1. General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
- Posted by lakatzz at juno.com
Oct 13, 2001
Let's start over here. I am interested in programming &
have for many years.
Now Euphoria claims it is easy to create & learn how to
create programs. I am willing to learn.
I have read some of the introduction to Euphoria & have
been playing with several pgms I have d/led. I kind of
like the idea I have the "choice" to edit, hack, whatever
you want to call it, in order to make pgm do what I want
it to do. On substituting bmp for png, I knew I had to convert the image
files first, then I thought all I had
to do was edit the .eu program file. Ok I was wrong.
That is why I joined this mailing list was to find out
what Euphoria is all about. So far I see the same thing, updates to alot
of what I call plugin. One pgm I was running worked with Win32Lib file
but another pgm would
not. It is confusing to me & I am sure alot of others,
all these versions out there.
Something I wanted to know today was:
1.] When compiling files to a .exe file, what is the minimun .exe would
be? Say my .eu file is 10,000 bytes,
what would the .exe file size be?
In away I would hate to compile pgm as it would be easier
to change it uncompiled. My biggest problem with all this
is, there are so many pgm files to keep up with. Altho without "that"
version pgm file, the pgm itself probably
would not work. Compiled into one pgm file (.exe) compiled
pgm would work every time regardless if I upgraded a pgm
file. Example: Win32Lib pgm file.
2.] All these what I call plugins, dll.e as a example
here, don't they take up alot of RAM memory in general as they are all
loaded into memory when I turn on pc?
When I installed Euphoria just AFEW DAYS AGO now, I notice
instructions wanted Euphoria to be in path statement.
Win9x takes up alot of RAM memory. I hesitated on having
any more take up memory but am trying it out for the time
being till I find something else does not want to work.
3.] Does one really save hard drive space by leaving files
uncompress?
4.] What about when a pgm file is upgraded (Win32Lib), does
this mean I have to edit say my blackjack pgm file (bj.eu)
in order to get my blackjack pgm file to work again?
5.] What are some of the limitations of Euphoria program-
ming language?
Thank you for replying in advance & hope someone out there
understands....YES I AM A NEWIE BUT SO WERE YOU AT ONE
TIME.
Lee
2. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
> 1.] When compiling files to a .exe file, what is the minimun .exe would
> be? Say my .eu file is 10,000 bytes,
> what would the .exe file size be?
When binding , exe = size of the interpreter (exw.exe 72 kB or ex.exe 162
kB) + size of your program
- space saved by shrouding
When using The Euphoria to C Translator, size may vary depending
on used compiler and optimizations.
> In away I would hate to compile pgm as it would be easier
> to change it uncompiled. My biggest problem with all this
> is, there are so many pgm files to keep up with. Altho without "that"
> version pgm file, the pgm itself probably
> would not work. Compiled into one pgm file (.exe) compiled
> pgm would work every time regardless if I upgraded a pgm
> file. Example: Win32Lib pgm file.
>
> 2.] All these what I call plugins, dll.e as a example
> here, don't they take up alot of RAM memory in general as they are all
> loaded into memory when I turn on pc?
NO, they are NOT loaded into memory at start of your machine,
they are loaded only when an Eu program needing them is
executed and they take only few kBytes, I guess, and after
end of the program, the memory is given back to system.
> When I installed Euphoria just AFEW DAYS AGO now, I notice
> instructions wanted Euphoria to be in path statement.
> Win9x takes up alot of RAM memory. I hesitated on having
> any more take up memory but am trying it out for the time
> being till I find something else does not want to work.
Putting Euphoria in PATH will lose only few BYTES of memory
> 3.] Does one really save hard drive
> space by leaving files
> uncompress?
>
> 4.] What about when a pgm file is upgraded (Win32Lib), does
> this mean I have to edit say my blackjack pgm file (bj.eu)
> in order to get my blackjack pgm file to work again?
Depending on changes made to a library, but usually not.
> 5.] What are some of the limitations of Euphoria program-
> ming language?
Euphoria has no limits. Since Euphoria includes ASM,
Euphoria can do anything other lanuages can do. Some
things are easier than in other languages, some more
difficult. The decision is up to you.
Martin
3. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
- Posted by lakatzz at juno.com
Oct 15, 2001
Thank you Martin!
4. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Oct 15, 2001
The easiest way I know of to learn Euphoria is to actually read the
documentation that comes with it. If you dont read the docs you will
*NOT* know what we are talking about when you do ask for an answer.
Read the docs front to back atleast twice but not in all one sitting
practice very small step programs and pay special attention to
sequences as these are Euphoria's main selling point (they make
for easy programming)
Dont get worried if you happen to look at Win32lib's code
or one of the graphics libraries like NEIL, most of the hard
stuff is already completed and there should be no need to look at
anything but the documentation on how to use the library (in most
cases)
for awhile, sit back, take your time and try to absorb as much info on
Euphoria as possible without overloading the ole-noodle.
Dont get frustrated when you dont know or cant find an answer,
sometimes there just isnt an answer to be had and you must drop back
and punt so to speak.
answering your question again:
.png files can not be used with euphoria at this time, no-one I know of
has written a wrapper "code" to use this file format.
jpeg, gif, bmp and maybe one or two other image formats exist for use
with Euphoria. Problem is that some of the image formats contain
proprietary code and require a liscense to use the format this is why
you dont see any code to use them. Take my word for it, there is more than
enough code to display, manipulate, animate, etc, images already on the
user-contrib site that you'll be buisy for atleast a year learning from them.
Euman
euman at bellsouth.net
----- Original Message -----
From: <lakatzz at juno.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 06:11
Subject: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
>
> Let's start over here. I am interested in programming &
> have for many years.
>
> Now Euphoria claims it is easy to create & learn how to
> create programs. I am willing to learn.
>
> I have read some of the introduction to Euphoria & have
> been playing with several pgms I have d/led. I kind of
> like the idea I have the "choice" to edit, hack, whatever
> you want to call it, in order to make pgm do what I want
> it to do. On substituting bmp for png, I knew I had to convert the image
> files first, then I thought all I had
> to do was edit the .eu program file. Ok I was wrong.
> That is why I joined this mailing list was to find out
> what Euphoria is all about. So far I see the same thing, updates to alot
> of what I call plugin. One pgm I was running worked with Win32Lib file
> but another pgm would
> not. It is confusing to me & I am sure alot of others,
> all these versions out there.
>
> Something I wanted to know today was:
>
> 1.] When compiling files to a .exe file, what is the minimun .exe would
> be? Say my .eu file is 10,000 bytes,
> what would the .exe file size be?
>
> In away I would hate to compile pgm as it would be easier
> to change it uncompiled. My biggest problem with all this
> is, there are so many pgm files to keep up with. Altho without "that"
> version pgm file, the pgm itself probably
> would not work. Compiled into one pgm file (.exe) compiled
> pgm would work every time regardless if I upgraded a pgm
> file. Example: Win32Lib pgm file.
>
> 2.] All these what I call plugins, dll.e as a example
> here, don't they take up alot of RAM memory in general as they are all
> loaded into memory when I turn on pc?
>
> When I installed Euphoria just AFEW DAYS AGO now, I notice
> instructions wanted Euphoria to be in path statement.
> Win9x takes up alot of RAM memory. I hesitated on having
> any more take up memory but am trying it out for the time
> being till I find something else does not want to work.
>
> 3.] Does one really save hard drive space by leaving files
> uncompress?
>
> 4.] What about when a pgm file is upgraded (Win32Lib), does
> this mean I have to edit say my blackjack pgm file (bj.eu)
> in order to get my blackjack pgm file to work again?
>
> 5.] What are some of the limitations of Euphoria program-
> ming language?
>
> Thank you for replying in advance & hope someone out there
> understands....YES I AM A NEWIE BUT SO WERE YOU AT ONE
> TIME.
>
> Lee
>
>
>
5. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
Hi Martin,
What's ASM? And what's your opinion on Euphoria's strength in a multi-user
enviroment?
Jasper.
Martin Stachon
<martin.stachon@world To: EUforum <EUforum at
topica.com>
online.cz> cc:
Subject: Re: General
Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
13-10-2001 17:26
Please respond to
EUforum
....
> 5.] What are some of the limitations of Euphoria program-
> ming language?
Euphoria has no limits. Since Euphoria includes ASM,
Euphoria can do anything other lanuages can do. Some
things are easier than in other languages, some more
difficult. The decision is up to you.
Martin
6. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
- Posted by euman at bellsouth.net
Oct 15, 2001
> > 5.] What are some of the limitations of Euphoria program-
> > ming language?
>
> Euphoria has no limits. Since Euphoria includes ASM,
> Euphoria can do anything other lanuages can do. Some
> things are easier than in other languages, some more
> difficult. The decision is up to you.
>
> Martin
I disagree with the no limits to what euphoria can do....
1. We cant have Multiple threads in Windows.
and because I'm pressed for time, I wont mention the 100's more.
Tit-for-tat, Euphoria still rules in my book!
Euman
euman at bellsouth.net
7. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
On 15 Oct 2001, at 21:40, euman at bellsouth.net wrote:
>
>
> > > 5.] What are some of the limitations of Euphoria program-
> > > ming language?
> >
> > Euphoria has no limits. Since Euphoria includes ASM,
> > Euphoria can do anything other lanuages can do. Some
> > things are easier than in other languages, some more
> > difficult. The decision is up to you.
> >
> > Martin
>
> I disagree with the no limits to what euphoria can do....
>
> 1. We cant have Multiple threads in Windows.
2. Can't execute strings either.
Kat,
not mentioning #3: no goto.
8. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
- Posted by lakatzz at juno.com
Oct 15, 2001
On Sat, 13 Oct 2001 13:46:09 -0500
euman at bellsouth.net writes:
> .png files can not be used with euphoria at this time,
> no-one I know of has written a wrapper "code" to use this
> file format.
So there are some limits. I just read from another msg that there is no
"goto" & "string" function. I am abit
disappointed of the size of the "binded" file size at
this time. I have already tried unsuccessfully, to compress a pgm that
was written with Euphoria. The pgm
file got corrupted when I compress/pack the pgm file.
I do have a small viewer I am playing with now & the
file size is less than 10k. While it is limited to it's
ability to do some things I would like, it will view large
text files, which is what the pgm is designed to do, has
a "goto", "string" & "find" command in it. For what I am
trying to use it for, it can not do some things that
Windoz's pgms do. I am trying to find a pgm that will
do the same my emailer pgm can do but written for Dos.
View large text file, sort, find, & search featured in the
viewer. List.com is/was a popular text viewer made with
Dos in mind but not designed for my application.
> Problem is that some of the image formats contain
> proprietary code and require a liscense to use the format > this is why
you dont see any code to use them.
The code file that supports these other format is not
available without registering Euphoria?
> Take my word for it, there is more than enough code to
> display, manipulate, animate, etc, images already on
> the user-contrib site that you'll be buisy for at least a
> year learning from them.
Do you know other programming languages & use them when
you can not get Euphoria to do what you want?
Thanks for info. While Euphoria is limited I like that
it can work in multiple os's. I am just wondering if with
only afew key program files such as ex.exe, exw.exe, win32lib.ew & maybe
afew others, that I can run some pgms
& save hard drive space at the same time.
Lee
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <lakatzz at juno.com>
> To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 06:11
> Subject: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
---------------------- snip ----------------------------
9. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
10. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
- Posted by rforno at tutopia.com
Oct 16, 2001
----- Original Message -----
From: <lakatzz at juno.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
>
> On Sat, 13 Oct 2001 13:46:09 -0500
> euman at bellsouth.net writes:
> > .png files can not be used with euphoria at this time,
> > no-one I know of has written a wrapper "code" to use this
> > file format.
>
> So there are some limits. I just read from another msg that there is no
> "goto" & "string" function. I am abit
> disappointed of the size of the "binded" file size at
> this time. I have already tried unsuccessfully, to compress a pgm that
> was written with Euphoria. The pgm
> file got corrupted when I compress/pack the pgm file.
>
"goto" is purposely ommitted in order to insure structured program
standards.
What Euphoria does not have is a way to *execute* strings, not a way to
deal with them.
The size of the "binded" program is somewhat large because it includes the
interpreter itself.
What method to compress a program did you use? Was it a source or a "binded"
program? How did you use it once compressed? Normally compression does not
corrupt files. I zipped many times both source and "binded" Euphoria
programs without loss.
> I do have a small viewer I am playing with now & the
> file size is less than 10k. While it is limited to it's
> ability to do some things I would like, it will view large
> text files, which is what the pgm is designed to do, has
> a "goto", "string" & "find" command in it. For what I am
> trying to use it for, it can not do some things that
> Windoz's pgms do. I am trying to find a pgm that will
> do the same my emailer pgm can do but written for Dos.
> View large text file, sort, find, & search featured in the
> viewer. List.com is/was a popular text viewer made with
> Dos in mind but not designed for my application.
>
A "goto" in a viewer is not the same and does not perform the same function
as a "goto" in a source program.
Will you please explain why "list.com" is not designed for your application?
There are many editors in the web that may suit your needs. Aurora is one of
them. It cannot be found now in the web, but I can mail you a copy of it. It
is shareware for DOS, but as the company apparently dissapeared, it is
difficult to pay for it.
> > Problem is that some of the image formats contain
> > proprietary code and require a liscense to use the format > this is why
> you dont see any code to use them.
>
> The code file that supports these other format is not
> available without registering Euphoria?
>
It has nothing to do with registration. I do not know if there is software
dealing with these formats that can be accessed from Euphoria programs.
> > Take my word for it, there is more than enough code to
> > display, manipulate, animate, etc, images already on
> > the user-contrib site that you'll be buisy for at least a
> > year learning from them.
>
> Do you know other programming languages & use them when
> you can not get Euphoria to do what you want?
>
Yes. I sometimes use Assembler, C, APL. One can use Assembler within
Euphoria. But usually I am satisfied with Euphoria alone.
> Thanks for info. While Euphoria is limited I like that
> it can work in multiple os's. I am just wondering if with
> only afew key program files such as ex.exe, exw.exe, win32lib.ew & maybe
> afew others, that I can run some pgms
> & save hard drive space at the same time.
>
Euphoria is great to save space, because it is interpreted. If you do not
need to hide your code from prying eyes, it is usually best to use directly
the source code.
> Lee
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <lakatzz at juno.com>
> > To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 06:11
> > Subject: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
> ---------------------- snip ----------------------------
>
>
>
11. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
- Posted by lakatzz at juno.com
Oct 17, 2001
On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 23:05:15 -0300 rforno at tutopia.com writes:
> > euman at bellsouth.net writes:
> What method to compress a program did you use?
In past I have been successfull in using a pgm called:
UPX but on Euphoria's ex.exe & exw.exe & another pgm I
found on net, it would not pack the pgm files.
> Was it a source or a "binded" program?
UPX usually works on almost every .exe I have used it on
in past. In last year however, everyone is putting some
thing in their .exe preventing UPX to shrink/pack the
.exe. Not sure about this as maybe the industry is pack-
ing their pgm files before releasing them on net. There
are several packer pgm on net including APack. UPX is
one I found afew years ago & is freeware.
> Will you please explain why "list.com" is not designed
> for your application?
This viewer links one text file to another...similiar to
the way a htm file is designed by clicking on a link in
a htm file & take you to another htm (link). In this case
the viewer takes you to another text file. Viewer is made
by Horst Shaeffee & is called: Show It is freeware.
He is still working on it as his old version I have was
never release on the net but he sent it to me a year ago.
Old version has afew more feature than the new version has.
You can also have a numbered toc in first part of text &
it will take you to that part of text you click on.
Example:
1.] Introduction
2.] About Us
When clicking on 1.] Show will jump further down the text/
doc file to where 1.] is located.
I have not seen a viewer (of text files) do this before &
thought it was cleaver what Show does.
> There are many editors in the web that may suit your
> needs. Aurora is one of them. It cannot be found now in
> the web, but I can mail you a copy of it.
Thanks I would like to try it.
> Euphoria is great to save space, because it is
> interpreted. If you do not need to hide your code from
> prying eyes, it is usually best to use directly
> the source code.
Thanks, that clears alot up in mind about Euphoria &
programming.
Lee
12. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
> > I disagree with the no limits to what euphoria can do....
> >
> > 1. We cant have Multiple threads in Windows.
>
> 2. Can't execute strings either.
>
> Kat,
> not mentioning #3: no goto.
I don't think executing strings is important.
And Eu isn't the only language lacking it.
Using such fuction could be also security risk
Consider this example code
name = gets(0)
exec("parse(\"" & name & "\")")
what if somebody enters name "Martin") call(#EVIL_CODE) ?
I personally hate gotos from my calculator : the programs
are absolutely unreadable, but this has been discussed before.
Martin
13. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
> In past I have been successfull in using a pgm called:
> UPX but on Euphoria's ex.exe & exw.exe & another pgm I
> found on net, it would not pack the pgm files.
>
> > Was it a source or a "binded" program?
>
> UPX usually works on almost every .exe I have used it on
> in past. In last year however, everyone is putting some
> thing in their .exe preventing UPX to shrink/pack the
> .exe. Not sure about this as maybe the industry is pack-
> ing their pgm files before releasing them on net. There
> are several packer pgm on net including APack. UPX is
> one I found afew years ago & is freeware.
exw is already packed with UPX, so you won't save space.
You would also damage the Eu code attached to it.
Martin
14. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
On 17 Oct 2001, at 19:32, Martin Stachon wrote:
>
> > > I disagree with the no limits to what euphoria can do....
> > >
> > > 1. We cant have Multiple threads in Windows.
> >
> > 2. Can't execute strings either.
> >
> > Kat,
> > not mentioning #3: no goto.
>
> I don't think executing strings is important.
> And Eu isn't the only language lacking it.
> Using such fuction could be also security risk
> Consider this example code
> name = gets(0)
> exec("parse(\"" & name & "\")")
>
> what if somebody enters name "Martin") call(#EVIL_CODE) ?
Mirc and lua can exec strings, and i use it to do dynamic coding. If others
will be using your program, simply filter what is in the string before it
executes.
> I personally hate gotos from my calculator : the programs
> are absolutely unreadable, but this has been discussed before.
Yeas, you are free to not use the goto. On the other hand,....
Kat
15. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
- Posted by rforno at tutopia.com
Oct 18, 2001
Another comment: I found that many times an editor is better for searching
data in a file than a database. You can search by means of a simple command,
that will return some irrelevant matches, but usually will at last spot what
you are looking for. On the other hand, a database will find exactly what
you want and then extract the record, but it is more complex to handle and
requires more work. You'd better try first the editor and see if it suits
your needs.
----- Original Message -----
From: <lakatzz at juno.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
>
>
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 23:05:15 -0300 rforno at tutopia.com writes:
> > > euman at bellsouth.net writes:
>
> > What method to compress a program did you use?
>
> In past I have been successfull in using a pgm called:
> UPX but on Euphoria's ex.exe & exw.exe & another pgm I
> found on net, it would not pack the pgm files.
>
> > Was it a source or a "binded" program?
>
> UPX usually works on almost every .exe I have used it on
> in past. In last year however, everyone is putting some
> thing in their .exe preventing UPX to shrink/pack the
> .exe. Not sure about this as maybe the industry is pack-
> ing their pgm files before releasing them on net. There
> are several packer pgm on net including APack. UPX is
> one I found afew years ago & is freeware.
>
> > Will you please explain why "list.com" is not designed
> > for your application?
>
> This viewer links one text file to another...similiar to
> the way a htm file is designed by clicking on a link in
> a htm file & take you to another htm (link). In this case
> the viewer takes you to another text file. Viewer is made
> by Horst Shaeffee & is called: Show It is freeware.
> He is still working on it as his old version I have was
> never release on the net but he sent it to me a year ago.
> Old version has afew more feature than the new version has.
>
> You can also have a numbered toc in first part of text &
> it will take you to that part of text you click on.
>
> Example:
>
> 1.] Introduction
> 2.] About Us
>
> When clicking on 1.] Show will jump further down the text/
> doc file to where 1.] is located.
>
> I have not seen a viewer (of text files) do this before &
> thought it was cleaver what Show does.
>
> > There are many editors in the web that may suit your
> > needs. Aurora is one of them. It cannot be found now in
> > the web, but I can mail you a copy of it.
>
> Thanks I would like to try it.
>
> > Euphoria is great to save space, because it is
> > interpreted. If you do not need to hide your code from
> > prying eyes, it is usually best to use directly
> > the source code.
>
> Thanks, that clears alot up in mind about Euphoria &
> programming.
>
> Lee
>
>
>
16. Re: General Questions about Euphoria..exe file size minimum
Kat wrote:
> Mirc and lua can exec strings, and i use it to do dynamic coding. If
others
> will be using your program, simply filter what is in the string before it
> executes.
I've personally never felt a need for executing strings.
I think most programmers too.
Translation to C of such Eu programs would be also more difficult.
> > I personally hate gotos from my calculator : the programs
> > are absolutely unreadable, but this has been discussed before.
>
> Yeas, you are free to not use the goto. On the other hand,....
>
> Kat
I agree gotos are sometimes useful, especially inside routines.
Martin
