1. Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hello,
Im still seriously considering upgrading from XP to Linux,
probably Mandrake or SuSE. Is there anything i should know
about the main issues of the transition from using Euphoria
on Windows to useing Eu on Linux?
Al
Good luck with your programming!
2. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
> Im still seriously considering upgrading from XP to Linux,
> probably Mandrake or SuSE. Is there anything i should know
> about the main issues of the transition from using Euphoria
> on Windows to useing Eu on Linux?
Yes:
When Euphoria (or other programs) hang or crash, you don't have to
reboot Linux :)
More seriously, I have recently installed Mandrake 10.0 and Red Hat
Fedora Core 2, and also tried Knoppix 3.4. SuSE has lots of good press,
as well. Mdk, Fedora, and Knoppix can be got from http://cheapbytes.com
for aa few bucks. SuSE costs more, but it comes with actual books.
These may be helpful.
Knoppix is a boot-from-cd system which doesn't require any changes
to your Windows system. Nice to give things a try if you're nervous.
There are tons of programs available, but you have to keep in mind that
it is running from a CD, so programs will load more slowly than they
would from your hard drive.
Fedora works fine, but it has problems setting up dual-booting.
I like Mandrake the best. To install it on your disk, you will
need to defrag using Windows (so everything is packed onto the
first part of the disk, leaving room for Linux. Then MAKE A BACKUP!.
A safe alternative is to install to a separate hard
drive. You'll need a couple of gigs at least.
Then just boot from the Mandrake CD and follow the instructions.
The install is actually easier than XP, and (at least with mine)
it recognized and set up everything, including scanner, printer, etc.
Caution:
Be sure that you have a real modem, not a "win modem". You can tell
by looking at the modem card. A real modem has actual "electronic
components" on it, not just a couple of capacitors and resistors :)
Some win-modems can be used with Linux, but it's easier not to try,
plus you'll get better speed with a real modem.
Other than that, you'll find that developing programs on Linux is very
much more productive than on Windows - there are more tools available,
(most come on the CD's) and you can have MUCH more going on without
slowing you or the computer down. For example, when working with EuGTK,
it is not at all unusual to have all four desktops in use, with several
running Eu programs, text editors editing 10 - 20 different files,
a couple of web browsers displaying docs and surfing the web, while
downloading e-mail. All this works dependably and fast, and I no longer
worry that a crash will cause me to lose my work.
Once you get started, I'll try to answer specific questions if I can.
Regards,
Irv
3. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Dear Al
The lack of a good IDE seems to be the biggest downside to using Linux.
After using the excellent win32lib and enhanced IDE under windows, I
am forced to admit that this is one occasion where the windows environment
is a lot more comfortable for app development with Euphoria (and as a
Linux devotee, I am loathed to have to admit this!)
Maybe we need to do some serious groveling to Irv, to see if he might be
persuaded to produce a GTK-based IDE for Linux (and Win), so that we
could all use the same environment to develop code for both systems :)
BTW, if I might be so bold, I would like to ask all the Euphorians out
there what they use when developing Eu apps under Linux.
What is the most popular editor?
What (if any) GUI libraries do people prefer?
Are there any Linux IDEs currently in the works?
Does anybody have any benchmarks where the same (non-GUI) code is run
under Linux and Win and compared for speed?
Best
Gordon
4. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Gordon Webster wrote:
>
>
> Dear Al
>
> The lack of a good IDE seems to be the biggest downside to using Linux.
>
> After using the excellent win32lib and enhanced IDE under windows, I
> am forced to admit that this is one occasion where the windows environment
> is a lot more comfortable for app development with Euphoria (and as a
> Linux devotee, I am loathed to have to admit this!)
>
> Maybe we need to do some serious groveling to Irv, to see if he might be
> persuaded to produce a GTK-based IDE for Linux (and Win), so that we
> could all use the same environment to develop code for both systems :)
I have thought about that, but there are a some things which argue against
the idea...
Number one is that I am still (with the help of Ron Tarrant)
trying to make sure everything is working on all 3 platforms.
Number two is badly-needed documentation.
Number three: the fact that GTK does a lot of automatic layout means
there is less need for an IDE for positioning controls, etc.
You just drop them into the source code in order, and they are arranged
by GTK. This means the source code can be much more concise.
Number four: there are somtimes situations where code cannot
easily be placed automatically, but must be put into the source in
specific positions. This is hard to explain, I have an example if
anyone is curious.
> BTW, if I might be so bold, I would like to ask all the Euphorians out
> there what they use when developing Eu apps under Linux.
>
> What is the most popular editor?
For me:
Kate (with Eu syntax highlighting and code folding)> What (if any) GUI
libraries do people prefer?
> Are there any Linux IDEs currently in the works?
See above.
> Does anybody have any benchmarks where the same (non-GUI) code is run
> under Linux and Win and compared for speed?
I did some comparisons several years ago, and found that Linux was faster,
except when writing to the screen, in which case DOS was a bit faster.
Irv
5. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Gordon Webster wrote:
>
> Maybe we need to do some serious groveling to Irv, to see if he might be
> persuaded to produce a GTK-based IDE for Linux (and Win), so that we
> could all use the same environment to develop code for both systems :)
Grovel also at Matthew Lewis, as he's done
some great work with wxWidgets. Some of the
examples for his code are impressive.
Now if he'd just provide OpenGL hooks, I'd
have the ultimate GUI interface for
cross-platform development. :)
6. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Im still seriously considering upgrading from XP to Linux,
> probably Mandrake or SuSE. Is there anything i should know
> about the main issues of the transition from using Euphoria
> on Windows to useing Eu on Linux?
>
Since leaving the desktop Linux scene behind with RH7, I just recently
came back with the nod of my strange and loving mother who wants to
leave the Windows desktop behind her, and I'll say, hands-down, Knoppix
is almost the best thing out there. Aside from the fact it didn't start
up with CUPS (which, under live SuSE, worked loverly) and wants to do
something different with my lameo vidcard that live SuSE didn't, it rocks.
So yay, I get to do cross-platform stuff with GTK. Woot.
Now only if I had some better docs... :)
--"LEVIATHAN"
7. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Right now I have RedHat 9.0 setup on my laptop, in text-mode only (no
X-Windows). I'm using it as a test Apache server for Euphoria CGI. That's
another thing Euphoria is great for in Linux. Seting up Apache is quite
easy, and once you do, you can make your own CGI webpages.
I prefer RedHat over Mandrake, although Madrake is one of the best. I was
trained on RedHat 9.0 so I know all the ins and outs and all the text-mode
setup (Mandrake uses different utilities for some things). As far as my
favorite editor, right now I use just use ed. I tried using Kate (comes with
KDE) but it only does syntax highlighting, it doesn't have a hot key to
execute, which I'm spoiled on.
~Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Getz" <guest at RapidEuphoria.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 8:32 AM
Subject: Upgrading from XP to Linux
>
>
> posted by: Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> Im still seriously considering upgrading from XP to Linux,
> probably Mandrake or SuSE. Is there anything i should know
> about the main issues of the transition from using Euphoria
> on Windows to useing Eu on Linux?
>
> Al
>
> Good luck with your programming!
>
>
>
>
8. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Gordon Webster wrote:
>
>
> Dear Al
>
> The lack of a good IDE seems to be the biggest downside to using Linux.
>
> After using the excellent win32lib and enhanced IDE under windows, I
> am forced to admit that this is one occasion where the windows environment
> is a lot more comfortable for app development with Euphoria (and as a
> Linux devotee, I am loathed to have to admit this!)
>
> Maybe we need to do some serious groveling to Irv, to see if he might be
> persuaded to produce a GTK-based IDE for Linux (and Win), so that we
> could all use the same environment to develop code for both systems :)
>
> BTW, if I might be so bold, I would like to ask all the Euphorians out
> there what they use when developing Eu apps under Linux.
>
> What is the most popular editor?
> What (if any) GUI libraries do people prefer?
> Are there any Linux IDEs currently in the works?
> Does anybody have any benchmarks where the same (non-GUI) code is run
> under Linux and Win and compared for speed?
As the developer of wxEuphoria (wxeuphoria.sourceforge.net), I'm somewhat
biased, but that's the library that I use. I've also started an IDE to
go along with it. The editor is based on the Win32Lib IDE's editor,
and the visual window builder doesn't work yet. I don't think I've
worked out all the bugs yet, but it's the editor I mainly use (both
windows and linux).
Matt Lewis
9. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Im still seriously considering upgrading from XP to Linux,
> probably Mandrake or SuSE. Is there anything i should know
> about the main issues of the transition from using Euphoria
> on Windows to useing Eu on Linux?
>
> Al
>
> Good luck with your programming!
>
Hi,
Well from my point of view it really has been a fairly painless
transition using Eu on red hat linux and now on freebsd. However
it was easier with red hat then it was setting up on freebsd(as it
may be expected).
After installation I have been using euphoria's ed from a terminal
which is right about where my competency lies(I'm no professional)plus
the fact that I actually like the editor that rds provides. However
not all of the keys work properly(in the "ed" editor) and the keys seem
to act differently depending on which x environment I am in(whether it be
x term or some other terminal I bring up)...
Without describing every little detail of a problem I have had here and there
Ill just say that the short answer is you might want to have a split up
configuration
like I have to make adapting easier, especially if your just learning on
unix like I am.I have one hard disk split 50/50 with win2000/freebsd
(and euphoria on both).
I also think it would be good to have another list or sublist for unix/eu
users.
Jason
10. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Redhat 9 or greater is the best way to go. If you decide to dual boot
operating systems go with the LILO option over GRUB. It's easire to use the
WINDOWS RECOVERY CONSOLE ( FIXBOOT AND FIXMBR, IN THAT ORDER ) and recover
your hard drive space. You might decide that you don't like LINUX.
THE VOICE OF EXPRERIENCE
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "JasonDube" <guest at RapidEuphoria.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2004 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
>
>
> posted by: JasonDube <dubetyrant at hotmail.com>
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Im still seriously considering upgrading from XP to Linux,
> > probably Mandrake or SuSE. Is there anything i should know
> > about the main issues of the transition from using Euphoria
> > on Windows to useing Eu on Linux?
> >
> > Al
> >
> > Good luck with your programming!
> >
>
> Hi,
>
> Well from my point of view it really has been a fairly painless
> transition using Eu on red hat linux and now on freebsd. However
> it was easier with red hat then it was setting up on freebsd(as it
> may be expected).
>
> After installation I have been using euphoria's ed from a terminal
> which is right about where my competency lies(I'm no professional)plus
> the fact that I actually like the editor that rds provides. However
> not all of the keys work properly(in the "ed" editor) and the keys seem
> to act differently depending on which x environment I am in(whether it be
> x term or some other terminal I bring up)...
>
> Without describing every little detail of a problem I have had here and
there
> Ill just say that the short answer is you might want to have a split up
configuration
> like I have to make adapting easier, especially if your just learning on
> unix like I am.I have one hard disk split 50/50 with win2000/freebsd
> (and euphoria on both).
>
> I also think it would be good to have another list or sublist for unix/eu
> users.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
11. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hello again,
Thanks for the replies, which answered some of my questions about
using Eu on Linux. I've responded below to each reply individually.
I just have to still wonder however, when i go to Linux using Eu
how i am going to update some of my programs that are already running
fine on Windows. I need to know a few more main things, like:
1. does linux have a registry ?
2. does linux have COM (or other process comm)?
3. does linux have shortcuts like win, and if so, are there op sys
level function calls that can read them?
4. is there a 'file manager' similar to Windows Explorer, which brings
up a listing of all the files on the system.
5. Very important, does it work with FAT32 hard disk or is there a
different file system in use?
In order of importance: 5,1,2,3,4.
What i'd have to do once Linux is installed is start converting Eu
programs over to run on that new sys.
REPLIES...
Irv:
No reboot? Sounds great! Windows op sys keeps saying you dont have to
reboot for errors, yet i find this isnt true -- it depends on the
problem, and some things like CD Burn just dont work right sometimes
and there's no other way to clear the error.
Is there a version of Mandrake sold in stores? I dont think i want
to download 650MB of stuff...rather have a cd...
I have an HD i can use for linux alone, so it doesnt have to share
with windows.
I dont have a win modem, but rather a network card. I can use
a 56k modem card if i have to, but the network card is better.
What exactly is EuGTK?
Thanks for all your answers, and for your offer to fill me in
on more details about Linux. Im not sure how smooth the
transistion will be. Right now i dont even know if Linux has
'exe' files 
Jason:
I'll most likely use a separate disk for Linux. At least for now
i'd like to keep the two op sys's apart from each other so there
cant be any interaction or problems.
Another list sounds interesting, because it seems like issues from
one sys to another will be very different.
Gordon:
So youre saying that apps for linux using Euphoria are a little
harder to write then in windows?
Daniel:
I'll have to check out Redhat next i guess.
I've already had a problem where Recovery wouldnt work, repair wouldnt
work, reinstall upgrade wouldnt work, only thing that worked was
to reinstall XP entirely, which wipes out all the settings and
program installs. What a pain.
Is there anything about Linux that someone wouldnt like?
"LEVIATHAN":
Im getting the impression that the docs for Linux arent that
good? How about for Mandrake?
Thanks for the answers.
Take care,
Al
Good luck with your programming!
12. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:01:08 -0700, Al Getz <guest at RapidEuphoria.com>
wrote:
>4. is there a 'file manager' similar to Windows Explorer, which brings
> up a listing of all the files on the system.
Yes.
>5. Very important, does it work with FAT32 hard disk or is there a=20
> different file system in use?
No, and Yes. While there are some versions of linux which run on a
fat32 drive, you should let linux reformat your second hard drive any
way it likes. There is a certain joy when you first crash linux (which
is not so hard if you know the root password), then when it reboots it
"scandisk"s your entire drive, but in about two seconds flat.
I believe Mandrake and Suse will automatically add the required
entries to your fstab file, to let you read the windows partitions (on
the other hard disk) from linux, but if not, it is a fairly simple
thing to edit, see eg http://delabs.tripod.com/notes/linux3.html
Also, read man fstab and man mount once linux is installed.
You can make the windows partition read-only if you like.
>Is there a version of Mandrake sold in stores? I dont think i want
>to download 650MB of stuff...rather have a cd...
I've seen them in the bigger PC World stores. Or just order a boxed
set online. I once bought Suze+RedHat+Slackware from Cheapbytes,
=A34.99 for all three (no manuals at that price, obviously!)
>I dont have a win modem, but rather a network card. I can use
>a 56k modem card if i have to, but the network card is better.
You can check if your network card is supported here
http://hardwaredb.suse.de/?LANG=en_UK
>Im not sure how smooth the transistion will be.
Like doing a crossword, no fun if it is *too* easy 
Pete
13. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>
>
> Hello again,
>
> Thanks for the replies, which answered some of my questions about
> using Eu on Linux. I've responded below to each reply individually.
> I just have to still wonder however, when i go to Linux using Eu
> how i am going to update some of my programs that are already running
> fine on Windows. I need to know a few more main things, like:
> 1. does linux have a registry ?
> 2. does linux have COM (or other process comm)?
> 3. does linux have shortcuts like win, and if so, are there op sys
> level function calls that can read them?
> 4. is there a 'file manager' similar to Windows Explorer, which brings
> up a listing of all the files on the system.
> 5. Very important, does it work with FAT32 hard disk or is there a
> different file system in use?
>
> In order of importance: 5,1,2,3,4.
Hi
Just my 2p worth.
Not wanting to start a distro war, I've tried Mandrake / red hat etc, for
several years, and found SuSe to be the quickest and easiest to install -
probably just personal preference - ALWAYS quicker than xp to install in
terms of time to install, including resizing and partitioning the hard
drive. I currently triple boot win95/xp/linux - GRUB handles it fine.
1. Linux does not have a registry - doesn't need one.
2. KDE has a version of COM (I think, never used it, or been aware of it)
3. Shortcuts - or links - hard and soft (!).
4. File managers galore - take your pick - some look exactly like explorer.
You could probably even use explorer if you wanted to using wine (windows
emulator, but wine stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator) - this does
use the windows registry.
5. FAT32, fat16, ntfs(read only), minix, ext2, ext3, reiser - etc etc - you
name it linux can read it.
Sounds like you want to try it first - find a knoppix cd, pop it in your
cd drive, and reboot - you will have a fully working linux system,
with all the bells and multimedia whistles you could want, and it won't
touch your hard drive - at all.
As far as a an ide for Irv's (superb) GTK toolkits, don't really need one
I did sort of start doing one for GTK1, but as I was doing it, actually
learnt that its probably just as easy to let gtk decide where to put
stuff.
Go for it. Linux is better than xp, and if it wasn't for all the games
that I have, and my bally ISDN modem (another story), I would be using
it exclusively. (incidentally there are a lot of directx games running on
Linux now using WineX, but this is commercial afik, and personally
haven't tried it).
Could go on - love Linux, anyway bye for now!
Chris
14. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>
>
> Hello again,
>
> Thanks for the replies, which answered some of my questions about
> using Eu on Linux. I've responded below to each reply individually.
> I just have to still wonder however, when i go to Linux using Eu
> how i am going to update some of my programs that are already running
> fine on Windows. I need to know a few more main things, like:
> 1. does linux have a registry ?
No. There's a totally different scheme for this.
Hardware and shared software are installed/setup by the "root" user,
and individual users have their own "home" directories with a file which
sets their individual preferences. Programs sometimes have their own
"resource" files (like ini files). For things like associating programs
with file types, each user can set them separately. For unknown file types,
a window will pop up asking what programs to use to open or view that file.
> 2. does linux have COM (or other process comm)?
There's something called CORBA:
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~kksiazek/tuto.html
> 3. does linux have shortcuts like win, and if so, are there op sys
> level function calls that can read them?
Yes.
> 4. is there a 'file manager' similar to Windows Explorer, which brings
> up a listing of all the files on the system.
Your choice of maybe a dozen different ones. However, I never use any
of them. I use the built-in browser (konqueror) for navigating the file
system, to copy/move/run programs, and surfing the web.
One of the nice things about Linux is that you can browse thru archived
(zip, tar, bzip) files using the browser - you don't have to unzip them
first. You can drag a file from inside a zipped package and drop it on
your desktop (or wherever) and it's ready to use. No need for Winzip
or the like.
> 5. Very important, does it work with FAT32 hard disk or is there a
> different file system in use?
When you install Linux, you will have full access to your Windows
drive/partition. Most likely it will show up as a folder on your
desktop. If you install wine, you may be able to execute many of
your Windows and DOS programs. Linux uses it's own (better) file
system for itself.
Windows is unable to see or use the Linux partition.
> In order of importance: 5,1,2,3,4.
Heh.. you seem to think that the Windows Registry is a "good thing" :)
> What i'd have to do once Linux is installed is start converting Eu
> programs over to run on that new sys.
>
> REPLIES...
>
> Irv:
> No reboot? Sounds great! Windows op sys keeps saying you dont have to
> reboot for errors, yet i find this isnt true -- it depends on the
> problem, and some things like CD Burn just dont work right sometimes
> and there's no other way to clear the error.
You don't have to reboot after installing new software, and you rarely
if ever have to reboot for other reasons. It is possible to write a
really bad program which will cause xWindows to freeze, in which case
you switch to the text-mode console and kill the offending program.
> Is there a version of Mandrake sold in stores? I dont think i want
> to download 650MB of stuff...rather have a cd...
http:cheapbytes.com - they have always been fast and dependable
(and cheap :)
> I have an HD i can use for linux alone, so it doesnt have to share
> with windows.
That's good, if only from the standpoint that you will feel safer.
If you are really nervous, just disconnect the Windows drive.
It's not easy to accidently format it if it's sitting on the desk.
> I dont have a win modem, but rather a network card. I can use
> a 56k modem card if i have to, but the network card is better.
Network card? Do you mean cable modem?
> What exactly is EuGTK?
A wrapper which allows you to write Euphoria programs which use the
GTK graphics user interface library. For Linux, there are GTK,
QT, and wxWindows libraries (plus several others) which supply the
usual windows, buttons, and other controls you expect to see in your
programs. EuGTK is similar to Win32Lib, except that there is no IDE,
and GTK can be run on Windows.
(GTK is far simpler, thus easier to learn and use, in my opinion).
> Thanks for all your answers, and for your offer to fill me in
> on more details about Linux. Im not sure how smooth the
> transistion will be. Right now i dont even know if Linux has
> 'exe' files
No. Of course, you can name a file anything you like, including the
.exe part, but that doesn't mean it will run :) Linux has a permissions
system, where you can set whether a file is "executable" or not, as
well as who is allowed to look at, edit, or run that file.
Seriously, you might want to look for a good book about Linux.
The manuals which come with SuSE Linux provide valuable help
with getting started. SuSE is available in stores (MEI Microcenter,
for example) and probably from CheapBytes.
For programming (not setup) help, I recommend "Beginning Linux Programming"
by Stones and Matthew, WROX Press. (Amazon.com)
Regards,
Irv
15. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Chris Burch wrote:
> Just my 2p worth.
>
> Not wanting to start a distro war, I've tried Mandrake / red hat etc, for
> several years, and found SuSe to be the quickest and easiest to install -
> probably just personal preference - ALWAYS quicker than xp to install in
> terms of time to install, including resizing and partitioning the hard
> drive. I currently triple boot win95/xp/linux - GRUB handles it fine.
Agreed. SuSE and Mandrake would be the choices for a newcomer.
Here are a few more hints:
Mandrake (and most other) distributions allow you to choose different
installation options - for example:
game station [ ]
development workstation [ ]
server [ ]
aoffice workstation [ ]
etc.
Choose one or more.
Each option gets you a different group of programs chosen from among the
thousands which come on the CD's. You may want to try different options
just to see what's there. Of course, once you know what's available,
you can install the desired programs one at a time whenever you want.
Until and unless you know what you are doing, DO NOT try to choose
individual programs at installation time!
Secondly, if you are coming from Windows, then choose the KDE desktop,
and allow it to start automatically. That looks and works the most like
Windows, so you'll feel more at home.
If you plan to write GUI programs, choose to have the Gnome destop installed
as well (but leave KDE as the default). Doing that will automatically
install most of what you need to use GTK and EuGTK.
Lastly, give yourself time to actually get accustomed to Linux, and
you'll most likely love it. It requires a different way of thinking,
just like moving from DOS to Windows did, or like changing from Windows
to Mac.
Regards,
Irv
16. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>5. Very important, does it work with FAT32 hard disk or is there
> a different file system in use?
Get SlackWare's ZipSlack, SlackWares mini-distribution, that runs
on top of FAT32 without reformatting.
As long as you have FAT32, and can reboot into real-DOS (you can
even do this with XP, as long as you use FAT32 and create a DOS
boot-disk from Win95/98) you just install it in a root directory
(for instance, d:\linux), reboot into real DOS, cd to d:\linux,
and run a batch file which loads Linux, and away you go.
ZipSlack only takes about 50 megs of disk space, but it is a
minimal distribution. But, you can easily add other packages,
such as the development system (e.g., gcc and friends),
x-windows, and so on.
It works for me.
17. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hello again,
Thanks again for all the help on Linux with Eu and related.
I've responded to all your replies i think in the order they
had gotten posted...
Pete:
Scandisk in 2 seconds? Wow, i like Linux already
It looks like Redhat wont be an option, because i cant
find my MotherBoard on their hardware list.
What's up with Cheapbytes anyway, how do they sell their
CD's so cheap (compared to the 'store' version, which
seem to be the same version?).
I was checking the Net Card compat, but i realized i'll
have to check to see that there is DSL software available
from my isp too Forgot about that...they have it
for all windows platforms but im not sure yet about ux.
I hope the transition doesnt take too much time that's all.
I hope the hardware works once installed
I wonder what to do if something doesnt work???
Chris Burch:
About the registry...I have programs already written that
depend on the registry, not that i cant change that, but
if it had one i wouldnt have to do anything, that's all.
Wow all those disk file formats? NTFS will be nice too.
I guess once up and running i'll have to check out GTK and
see what all this talk is about it
WineX? Sounds like something i should look into also...
Irv:
This sounds very different from Windows, so i guess it's going
to take some time to learn the differences and what to do
with the programs i already have written.
If programs use 'ini' like files instead of the registry then
i guess i should write anymore (Win) programs that use the registry?
Another important question is is there a disk size limitation like
10 GBytes or 100 GBytes etc.?
COBRA sounds interesting too. Is it possible to write a Euphoria
wrap for the 'interfaces', if they even have that?
Yeah naturally a file browser is important...what do they use
for the 'dir' command equivalent?
What kind of file system is it that linux uses, basically?
I take it you dont like the windows registry?
If i buy from Cheapbytes will i get the same software?
and will i know what to do with it?
Yes, Network card for the DSL modem. The modem works off the
card which gets installed in a slot in the M.B.
GTK does sound very interesting, and one of the first things
ill have to look into once up and running.
SuSE sounded the most promising, but i might have a hardware
issue with my 3d graphics card. It looks as if it will only
work up to 16 bit color instead of 32 bit color which is
of course better. On the other hand, Mandrake looks like
it will handle the 32 bit color.
I'll have to see if i can get that book so i can learn some of
the basics about linux. Im really quite lost right now
I have a feeling im going to like Linux. The Gnome thing
sounded (and i saw screenshots) pretty good.
Ed Davis:
ZipSlack? Maybe i should learn more about this...where can
i take a look?
I guess my main concern is will the main hardware i have
now (mainboard, vidcard, soundcard, net or modem) work with
whatever version of linux i use?
Thanks again to all of you for your quick replies, which
help out quite a bit in finding out how to use Linux and
especially with Euphoria.
Take care,
Al
And ...good luck with your programming!
18. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>ZipSlack? Maybe i should learn more about this...where can i
>take a look?
Slackware is at: http://www.slackware.com/
And ZipSlack is at: http://www.slackware.com/zipslack/
Note that ZipSlack is admittedly techie, but if you can figure
out Windows com programming, it should be a cinch. Besides, if I
can get ZipSlack working, anybody can.
>I guess my main concern is will the main hardware i have now
>(mainboard, vidcard, soundcard, net or modem) work with whatever
>version of linux i use?
ZipSlack and Koppix might be good to test this. You could
download ZipSlack, and if it works, I would think the other major
distributions would also work.
19. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hi again Ed,
Thanks for the info. I downloaded the zip part of Slack
and unzipped it and modified the linux.bat file but was
unable to load the linux 'shell' (or whatever it is) because
apparently the cpu has to be in the real mode? I didnt
know this beforehand. Is this the same with all linux
versions?
I'll have to boot over to 98 and try the dos window there,
it doesnt work from XP, unless you have any ideas ?
Take care,
Al
Good luck with your programming!
20. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
> Irv:
> This sounds very different from Windows, so i guess it's going
> to take some time to learn the differences and what to do
> with the programs i already have written.
> If programs use 'ini' like files instead of the registry then
> i guess i should write anymore (Win) programs that use the registry?
> Another important question is is there a disk size limitation like
> 10 GBytes or 100 GBytes etc.?
Maximum filesize is 2gig, unless you are running a 64bit processor.
I doubt you could afford a disk drive larger than Linux can handle.
The XFS filesystem can handle terrabytes.
> COBRA sounds interesting too. Is it possible to write a Euphoria
> wrap for the 'interfaces', if they even have that?
First question would be why do you need it?
What is it you intend to do?
> Yeah naturally a file browser is important...what do they use
> for the 'dir' command equivalent?
er.. dir works :)
but the unix equivalent is ls
> What kind of file system is it that linux uses, basically?
The newer versions use ext3 or Reiser, both of which are "journaling"
file systems.
> I take it you dont like the windows registry?
I just wondered what you were doing that required access to the
registry (other than the usual file associations?)
> If i buy from Cheapbytes will i get the same software?
> and will i know what to do with it?
CheapBytes downloads the public version and burns CD's.
They don't print books or ship stuff to stores, so that
cuts their costs. That's the same version you would download,
generally. The version you buy might be different, for example,
RedHat's boxed set comes with support and AFAIK, some proprietary
programs which can't be distributed for free. You won't be
missing much, however, as the public versions have everything
you really need, plus a lot more.
The second part of that question is harder to answer.
If you can install Windows, then Mandrake, for example, will
be just as easy. When it comes to actually using Linux, you'll have to
decide for yourself.
> Yes, Network card for the DSL modem. The modem works off the
> card which gets installed in a slot in the M.B.
You may not need anything special. Mandrake is good about
recognizing and setting up network cards, etc. No harm in
trying.
> GTK does sound very interesting, and one of the first things
> ill have to look into once up and running.
> SuSE sounded the most promising, but i might have a hardware
> issue with my 3d graphics card. It looks as if it will only
> work up to 16 bit color instead of 32 bit color which is
> of course better. On the other hand, Mandrake looks like
> it will handle the 32 bit color.
Knoppix (which someone mentioned) is also available from CheapBytes.
It is a single CD which runs without touching your hard drive.
Get a copy, try that first. If everything works ok, then you
can be pretty sure that its safe to install Linux on the HD.
> I'll have to see if i can get that book so i can learn some of
> the basics about linux. Im really quite lost right now
> I have a feeling im going to like Linux. The Gnome thing
> sounded (and i saw screenshots) pretty good.
The book I mentioned does not cover installing Linux, but begins
with how to write programs, using a variety of languages.
Irv
21. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>
>
> Hi again Ed,
>
> Thanks for the info. I downloaded the zip part of Slack
> and unzipped it and modified the linux.bat file but was
> unable to load the linux 'shell' (or whatever it is) because
> apparently the cpu has to be in the real mode? I didnt
> know this beforehand. Is this the same with all linux
> versions?
> I'll have to boot over to 98 and try the dos window there,
> it doesnt work from XP, unless you have any ideas ?
loadlin.exe is the culprit.
You can either boot from a DOS floppy, or DOS mode in '98, or
download the Slackware boot disk.
Be aware, however, that in running Slackware (which is very good
and stable) you are running a system built for 'geeks', not your
average user. And, since it's designed to be small and easy to
download, you are getting only a tiny fraction of the available
software you would get with a 4 or 6 CD set.
Irv
22. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Just to chime in with my $0.02.
I started using Linux with Slackware v7.1 with a 4 CD boxed set that I
bought at BestBuy.
I have since upgraded to v9.1 from source that I downloaded from the
Slackware site.
I dual boot XP/Linux. No problems.
I connect to the internet through a DSL modem using RoaringPenguin software.
http://www.roaringpenguin.com/products/rp-pppoe/index.php
Works great.
If you can carefully follow directions, you should be able to get Linux
up and running with no problems.
I had to do very little editing of files to get Slackware running. It has
definitely gotten easier since v7.1.
23. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
>Thanks for the info. I downloaded the zip part of Slack and
>unzipped it and modified the linux.bat file but was unable to
>load the linux 'shell' (or whatever it is) because apparently
>the cpu has to be in the real mode? I didnt know this
>beforehand.
I guess you missed that part of my original message? Or perhaps
I wasn't clear?
Here it is again:
and can reboot into real-DOS (you can even do this with XP, as
long as you use FAT32 and create a DOS boot-disk from Win95/98)
you just install it in a root directory (for instance, d:\linux),
reboot into real DOS, cd to d:\linux, and run a batch file which
loads Linux, and away you go.
So, you need to reboot into real-DOS mode, and then run Linux.
Again, as long as you can create a win95/98 boot disk, this even
works for XP - that is what I'm using.
>Is this the same with all linux versions?
No, only for ZipSlack, Pigmy, Dragon, Loop, and probably a few
other small distributions that can run on top of DOS.
Note that ZipSlack doesn't have to run on top of DOS - but to do
that, you'd need to create an ext2 partition.
>I'll have to boot over to 98 and try the dos window there, it
>doesnt work from XP, unless you have any ideas ?
See above: Make sure your XP has a fat32 drive, create a Win98
DOS boot disk, boot into real DOS, log onto the drive where
ZipSlack is stored, and load it up.
24. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
(Stuff about using ZipSlack snipped)
Ed Davis wrote:
>I guess you missed that part of my original message? Or perhaps
>I wasn't clear?
>
>Here it is again:
Re-reading my message, it comes across sort of harsh, which
wasn't my intention.
What I meant to say was:
"I probably wasn't clear in my original message - sorry about
that!"
25. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Ed Davis wrote:
> See above: Make sure your XP has a fat32 drive, create a Win98
> DOS boot disk, boot into real DOS, log onto the drive where
> ZipSlack is stored, and load it up.
And if all this extra stuff makes Linux look like more trouble than it's
worth, remember who it was who didn't want to wait a few days for some
CD's :)
BTW, the first version of Linux that I used was Slackware, and it is good,
but it purposely stays on the trailing edge. IOW, stability is more important
to them than working with all the latest gadgets you might want to hang
on your computer. Bear that in mind when evaluating things.
Irv
26. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
For what its worth....
Mandrake and SuSe both have "live" bootable
single CD test drive versions - no installation necessary,
just like Knoppix.
This is an interesting site for information about
the multitude of Linux distributions:
http://www.distrowatch.com/
Regards,
Ken Rhodes
100% Microsoft Free!
27. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Another source for Linux downloads and information:
http://www.linuxiso.org/
Ken Rhodes
100% Microsoft Free!
28. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
I'd also recommend having a look at PCLinuxOS:
http://www.pclinuxonline.com/pclos/html/download.html
Version 0.7 was just released, and it's quite nice. It's a bit more "consumer"
oriented than Knoppix, so it's got less compilers and more productivity
tools. Compared to Knoppix, it looks a bit "prettier".
The main caveat is that it defaults the root password to "root" and guest
password to "guest", so I'd change those before going online.
(Klaus Knopper, the author of Knoppix, doesn't tell people what the root
password for Knoppix is, as you can change it in a root console without
knowing it).
-- David Cuny
29. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
To start with. I know very little of Linux.
Here is my wisdom dump.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Getz" <guest at RapidEuphoria.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hello again,
Thanks again for all the help on Linux with Eu and related.
I've responded to all your replies i think in the order they
had gotten posted...
Pete:
Scandisk in 2 seconds? Wow, i like Linux already
It looks like Redhat wont be an option, because i cant
find my MotherBoard on their hardware list.
What's up with Cheapbytes anyway, how do they sell their
CD's so cheap (compared to the 'store' version, which
seem to be the same version?).
You don't get paper. You don't get books for manuals.
You are new to linux so you will benefit greatly from the
manuals from a store bought system. I've used Mandrake
in the past and loved it. I've since been advised to try Suse.
I now pass that advise to you. The person seriously
suggested buying it in a store so that I get the manuals.
I'm seriously considering doing it.
I was checking the Net Card compat, but i realized i'll
have to check to see that there is DSL software available
from my isp too Forgot about that...they have it
for all windows platforms but im not sure yet about ux.
I hope the transition doesnt take too much time that's all.
I hope the hardware works once installed
I wonder what to do if something doesnt work???
1) Get Knoppix and try the PPPoE software that is on it.
2) Ask your ISP if they use PPPoE software.
3) Check the internet for your software and see if it is PPPoE
4) I bet your DSL software is PPPoE. So, don't be worried
about it.
Chris Burch:
About the registry...I have programs already written that
depend on the registry, not that i cant change that, but
if it had one i wouldnt have to do anything, that's all.
Wow all those disk file formats? NTFS will be nice too.
I guess once up and running i'll have to check out GTK and
see what all this talk is about it
WineX? Sounds like something i should look into also...
Windows 3.1
* Win.ini
* System.ini
* Program.ini
Windows 9x +
* Registry = system.dat & user.dat
Both:
Extremely Centralized information and settings system.
Binary and not overly file based.
Provides a faster load of those settings but requires
specialized tools just to read and manipulate.
A rats nest of settings for everything windows.
whether it be Desktop Wallpaper, Icon Spacing to
a virus that just wants to hide from people.
A nice little nest for rats such as trojans and viruses.
Too freaking easy to hide stuff. Such as viruses, trojans,
spyware, underground data gathering by anyone including
Microsoft or PC manufacturer.
No, I don't like the <curse> registry Centralized binary
systems make it are too easy to hide NEW things that
don't belong. And more difficult to repair a system that
is broken somewhere within that corrupted data space
called the REGISTRY.
OK, I ranted enough about the registry.
OH, and I use Windows heavily because I have less
trouble working with it. If had taken the time with
Linux that I have with DOS and Windows then I
wouldn't touch Windows unless forced to. And only
then with disdain and disgust.
Irv:
This sounds very different from Windows, so i guess it's going
to take some time to learn the differences and what to do
with the programs i already have written.
If programs use 'ini' like files instead of the registry then
i guess i should write anymore (Win) programs that use the registry?
Another important question is is there a disk size limitation like
10 GBytes or 100 GBytes etc.?
Not that I know. I believe linux has more flexible filing systems.
COBRA sounds interesting too. Is it possible to write a Euphoria
wrap for the 'interfaces', if they even have that?
Yeah naturally a file browser is important...what do they use
for the 'dir' command equivalent?
dir = ls
cls = clear
type = cat
cd = cd
md = mkdir
rd = rmdir
move = mv
rename = mv
copy = cp
Ask about some more dos commands I we will be glad to tell
you of the linux equivilents where they exist and I know them.
Linux has several shells available. Better batch type of control.
bash, kern, csh ....
What kind of file system is it that linux uses, basically?
No drive letters, device and file based
Someone may need to correct me on this.
/dev/hda1 -- 1st Hard Drive 1st partion
/dev/hda2 -- 1st Hard Drive 2nd partition
/dev/hdb1 -- 2nd Hard Drive 1st partition
/dev/fd -- floppy drive I think.
But you don't use those. You use the symbolic links.
sort of like short cuts.
/mnt/floppy
/mnt/cdrom
They really can be named anything and are controlled by (fstab?)
eh, I don't know where. but it is a text file, unlike the regsitry,
and can be changed using any text editor.
Text editors? Good luck, you can bet on finding "vi" but
everything else depends on Flavor of linux and desktops installed.
Oh, and you can bet that several are installed.
I take it you dont like the windows registry?
If i buy from Cheapbytes will i get the same software?
Same software, No Book form of manuals. CD install disks
only and on CD manuals only. WARNING: Likely not all
versions of Linux provide ON CD manual. Some versions
will be text only, others will be HTML only, and others will
be either. Get use to using "man" short for manual.
You can look up a lot of commands but it isn't the same as
old DOS 5.0 help.com. You can't just run it and browse
for commands and what they do.
When you don't know how to do something that should be
dead simple, It probably is. Best and solution is to go online
and chat or send an email. The dumbest questions are the most
common. You will find a thick mix of people responding or
not responding.
Responses like:
Welcome aboard and you just need to do this
AND
Damn noobie, Read the manual.
and will i know what to do with it?
it = cheapbytes CD software.
insert CD
reboot computer
Follow prompts
Be very careful about which drive partion and install it on and
various other such common sense warnings.
Yes, Network card for the DSL modem. The modem works off the
card which gets installed in a slot in the M.B.
Right, Network card that uses DHCP to connect to external modem.
Modem requires PPPoE Username and Password for connected
verification. PS: there is something called provisioning that Cable
and DSL companies do. I haven't a clue what the heck that means.
It is apparently related to the physical line and not the devices
attached to them. Devices = Network card, DSL modem, Cable
modem, Router.
GTK does sound very interesting, and one of the first things
ill have to look into once up and running.
SuSE sounded the most promising, but i might have a hardware
issue with my 3d graphics card. It looks as if it will only
work up to 16 bit color instead of 32 bit color which is
of course better. On the other hand, Mandrake looks like
it will handle the 32 bit color.
If it works on one then it will work on the other. Just a matter
of patching. Don't ask me how. I just know it is an Xserver
thing and X is generic and cross flavor.. or should I say cross
distro. Others here should be able to help you patch it.
I'll have to see if i can get that book so i can learn some of
the basics about linux. Im really quite lost right now
That is why I suggest you by Suse in a store. It will come
with the book.
I have a feeling im going to like Linux. The Gnome thing
sounded (and i saw screenshots) pretty good.
Ed Davis:
ZipSlack? Maybe i should learn more about this...where can
i take a look?
I wouldn't suggest ZipSlack for you. It will likely scare to death.
BUT, I do suggest you keep it in your mind for when you have
SOME experience with Linux. That doesn't mean wait until you
think you are a linux god. Because I don't know anybody that
really feels as a linux god. :)
I guess my main concern is will the main hardware i have
now (mainboard, vidcard, soundcard, net or modem) work with
whatever version of linux i use?
You won't truely know until you try. By Knoppix from
cheapbytes. It is dead simple and you don't actually install it.
Even still, your hardware may be even better supported with a
more complete type of distro such as Suse or Mandrake.
Knoppix is fairly complete for its size though.
Thanks again to all of you for your quick replies, which
help out quite a bit in finding out how to use Linux and
especially with Euphoria.
Take care,
Al
And ...good luck with your programming!
Unkmar
30. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hello again to all of you Linux fans
Before i get to the Replies, one more quick question...
Whats the easiest way to get Mandrake with manuals?
Oh one more, sorry:
Does linux have file mapping that could be used with Eu
programming?
---Replies---
Irv:
I assumed COBRA could be used for two process communications,
which is something i use quite a bit (or multiple processes).
I use the windows registry for my own purposes, not for any
programs i submit to the Eu archive. For my own stuff,
i find it's quite useful for storing anything you would
normally store in an ini file such as 'last values' or
file paths or directory paths that your programs have to
rememeber the next time they are opened. Once you start
using it you dont want to go back to ini files, but i guess
i could if i have to. Just imagine one big file where
all the program ini files are stored but is addressed like
a file system directory and you've got the win registry
Using linux will be ok for me if it has a decent GUI.
I think it does so that will be great.
I tried the ZipSlack, but it appears to only be a console
type shell...not what im looking for...and the x windows
is another 350mb download. Should i try this? It will
be a long download but if it shows off linux a little
maybe ill try it.
Evan:
I was thinking of triple booting XP/98/Linux.
I'll have to check out the link you gave there to
see if that will help with my modem too.
Thanks!
Ed:
Yeah i didnt remember you had said that
I got it booted from 98's dos and it appears to
work, but i noted that it's mainly a dos like
shell, not a desktop or anything 
I was looking for a desktop type interface
with perhaps dos capabilities too, and of course
GUI.
I was a little disappointed to find out it would
only run in real mode too, which i dont really
care for but if i can find another version
of ux that doesnt it'll be fine.
Ken Rhodes:
Thanks for the links, ill have to check them out.
Looks like they both have lots of info on Linux.
Dave C:
Geeze, another version of Linux
Too many to choose from now he he.
I guess im looking for something that has been tried
and proven to some extent, and is most compat with
the hardware i already have. Of course this means
a good hardware list -- which i didnt like with
Redhat -- their list doesnt seem complete or something.
That puts them at the bottom of the list for me.
Unkmar:
Yes SuSE sounded interesting too, ill have to double
check the graphics card issue. I dont want to get
stuck using 16 bit color of course.
How large of a download is Koppix?
DSL software is PPPoE on win98.
Nice breakdown on the win registry, i guess it has
it's downside and upside.
Thanks for the command list...i will probably try a few things
out with commands like that, but i have to say if i HAVE
to use command line commands then i havent gotten what
i was after in linux
I tied ZipSlack now and have gotten it to boot as per
instructions from Eu users like you and found some
at the site too, and although it does look interesting
im after a desktop shell rather then command line thing.
Thanks again Unkmar for the great info you supplied.
Thanks again to all of you who supplied such great
information that helps me decide various things about
linux and how to use it too.
PS. I think it will be great to get my first program
in Eu on Linux up and running I guess that means
i'll have to purchase the Linux edition of Eu at
some point?
Take care,
Al
Good luck with your programming!
31. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Heya!
Al Getz wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> Thanks for the replies, which answered some of my questions about
> using Eu on Linux. I've responded below to each reply individually.
> I just have to still wonder however, when i go to Linux using Eu
> how i am going to update some of my programs that are already running
> fine on Windows. I need to know a few more main things, like:
> 1. does linux have a registry ?
Not really, no. It's got /dev/proc, but that's built on the fly, and
it's not really a registry.
Basically, no, no registry to corrupt.
> 2. does linux have COM (or other process comm)?
Like RPC?
> 3. does linux have shortcuts like win, and if so, are there op sys
> level function calls that can read them?
Symlinks! Yes. 'man ln' :)
> 4. is there a 'file manager' similar to Windows Explorer, which brings
> up a listing of all the files on the system.
Midnight Commander! Or there's Konqueror for KDE, too :)
> 5. Very important, does it work with FAT32 hard disk or is there a
> different file system in use?
No, it, depending on setup, uses either ext2, ext3, reiserfs, or even
some other ones. And can do read+write VFS (FAT16/FAT23), and with some
third-party utils, NTFS4 and NTFS5 :)
>
> In order of importance: 5,1,2,3,4.
>
> What i'd have to do once Linux is installed is start converting Eu
> programs over to run on that new sys.
> "LEVIATHAN":
> Im getting the impression that the docs for Linux arent that
> good? How about for Mandrake?
>
There's docs for pretty much everything. And if there isn't any, someone
will make 'em :)
>
> Thanks for the answers.
No provs :)
32. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>Yeah i didnt remember you had said that I got it booted from
>98's dos and it appears to work, but i noted that it's mainly a
>dos like shell, not a desktop or anything I was looking for
>a desktop type interface with perhaps dos capabilities too, and
>of course GUI.
As I tried to say, ZipSlack is a minimal Linux. I was under the
impression that you wanted to see if your system would run Linux
at all, and I was thinking ZipSlack would be a good way to find
out. And now you know :)
If you want a GUI shell, read the FAQ about downloading
x-windows. But, at this point, it sounds like ZipSlack might be
a little more than you'd like to fiddle with, so you would
probably be better off with another more user friendly
distribution.
>I was a little disappointed to find out it would only run in
>real mode too, which i dont really care for but if i can
>find another version of ux that doesnt it'll be fine.
No, it does not run in real mode. But Windows runs in protected
mode, and so Linux can't (easily?) run in protected mode while
Windows is at the same time.
So, you boot to real-mode DOS, run Linux, and Linux takes over,
and runs in protected mode.
Does that make sense?
You can get a glimpse of protected mode by switching consoles
(ctrl-alt f1 through f5 or f6). You can start running processes
in each one, switch consoles, and they'll continue to run, and,
they are protected from each other. Additionally, from the
command line you can spawn off background processes too.
33. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
> Whats the easiest way to get Mandrake with manuals?
Call your local computer store and ask, or order from
Mandrake: http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/range
The Discovery 10 package looks like a good one for you.
> Irv:
> I assumed COBRA could be used for two process communications,
> which is something i use quite a bit (or multiple processes).
You have sockets, RPC, pipes, shared memory, and with GTK
a plug/socket arrangement where another GTK program can be
inserted into your running program.
> I use the windows registry for my own purposes, not for any
> programs i submit to the Eu archive. For my own stuff,
> i find it's quite useful for storing anything you would
> normally store in an ini file such as 'last values' or
> file paths or directory paths that your programs have to
> rememeber the next time they are opened. Once you start
> using it you dont want to go back to ini files, but i guess
> i could if i have to. Just imagine one big file where
> all the program ini files are stored but is addressed like
> a file system directory and you've got the win registry
Yes. And that's the problem with it. Anything and anybody can
change it, and they frequently do. Can we say "spyware"?
> Using linux will be ok for me if it has a decent GUI.
> I think it does so that will be great.
> I tried the ZipSlack, but it appears to only be a console
> type shell...not what im looking for...and the x windows
> is another 350mb download. Should i try this? It will
> be a long download but if it shows off linux a little
> maybe ill try it.
Don't. You will then spend a lot of time complaining about how
Linux is so "incomplete" and "so hard to set up".
You would not try to load 1/3 of Windows XP, and then complain
when it doesn't work right, would you?
If not, then don't do that for Linux either. Just get a full
version which was designed to do what you aparently want to do:
Desktop, internet, and program development for someone who isn't
a Linux geek.
Slackware (even the most complete version) is designed mostly
for people who want to run services - mail, web, database, etc.
Not aimed at the desktop (ohh... pretty icons!) clicky folk.
The ones designed for that purpose include SuSE, Mandrake, and Knoppix.
> Dave C:
> Geeze, another version of Linux
> Too many to choose from now he he.
> I guess im looking for something that has been tried
> and proven to some extent, and is most compat with
> the hardware i already have.
Honestly, you're not going to find that on any list.
You could try asking in a linux group to see if someone else is
running the same hardware. The Atlanta Linux group is a big one:
http://ale.org - look thru their archives, and subscribe if you
want.
But why all the agitation about this? It isn't like your computer
will explode. Just try a couple of cheap installations. If something
doesn't work, then look around the web to see if there is a cure.
If not, toss the disk and try another.
> PS. I think it will be great to get my first program
> in Eu on Linux up and running I guess that means
> i'll have to purchase the Linux edition of Eu at
> some point?
Don't tell Rob I said this, but you could just use the free
version, it works fine.
Irv
34. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
>From: Shari Vegas <lordlev at osrf.washingtoncs.com>
>Reply-To: EUforum at topica.com
>To: EUforum at topica.com
>Subject: Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 02:19:38 -0700
>
>Heya!
>
>Al Getz wrote:
>
>>Hello again,
>>
>>Thanks for the replies, which answered some of my questions about
>>using Eu on Linux. I've responded below to each reply individually.
>>I just have to still wonder however, when i go to Linux using Eu
>>how i am going to update some of my programs that are already running
>>fine on Windows. I need to know a few more main things, like:
>>1. does linux have a registry ?
>
>Not really, no. It's got /dev/proc, but that's built on the fly, and it's
>not really a registry.
>
Not even close. /proc is more of an information file system for what's
going on in the kernel.
>Basically, no, no registry to corrupt.
>
>>2. does linux have COM (or other process comm)?
>
>Like RPC?
>
COM isn't quite process communications. There are several things to use,
as Irv pointed out.
>>3. does linux have shortcuts like win, and if so, are there op sys
>>level function calls that can read them?
>
>Symlinks! Yes. 'man ln' :)
>
>>4. is there a 'file manager' similar to Windows Explorer, which brings
>> up a listing of all the files on the system.
>
>Midnight Commander! Or there's Konqueror for KDE, too :)
>
>>5. Very important, does it work with FAT32 hard disk or is there a
>>different file system in use?
>
>No, it, depending on setup, uses either ext2, ext3, reiserfs, or even some
>other ones. And can do read+write VFS (FAT16/FAT23), and with some
>third-party utils, NTFS4 and NTFS5 :)
>
And don't forget Amiga, Mac HFS, Solaris disks, Acorn tables (what the
heck are those, anyway?), and just about anything else you could think of.
>>
>>In order of importance: 5,1,2,3,4.
>>
>>What i'd have to do once Linux is installed is start converting Eu
>>programs over to run on that new sys.
>
>>"LEVIATHAN":
>>Im getting the impression that the docs for Linux arent that
>>good? How about for Mandrake?
>
>There's docs for pretty much everything. And if there isn't any, someone
>will make 'em :)
>
You just might need to be very good at Google searching to find them.
>>
>>Thanks for the answers.
>
>No provs :)
~[ WingZone ]~
http://wingzone.tripod.com/
35. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
>From: irv mullins <guest at RapidEuphoria.com>
>Reply-To: EUforum at topica.com
>To: EUforum at topica.com
>Subject: Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 05:34:45 -0700
>
>posted by: irv mullins <irvm at ellijay.com>
>
>Al Getz wrote:
>
> > Whats the easiest way to get Mandrake with manuals?
>Call your local computer store and ask, or order from
>Mandrake: http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/range
>The Discovery 10 package looks like a good one for you.
>
> > Irv:
> > I assumed COBRA could be used for two process communications,
> > which is something i use quite a bit (or multiple processes).
>
It's CORBA, btw, a messaging interface between distributed objects, not a=
=20
snake.
>You have sockets, RPC, pipes, shared memory, and with GTK
>a plug/socket arrangement where another GTK program can be
>inserted into your running program.
>
<snip>
> > PS. I think it will be great to get my first program
> > in Eu on Linux up and running I guess that means
> > i'll have to purchase the Linux edition of Eu at
> > some point?
>
>Don't tell Rob I said this, but you could just use the free
>version, it works fine.
>
You get all four versions when you register, you know. But if you want=
=20
to pay Rob again, that's alright.
>Irv
>
~[ WingZone ]~
http://wingzone.tripod.com/
hs=20
FREE*=20=20=20
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=10=
34&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
37. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
> Irv:
> Looks like they want $50 for that Discovery 10 thing.
> Hmmmm.....it better work good for that cache
You're paying about $6 for the CD's, the rest goes for the printed
matter, packaging, and installation support.
You'll have to decide if those things are important to you.
Because Linux is continually updated, I don't think it is a good
idea to buy a new boxed set every 6 months or so, I would rather
spend my money on a really good programming book, and buy the
cheap cd sets. Google supplies the docs.
> Shared memory you say? sounds just great!
> Where can i find docs on using it?
page 466.
Seriously, don't you think you should just try Linux for a few
days before you get too deeply involved in what are pretty esoteric
programming topics? I mean, anything you can do with Windows can be
done (usually better) with Linux - and was probably being done by
Unix users when Bill Gates was still riding a trike.
> I see what you mean about downloading, and i want docs with
> it too.
The minimum useful download is going to be about the size of a single
CD. If you have a really fast internet connection, you could get this:
http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk_oc_intro.html
It's based on Debian, I believe, and is supposed to be super easy to
install.
Irv
38. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hi Irv,
"Anything that can be done in windows can be done in Linux"
Ok, that answers most of my questions
That's all i need to know i guess.
I guess some things will require a major update to get
to run in Linux though, right?
Xandros wont be compat with my mainboard
Thanks again Irv...
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
irv mullins wrote:
>
>
> Al Getz wrote:
>
> > Irv:
> > Looks like they want $50 for that Discovery 10 thing.
> > Hmmmm.....it better work good for that cache
>
> You're paying about $6 for the CD's, the rest goes for the printed
> matter, packaging, and installation support.
> You'll have to decide if those things are important to you.
>
> Because Linux is continually updated, I don't think it is a good
> idea to buy a new boxed set every 6 months or so, I would rather
> spend my money on a really good programming book, and buy the
> cheap cd sets. Google supplies the docs.
>
> > Shared memory you say? sounds just great!
> > Where can i find docs on using it?
>
> page 466.
> Seriously, don't you think you should just try Linux for a few
> days before you get too deeply involved in what are pretty esoteric
> programming topics? I mean, anything you can do with Windows can be
> done (usually better) with Linux - and was probably being done by
> Unix users when Bill Gates was still riding a trike.
>
> > I see what you mean about downloading, and i want docs with
> > it too.
>
> The minimum useful download is going to be about the size of a single
> CD. If you have a really fast internet connection, you could get this:
> <a
> href="http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk_oc_intro.html">http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk_oc_intro.html</a>
> It's based on Debian, I believe, and is supposed to be super easy to
> install.
>
> Irv
>
39. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Hi Irv,
>
> "Anything that can be done in windows can be done in Linux"
> Ok, that answers most of my questions
> That's all i need to know i guess.
> I guess some things will require a major update to get
> to run in Linux though, right?
>
> Xandros wont be compat with my mainboard
>
> Thanks again Irv...
>
> Take care,
> Al
>
>
> And, good luck with your programming!
>
> My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
>
> irv mullins wrote:
> >
> >
> > Al Getz wrote:
> >
> > > Irv:
> > > Looks like they want $50 for that Discovery 10 thing.
> > > Hmmmm.....it better work good for that cache
> >
> > You're paying about $6 for the CD's, the rest goes for the printed
> > matter, packaging, and installation support.
> > You'll have to decide if those things are important to you.
> >
> > Because Linux is continually updated, I don't think it is a good
> > idea to buy a new boxed set every 6 months or so, I would rather
> > spend my money on a really good programming book, and buy the
> > cheap cd sets. Google supplies the docs.
> >
> > > Shared memory you say? sounds just great!
> > > Where can i find docs on using it?
> >
> > page 466.
> > Seriously, don't you think you should just try Linux for a few
> > days before you get too deeply involved in what are pretty esoteric
> > programming topics? I mean, anything you can do with Windows can be
> > done (usually better) with Linux - and was probably being done by
> > Unix users when Bill Gates was still riding a trike.
> >
> > > I see what you mean about downloading, and i want docs with
> > > it too.
> >
> > The minimum useful download is going to be about the size of a single
> > CD. If you have a really fast internet connection, you could get this:
> > <a
> > href="http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk_oc_intro.html">http://www.xandros.com/products/home/desktopoc/dsk_oc_intro.html</a>
> > It's based on Debian, I believe, and is supposed to be super easy to
> > install.
> >
> > Irv
> >
>
Hi
You must have a really strange / esoteric motherboard - if you don't mind
my asking, what is it, and whats it got on it?
Chris
40. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Hi Irv,
>
> "Anything that can be done in windows can be done in Linux"
> Ok, that answers most of my questions
> That's all i need to know i guess.
> I guess some things will require a major update to get
> to run in Linux though, right?
Some thing will need to be re-written entirely. Others maybe just
change the \\ in file paths to /.
> Xandros wont be compat with my mainboard
What is this strange motherboard, anyway? Must it remain secret, or can
you tell us so we can help you find something compatible?
Irv
41. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hi again Irv,
It's made by Gigabyte, GA-6VXE7+, and it's not on the Xan list.
That's all right?
Video card is Raedon9000.
Does that help?
Take care and thanks,
Al
irv mullins wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> > Hi Irv,
> >
> > "Anything that can be done in windows can be done in Linux"
> > Ok, that answers most of my questions
> > That's all i need to know i guess.
> > I guess some things will require a major update to get
> > to run in Linux though, right?
>
> Some thing will need to be re-written entirely. Others maybe just
> change the \\ in file paths to /.
>
> > Xandros wont be compat with my mainboard
>
> What is this strange motherboard, anyway? Must it remain secret, or can
> you tell us so we can help you find something compatible?
>
> Irv
>
And, good luck with your programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
42. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al,
Here is a link to the Mandrake main page:
http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en-us/
>From there you can subscribe to email support list
where it is likely that you will find answers
to your numerous hardware specific inquiries.
There you will also find a hardware compatability database.
You can also download Mandrake Move from there
which might very well be the quickest and most
thorough way to find out for sure if Mandrake
will work with your system.
Good Luck :)
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Hi again Irv,
>
> It's made by Gigabyte, GA-6VXE7+, and it's not on the Xan list.
> That's all right?
> Video card is Raedon9000.
> Does that help?
>
>
> Take care and thanks,
> Al
>
> irv mullins wrote:
> >
> > Al Getz wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Irv,
> > >
> > > "Anything that can be done in windows can be done in Linux"
> > > Ok, that answers most of my questions
> > > That's all i need to know i guess.
> > > I guess some things will require a major update to get
> > > to run in Linux though, right?
> >
> > Some thing will need to be re-written entirely. Others maybe just
> > change the \\ in file paths to /.
> >
> > > Xandros wont be compat with my mainboard
> >
> > What is this strange motherboard, anyway? Must it remain secret, or can
> > you tell us so we can help you find something compatible?
> >
> > Irv
> >
>
> And, good luck with your programming!
>
> My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
>
Ken Rhodes
100% Microsoft Free!
43. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Hi again Irv,
>
> It's made by Gigabyte, GA-6VXE7+, and it's not on the Xan list.
> That's all right?
> Video card is Raedon9000.
> Does that help?
>
Yes, it does. Here's a guy who's managed to install 37 operating
systems on that one MB:
http://www.maximumpc.com/features/feature_2002-09-24.html
Exerpt from his list:
FreeBSD
OpenBSD
NetBSD
Storm 2000
Immunix
Conectiva
Libranet
Vector
JBLinux
Slackware
Trustix
Red Hat 7.2
Mandrake 8.2
Debian
Irv
44. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hi again Irv and Ken,
Ken:
Thanks for the tip, too bad it's such a large
download though...would take two hours
Might be interesting though...
Maybe you know what 'iso' extension is and
how to use it?
Irv:
Wow interesting, especially Redhat, who's hardware
list the MB isnt on either! I guess they need to
update there hardware lists? Pretty amazing
Oh, BTW, the download for some of the Mandrake
stuff has extension ".iso" what the heck is that
and what do you do with it?
Thanks much,,,dont know how you found that site
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
45. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
"iso's" are cd images... you download them and then
burn'em on CD's.
In two hours plus the time it takes to burn your cd
and then a few mins boot time the the operating
system of your dreams could be running on your
computer!
Don't ask any more questions Al, just download
Knoppix or Mandrake Move and go for it!
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Hi again Irv and Ken,
>
> Ken:
> Thanks for the tip, too bad it's such a large
> download though...would take two hours
> Might be interesting though...
> Maybe you know what 'iso' extension is and
> how to use it?
>
Ken Rhodes
100% Microsoft Free!
46. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Hi again Irv and Ken,
>
> Ken:
> Thanks for the tip, too bad it's such a large
> download though...would take two hours
> Might be interesting though...
> Maybe you know what 'iso' extension is and
> how to use it?
Egad.
If you don't know what iso is, then you most certainly do not
want to be trying to download Linux. Buy a set of CD's from
someone who knows how to burn them.
Basically, an ISO is just one big file which contains the image of
a CD. You have to create your own CD from that, burning it as a
disk image, NOT as a big file. It's not difficult, but if you
have to ask... well, it's just one more place for problems to
crop up.
> Thanks much,,,dont know how you found that site
Google is your friend!
By the way, you can most likely use your ATI Radeon 9000 with
linux, seeing as how they have Linux drivers on their download
page: http://ati.com/support/driver.html
But you shouldn't have to download them, they will probably be
on any recent Linux CD.
Speaking of which, if you had sent your $8.99 to Cheapbytes.com on
Monday, you would certainly be running Linux by now :)
They are quick and reliable.
Irv
47. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Greetings Al!
Sorry I haven't had an opportunity to respond to any of your posts, but it
appears that you are getting plenty of help nevertheless! (And hello to
everyone else to that I haven't said "hi" to in a while.)
Just wanted to tell you to feel free to email me privately if you have any
questions as well at. Since I've just gotten things going again, I'm not
sure if my email will appear in this post to the forum ... if it doesn't I'll
send another message with that in there. Yeah .. been one heck of a month.
At any rate, my machine is running dual boot Windows XP and Mandrake 10.0.
The fact that it has Windows on it is due to necessity, not desire, I can
assure you of that.
Travis.
On Saturday 12 June 2004 01:49 pm, irv mullins wrote:
>
>
> posted by: irv mullins <irvm at ellijay.com>
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> > Hi again Irv and Ken,
> >
> > Ken:
> > Thanks for the tip, too bad it's such a large
> > download though...would take two hours
> > Might be interesting though...
> > Maybe you know what 'iso' extension is and
> > how to use it?
>
> Egad.
> If you don't know what iso is, then you most certainly do not
> want to be trying to download Linux. Buy a set of CD's from
> someone who knows how to burn them.
>
> Basically, an ISO is just one big file which contains the image of
> a CD. You have to create your own CD from that, burning it as a
> disk image, NOT as a big file. It's not difficult, but if you
> have to ask... well, it's just one more place for problems to
> crop up.
>
> > Thanks much,,,dont know how you found that site
>
> Google is your friend!
>
> By the way, you can most likely use your ATI Radeon 9000 with
> linux, seeing as how they have Linux drivers on their download
> page: http://ati.com/support/driver.html
>
> But you shouldn't have to download them, they will probably be
> on any recent Linux CD.
>
> Speaking of which, if you had sent your $8.99 to Cheapbytes.com on
> Monday, you would certainly be running Linux by now :)
> They are quick and reliable.
>
> Irv
>
>
>
48. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
>From: Al Getz <guest at RapidEuphoria.com>
>Reply-To: EUforum at topica.com
>To: EUforum at topica.com
>Subject: Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:11:30 -0700
>
>posted by: Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
>
>Hello again,
>
>Irv:
>Looks like they want $50 for that Discovery 10 thing.
>Hmmmm.....it better work good for that cache
>Shared memory you say? sounds just great!
>Where can i find docs on using it?
>I see what you mean about downloading, and i want docs with
>it too.
>
Check this out:
http://www.rapideuphoria.com/cgi-bin/asearch.exu?win=on&lnx=on&keywords=memshare
There's the Windows version by Mario and Jason, and the Linux port by me.
They should work exactly the same on both platforms, so you can try it on
Windows right now before you switch.
>Thanks again to all of you!
>
>Take care,
>Al
>
>Good luck with your programming!
>
~[ WingZone ]~
http://wingzone.tripod.com/
49. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hello again,
Ken:
Ok, been there, done that...
(ok i couldnt have said that 4 hours ago
I remembered what .iso was after all, burnt one up,
booted to the MandrakeMove version.
Pretty neat, i have to say! Sort of like a
scaled down windows or something, but i had a problem
i couldnt resolve...the modem wasnt detected.
Everything else showed up in the config manager,
but the modem wouldnt mode
Even detected the Net card, so maybe i'll look into
how to set up the pppoet thing. Any ideas appreciated.
Yeah it was 2 hours download, about 4 mins burn, and
surprisingly about 2 mins later i had a linux desktop!
Irv:
Yeah, iso, it's been a while for me since i looked
into things like this
The ATI card seems to be working up to 24 bit color,
which is probably good enough unless i see a drop
in performance which ill have to double check.
I didnt notice anything so it's probably all right.
Cheapbytes is sounding better and better, as im
not wanting to shell out 50 until i know for sure
i can get everything going, and i probably wont
need a manual -- it was much much simpler then i
ever thought. Im counting my change now...
I see linux works with jpegs too, which is a
very good thing.
Any ideas how to get the modem to work?
Travis:
Thanks for the offer, i'll probably need to take you
up on that What kind of Linux are you running?
List of results/problems so far:
1. Couldnt figure out how to read the FAT32 hard drive.
Only the virtual drive showed up on menues.
Wanted to save a test text file to hard disk and
couldnt because it doesnt see them or something.
Four 'DOS' hard drive partitions show up as
one drive "dev/something" in the config thing.
2. Couldnt find any development tools on the cd, maybe
they are in the full cd set? I heard lots of stuff
like that comes with linux distro's.
3. Couldnt find more then one desktop style, i thought
there were something like four including GNome?
4. Cant download Euphoria for linux until i get int connect.
Cant download under win and transfer under linux because
cant find hard drive paths in menues/file manager.
Overall opinion thus far:
1. Very interesting what you can download for free these days
If more people knew, im sure they would give it a try.
2. Looks like a scaled down version of windows, or something
very much like it. I have to wonder what would happen
if Linux took off a bit more giving MS more competition...
Would MS try to sue based on how similar the systems are?
I had the feeling all the graphics were somewhat 'flatter'
and less colorful then win, although i couldnt get more
then one desktop style, and i think the 'MOVE' version
is based on 9.2, not 10.0, if that matters.
3. Too interesting to ignore.
4. CD Move version takes longer to load programs i hope,
because startup of most program apps was noticeably slow.
I would expect disk version to be much much faster.
5. Couldnt do any performance measurements (yet).
Thanks again for all the ideas and help!
This looks like something i'd like to eventually
have loaded on the computer permanently.
I really need a way to swap files with FAT32
one way or another under linux.
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
50. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
On Saturday 12 June 2004 06:22 pm, Al Getz wrote:
> Travis:
> Thanks for the offer, i'll probably need to take you
> up on that What kind of Linux are you running?
Mandrake 10.0 Community Edition. My window manager of choice is KDE.
>
>
> List of results/problems so far:
>
> 1. Couldnt figure out how to read the FAT32 hard drive.
> Only the virtual drive showed up on menues.
> Wanted to save a test text file to hard disk and
> couldnt because it doesnt see them or something.
> Four 'DOS' hard drive partitions show up as
> one drive "dev/something" in the config thing.
> 2. Couldnt find any development tools on the cd, maybe
> they are in the full cd set? I heard lots of stuff
> like that comes with linux distro's.
In Linux, the development tools are so much an integral part of the system,
you may have them without realize it. I've heard that Lindows doesn't have
them by default, and I know that the Damn Small Linux distribution doesn't
have them. But the rest of them, ifaik, has them.
Pop open a terminal, type gcc --version, and see what happens.
> 3. Couldnt find more then one desktop style, i thought
> there were something like four including GNome?
There are a number of windows managers. My favorite is KDE. There is also
Gnome, IceWM, Enlightenment, WindowMaker, and about six jazillion
others. Usually, when you log in, you can choose which particular one
you want to run if you have more than one installed. Most people do have
more than one windows manager ... I like KDE, so it is the only one that I
have installed on my system.
> 4. Cant download Euphoria for linux until i get int connect.
> Cant download under win and transfer under linux because
> cant find hard drive paths in menues/file manager.
Okay ... this might have been answered, but did you try /mnt/windows? Linux
does not use drive letters such as C: or D:. Everything is a directory.
For instance, to get to my Windows partition in Linux, I go to /mnt/windows.
I find the floppy, /mnt/floppy.
Travis.
51. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al,
What type of modem do you have? I kept dual booting Mandrake 9.2
and windows until the drivers for my Alcatel SpeedTouch modem improved
to the point that I could get them to work. Also, BellSouth was no
help at all. The tech advisor told me that BellSouth does not support
dual booting and they had noted that I was using Linux on my "permanent
record". I thought I was going to get a spanking for not using "pure"
Windows.
Also, I urge you to be very careful about acessing your Windows partition
from Linux. I think its best to archive the files you want to use in
Linux on a CD or zip drive and then install them on your Linux partition.
The Mandrake Move CD is probably good to give you an idea of what Linux
is like, but downloading the Community edition and installing a Linux
partition is without doubt the way to go.
Hang in there!
Ken Rhodes
100% Microsoft Free!
53. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
....
> i probably wont
> need a manual -- it was much much simpler then i
> ever thought. Im counting my change now...
> I see linux works with jpegs too, which is a
> very good thing.
> Any ideas how to get the modem to work?
Probably. Can you tell us the make and model number?
Of course, if you have what is called a "WinModem", then
perhaps not, because those aren't real modems. If you are
unfortunate enough to have one of those, then just replace it
with a real one. It will work with Linux, and will work faster
with Windows. When using a WinModem, the CPU spends a lot of
time just tweedling bits up and down to create tones to send
down the phone line.
> List of results/problems so far:
>
> 1. Couldnt figure out how to read the FAT32 hard drive.
> Only the virtual drive showed up on menues.
> Wanted to save a test text file to hard disk and
> couldnt because it doesnt see them or something.
> Four 'DOS' hard drive partitions show up as
> one drive "dev/something" in the config thing.
You're making this too difficult. It's already there, I'm
pretty sure, but let's add a nice icon on the desktop so
you can get there easily:
If you're using KDE (and you certainly should be), just right
click on the desktop, choose Create New/Device/Hard Disk Device,
let go the mouse button, and from the dialog, choose the devie
tab and from the drop-down list, select mnt/windows.
That creates an icon which opens the Windows drive.
> 2. Couldnt find any development tools on the cd, maybe
> they are in the full cd set? I heard lots of stuff
> like that comes with linux distro's.
There are generally 3 to 6 CD's in a full Linux distro.
That much stuff is (as you mentioned) a LOT to download.
No doubt the MandrakeMove is stripped down to just enough
to give people a taste of Linux.
You could, if you were a glutton for punishment, download all the
development tools (and games, and...) that you want. They are all
free, but I wouldn't bother unless your time is worth nothing.
> 3. Couldnt find more then one desktop style, i thought
> there were something like four including GNome?
See above.
> 4. Cant download Euphoria for linux until i get int connect.
> Cant download under win and transfer under linux because
> cant find hard drive paths in menues/file manager.
See above. Or, click on the "home" icon on your desktop, then
hit the up button twice. Then select the "mnt" icon, then "windows"
icon. You should be there.
> Overall opinion thus far:
> 1. Very interesting what you can download for free these days
> If more people knew, im sure they would give it a try.
> 2. Looks like a scaled down version of windows, or something
> very much like it. I have to wonder what would happen
> if Linux took off a bit more giving MS more competition...
> Would MS try to sue based on how similar the systems are?
> I had the feeling all the graphics were somewhat 'flatter'
> and less colorful then win, although i couldnt get more
> then one desktop style, and i think the 'MOVE' version
> is based on 9.2, not 10.0, if that matters.
Except that it is a scaled UP version of Windows. You'll find that
out after you use it a while. There are literally hundreds of
desktop themes available to make it as flashy as you want. Probably
don't get those with the Move version (for space reasons, again).
Even 9.1 and earlier versions had themes, etc.
10.0 is a bit faster, and supports more newer hardware.
> 3. Too interesting to ignore.
> 4. CD Move version takes longer to load programs i hope,
> because startup of most program apps was noticeably slow.
> I would expect disk version to be much much faster.
Yes. That's one reason I hesitate to recommend Knoppix or Move to
people who might not realize that fact.
> 5. Couldnt do any performance measurements (yet).
No major difference, if all you're doing is timing one program.
The benefit you get with Linux is that you can be running as
many programs as you want, and still get good performance.
Regards,
Irv
54. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Kenneth Rhodes wrote:
>
> Al,
>
> What type of modem do you have? I kept dual booting Mandrake 9.2
> and windows until the drivers for my Alcatel SpeedTouch modem improved
> to the point that I could get them to work. Also, BellSouth was no
> help at all. The tech advisor told me that BellSouth does not support
> dual booting and they had noted that I was using Linux on my "permanent
> record". I thought I was going to get a spanking for not using "pure"
> Windows.
Yea. Generally, if you are persistent, you can get bumped up the chain
of command until you get to talk to someone at the ISP who actually
knows something. Most likely, the people who actually keep things
running know and use Linux. The so-called "help desk" people - Ha! -
are usually just reading from a script, and probably wouldn't be allowed
to tell you if by some chance they DID know the answer.
Irv
55. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
> The modem is "SupraMax 56i PCI".
I think you are SOL. Here's two ways to find out:
1. Open the case and look at the modem. Does it consist of a tiny
board (bout the size of a zippo lighter) with a couple of capacitors
and one or two resistors? If so, could you build a modem using
a couple of capacitors and a resistor?
Didn't think so. And neither could they. They built a filter, and
sold it to you as a modem.
2. Look up the price on the internet. Anything which sells for less than
about $60 isn't a modem. SupraMax 56i PCI is advertised for $27.95.
See here: http://linmodems.org/
Now, all is not lost. Last Saturday I went to a "hamfest" (swapmeet)
and picked up a perfectly good 56k external (real) brandname modem for $3.
It works fine, I'm using it to send this message. There are lots of
them available now because so many people are switching to DSL.
Regards,
Irv
56. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hi again Irv,
>Actually, 1. Open the case and look at the modem. Does it consist of a tiny
>board (bout the size of a zippo lighter) with a couple of capacitors
>and one or two resistors? If so, could you build a modem using
>a couple of capacitors and a resistor?
It's not impossible, im no stranger to Fourier Theory nor
sampled data theory in general with digital signal processing.
I've actually designed and built a three chip three line short distance
high speed modem in my time Ok, maybe four chips, but they were
all commonly available parts, not an LSI chipset.
I wouldnt want to allocate the processor time for something like
that though just because im downloading something
In any case, im pretty sure this isnt a winmodem because there's too
many LSI chips on board. Also, the name 'winmodem' isnt a good choice,
of words, because some people call some modems winmodem just because
they dont work with anything other then windows. The usual class of
winmodems i could see working with any op sys, with the proper software
driver. It must be then that Linux doesnt have many drivers for this
kind of modem (the 'filter' modem).
Maybe i should try to get the Network card going first. I'll call
my isp this week to find out if they support Linux. Did you say
you had gotten some software for pppoet or something?
I guess last resort i'll have to pick up another modem too.
I hate to do this especially since i dont use a regular modem anymore.
I'll try your suggestions with the system (drive access) and see what
happens.
Thanks much for your ideas and suggestions, they have been very helpful!
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
57. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
The main problem with "winmodems" (aside from them eating CPU time)
is that the code for them is proprietary.
If your modem has a Lucent chipset, you may be in luck.
Look here:
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~mert1313/ltmodem.html
It is a free (as in no money) driver.
Al, I thought you had DSL service? Roaring Penguin's PPP-Over-Ethernet
client should get you online in a matter of minutes. And it is free.
http://www.roaringpenguin.com/products/rp-pppoe/index.php
58. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hello again Evan,
Oh ok so you were the one who mentioned that
Thanks much, i'll check it out.
If i can use the Net card i wont need the modem.
A LITTLE LATER:
It looks like the PPPoet thing wont work with Mandrake
however, but needs a source rebuild. Do you think
the mandrake 'move' version has the ability to rebuild
this? I'd like to try it.
And, good luck with your programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
59. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
> In any case, im pretty sure this isnt a winmodem because there's too
> many LSI chips on board. Also, the name 'winmodem' isnt a good choice,
> of words, because some people call some modems winmodem just because
> they dont work with anything other then windows. The usual class of
> winmodems i could see working with any op sys, with the proper software
> driver. It must be then that Linux doesnt have many drivers for this
> kind of modem (the 'filter' modem).
"Winmodem" is a trademark, owned by 3Com/USR. 3Com's "Winmodems" (tm)
most of them, at least, do have a DSP chip or two, which does part of the
work.
Neverthless, "winmodem" is used generically to refer to anything which
utilizes the computer's CPU to do some or all of the work that was traditionally
done by actual modem hardware. Taken to the extreme, a couple pieces of copper
wire
could be called a "winmodem", if they were hooked to a computer which was
able to separate the tones from the line noise.
Linux indeed doesn't have drivers for some of these, for several
reasons. One is that Microsoft strongly discourages manufacturers from
releasing drivers or specs for these. If only Windows can use these
cheap "modems", then that means that a computer running Windows can sell
for <> $50 cheaper than if it were running another OS.
Another is that a lot of Linux users are more technically inclined than
yer average Windows user, so they realize the benefits of having an actual
hardware modem. There's little incentive to write software to operate what
they consider to be a toy.
> Maybe i should try to get the Network card going first. I'll call
> my isp this week to find out if they support Linux. Did you say
> you had gotten some software for pppoet or something?
There's PPOE, I believe, but I can't get DSL or cable here, so I
can't help with that. As for your ISP, see my previous post about
"support" :)
Irv
60. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Hello again Evan,
>
> Oh ok so you were the one who mentioned that
> Thanks much, i'll check it out.
> If i can use the Net card i wont need the modem.
>
> A LITTLE LATER:
> It looks like the PPPoet thing wont work with Mandrake
> however, but needs a source rebuild. Do you think
> the mandrake 'move' version has the ability to rebuild
> this? I'd like to try it.
Undoubtedly no. That would require the source code to the Linux
kernel, and I don't think they would have put that on the "Move"
CD. Few people would use it, and it would take up a lot of space.
With a full install set, you would get the precompiled version
anyway.
Irv
61. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hi
this forum is so damned quick, probably been answered by now.
Its a win modem - PIA - get an external modem, and all will be fine.
As to the suggestion that xwindows and all the windowing system on top
is a 'cut down' version of windows - cough splut splutter splut - NOOOOO -
its a an far more advanced windowing system that works for much longer
than ANY MS windows incarnation I've come across.
Keep playing.
Chris
62. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hello again, Al.
>Irv Mullins wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>Undoubtedly no. That would require the source code to the Linux
>kernel, and I don't think they would have put that on the "Move"
>CD. Few people would use it, and it would take up a lot of space.
>With a full install set, you would get the precompiled version
>anyway.
>
>Irv
>
I'd second what Irv is saying here, although it seems to me that the
Linux source code is a little more widely used than Irv believes. I
have the sources for the 2.6 kernel on my system, and it comes in at
just a little over 200 M. I needed them to compile a driver for my
particular Winmodem, which has a Lucent chipset.
I've been using this Winmodem since I got started in Linux, and after a
bit of compiling, configuration file editing, and module loading, she
works ... er ... *okay.* That having been said, I don't do online
gaming or the such either. I haven't bothered to get a "real" modem yet
because I'm hoping within the year to get cable Internet again. If that
doesn't turn out to be the case, I'll be in the market for an external
modem, perhaps one with quantum chips and chronometrical correction
tools, so I don't keep getting answers to this forum before I get the
questions.
This, however, might prove to be prohibitively costly.
One other thing: based upon your questions, I would also recommend that
you steer away from Knoppix and other one-disk wonders, at least for the
time being. Setting those up to run right can take a guru at times. I
have a little distribution called Damn Small Linux
(http://www.damnsmalllinux.org) which is only 50M. Like Knoppix
(actually, from what I understand it is a severely stripped Knoppix), it
runs entirely from CD. It does have a window manager (Blackbox), but
can be rough to get around in without some experience.
As many others here have suggested, I'd stay with one of the major
distros. Personally, I believe that Mandrake is the best of the major
distributions for new users, although it should be mentioned that *my*
first taste of Linux was Mandrake, so I'm a little biased. It goes
really easy on new users, although with a root password, you can totally
bork the system (trust me, I've been there ). If you want, I can
copy my Mandrake 10.0 CD's and pass them on to you.
As this thread is getting way off topic from "Euphoria," perhaps you
could send me an email privately, or CC it to all the interested
parties, that way all the Windoze users don't get jealous.
(That was a joke, folks.)
Travis.
63. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Travis Beaty wrote:
> As this thread is getting way off topic from "Euphoria," perhaps you
> could send me an email privately, or CC it to all the interested
> parties, that way all the Windoze users don't get jealous.
After all this discussion, I was beginning to wonder if there
was anyone here still using Windows :)
Irv
64. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
AL!!!,
I just downloaded and burned the MandrakeMove .iso.
rp-pppoe is included in the distro!!
type /usr/sbin/adsl-setup
Enter you username and password and set ETH='eth0' when asked. Accept the
defaults for everything else.
Type adsl-start. You should see a row of '.'s appear as the connection
is being established, then the message "Connected!"
Open your browser and enjoy!
65. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Evan Marshall wrote:
>
> AL!!!,
>
> I just downloaded and burned the MandrakeMove .iso.
>
> rp-pppoe is included in the distro!!
>
> type /usr/sbin/adsl-setup
>
> Enter you username and password and set ETH='eth0' when asked. Accept the
> defaults for everything else.
>
> Type adsl-start. You should see a row of '.'s appear as the connection
> is being established, then the message "Connected!"
>
> Open your browser and enjoy!
>
Well, first you have to open a terminal window and type su to log on as
root.
I don't have Mandrake running right now (I don't have my password cookie
saved there so I had to log onto Windows and post from here). To open a
terminal window, click on the icon in the bottom left hand corner. Click
on the topmost selection (don't remember what it is called, "Applications",
maybe?). Click on terminal (near the bottom of this drop-down, I think).
66. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Hello again,
Im happy to announce i had my first Linux internet connection
yesterday through the Net card/dsl modem! I would be posting
this from Linux (yesterday) but i forgot my password and it
was stored on the Win machine
(as well as my spell checker)
As Evan has pointed out,
the PPPoet is included in the Move download, and it didnt
need rebuilding as per other instructions i read elsewhere.
All i needed to do was to have the modem turned on and sync'd
with the line and it detected and asked a bunch of questions
one of them being "do you use pppoet" and i answered yes and
it connected after about a 60 second delay. I suspect that
would be a one time delay if it was hard drive installed.
Thanks for all the ideas from everyone here!
Soon i'll be Euphoria'ing again only in Linux for a change
OH yeah also, a friend picked up an AMD 64 bit 160GB system yesterday
(came with XP Home Ed. <chuckles>)
and after we got it booted up and configured, we tried Linux move,
and guess what? It worked fine! Even detected the more recent
GForce Graphics card, and it read the NTFS partition fine!
We tried a DVD movie and it worked pretty well, with more adjustments
then in windows!
Linux is looking pretty amazing at this point.
Irv:
I see what you mean about the three classes of modems. It's
been so long since i had to look at this stuff now (spoiled
with windows).
You were right about finding the hard drives being much easier
then i was making it sound--but the problem was i read the docs
and they all seemed to say that the hard drives were starting with
'dev' so i looked under dev in the filemanager and didnt find them.
Then i looked under 'mnt' (i think you said something about this)
and that's when i finally found them all, every partition neatly
arranged as i had hoped! I'm happy to say that little by little
it's working out with this system. I hope i can start using
if for some useful things soon.
Also, yesterday i picked up one of those little
USB 'Jump Drives' so that maybe i could store my settings from
Linux Move on it so i dont have to reset everything when i bootup
to Linux Move each time. It's a slow little thing but it works
Dont know if you ever tried this or not...
Thanks again for the information and advice...im getting there
little by little because of that!
p.s. Is there a file decompressor for the Eu GTK wrapper on Linux Move
you think? I'll have to start looking into this stuff next.
Evan:
Yes i found it (PPP) and it seems to work without a rebuild too!
Nice...
Thanks a lot for the info!
Chris:
Im starting to get more familiar with it now so im seeing things
i didnt see right off, like the ability to read so many file
formats!
Travis:
Hee hee hee, im almost jealous myself and i have friggin
three windows versions! Yea, bad news really comes in three's
I have to give windows a little credit, but mainly for...um,
hmmmm, ...there must be something...?
Copy the Mandrake10 cd's? How much do you want for doing this?
That would be great but i dont want you to have to go
through too much trouble either. If it's fast maybe ok.
It looks like i'll be sticking with Mandrake also, because i
believe it is most compatible with my system.
I'll try to get an email off to you today sometime...thanks!
Well, take care and thanks much for the info and ideas from
all of you. I'll still have a few more questions of course,
but mainly with regard to using Euphoria on Linux, which is
next on my list. Right now i have no idea how to get Euphoria
going on linux but i bet it wont be hard. If someone
wants to post a list of most important file extensions and
brief explanation that would get me started.
bfn,
Al
And, good luck with your programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
67. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Al Getz wrote:
....
> Well, take care and thanks much for the info and ideas from
> all of you. I'll still have a few more questions of course,
> but mainly with regard to using Euphoria on Linux, which is
> next on my list. Right now i have no idea how to get Euphoria
> going on linux but i bet it wont be hard. If someone
> wants to post a list of most important file extensions and
> brief explanation that would get me started.
Download the Linux version from rapideuphori.com - note: the directions
on the download page say to "right click and save target as...", but
that doesn't work for me. Instead, just left click, and in the dialog
which pops up, choose "save to disk" (in your home directory or onto
the desktop, your choice)
Once that's finished, navigate to your home directory (or the desktop)
and look for a file named euphori24.tar. You can left click on that
and browse thru it (and the same with zipped archives) without having
to download a program. In Windows, you would have to get WinZip or something)
If you left click, you should have an option to open the file with Ark.
Do that, then choose "action/extract" from the menu, and select your
home directory as the destination. That will look something like:
file:/home/al/ (or whatever your user name is).
Ark will put everything in the right places.
Then follow Rob's instructions to edit your .bash_profile file.
That file works like autoexec.bat.
Note that .bash_profile is a hidden file, you won't see it if you do
a dir or ls. Just choose an editor from the menu (kwrite, for example)
and open .bash_profile. Either type .bash_profile in the "location" box,
or choose "configuration/show hidden files" from the menu, and browse
for it.
You'll see lines like:
PATH=$PATH:$HOME/bin
export PATH
Just add a couple more before the "export PATH" line:
PATH=$PATH:$HOME/euphoria/bin
export EUDIR
Then log out, and back in. It is not necessary to reboot.
That will make the changes in your .bash_profile take effect.
You should then be ready to go.
Regards,
Irv
68. Re: Upgrading from XP to Linux
Thanks Irv.
Im almost ready to try this.
Im also going to see if this linux version will save settings
to the little jump drive. That will be nice too. If not,
i'll still be trying the Euphoria Linux.
Thanks for all the help/ideas/suggestions!
I was thinking, maybe my first Euphoria on Linux program could
be something simple, like
"Goodbye Windows"
Ha, ha, ha, etc.
Take care for now,
Al
irv mullins wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> ....
> > Well, take care and thanks much for the info and ideas from
> > all of you. I'll still have a few more questions of course,
> > but mainly with regard to using Euphoria on Linux, which is
> > next on my list. Right now i have no idea how to get Euphoria
> > going on linux but i bet it wont be hard. If someone
> > wants to post a list of most important file extensions and
> > brief explanation that would get me started.
>
> Download the Linux version from rapideuphori.com - note: the directions
> on the download page say to "right click and save target as...", but
> that doesn't work for me. Instead, just left click, and in the dialog
> which pops up, choose "save to disk" (in your home directory or onto
> the desktop, your choice)
>
> Once that's finished, navigate to your home directory (or the desktop)
> and look for a file named euphori24.tar. You can left click on that
> and browse thru it (and the same with zipped archives) without having
> to download a program. In Windows, you would have to get WinZip or something)
>
> If you left click, you should have an option to open the file with Ark.
> Do that, then choose "action/extract" from the menu, and select your
> home directory as the destination. That will look something like:
> file:/home/al/ (or whatever your user name is).
>
> Ark will put everything in the right places.
> Then follow Rob's instructions to edit your .bash_profile file.
> That file works like autoexec.bat.
>
> Note that .bash_profile is a hidden file, you won't see it if you do
> a dir or ls. Just choose an editor from the menu (kwrite, for example)
> and open .bash_profile. Either type .bash_profile in the "location" box,
> or choose "configuration/show hidden files" from the menu, and browse
> for it.
>
> You'll see lines like:
>
> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/bin
> export PATH
>
> Just add a couple more before the "export PATH" line:
>
> PATH=$PATH:$HOME/euphoria/bin
> export EUDIR
>
> Then log out, and back in. It is not necessary to reboot.
> That will make the changes in your .bash_profile take effect.
> You should then be ready to go.
>
> Regards,
> Irv
>
And, good luck with your programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
