1. Micro-Economy
I've been thinking of ways of expanding participation
in the Micro-Economy system, now that Euphoria is free.
I propose that we allow anyone to vote ($3 per month)
providing they meet any of the following criteria:
1. they are an existing registered user of Euphoria
(i.e. of version 2.5 or any earlier release, any product)
or,
2. they have contributed an accepted file to the file archive
or,
3. they have posted 10 or more (non-spam) messages on EUforum
(going back to 1996)
or,
4. they have ever paid or donated money to RDS, or any other
developer or supporter of Euphoria, for some reason related
to supporting the Euphoria community
Can you think of any other criteria? Any changes to the above?
Obviously it would still be illegal to contribute more
than $3 by using multiple identities. Also, you can't vote
for your own file, etc.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
2. Re: Micro-Economy
Yikes, Rob! We are on different tracks...
Originally, The Micro-Economy vote(s) represented the opinion
of those who supported monetarily the development of Euphoria
by purchasing a license and was was an incentive for more people
to support Euphoria by buying the license.
I think the same principles should apply to any amendment to
the Micro Economy.
For example... a $50 "real money" donation to RDS, or a specified
Euphoria Developer, would entitle the donator to 50 Micro-economy
dollar votes. RDS could receive and disburse Micro-Economy donations
and levy a modest management fee for donations which it receives and
disburses to specific developers.
Any developers who do not wish to have their donations "taxed" by
a modest management fee can simply post the information where donations
should be made directly, in which case no Micro-economy vote would apply.
The bottom line is that I think the Micro-Economy vote should be made
more meaningful. I see Robs current proposal as being highly inflationary
and therefore a move in the wrong direction.
Respectfully,
Ken Rhodes
Folding at Home: http://folding.stanford.edu/
100% MicroSoft Free
SuSE Linux 10.0
No AdWare, SpyWare, or Viruses!
Life is Good, 
3. Re: Micro-Economy
- Posted by Michael Raley <thinkways at yahoo.com>
Apr 29, 2007
-
Last edited Apr 30, 2007
Have you considered Euphoria branded merchandise?
maybe open an online store ?
--"ask about our layaway plan".
--
4. Re: Micro-Economy
- Posted by CChris <christian.cuvier at agriculture.gouv.fr>
Apr 29, 2007
-
Last edited Apr 30, 2007
Robert Craig wrote:
>
> I've been thinking of ways of expanding participation
> in the Micro-Economy system, now that Euphoria is free.
>
> I propose that we allow anyone to vote ($3 per month)
> providing they meet any of the following criteria:
>
> 1. they are an existing registered user of Euphoria
> (i.e. of version 2.5 or any earlier release, any product)
>
> or,
>
> 2. they have contributed an accepted file to the file archive
>
> or,
>
> 3. they have posted 10 or more (non-spam) messages on EUforum
> (going back to 1996)
>
> or,
>
> 4. they have ever paid or donated money to RDS, or any other
> developer or supporter of Euphoria, for some reason related
> to supporting the Euphoria community
>
> Can you think of any other criteria? Any changes to the above?
>
> Obviously it would still be illegal to contribute more
> than $3 by using multiple identities. Also, you can't vote
> for your own file, etc.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> <a href="http://www.RapidEuphoria.com">http://www.RapidEuphoria.com</a>
Looks fair, I'll vote for it.
CChris
5. Re: Micro-Economy
- Posted by Jason Gade <jaygade at yahoo.com>
Apr 29, 2007
-
Last edited Apr 30, 2007
Interesting idea...
I wouldn't want to open it up quite the same way -- I would go for more of a
graduated scale.
Maybe $3 for each criterion that you posted? So someone who met all four
criteria would have $12 per month. Or lower it to $1 per criterion and the max
would be $4.
I would personally qualify for $2 and that would be pretty cool.
It would also depend on who votes and how often they vote.
--
"Any programming problem can be solved by adding a level of indirection."
--anonymous
"Any performance problem can be solved by removing a level of indirection."
--M. Haertel
"Premature optimization is the root of all evil in programming."
--C.A.R. Hoare
j.
6. Re: Micro-Economy
- Posted by Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
Apr 29, 2007
-
Last edited Apr 30, 2007
Robert Craig wrote:
>
> I've been thinking of ways of expanding participation
> in the Micro-Economy system, now that Euphoria is free.
>
> I propose that we allow anyone to vote ($3 per month)
> providing they meet any of the following criteria:
>
> 1. they are an existing registered user of Euphoria
> (i.e. of version 2.5 or any earlier release, any product)
>
> or,
>
> 2. they have contributed an accepted file to the file archive
>
> or,
>
> 3. they have posted 10 or more (non-spam) messages on EUforum
> (going back to 1996)
>
> or,
>
> 4. they have ever paid or donated money to RDS, or any other
> developer or supporter of Euphoria, for some reason related
> to supporting the Euphoria community
>
> Can you think of any other criteria? Any changes to the above?
>
> Obviously it would still be illegal to contribute more
> than $3 by using multiple identities. Also, you can't vote
> for your own file, etc.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> <a href="http://www.RapidEuphoria.com">http://www.RapidEuphoria.com</a>
Hi,
Perhaps instead of a micro econ there could be a site where people
can leave short notes about what they think of the program.
Currently, the micro econ makes a statement about people who
use the program and like it but leaves no way open for constructive
criticism...you cant vote minus $1 (-1 microbuck) if you DONT like
a program, or that program crashes as soon as you run it.
Positive feedback is a good thing, but negative feedback is what
makes control systems work. If it wasnt for
that negative feedback systems all over the world would be
crashing day after day. If the users have a quick and simple
way of letting the writers know about a problem the author would
know rigth away and possibly make changes to correct the problem.
Also, when the same person votes over and over again for the same
program that inflates its true impact on the community. Perhaps
a limit of one vote per program for the same person.
Take care,
Al
E boa sorte com sua programacao Euphoria!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
7. Re: Micro-Economy
- Posted by Jonas Temple <jtemple at yhti.net>
Apr 29, 2007
-
Last edited Apr 30, 2007
Since Euphoria is free, is Micro-Economy even necessary? We can't "do" anything
with our ME bucks so it's kinda pointless. Instead I would suggest maybe a
rating/review system? I think someone also suggested this.
Jonas Temple
http://www.innovativesys.net
8. Re: Micro-Economy
- Posted by Jason Gade <jaygade at yahoo.com>
Apr 29, 2007
-
Last edited Apr 30, 2007
Jonas Temple wrote:
>
> Since Euphoria is free, is Micro-Economy even necessary? We can't "do"
> anything
> with our ME bucks so it's kinda pointless. Instead I would suggest maybe a
> rating/review system? I think someone also suggested this.
>
> Jonas Temple
> <a href="http://www.innovativesys.net">http://www.innovativesys.net</a>
But that's what it is, and always has been in my opinion.
--
"Any programming problem can be solved by adding a level of indirection."
--anonymous
"Any performance problem can be solved by removing a level of indirection."
--M. Haertel
"Premature optimization is the root of all evil in programming."
--C.A.R. Hoare
j.
9. Re: Micro-Economy
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Robert Craig wrote:
> >
> > I've been thinking of ways of expanding participation
> > in the Micro-Economy system, now that Euphoria is free.
> >
> > I propose that we allow anyone to vote ($3 per month)
> > providing they meet any of the following criteria:
> >
> > 1. they are an existing registered user of Euphoria
> > (i.e. of version 2.5 or any earlier release, any product)
> >
> > or,
> >
> > 2. they have contributed an accepted file to the file archive
> >
> > or,
> >
> > 3. they have posted 10 or more (non-spam) messages on EUforum
> > (going back to 1996)
> >
> > or,
> >
> > 4. they have ever paid or donated money to RDS, or any other
> > developer or supporter of Euphoria, for some reason related
> > to supporting the Euphoria community
> >
> > Can you think of any other criteria? Any changes to the above?
> >
> > Obviously it would still be illegal to contribute more
> > than $3 by using multiple identities. Also, you can't vote
> > for your own file, etc.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob Craig
> > Rapid Deployment Software
> > <a href="http://www.RapidEuphoria.com">http://www.RapidEuphoria.com</a>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> Perhaps instead of a micro econ there could be a site where people
> can leave short notes about what they think of the program.
> Currently, the micro econ makes a statement about people who
> use the program and like it but leaves no way open for constructive
> criticism...you cant vote minus $1 (-1 microbuck) if you DONT like
> a program, or that program crashes as soon as you run it.
> Positive feedback is a good thing, but negative feedback is what
> makes control systems work. If it wasnt for
> that negative feedback systems all over the world would be
> crashing day after day. If the users have a quick and simple
> way of letting the writers know about a problem the author would
> know rigth away and possibly make changes to correct the problem.
>
> Also, when the same person votes over and over again for the same
> program that inflates its true impact on the community. Perhaps
> a limit of one vote per program for the same person.
>
>
> Al
>
> E boa sorte com sua programacao Euphoria!
>
>
> My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
>
I vote for Al's idea. I am both new to Euphoria and I do not understand this
money business. But people critiquing the contributions sounds great. And there
is already something there, but I think these critiques should be in the forum
and an identifier for each contribution is required to be inside the subject in
the forum.
Andy Katz
B.S. Computer Science, 1978
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI)
10. Re: Micro-Economy
I think there should be a rating system, comments (reviews) and perhaps a count
of how many times the file was downloaded. Most of the time, I have no idea what
I'm getting myself into when I'm downloading something from the archive.
Perhaps there could also be some sort of status and type indicators. For
example, is it a library, demo, documentation, modified interpretor, application?
Has someone actually *verified* that it runs on whatever platforms? What
dependencies does it have? Is it unfinished code, released in the hope that
someone might be able to finish and use it? A beta version? Compiled? Thoroughly
tested? Well-documented?
Just "food for thought".
~Ryan W. Johnson
Fluid Application Environment
http://www.fluidae.com/
[cool quote here, if i ever think of one...]
11. Re: Micro-Economy
Michael Raley wrote:
> Have you considered Euphoria branded merchandise?
Yes, I looked into that a long time ago.
I know it's very easy to set up, but
it seemed a bit "tacky".
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
12. Re: Micro-Economy
Al Getz wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> Perhaps instead of a micro econ there could be a site where people
> can leave short notes about what they think of the program.
> Currently, the micro econ makes a statement about people who
> use the program and like it but leaves no way open for constructive
> criticism...you cant vote minus $1 (-1 microbuck) if you DONT like
> a program, or that program crashes as soon as you run it.
> Positive feedback is a good thing, but negative feedback is what
> makes control systems work. If it wasnt for
> that negative feedback systems all over the world would be
> crashing day after day. If the users have a quick and simple
> way of letting the writers know about a problem the author would
> know rigth away and possibly make changes to correct the problem.
>
> Also, when the same person votes over and over again for the same
> program that inflates its true impact on the community. Perhaps
> a limit of one vote per program for the same person.
>
>
> Al
Great idea. I've often downloaded programs only to find they crash immediately
and/or have serious bugs. I don't know how easy it would be to implement, but its
in the spirit of open source and well worth doing IMO.
13. Re: Micro-Economy
Al Getz wrote:
>
>
> Perhaps instead of a micro econ there could be a site where people
> can leave short notes about what they think of the program.
> Currently, the micro econ makes a statement about people who
> use the program and like it but leaves no way open for constructive
> criticism...you cant vote minus $1 (-1 microbuck) if you DONT like
> a program, or that program crashes as soon as you run it.
> Positive feedback is a good thing, but negative feedback is what
> makes control systems work. If it wasnt for
> that negative feedback systems all over the world would be
> crashing day after day. If the users have a quick and simple
> way of letting the writers know about a problem the author would
> know rigth away and possibly make changes to correct the problem.
>
> Also, when the same person votes over and over again for the same
> program that inflates its true impact on the community. Perhaps
> a limit of one vote per program for the same person.
>
>
> Al
Hi there Al,
This here is a link to online Brokers
http://www.broker-reviews.us/
While I'm not advication any specific Broker (or any Broker at all for that
matter), I do like the way they have set it up with "User Comments" on each
Broker. Although not all the Brokers have comments, if some Broker ripped
somebody off then it would be right in the user comments for God and everybody
see. I think this would be helpful in choosing a Broker.
Likewise this could be applied to Euphoria Contributions.
So I agree with you here.
Don Cole
14. Re: Micro-Economy
Jules Davy wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > Perhaps instead of a micro econ there could be a site where people
> > can leave short notes about what they think of the program.
> > Currently, the micro econ makes a statement about people who
> > use the program and like it but leaves no way open for constructive
> > criticism...you cant vote minus $1 (-1 microbuck) if you DONT like
> > a program, or that program crashes as soon as you run it.
> > Positive feedback is a good thing, but negative feedback is what
> > makes control systems work. If it wasnt for
> > that negative feedback systems all over the world would be
> > crashing day after day. If the users have a quick and simple
> > way of letting the writers know about a problem the author would
> > know rigth away and possibly make changes to correct the problem.
> >
> > Also, when the same person votes over and over again for the same
> > program that inflates its true impact on the community. Perhaps
> > a limit of one vote per program for the same person.
> >
> >
> > Al
>
> Great idea. I've often downloaded programs only to find they crash immediately
> and/or have serious bugs. I don't know how easy it would be to implement, but
> its in the spirit of open source and well worth doing IMO.
It is easy to implement. However, it requires one or more moderators, depending
on how many reviews will be posted daily, to correctly associate a review with
the reviewed progrm, filter out spam, inflationary posts etc.
I'd suggest the review pages to be accessible both as a group (a dedicated
page full of links on the site) and from each individual file in
archive(recent section (using the smiley, or lack of it, could be good).
This, plus any suggested attempt to compile dependencies or similar, will
require work. Some of us will have to share, and the trickiest part could be
enabling good willing people to access the reviews and avlidate them, or to
scan through the whole program list and compile the dependency list, or
whatever else would require such a thorough review.
About dependencies: assume a contrib includes v1.23 of a library. Current
version is 2.3. Are we supposed to check which is the latest version that
will be compatible with the program, ie "it requires v1.23, v1.47 will do
but v2.0 crashes"?
I remember such ideas were floated in the past, like compiling the global
symbols created by libraries. No criticism, but nothing happened either.
CChris
15. Re: Micro-Economy
CChris wrote:
>
> Jules Davy wrote:
> >
> > Al Getz wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps instead of a micro econ there could be a site where people
> > > can leave short notes about what they think of the program.
> > > Currently, the micro econ makes a statement about people who
> > > use the program and like it but leaves no way open for constructive
> > > criticism...you cant vote minus $1 (-1 microbuck) if you DONT like
> > > a program, or that program crashes as soon as you run it.
> > > Positive feedback is a good thing, but negative feedback is what
> > > makes control systems work. If it wasnt for
> > > that negative feedback systems all over the world would be
> > > crashing day after day. If the users have a quick and simple
> > > way of letting the writers know about a problem the author would
> > > know rigth away and possibly make changes to correct the problem.
> > >
> > > Also, when the same person votes over and over again for the same
> > > program that inflates its true impact on the community. Perhaps
> > > a limit of one vote per program for the same person.
> > >
> > >
> > > Al
> >
> > Great idea. I've often downloaded programs only to find they crash
> > immediately
> > and/or have serious bugs. I don't know how easy it would be to implement,
> > but
> > its in the spirit of open source and well worth doing IMO.
>
> It is easy to implement. However, it requires one or more moderators,
> depending
> on how many reviews will be posted daily, to correctly associate a review with
> the reviewed progrm, filter out spam, inflationary posts etc.
>
> I'd suggest the review pages to be accessible both as a group (a dedicated
> page full of links on the site) and from each individual file in
> archive(recent section (using the smiley, or lack of it, could be good).
>
> This, plus any suggested attempt to compile dependencies or similar, will
> require work. Some of us will have to share, and the trickiest part could be
> enabling good willing people to access the reviews and avlidate them, or to
> scan through the whole program list and compile the dependency list, or
> whatever else would require such a thorough review.
>
> About dependencies: assume a contrib includes v1.23 of a library. Current
> version is 2.3. Are we supposed to check which is the latest version that
> will be compatible with the program, ie "it requires v1.23, v1.47 will do
> but v2.0 crashes"?
>
> I remember such ideas were floated in the past, like compiling the global
> symbols created by libraries. No criticism, but nothing happened either.
>
> CChris
Sorry Al,
But after reading CChris' post I don't believe having a user comments for
each upload is a good idea. Complaints such as wrong versions, missing
includes and crashes could be addressed right here on this forum. And if
something worked well for you, you could say that too.
No extra programing or moderators needed.
Don Cole
16. Re: Micro-Economy
don cole wrote:
>
> CChris wrote:
> >
> > Jules Davy wrote:
> > >
> > > Al Getz wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps instead of a micro econ there could be a site where people
> > > > can leave short notes about what they think of the program.
> > > > Currently, the micro econ makes a statement about people who
> > > > use the program and like it but leaves no way open for constructive
> > > > criticism...you cant vote minus $1 (-1 microbuck) if you DONT like
> > > > a program, or that program crashes as soon as you run it.
> > > > Positive feedback is a good thing, but negative feedback is what
> > > > makes control systems work. If it wasnt for
> > > > that negative feedback systems all over the world would be
> > > > crashing day after day. If the users have a quick and simple
> > > > way of letting the writers know about a problem the author would
> > > > know rigth away and possibly make changes to correct the problem.
> > > >
> > > > Also, when the same person votes over and over again for the same
> > > > program that inflates its true impact on the community. Perhaps
> > > > a limit of one vote per program for the same person.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Al
> > >
> > > Great idea. I've often downloaded programs only to find they crash
> > > immediately
> > > and/or have serious bugs. I don't know how easy it would be to implement,
> > > but
> > > its in the spirit of open source and well worth doing IMO.
> >
> > It is easy to implement. However, it requires one or more moderators,
> > depending
> > on how many reviews will be posted daily, to correctly associate a review
> > with
> > the reviewed progrm, filter out spam, inflationary posts etc.
> >
> > I'd suggest the review pages to be accessible both as a group (a dedicated
> > page full of links on the site) and from each individual file in
> > archive(recent section (using the smiley, or lack of it, could be good).
> >
> > This, plus any suggested attempt to compile dependencies or similar, will
> > require work. Some of us will have to share, and the trickiest part could be
> > enabling good willing people to access the reviews and avlidate them, or to
> > scan through the whole program list and compile the dependency list, or
> > whatever else would require such a thorough review.
> >
> > About dependencies: assume a contrib includes v1.23 of a library. Current
> > version is 2.3. Are we supposed to check which is the latest version that
> > will be compatible with the program, ie "it requires v1.23, v1.47 will do
> > but v2.0 crashes"?
> >
> > I remember such ideas were floated in the past, like compiling the global
> > symbols created by libraries. No criticism, but nothing happened either.
> >
> > CChris
>
> Sorry Al,
>
> But after reading CChris' post I don't believe having a user comments for
>
>
> each upload is a good idea. Complaints such as wrong versions, missing
>
> includes and crashes could be addressed right here on this forum. And if
>
> something worked well for you, you could say that too.
>
> No extra programing or moderators needed.
>
> Don Cole
This idea of listing all global symbols imported is not mine, and was raised
a few years ago. I still support it anyway, as long as Euphoria doesn't have
a package system. I designed one, but still didn't test it, so I don't know
wneh I'll submit it - not before a couple month I'm afraid.
Do you think mixing the program reviews with all the posts in the forum is a
good idea? I think just the opposite. I thought that anyone going to the
contrib/recent page could acces the reviews of a file he's about to download.
Do you think anyone will go to the forum and do a search for the file name?
The forum is already full of very different sorts of posts, and complaints
regularly crop up about it not being split for easier reading. Note that
I still advocate a common message list somewhere, but ability for everyone
to choose among 3-4 thematic subforums - for instance: bug report, Eu
features/development, technical assistance (Eu or Eu written programs),
others related topics. Just a suggestion.
So yes, it needs some specific programming and moderation.
CChris
