RE: bloated 2.5
Chris Bensler wrote:
> The setup creates alot of BS for me, just so I can try
> something that I really have no intention of using anyways. Rob
> wants people to use his public domain products. If he is smart,
> he would make it as convenient as possible. That was the whole
> issue in the first place, to get him to make a windows
> installer at ALL! :/ He didn't achieve that. He made it easier
> for neophites to get their feet wet, and made it more difficult
> for veterans to upgrade. I don't know anybody who uses the
> default eu environment. The very presence of EUINC contradicts
> any notion that we should.
Well, I still don't see how it is difficult. But of course your
environment is different from mine, so it must have done
something to really mess you up.
> How does it have anything to do with what I like? I'm being
> practical. Eu-in-EU has no bearing on the PD version of
> Euphoria. Why should it be distributed with Eu?
Why should anything be distributed with the PD version?
The Euphoria-in-Euphoria interpreter is is a good example of a
large, complicated Euphoria program.
> Of course, it's the code that is used for the front end of the
> compiled interpreter. So what? What good is that to me? How is
> it more important than something like win32lib?
It is similar to all the programs in the demo directory. They
aren't strictly necessary, but they are examples of Euphoria
code.
I agree, for a user, win32lib is more important. I'd love it if
Euphoria had a simple cross platform GUI library, that came with
Euphoria, and was supported by the author. But it doesn't.
> That is a HACK solution. That type of attitude infests this
> community, and it's WRONG. Firstly, just because it doesn't
> affect you, doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. Second, the
> mere fact that YOU have to manually do anything, and you don't
> even have the option to stop eu from meddling with your own
> setup, is a reflection of Euphoria's quality.
I agree, it should not mess with your setup, and I agree, you
should not have to change anything. And I agree that it should
be fixed. But I don't agree it is worth SHOUTING about.
> Who said I don't like Euphoria? Or even Robert Craig for that
> matter? If I didn't like Euphoria, I wouldn't be here.
Well, your came across as a mild flame (IMHO), and your posts
that I've been reading for quite a while, are usually the same
way, so I just assumed you didn't like him. I also strongly
disagree with people sometimes, but unless I wanted to alienate
them, I would try to not flame the person I was trying to
convince. Of course I may be breaking my own rule here?
> I fail to see how my post about bloated 2.5 displayed an
> 'overall tone'.
Well, it certainly seemed like a flame to me. Of course, that is
just my opinion, and I've already been wrong once before this
year - there could always be a second time 
> For that matter, who are you to know me?
Of course I don't know you.
> Have you been around since I started using euphoria, go and
> investigate before you start making absurd accusations. I
> resent that implication.
I don't know, when did you start using it? The first version I
downloaded was sometime in 1994. But I did not subscribe to the
mailing list until 1999.
My accusations are based on your past messages.
> Help this mailing list how? I'm supposed to be helping you?
No, I don't need your help. There are plenty of nice, helpful
people on the mailing list. Besides, I already know how to flame
- I use this list to improve my Euphoria programming.
> This euphoria community is petty. It's not worth my effort to
> try and help 'this mailing list'. My perspective is much larger
> than this tiny, lazy community.
So why on earth do you hang around? Why would you waste your
time on a "petty", "tiny, lazy community", when you have
something much larger in mind?
Actually, this is a decent mailing list. Of course I don't
understand why a few folks feel like they have to get all upset
because of some feature(s) not in Euphoria.
> He ignores everyone, I don't feel special. he's been doing that
> since the day I became familiar with Eu and the mailing list.
Really? He seems to participate here pretty often. Just because
he doesn't choose to add the features you request, that doesn't
mean he is ignoring you. It means he has a different opinion. It
is his business to run his business the way he sees fit. But I
fail to see why you get so upset about out it - let me correct
that - why you seem so upset about it.
If I buy a product, and I don't like it, I return it (if I can).
If I think it has potential, I might try to tell someone how they
can improve it. But so what if they don't do anything with my
suggestions. It is their product, and they are free to manage it
as they see fit. Why should I get all worked up about it?
Life's too short for that. Besides, there are other, real
problems (you know, things like your children, spouse, job, etc)
that always can use attention. Euphoria not being perfect for me
isn't a real problem in the grand scheme of things.
> Why do you think I have an 'overall tone' in the first place?
Because you do? Ok, again it is my opinion.
> Euphoria and Robert Craig don't make me angry, they make me
> frustrated. People who make comments like that one, make me
> angry.
It doesn't take much to get you angry. You should get out more
often, perhaps move away from the computer screen for a while?
(I'm just joking - of course. Feel free to get angry about it
though.)
I'd love it if Euphoria had a case statement. I wish the
debugger was better. I wouldn't even mind a goto , or at
least a continue statement. I'd like pass by reference. I'd
like structures.
Actually, there are lots of things I wish Euphoria had. But it
doesn't, and it doesn't look like it is going to get them. But
so what? If it doesn't fit my needs, I'll ask - politely.
Actually, I don't have too. It has all been asked before. And
it doesn't look like it is going to be added.
But it is just a programming language. And a neat programming
language. And with a few more of my pet features, it would be a
really great programming language But it is not something
worth getting all worked up about. C++ and Java still get the
job done, even if I don't have as much fun using them.
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