1. RE: Re:
Hey Ray and Guilermo,
It's funny you mentioned Visual Basic as being bloatware. I once made a
HUGE database program for a client, and it easily broke 25 Megs. I think
12mb of it was for dependencies, such as DAO. Not only was it large, it
was a resource hog. Also, I consider using Delphi, but my first
programming language was C++, and we were taught to hate Pascal. ;)
Delphi and Object Pascal aren't bad though.
I never do any Database programming in C or C++, so I may use Visual
Basic, and Java just isn't fast enough for this project.
I think I'll pick up on Euphoria this evening after lunch and see if it
will be suitable for my needs. I have a week for planning, so if this
goes sour I'll submit to Visual Basic or COBOL (haha, j/k).
Later,
Chris
pampeano at ROCKETMAIL.COM wrote:
>
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> I'm using EDS on a big project (news page not finished yet) and it works
> =
> fine.
> I haven't used the other libraries because I'm not a db expert and I
> don'=
> t want to be one.
>
> Win32lib is still on a development stage, but I think that's not that
> bug=
> gy, maybe you could see some weird stuff, but the win32lib team had
> shown=
> a special interest on fixing the bugs so it's not a big problem.
>
> Give euphoria a try, it's easy and fast to devolp programs on it, and
> spe=
> cial debugging them! (If you have thel full version you have more
> details=
> to fix the problems).
>
> Best Regards,
> Guillermo Bonveh=ED
> AKA: Knixeur, Red Knight, Caballero Rojo
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
>
> From: Ray Smith=20
> To: EUforum=20
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> "Before myTopica, I was buried in an avalanche of email.
> Now, thanks to this free solution, I am on top of my inbox."
> Get rescued at
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> > 1) Is there support for relational databases
>
> The archives contain:
>
> * a MySQL wrapper,
> * a pretty new ODBC wrapper (this is not a full wrapper but I
> think the basics work).
> * Euphoria's own EDS database system.
>
> I don't think any of these have been used on a big project yet????
> not that I can recall hearing about anyway. I haven't used the MySQL
> wrapper but the other two seem to work ok from my small amount
> of playing.
>
>
> > 2) I saw a win32 GUI Library, what controls does it support? More
> > specifically, does it wrap dockables windows, etc?
>
> Win32Lib is an excellent wrapper for the Windows API.
> It has support for the majority of Windows features likes windows,
> button=
> s,
> toolbars, listviews, status bars, textboxes etc etc.
> It is still being heavily developed and as such the odd bug still exists
> =
> and
> the
> doco hasn't caught up yet.
> You will find many many examples of reasonably simple demos using
> Win32Lib.
> >From my personal view I wouldn't start a major development project until
> Win32Lib is a little more stable. Others might disagree?? I'd like to
> he=
> ar
> opinions of anyone who does disagree.
>
> > 3) How does compiled Euphoria code compare to say (realistically) Visua=
> l
> > Basic?
>
> Well, Euphoria in most cases are bound when distributed. This means the
> runtime
> interpreter and the source program is merged together for ease of
> distribution.
> I have never done any benchmarks against any of language ... but then
> aga=
> in
> I have
> never had the need for more speed with Euphoria.
> If you are planning any type of business software with Euphoria will
> have
> power to burn.
>
> There is also a translator available that translates your Euphoria
> progra=
> m
> to C which you can then compile .... which "might" increase the speed
> somewhat.
> The amount of increase has been debated on the list on and off for a few
> months.
>
> > Also, If anyone knows of a compiled GUI program that demonstrates the
> > power of Euphoria could you please post the link?
>
> I don't know of any large applications ... the best bet is to look
> throug=
> h
> the recent user contributions. I don't think you will find what your
> looking
> for though. (Maybe the IDE is a good example???)
>
> > I'm trying to save myself a few months of development by finding a
> > substitute language I could use for this project. I've made database
> > programs in C++ before, and I don't want to go there again.
>
> For windows development I don't think Euphoria is the tool to save
> yourse=
> lf
> time writing software.
> Although the base language is very stable and fast, it by itself won't
> he=
> lp
> you
> do anything in Windows. All the windows add on libraries are written by
> users
> you graciously give there code to the community. This in most cases
> mean=
> s
> bugs are more prominent, documentation is lacking and support is given
> by a few devoted users.
>
> My tool of choice for writing "business" type software for Windows would
> =
> be
> Visual Basic or Delphi.
> Visual Basic (VB) has many knockers (especially around here on the
> Euphor=
> ia
> list)
> and in some regards VB is very inefficent (the word bloatware was
> probabl=
> y
> conceived
> by a VB programmer!) but for a development tool that helps you to
> deliver=
> a
> project
> to a client on time with required functioanlity I don't thin anything
> com=
> es
> close.
>
> If the size of your projects distribution is a major concern I'd suggest
> Delphi.
>
> Ray Smith
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> <TR>
> <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION width=3D"100%">
> <DIV>I'm using EDS on a big project (news page not finished yet) an=
> d it=20
> works fine.</DIV>
> <DIV>I haven't used the other libraries because I'm not a db expert=
> and I=20
> don't want to be one.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Win32lib is still on a development stage, but I think that's n=
> ot that=20
> buggy, maybe you could see some weird stuff, but the win32lib team =
> had=20
> shown a special interest on fixing the bugs so it's not a big=20
> problem.</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>Give euphoria a try, it's easy and fast to devolp programs on =
> it, and=20
> special debugging them! (If you have thel full version you have mor=
> e=20
> details to fix the problems).</DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV>
> <DIV>Best Regards,</DIV>
> <DIV> Guillermo Bonveh=ED</DIV>
> <DIV> AKA: Knixeur, Red Knight, Cabal=
> lero=20
> Rojo</DIV></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><I>-------Original Message-------</I></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV dir=3Dltr id=3Dfromshowfield><U><I>From:</I></U><B> Ray Smith=20
> <SMITHR at IX.NET.AU></B></DIV>
> <DIV dir=3Dltr id=3Dtoshowfield><U><I>To:</I></U><B> EUforum=20
> <EUFORUM at TOPICA.COM></B></DIV>
> <DIV dir=3Dltr id=3Dsubjectshowfield><U><I>Subject:</I></U><B>=20
> Re:</B></DIV><BR> &n=
> bsp; =20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>"Be=
>
> fore=20
> myTopica, I was buried in an avalanche of email.<BR>Now, thanks to =
> this=20
> free solution, I am on top of my inbox."<BR>Get rescued=20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR><BR>Hi=20
> Chris,<BR><BR>> 1) Is there support for relational databases<BR>=
> <BR>The=20
> archives contain:<BR><BR>* a MySQL wrapper,<BR>* a pret=
> ty new=20
> ODBC wrapper (this is not a full wrapper but I<BR>think the basics=20
> work).<BR>* Euphoria's own EDS database system.<BR><BR>I don'=
> t think=20
> any of these have been used on a big project yet????<BR>not that I =
> can=20
> recall hearing about anyway. I haven't used the MySQL<BR>wrap=
> per but=20
> the other two seem to work ok from my small amount<BR>of=20
> playing.<BR><BR><BR>> 2) I saw a win32 GUI Library, what control=
> s does=20
> it support? More<BR>> specifically, does it wrap dockables windo=
> ws,=20
> etc?<BR><BR>Win32Lib is an excellent wrapper for the Windows=20
> API.<BR>It has support for the majority of Windows features likes w=
> indows,=20
> buttons,<BR>toolbars, listviews, status bars, textboxes etc etc.<BR=
> >It is=20
> still being heavily developed and as such the odd bug still exists=20
> and<BR>the<BR>doco hasn't caught up yet.<BR>You will find many many=
> =20
> examples of reasonably simple demos using<BR>Win32Lib.<BR>>From =
> my=20
> personal view I wouldn't start a major development project=20
> until<BR>Win32Lib is a little more stable. Others might disag=
> ree??=20
> I'd like to hear<BR>opinions of anyone who does disagree.<BR><BR>&g=
> t; 3)=20
> How does compiled Euphoria code compare to say (realistically)=20
> Visual<BR>> Basic?<BR><BR>Well, Euphoria in most cases are bound=
> when=20
> distributed. This means the<BR>runtime<BR>interpreter and the=
> source=20
> program is merged together for ease of<BR>distribution.<BR>I have n=
> ever=20
> done any benchmarks against any of language ... but then again<BR>I=
> =20
> have<BR>never had the need for more speed with Euphoria.<BR>If you =
> are=20
> planning any type of business software with Euphoria will have<BR>p=
> ower to=20
> burn.<BR><BR>There is also a translator available that translates y=
> our=20
> Euphoria program<BR>to C which you can then compile .... which "mig=
> ht"=20
> increase the speed<BR>somewhat.<BR>The amount of increase has been =
> debated=20
> on the list on and off for a few<BR>months.<BR><BR>> Also, If an=
> yone=20
> knows of a compiled GUI program that demonstrates the<BR>> power=
> of=20
> Euphoria could you please post the link?<BR><BR>I don't know of any=
> large=20
> applications ... the best bet is to look through<BR>the recent user=
> =20
> contributions. I don't think you will find what=20
> your<BR>looking<BR>for though. (Maybe the IDE is a good=20
> example???)<BR><BR>> I'm trying to save myself a few months of=20
> development by finding a<BR>> substitute language I could use fo=
> r this=20
> project. I've made database<BR>> programs in C++ before, and I d=
> on't=20
> want to go there again.<BR><BR>For windows development I don't thin=
> k=20
> Euphoria is the tool to save yourself<BR>time writing=20
> software.<BR>Although the base language is very stable and fast, it=
> by=20
> itself won't help<BR>you<BR>do anything in Windows. All the w=
> indows=20
> add on libraries are written by<BR>users<BR>you graciously give the=
> re code=20
> to the community. This in most cases means<BR>bugs are more=20
> prominent, documentation is lacking and support is given<BR>by a fe=
> w=20
> devoted users.<BR><BR>My tool of choice for writing "business" type=
> =20
> software for Windows would be<BR>Visual Basic or Delphi.<BR>Visual =
> Basic=20
> (VB) has many knockers (especially around here on the=20
> Euphoria<BR>list)<BR>and in some regards VB is very inefficent (the=
> word=20
> bloatware was probably<BR>conceived<BR>by a VB programmer!) but for=
> a=20
> development tool that helps you to deliver a<BR>project<BR>to a cli=
> ent on=20
> time with required functioanlity I don't thin anything=20
> comes<BR>close.<BR><BR>If the size of your projects distribution is=
> a=20
> major concern I'd suggest<BR>Delphi.<BR><BR>Ray Smith<BR><BR><BR></=
> TD>
> </TR>
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> =09</TABLE>
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> </TABLE><SPAN=20
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>
2. RE: Re:
On Sun, 01 Apr 2001, chris_esen at hotmail.com wrote:
> Hey Ray and Guilermo,
>
> It's funny you mentioned Visual Basic as being bloatware. I once made a
> HUGE database program for a client, and it easily broke 25 Megs. I think
> 12mb of it was for dependencies, such as DAO. Not only was it large, it
> was a resource hog. Also, I consider using Delphi, but my first
> programming language was C++, and we were taught to hate Pascal. ;)
> Delphi and Object Pascal aren't bad though.
Delphi shares some of the same problems as VB, in that there are tons
of DLL's that must go along with even a simple program. Euphoria
programs can be bound into single small files, 200 ~ 400 k, which can
easily be sent to customers via e-mail. Makes updates and changes
very pleasant. Also, I have used Delphi since the first version, and
the later versions tend to be increasingly flaky - to the point that I've
lost source code more than once due to Delphi's misbehavior.
> I never do any Database programming in C or C++, so I may use Visual
> Basic, and Java just isn't fast enough for this project.
> I think I'll pick up on Euphoria this evening after lunch and see if it
> will be suitable for my needs. I have a week for planning, so if this
> goes sour I'll submit to Visual Basic or COBOL (haha, j/k).
If you could give a little more detailed description of the scope of the
project, maybe someone here could confirm that Euporia worked for
them on a similar project, or perhaps that it would be unsuitable.
> > Ray Smith wrote:
> > >From my personal view I wouldn't start a major development project until
> > Win32Lib is a little more stable. Others might disagree??
I have a Euphoria program that has been running 12hrs a day for the past two
years without (cross fingers) losing any data , or requiring any database
rebuild. I used Dave Cuny's original Win32Lib to build the program and have
kept the code updated to run with the latest Win32lib version. So far, the
changes have been minimal, and there have been no problems associated
with bugs in Win32Lib. Of course, I avoid taking advantage of the newly added
functions for a while, until there can be bug reports and fixes posted here.
--
Regards,
Irv
3. RE: Re:
Hey -
I'm working on a database program with 300+ fields for each individual.
I suspect an average of 25 individuals to be entered into the database
at once. It's not a complicated program at all. Basicly I'm going to
sort >all< of this information after I compare it against the other
individual's fields, then display the top N winners for each group (each
group has a table). Now there's more to it, like some individuals may
not have groups while others will and blah blah blah. The rest of the
program sets the MAX and MIN limit for the information being entered
into the fields. It's gonna be chock full of UI.
Later,
Chris
Irv Mullins wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Apr 2001, chris_esen at hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Hey Ray and Guilermo,
> >
> > It's funny you mentioned Visual Basic as being bloatware. I once made a
> > HUGE database program for a client, and it easily broke 25 Megs. I think
> >
> > 12mb of it was for dependencies, such as DAO. Not only was it large, it
> > was a resource hog. Also, I consider using Delphi, but my first
> > programming language was C++, and we were taught to hate Pascal. ;)
> > Delphi and Object Pascal aren't bad though.
>
> Delphi shares some of the same problems as VB, in that there are tons
> of DLL's that must go along with even a simple program. Euphoria
> programs can be bound into single small files, 200 ~ 400 k, which can
> easily be sent to customers via e-mail. Makes updates and changes
> very pleasant. Also, I have used Delphi since the first version, and
> the later versions tend to be increasingly flaky - to the point that
> I've
> lost source code more than once due to Delphi's misbehavior.
>
> > I never do any Database programming in C or C++, so I may use Visual
> > Basic, and Java just isn't fast enough for this project.
>
> > I think I'll pick up on Euphoria this evening after lunch and see if it
> > will be suitable for my needs. I have a week for planning, so if this
> > goes sour I'll submit to Visual Basic or COBOL (haha, j/k).
>
> If you could give a little more detailed description of the scope of the
>
> project, maybe someone here could confirm that Euporia worked for
> them on a similar project, or perhaps that it would be unsuitable.
>
>
> > > Ray Smith wrote:
>
> > > >From my personal view I wouldn't start a major development project until
> > > Win32Lib is a little more stable. Others might disagree??
>
> I have a Euphoria program that has been running 12hrs a day for the past
> two
> years without (cross fingers) losing any data , or requiring any
> database
> rebuild. I used Dave Cuny's original Win32Lib to build the program and
> have
> kept the code updated to run with the latest Win32lib version. So far,
> the
> changes have been minimal, and there have been no problems associated
> with bugs in Win32Lib. Of course, I avoid taking advantage of the newly
> added
> functions for a while, until there can be bug reports and fixes posted
> here.
> --
> Regards,
> Irv
>
>
4. RE: Re:
Yeah, go for it. Euphoria with Win32lib and EDS could handle this task
easily. The performance would be quite acceptable using a PC from the last 3
years. (P2, 8Meg RAM, 200Meg disk, Windows 98)
I have an application using EDS, Win32lib that is much more demanding than
the one you outlined. (60 concurrent client machines handling the UI and a
single server handling the Database) (Sorry, source and object code not
available as it proprietary and I'm operating under a non-disclosure
agreement).
-----------
cheers,
Derek Parnell
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chris_esen at hotmail.com [mailto:chris_esen at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, 2 April 2001 12:42 PM
> To: EUforum
> Subject: RE: Re:
>
>
>
> Hey -
>
> I'm working on a database program with 300+ fields for each
> individual.
> I suspect an average of 25 individuals to be entered into the
> database
> at once. It's not a complicated program at all. Basicly I'm going to
> sort >all< of this information after I compare it against the other
> individual's fields, then display the top N winners for each
> group (each
> group has a table). Now there's more to it, like some individuals may
> not have groups while others will and blah blah blah. The rest of the
> program sets the MAX and MIN limit for the information being entered
> into the fields. It's gonna be chock full of UI.
>
> Later,
> Chris
>
5. RE: Re:
This is certainly not a large database app, but it would be a challenge to
design a usable interface, with 300 fields!
Given the info above, I don't think I would even bother with a database
engine - just a native Euphoria sequence should do fine.
Irv
6. RE: Re:
Yeah, when I said large I was really referring to the UI.
I'll look into Euphoria's I/O functions, but if EuSQL has all the
support I need I wont bother with the I/O functions.
Later,
Chris
Irv Mullins wrote:
> On Sun, 01 Apr 2001, chris_esen at hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Hey -
> >
> > I'm working on a database program with 300+ fields for each individual.
> > I suspect an average of 25 individuals to be entered into the database
> > at once. It's not a complicated program at all. Basicly I'm going to
> > sort >all< of this information after I compare it against the other
> > individual's fields, then display the top N winners for each group (each
> >
> > group has a table). Now there's more to it, like some individuals may
> > not have groups while others will and blah blah blah. The rest of the
> > program sets the MAX and MIN limit for the information being entered
> > into the fields. It's gonna be chock full of UI.
>
> This is certainly not a large database app, but it would be a challenge
> to
> design a usable interface, with 300 fields!
>
> Given the info above, I don't think I would even bother with a database
> engine - just a native Euphoria sequence should do fine.
>
> Judith's new IDE would work for designing the interface.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Irv
>
>
