go has many

• 4 categories
• 8 kinds of integer
• 4 kinds of float
• 5 misc numeric types
• 9 derived types

be well
_tom

3. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by euphoric (admin) Jan 29, 2021
• 1221 views

┌───── object───────┐ 
│ number │ sequence │ 
│   │    │   │      │ 
│ integer│ string   │ 
└───────────────────┘ 
 
    object 
---------------- 
|              | 
number         sequence 
     |                | 
     integer          string 
 
        object 
         /\ 
        /  \ 
  number    sequence 
       |           | 
     integer      string 
 

This is a good question. At first, I'm like, the classical three. Start with the atom. Tell them you can group atoms in sequences. And objects are an umbrella term for any and all types.

However, I like the option for five because Phix actually has functionality that deals with the string type.

I think the 5 types is the best option.

5. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by irv Jan 29, 2021
• 1196 views

Yes - but user-defined types can fall under / be an offshoot of any of the 5, so it's hard to diagram them.

7. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by _tom (admin) Jan 30, 2021
• 1196 views

The giveaway is the warning at the top of the page "19 minutes to read".

_tom

9. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by irv Jan 30, 2021
• 1213 views

Need to add "A lifetime to understand"

11. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by petelomax Jan 30, 2021
• 1171 views

To be fair, you either get 'em all exactly spot on correct... or your program either don't compile or don't work...

or...

To be fair, they do make code nicer to read, just very very very difficult to properly understand translate to assembly

13. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by irv Jan 30, 2021
• 1152 views

Thanks Kat:

As you point out, it also goes beyond just enforcing a type. I find this sort of thing helpful:

-------------------------------  
global type db_err(object x) -- trap eds errors in db procedures;  
-------------------------------  
if x != DB_OK then -- show popup message as well as in the terminal (if used): 
    display("Database Error: [] [] []",{x,decode_err(x),get("input_entry.text")})  
    Error("MainWin",format("Database error code []",x),  
        format("DB: []",{get("input_entry.text")}), -- db name user entered;  
        format("[]",{decode_err(x)}),GTK_BUTTONS_OK) -- from db error table; 
    return 1  
end if  
return x = DB_OK  
end type  
 
db_err x = db_open("bad.edb") -- open, or issue warning, no crash. 
 

Nearly identical routines can create tbl_err and rec_err types, to handle calls such as db_create_table, db_select_table, db_insert, etc.

15. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by irv Jan 31, 2021
• 1096 views

 
            ┌────────┐ 
          ┌─┤ object ├─┐        Five built-in Types 
          │ └────────┘ │ 
          │            │ 
        number     sequence 
          │            │ 
        integer      string 
 
    └────────────┬───────────┘   
                 │ 
    Any of these types can be further 
    restricted / limited by declaring 
    a user-defined type.  
 

17. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by katsmeow Jan 31, 2021
• 1110 views

Ok, sorry i mentioned it, i withdraw my opinion.

Kat

19. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by katsmeow Jan 31, 2021
• 1090 views

Pete, can we get some meta-data about your deleted posts, to have some context?

Kat

21. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by _tom (admin) Feb 01, 2021
• 1061 views

Messing with names is always a problem:

• renaming "atom" to "number" makes beginner tutorials easier to understand (you have to explain what "atom" is)

• probably you could rename "object" to "value"
  • "object" conflicts with how OOP people use the word (this can not get fixed)
  • "thing" "entity" sound like OOP terms

• "number" is descriptive, "the" is not

• "set" suggests a collection of unique items mathematically, no order
  • "sequence" means "an ordered collection"; that's what it is
  • "list" (aka Lisp) could have worked instead of "sequence"

• "int", is that short for "interior decorating"?
  • "integer" is more descriptive

• "string" corresponds to UTF8, the internet, and beyond
  • for specific languages, you are stuck defining your own

• "type" is the unsold super feature of Euphoria|Phix

• original Euphoria docs talk about "working with values...simplification"
• OOP people think they own the word "object" and get confused
• easier to document and explain

be well
_tom

23. Re: [docs and wiki] How many data-types do we emphasize?

• Posted by _tom (admin) Feb 01, 2021
• 1064 views

Sorry Igor, looks like a case of "butterfly effect", a small idea that looks good at first can really mess up traditional Euphoria.

Phix data-types are now looking more like:

 
            ┌────────┐ 
          ┌─┤ object ├─┐        Five built-in Types 
          │ └────────┘ │ 
          │            │ 
        number     sequence 
          │            │ 
        integer      string 
 
      └──────────┬─────────┘ 
                 │              User-Defined Types 
                type            further limit 
                                permitted values 
 
    └────────────┬───────────┘ 
              struct            Reference data-types 
              class 
 

be well
_tom