1. Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
Yes, I know about such things..
But what happens when you shut down the prog? Where's the remembered
intelligence? Would have to be stored in a readable file. Can't be
incorporated directly into the app..
I think you forget, the topic of my discussion was the ability to
develop a program that can modify itself so as to not allow anyone to
tamper with the LEARNED intelligence of the AI..
Chris
Matthew Lewis wrote:
>
> > From: Chris Bensler
>
> > I'm not talking about a pet project here, or scientific experiments
> > that utilize 1000's of hours of computer time to evolve some code to
> > determine the personality traits of one person..
> >
> > I'm talking about, high speed graphics based games utilizing AI bots
> > that can learn and evolve from the opponents it defeates and loses
> > against..
>
> I can't imagine why you couldn't do this. There's a contest out there
> (I
> think it runs every year) involving Rock-Paper-Scissors. The code is
> written in C, and there are severe limits to the number of lines of code
> allowed (I think it's less than 200). The winners tend to be the ones
> that
> are able to learn from an opponent's actions.
>
> As David mentioned, you could use a genetic algorithm (some people have
> actually written some GA code in Eu) or a number of other AI techniques,
> like a neural net. I'm not saying any of this is easy, but I suspect
> that
> the implementation would probably be easier in Eu than in most other
> languages. It's really a matter of your AI knowledge, IMHO.
>
> Matt Lewis
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2. Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
> But what happens when you shut down the prog? Where's the remembered
> intelligence? Would have to be stored in a readable file. Can't be
> incorporated directly into the app..
With Euphoria you can save and get any
variable from file with EDS database.
That's one of the best features of Euphoria
and it's sequences.
I have a great idea for AI game:
It would be 3d game like Quake.
Your man would walk by himself around and
remember people's faces he met and palces he's been.
When he would come to a man with a gun,
he would remember him that he is bad
(because he shoots him) and would hide next time he sees him.
Or when he would come to a dangerous place,
he would have to somehow figure out that there's dangerous
(by experiencing what's bad at that place)
and remember it to avoid it in the future.
I would first have to try to write different components for AI
(character recognition, etc) and then use it in game.
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3. Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
Chris,
You can't carry water in magazines because magazines have *holes* in them.
An AI should *know* that via properties (of the magazine).
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Bensler" <bensler at mailops.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:14 AM
Subject: RE: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
> > Agreed. But, what I'm saying is that there should be an existing way
> > for
> > players to ally, as opposed to the AI creating that option, and changing
> > the
> > behavior of the game to allow for alliances.
>
> But this is what I want to be able to do! You can't sell something that
> isn't revolutionary in some way! :)
>
>
> > Yep. But the interaction is limited to the rules of the game.
>
> Who says I WANT to implement rules? I want the concept to be as open as
> possible..
>
>
> > a player, itself or another AI. However, it probably wouldn't be
> > possible
> > to use the weapon for purposes other than those which already exist.
> > Like
> > suddenly it's able to use an empty magazine to carry water, or
> > something.
>
> Why not!!? That's what would make the game superior to others!!
>
> Chris
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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4. Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
Kat writes:
> Say, Robert,, what if "include" wasn't a top level statement,
> what if we could put the "include" statement in the program
> flow in a procedure or function, like in a loop or in a
> windows event?
That would be insane.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
5. Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
--- Robert Craig <rds at RapidEuphoria.com> wrote:
> Kat writes:
> > Say, Robert,, what if "include" wasn't a top
> level statement,
> > what if we could put the "include" statement in
> the program
> > flow in a procedure or function, like in a loop or
> in a
> > windows event?
>
> That would be insane.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
>
LOL@Rob!
Mike The Spike
6. Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
On 2 Feb 2001, at 10:00, Robert Craig wrote:
> Kat writes:
> > Say, Robert,, what if "include" wasn't a top level statement,
> > what if we could put the "include" statement in the program
> > flow in a procedure or function, like in a loop or in a
> > windows event?
>
> That would be insane.
Depends on the definition, but i guess that will teach me to not sign onto any
more
good ideas other people want too.
Kat
7. Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Craig" <rds at RapidEuphoria.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
> Kat writes:
> > Say, Robert,, what if "include" wasn't a top level statement,
> > what if we could put the "include" statement in the program
> > flow in a procedure or function, like in a loop or in a
> > windows event?
>
> That would be insane.
BZZZZZT! Wrong answer. I'm afraid you haven't won the $64,000 this time
Robert.
------
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
(Vote [1] The Cheshire Cat for Internet Mascot)
8. Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
--- Derek Parnell <ddparnell at bigpond.com> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Craig" <rds at RapidEuphoria.com>
> To: <EUforum at topica.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 5:00 AM
> Subject: Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let
> me try once more)
>
>
> > Kat writes:
> > > Say, Robert,, what if "include" wasn't a top
> level statement,
> > > what if we could put the "include" statement in
> the program
> > > flow in a procedure or function, like in a loop
> or in a
> > > windows event?
> >
> > That would be insane.
>
> BZZZZZT! Wrong answer. I'm afraid you haven't won
> the $64,000 this time
> Robert.
BZZZZZT! Good awnser. I'm afraid Robert is right.
Derek.
Including an include file in a damned loop?
What are you, on crack?
for i = 1 to 10000 do
include get.e
end for
Just tell me what impact this would have, other than
destroying all Interpreter Vs. Translator
compatibility?
How is a bound program gonna include files
dynamically?
The absolute MAXIMUM of what Kat suggests is the
following (very usefull) code;
if myos = WIN32 then
include win32lib.ew
else
include dos32lib.e
end if
Just like in C.
The binder supports it, the translator supprts it, and
everyone is happy.
Dynamic Interpretation like run("for ix = 1 to 10 do
end for") is a better, portable way to do what Kat
suggests.
Mike The Spike
> ------
> Derek Parnell
> Melbourne, Australia
> (Vote [1] The Cheshire Cat for Internet Mascot)
>
>
>
>
9. Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
On 2 Feb 2001, at 12:13, Mike The Spike wrote:
>
> --- Derek Parnell <ddparnell at bigpond.com> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Craig" <rds at RapidEuphoria.com>
> > To: <EUforum at topica.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 5:00 AM
> > Subject: Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let
> > me try once more)
> >
> >
> > > Kat writes:
> > > > Say, Robert,, what if "include" wasn't a top
> > level statement,
> > > > what if we could put the "include" statement in
> > the program
> > > > flow in a procedure or function, like in a loop
> > or in a
> > > > windows event?
> > >
> > > That would be insane.
> >
> > BZZZZZT! Wrong answer. I'm afraid you haven't won
> > the $64,000 this time
> > Robert.
>
> BZZZZZT! Good awnser. I'm afraid Robert is right.
> Derek.
>
> Including an include file in a damned loop?
> What are you, on crack?
<snip>
> Dynamic Interpretation like run("for ix = 1 to 10 do
> end for") is a better, portable way to do what Kat
> suggests.
Sure, but "include" exists now, changing how it operates may implement
overloading
the native Eu functions as well as dynamic execution. I didn't say it would
execute
quickly.
And Robert already said dynamic interpretation is insane too.
Kat
10. Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
Rob,
I don't think it's "insane," and I haven't even been following the discussion
very well. (All this AI stuff tends to make my eyes glaze over after a while.)
Given that a program can write a source file at a certain point during
execution, then if it read and executed the file at a later point, that would
provide some degree of self-modifying ability to programs. This would be a very
awkward and roundabout way to go about it, but since you have already told us it
would be inordinately difficult to provide for the execution of strings as
program code, perhaps Kat is trying to find a different way to accomplish similar
ends, that would be less difficult to implement.
With that in mind, having an "include" occur in the flow of program execution is
no more "insane" than executing a string as program code, which is manifestly not
insane because some programming languages do it, and some programs make use of
that feature.
Regards,
George
--
On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 10:00:35
Robert Craig wrote:
>Kat writes:
> > Say, Robert,, what if "include" wasn't a top level statement,
>> what if we could put the "include" statement in the program
>> flow in a procedure or function, like in a loop or in a
>> windows event?
>
>That would be insane.
>
>Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
>
>
>
Get your small business started at Lycos Small Business at
http://www.lycos.com/business/mail.html
11. Re: Evolving/Learning AI progs (was RE: Let me try once more)
Now now people!
Don't slap Rob around with his statement.
What he meanth was: "That would require an insane
amount of work".
Now shut up about it before I'll kick your ass back to
breakfast ;)
Now, if you'd propose this whole dynamic inclusion to
*me*, I'd say: "Oh yes!! And then I'd put in a super
duper automagical coke sniffer that farts chemical
gasses and sucks white assholes!".
It's a crazy idea and would be slow as hell.
If that's what you're *realy* aming for, take a look
at the Dynamic Inclusion lib by <insert name>.
It does what yall want, but it's *s l o w*
Dynamic Interpretation is used by loads of languages
out there.
VB has VB script, wich can run code as strings.
I used to use this feature of VB a lot when hacking
around in VB a few years ago.
But what the hey...
Maybe Kat can code her own language and we'll all be
using that ;)
Mike The Spike
--- George Henry <ghenryca at LYCOS.COM> wrote:
> Rob,
>
> I don't think it's "insane," and I haven't even been
> following the discussion very well. (All this AI
> stuff tends to make my eyes glaze over after a
> while.)
>
> Given that a program can write a source file at a
> certain point during execution, then if it read and
> executed the file at a later point, that would
> provide some degree of self-modifying ability to
> programs. This would be a very awkward and
> roundabout way to go about it, but since you have
> already told us it would be inordinately difficult
> to provide for the execution of strings as program
> code, perhaps Kat is trying to find a different way
> to accomplish similar ends, that would be less
> difficult to implement.
>
> With that in mind, having an "include" occur in the
> flow of program execution is no more "insane" than
> executing a string as program code, which is
> manifestly not insane because some programming
> languages do it, and some programs make use of that
> feature.
>
> Regards,
> George
>
> --
>
> On Fri, 02 Feb 2001 10:00:35
> Robert Craig wrote:
> >Kat writes:
> > > Say, Robert,, what if "include" wasn't a top
> level statement,
> >> what if we could put the "include" statement in
> the program
> >> flow in a procedure or function, like in a loop
> or in a
> >> windows event?
> >
> >That would be insane.
> >
> >Regards,
> > Rob Craig
> > Rapid Deployment Software
> > http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
> >
> >
>
> >
>
>
> Get your small business started at Lycos Small
> Business at http://www.lycos.com/business/mail.html
>
>
