1. A proposal for Euphoria
- Posted by Jeremy Peterson <ptl99 at hotmail.com>
Jul 27, 2006
-
Last edited Jul 28, 2006
Rob, if you or someone else(like me maybe) would:
Package Euphoria with Win32lib, Judith's IDE, and various libraries culled from
the Archive and given a once-over, add a nice setup program that installs
everything so you can immediately use it - would You put a DL link to it on the
website for people to use?
IMO if packaged right this would attract more people to Euphoria having certain
libraries and programs available immediately to use, instead of going all through
the Archive and posting on the forum about it.
Jeremy
2. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Jeremy Peterson wrote:
>
> Rob, if you or someone else(like me maybe) would:
>
> Package Euphoria with Win32lib, Judith's IDE, and various libraries
> culled from the Archive and given a once-over, add a nice setup
> program that installs everything so you can immediately use it
> - would You put a DL link to it on the website for people to use?
>
> IMO if packaged right this would attract more people to Euphoria
> having certain libraries and programs available immediately to use,
> instead of going all through the Archive and posting on the forum
> about it.
>
> Jeremy
Perhaps this list from CK is a start.
http://www.cklester.com/euphoria/?page=bestofeu
3. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Thank you, Jerry.
4. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Jeremy Peterson wrote:
> Rob, if you or someone else(like me maybe) would:
>
> Package Euphoria with Win32lib, Judith's IDE, and various libraries culled
> from
> the Archive and given a once-over, add a nice setup program that installs
> everything
> so you can immediately use it - would You put a DL link to it on the website
> for people to use?
>
> IMO if packaged right this would attract more people to Euphoria having
> certain
> libraries and programs available immediately to use, instead of going all
> through
> the Archive and posting on the forum about it.
If you do the packaging, I'll put a link to it
on the RDS site. (I hope Judith and Derek are ok with that.)
Thanks. I'm sure it will help some beginners.
I'd rather not be the one bundling other people's work with my own.
I'm trying to make money. They aren't.
Also, I'd have to update the overall package whenever they
updated their packages, or I updated mine.
People will always need a way to update my portion
or one of their's, separately. I also don't want to
officially favor Win32Lib over wxEuphoria or EuWinGUI etc.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
5. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Robert Craig wrote:
>
>
> I'd rather not be the one bundling other people's work with my own.
> I'm trying to make money. They aren't.
> Also, I'd have to update the overall package whenever they
> updated their packages, or I updated mine.
> People will always need a way to update my portion
> or one of their's, separately. I also don't want to
> officially favor Win32Lib over wxEuphoria or EuWinGUI etc.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> <a href="http://www.RapidEuphoria.com">http://www.RapidEuphoria.com</a>
I could see having a configurable "value added" installer
using the archive database, role (cgi, GUI development,etc)
and platform preference tables, and
it would be able to check the RSS feed for updates.
a form would guide the user through configuration choices,
it would download the required libraries, extract, then set
additional paths in %EUDIR%
--"ask about our layaway plan".
--
6. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
- Posted by ags <eu at 531pi.co.nz>
Jul 28, 2006
Michael Raley wrote:
> I could see having a configurable "value added" installer
> using the archive database, role (cgi, GUI development,etc)
> and platform preference tables, and
> it would be able to check the RSS feed for updates.
>
> a form would guide the user through configuration choices,
> it would download the required libraries, extract, then set
> additional paths in %EUDIR%
Why not just extend that to all libraries in general? If they are packaged in a
certain way and The Archive was restructured to include those kinds of categories
then we could have a good library package management system like CPAN (Perl) for
example (search.cpan.org for those who haven't seen it).
There is the underlying problem of Euphoria's, er, 'simplified' include system
though, needing the EUINC variable to be updated for every new folder that the
include resides in (which IMHO is the preferable way to do it, to avoid file name
conflicts).
In Perl if you 'include' something like "Data::Dumper" or "HTTP::Headers::Util"
then the library files will be (under some root library folder) ./Data/Dumper.pm
and ./HTTP/Headers/Util.pm respectively.
When you want to install Data::Dumper you fire up the CPAN shell and invoke
"install Data::Dumper" and it will contact the server and download and install
everything.
A similar idea is something like Linux distribution package management or
Cygwin's installer.
But yeah, if and until the include system is er, 'enhanced' I don't see that
happening (and no I am not hating on Euphoria 
Gary
7. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Great. I'll get right on that.
I think it's best if I just pick a stable version of Win32Lib-Judith's IDE to be
in it, not constantly updating it.
Also, I picked Win32Lib over the other 2-3-4, because IMO it is easier-best for
beginners to start out with that, and then once they are comfortable with
Euphoria and Windows programming move on to other libraries if they'd like.
Jeremy
8. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Jeremy Peterson wrote:
>
> Great. I'll get right on that.
> I think it's best if I just pick a stable version of Win32Lib-Judith's IDE to
> be in it, not constantly updating it.
>
> Also, I picked Win32Lib over the other 2-3-4, because IMO it is easier-best
> for beginners to start out with that, and then once they are comfortable with
> Euphoria and Windows programming move on to other libraries if they'd like.
>
> Jeremy
Hey hold on there!
You'd best not copy just any IDE you want. The latest version 0.21.0 is very
stable. However it requires a special version of Win32lib; without that version
IDE will NOT RUN on some versions of Windows. There are also translations of IDE
which are in external files. Will you package them too?
You state you will not keep your package updated. IDE is updated every 3-5
months. Will you offer a link to Recent Contributions Page or at least mention in
a README file that there may be later versions of the softwares avalable on RCP?
In fact the better approach might be to offer a links because there are 2
flavors of each IDE release: the complete source and Andy Drummond's bound
version which has its own nice installer.
If I were a new user and downloaded your package and then found out some of your
offerings were old and I needed to download again from somewhere else I'd get
confused and turned off. I think your idea to package up some software for a new
user is a good idea but I think you should consider keeping your package current.
9. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
- Posted by Jeremy Peterson <ptl99 at hotmail.com>
Jul 28, 2006
-
Last edited Jul 29, 2006
Sorry, that was phrased wrong. I meant, it won't be updated like every time 1
or 2 bugs were fixed in the program.
For the 3-5 month apart updates, I probably would upload a new installer with
the new IDE.
Btw, I've got an installer working pretty good already, packaged with:
Eu 2.5
Win32Lib
The IDE
A Translator front-end
A CHM Help file with all the documentation(Taken from the Archive, Brian Broker
posted it).
The Crimson Editor.
The Setup file is about 4.7 MB.
About having links instead, that is exactly what I don't want new users to have
to do. I think it is easier to have 1 package you DL, not 5 different ones you
must search for and download separately.
Jeremy
10. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:52:40 -0700, Jeremy Peterson
<guest at RapidEuphoria.com> wrote:
>Btw, I've got an installer working pretty good already, packaged with:
>Eu 2.5
>Win32Lib
>The IDE
OK
>A Translator front-end
What good is that without a bundled C compiler? Think "novice"!
>A CHM Help file with all the documentation(Taken from the Archive, Brian Broker
>posted it).
>The Crimson Editor.
!?EH?!
OK, I'll bite. Why Crimson not Edita? Have you (even) looked at the
"plus" version of Edita? </shameless plug> )
>About having links instead, that is exactly what I don't want new
>users to have to do. I think it is easier to have 1 package you DL,
>not 5 different ones you must search for and download separately.
You miss the point by a country mile.
1) links that can be selected and auto-downloaded.
2) a package that knows what it has and has not got.
3) active links that can check if an update is online
(needs version.html's, *somewhere*, that you read;
you sh(c)ould ask Judith, Derek, etc to host these.)
4) organise best-of, but don't overload novice all-at-once.
5) etc
Regards,
Pete
11. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Jeremy Peterson wrote:
>
> Sorry, that was phrased wrong. I meant, it won't be updated like every time
> 1 or 2 bugs were fixed in the program.
> For the 3-5 month apart updates, I probably would upload a new installer with
> the new IDE.
>
> Btw, I've got an installer working pretty good already, packaged with:
> Eu 2.5
> Win32Lib
> The IDE
> A Translator front-end
> A CHM Help file with all the documentation(Taken from the Archive, Brian
> Broker
> posted it).
> The Crimson Editor.
>
> The Setup file is about 4.7 MB.
>
> About having links instead, that is exactly what I don't want new users to
> have
> to do. I think it is easier to have 1 package you DL, not 5 different ones
> you must search for and download separately.
>
> Jeremy
Which Win32lib did you include? If you don't include the one that IDE requires
IDE may not run. Did you include Andy Drummnd's bound IDE version or the complete
IDE source version?
12. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Uh, I need to clarify my response.
If you include Andy's bound IDE version then you can include in your package any
Win32lib you want.
If you include the full IDE source then you need to package the win32lib
required by IDE or IDE may not run.
13. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Pete Lomax wrote:
>
> OK, I'll bite. Why Crimson not Edita? Have you (even) looked at the
> "plus" version of Edita? </shameless plug> )
Pete, can I make a request for Edita? Automagic FTP upload/download. That's the
only reason I use Crimson and not Edita.
-=ck
"Programming in a state of Euphoria."
http://www.cklester.com/euphoria/
14. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Pete Lomax wrote:
>
> On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:52:40 -0700, Jeremy Peterson
> <guest at RapidEuphoria.com> wrote:
>
> >Btw, I've got an installer working pretty good already, packaged with:
> >Eu 2.5
> >Win32Lib
> >The IDE
> OK
> >A Translator front-end
> What good is that without a bundled C compiler? Think "novice"!
Good point, I'll remove that.
> >A CHM Help file with all the documentation(Taken from the Archive, Brian
> >Broker
> posted it).</font></i>
> >The Crimson Editor.
> !?EH?!
> OK, I'll bite. Why Crimson not Edita? Have you (even) looked at the
> "plus" version of Edita? </shameless plug> )
Plus version of Edita? I only know about the regular version. Could you
enlighten me on the plus version's features?
I picked Crimson because 1. I like using it, it's a very handy editor, 2. It's
a very small 1MB setup file, 3. Um well there is no 3.
> >About having links instead, that is exactly what I don't want new
> >users to have to do. I think it is easier to have 1 package you DL,
> >not 5 different ones you must search for and download separately.
> You miss the point by a country mile.
> 1) links that can be selected and auto-downloaded.
> 2) a package that knows what it has and has not got.
> 3) active links that can check if an update is online
> (needs version.html's, *somewhere*, that you read;
> you sh(c)ould ask Judith, Derek, etc to host these.)
> 4) organise best-of, but don't overload novice all-at-once.
> 5) etc
I've been known to do that before. 
I still think having a single package you DL is easier for both me and the
person downloading it.
Btw, Andy Drummond's bound version will be the one included, not the complete
source version.
>
> Regards,
> Pete
>
>
Jeremy
15. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:31:34 -0700, Jeremy Peterson
<guest at RapidEuphoria.com> wrote:
>Plus version of Edita? I only know about the regular version.
>Could you enlighten me on the plus version's features?
See http://palacebuilders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/edita.htm#download
The "plus" release contains everything you might need to edit and run
Euphoria programs, however it is intended for demonstration only: at
some point you are expected to delete some files (those listed in
pkzplus.lst) and install a full version of Euphoria (from
www.rapideuphoria.com, the free version will suffice).
I suspect what you want to do is either:
a) require Euphoria to be installed first, or
b) do it properly, unlike my "plus" version.
BTW, you may prefer to examine zip files (left column) rather than the
"windows installer"s. If you install either to a new folder, then
later delete that folder, your system will be left unchanged.
>I picked Crimson because 1. I like using it, it's a very handy editor, 2. It's
>a very small 1MB setup file, 3. Um well there is no 3.
Thing is, it is OK for you to prefer Crimson, but you can't add an
Eu-specific feature to it, like you can with an editor written in Eu.
Even if you choose one of the many other editors available in the
archives, at least choose one written in Eu.
>I still think having a single package you DL is easier for both me and the
>person downloading it.
Depends how you view it, short term or long term. At the moment you
say 4.7MB; if this concept works, it'll grow. Will you feel the same
when your "basics" grows into "recommended libraries and utilities" at
60MB? Why would you stop at making it easy to install six things?
I fully agree about not "searching for" other packages.
Regards,
Pete
16. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Pete Lomax wrote:
>
> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:31:34 -0700, Jeremy Peterson
> <guest at RapidEuphoria.com> wrote:
>
> >Plus version of Edita? I only know about the regular version.
> >Could you enlighten me on the plus version's features?
> See <a
> href="http://palacebuilders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/edita.htm#download">http://palacebuilders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/edita.htm#download</a>
> The "plus" release contains everything you might need to edit and run
> Euphoria programs, however it is intended for demonstration only: at
> some point you are expected to delete some files (those listed in
> pkzplus.lst) and install a full version of Euphoria (from
> www.rapideuphoria.com, the free version will suffice).
>
> I suspect what you want to do is either:
> a) require Euphoria to be installed first, or
> b) do it properly, unlike my "plus" version.
I don't exactly understand what is improper about your "plus" version.
> BTW, you may prefer to examine zip files (left column) rather than the
> "windows installer"s. If you install either to a new folder, then
> later delete that folder, your system will be left unchanged.
Since this is for beginners, I had written the setup program to setup file
associations for .ex .exw and .e just like the regular Euphoria setup program.
> >I picked Crimson because 1. I like using it, it's a very handy editor,
> 2. It's a very small 1MB setup file, 3. Um well there is no 3.</font></i>
>
> Thing is, it is OK for you to prefer Crimson, but you can't add an
> Eu-specific feature to it, like you can with an editor written in Eu.
> Even if you choose one of the many other editors available in the
> archives, at least choose one written in Eu.
> >I still think having a single package you DL is easier for both me and the
> >person
> downloading it.</font></i>
> Depends how you view it, short term or long term. At the moment you
> say 4.7MB; if this concept works, it'll grow. Will you feel the same
> when your "basics" grows into "recommended libraries and utilities" at
> 60MB?
Well, I think the basic version should always remain the same:
Euphoria-Windows Programming Kit, containing Euphoria(current version),
Win32Lib, Enhanced IDE, a Help file, and whichever code editor I pick.
So it shouldn't ever get that large.
If later myself or someone else creates a "recommended libraries and
utilities"(Which is a good idea), it should be a separate package.
No, I'm not being hypocritical, they wouldn't have to search because Rob would
have a link to it on the main site page.
> Why would you stop at making it easy to install six things?
> I fully agree about not "searching for" other packages.
> Regards,
> Pete
>
It might be a good idea for someone to create a .zip(or installer) containing a
set of libraries that most people will find useful.
Jeremy
17. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
On Sun, 2006-07-30 at 04:00 -0700, Jeremy Peterson wrote:
>
> It might be a good idea for someone to create a .zip(or installer) containing
> a set of libraries that most people will find useful.
>
> Jeremy
>
An installer has been created "in euphoria"
http://home.triad.rr.com/h4x3r/installer-project.zip
http://www.rapideuphoria.com/installer-project.zip
Its somewhat manual to setup because I never completed a gui to
automate attaching files to the installer but it does work very well.
Thanks to Al Getz for changing and adding some code to this project
any files/pkgs can be attached to the end of the installer.
I would like to see someone create a gui to automate file attachments
as very much time and effort went into the installers Win-API gui
portion. Its very fast and pretty lightweight compared to most
installers/setup utilities that do have a gui. And its a good reason for
everyone that uses it to buy the euphoria translator.
Hint to Rob Craig that maybe using it for eu v.3 could generate sales.
Regards,
Euman aka H.W. Overman
18. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Subject: Re: A proposal for Euphoria
Pete Lomax wrote:
>
> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:31:34 -0700, Jeremy Peterson
> <guest at RapidEuphoria.com> wrote:
>
> >Plus version of Edita? I only know about the regular version.
> >Could you enlighten me on the plus version's features?
> See <a
href="http://palacebuilders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/edita.htm#download">http://
palacebuilders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/edita.htm#download</a>
> The "plus" release contains everything you might need to edit and run
> Euphoria programs, however it is intended for demonstration only: at
> some point you are expected to delete some files (those listed in
> pkzplus.lst) and install a full version of Euphoria (from
> www.rapideuphoria.com, the free version will suffice).
>
> I suspect what you want to do is either:
> a) require Euphoria to be installed first, or
> b) do it properly, unlike my "plus" version.
I don't exactly understand what is improper about your "plus" version.
> BTW, you may prefer to examine zip files (left column) rather than the
> "windows installer"s. If you install either to a new folder, then
> later delete that folder, your system will be left unchanged.
Since this is for beginners, I had written the setup program to setup file
associations for .ex .exw and .e just like the regular Euphoria setup
program.
> >I picked Crimson because 1. I like using it, it's a very handy editor,
> 2. It's a very small 1MB setup file, 3. Um well there is no 3.</font></i>
>
> Thing is, it is OK for you to prefer Crimson, but you can't add an
> Eu-specific feature to it, like you can with an editor written in Eu.
> Even if you choose one of the many other editors available in the
> archives, at least choose one written in Eu.
> >I still think having a single package you DL is easier for both me and
the person
> downloading it.</font></i>
> Depends how you view it, short term or long term. At the moment you
> say 4.7MB; if this concept works, it'll grow. Will you feel the same
> when your "basics" grows into "recommended libraries and utilities" at
> 60MB?
Well, I think the basic version should always remain the same:
Euphoria-Windows Programming Kit, containing Euphoria(current version),
Win32Lib, Enhanced IDE, a Help file, and whichever code editor I pick.
So it shouldn't ever get that large.
If later myself or someone else creates a "recommended libraries and
utilities"(Which is a good idea), it should be a separate package.
No, I'm not being hypocritical, they wouldn't have to search because Rob
would have a link to it on the main site page.
> Why would you stop at making it easy to install six things?
> I fully agree about not "searching for" other packages.
> Regards,
> Pete
>
It might be a good idea for someone to create a .zip(or installer)
containing a set of libraries that most people will find useful.
Jeremy
------------------------------
If I understand you properly, people new to Euphoria and using Linux are not
entitled to any GUI tool right from the start, they are to fend off by
themselves and find a suitable library in the archive?
Not a good idea IMHO. Please change Win32lib to something cross platform,
wxEuphoria or w/xmotor OTOH (or anything else as long as it is xplat).
People who wish to have some platform-specific tool can look for it in the
Archive.
And while I am at it, why are the Euphoria graphic demo Windows only? v3.0
could ship something as truly cross platform as the language itself or the
commercial arguments drawn from this feature.
CChris
19. Re: A proposal for Euphoria
- Posted by Jeremy Peterson <ptl99 at hotmail.com>
Jul 31, 2006
-
Last edited Aug 01, 2006
No, I'm afraid there's a misunderstanding here. This is supposed to be a
beginner's "Windows" programming kit. Most people who would be using Linux would
have the expertise to get libraries and programs they need off the Archive, and
probably wouldn't want to install something like this.
Well that's my logic anyway.
Jeremy
