1. Flaming and IRC
I tend to avoid IRC for the same reason I avoid a lot of places on the 'net.
If anyone in this community has an issue with code I've submitted for public
use, I would appreciate such issues be posted here on this list or on the
appropriate SourceForge tracker. I especially do not appreciate hearing about
vague complaints by rumor of side-channel discussions. I'm not going to agree
with everything the community decides, nor is the community always going to
agree with me; but unless comments are directed constructively in the correct
forum, the only result will be someone getting offended, which is most certainly
counterproductive.
As an advertisement, anyone who wants to sign up as an active developer in
Sourceforge for eunet or eugtk is eagerly invited to do so.
2. Re: Flaming and IRC
- Posted by Jeremy Cowgar <jeremy at cow?a?.com>
May 10, 2008
-
Last edited May 11, 2008
Michael J. Sabal wrote:
>
> I tend to avoid IRC for the same reason I avoid a lot of places on the 'net.
>
> If anyone in this community has an issue with code I've submitted for public
> use, I would appreciate such issues be posted here on this list or on the
> appropriate SourceForge tracker. I especially do not appreciate hearing about
> vague complaints by rumor of side-channel discussions. I'm not going to agree
> with everything the community decides, nor is the community always going to
> agree with me; but unless comments are directed constructively in the correct
> forum, the only result will be someone getting offended, which is most
> certainly
> counterproductive.
Mike,
I am trying to very actively promote IRC for the great benefits it has allowing
developers to talk with each other. I was CC'd on the email you are responding to
and I replied to your email and the one reporting the issue telling you about the
situation. I do not wish to discuss it here in public, but there was NO flaming
anywhere.
A lot of peoples problems have been solved in #euphoria now and it's a good
tool. On #euphoria nothing has been said bad about EuNet. Discussions of problems
and possible solutions were discussed as there was an active developer on
#euphoria talking about it.
I still have the conversation in my IRC client that I can scroll back and email
you the entire conversation. I will do that now. Please read it.
--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com
3. Re: Flaming and IRC
- Posted by Kat <KAT12 at coosahs?ne?>
May 10, 2008
-
Last edited May 11, 2008
Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
>
> Michael J. Sabal wrote:
> >
> > I tend to avoid IRC for the same reason I avoid a lot of places on the 'net.
> >
> > If anyone in this community has an issue with code I've submitted for public
> > use, I would appreciate such issues be posted here on this list or on the
> > appropriate SourceForge tracker. I especially do not appreciate hearing
> > about
> > vague complaints by rumor of side-channel discussions. I'm not going to
> > agree
> > with everything the community decides, nor is the community always going to
> > agree with me; but unless comments are directed constructively in the
> > correct
> > forum, the only result will be someone getting offended, which is most
> > certainly
> > counterproductive.
>
> Mike,
>
> I am trying to very actively promote IRC for the great benefits it has
> allowing
> developers to talk with each other. I was CC'd on the email you are responding
> to and I replied to your email and the one reporting the issue telling you
> about
> the situation. I do not wish to discuss it here in public, but there was NO
> flaming anywhere.
The flaming was done against eubot, the same sort of flames which stopped me
from releasing strtok v3 8 years ago and caused me to delete all code for the
last best release of eubot years ago. The same put-offs that got me to stop
writing Eu code at all for several years. The same code that allowed eubot to
make and keep simultaneous tcp connections and data coherent, consistent, and
available at any time, was to be lifted out and placed (with appropriate changes
allowing for protocol) into eunet. Until i was informed it was too much overhead,
and an ugly hack to make windows do *nix stuff. And it had been deleted from
eubot by the flamer, who went on to say his version didn't work as i advertised.
> A lot of peoples problems have been solved in #euphoria now and it's a good
> tool.
I agree.
> On #euphoria nothing has been said bad about EuNet. Discussions of problems
> and possible solutions were discussed as there was an active developer on
> #euphoria
> talking about it.
Not about eunet as it was currently released, as far as i know. Only what i was
doing right then to allow multiple connections. There were no solutions suggested
by the flamer. What i was at the keyboard doing for eunet right then was being
put down. The code didn't make it into a release of eunet by me, i deleted it as
undesireable, ugly, a hack. So Michael Sabal's version of eunet is still "clean"
as the flamer wants it. I have never been considered an "active developer" of
anything in the "eu community", merely a occasional contributor and full time
troublemaker (see: goto).
> I still have the conversation in my IRC client that I can scroll back and
> email
> you the entire conversation. I will do that now. Please read it.
>
> --
> Jeremy Cowgar
> <a href="http://jeremy.cowgar.com">http://jeremy.cowgar.com</a>
Kat
4. Re: Flaming and IRC
- Posted by Michael J. Sabal <m_sabal at ya?o?.com>
May 10, 2008
-
Last edited May 11, 2008
After receiving a couple comments privately, I think I should clarify my
intentions.
If you want to flame me, be an adult and do so directly, not via someone else.
IRC is a tool as any other. Jeremy is trying to establish its use for real
time development and discussion, and I want to go on record saying I fully
support his decision and efforts to make it so. From both a high-level and
nitty-gritty perspective, it may very well be the best place to hash out
one's thoughts on the direction the language, or a specific section of code,
might take. I personally believe, however, (all caveats apply) that the
reporting of specific issues may be better handled through the avenues I
suggested earlier, as the time it takes to compose a longer message gives
the poster greater opportunity to compose his/her thoughts before clicking
"Send." A real-time tool often has the tendency of getting people "shooting
from the hip" as it were, especially when the discussion gets heated. These
are merely my own observations, and all views expressed are not necessarily
those of the management.
Since I personally do not frequent IRC, I am requesting, as I said earlier,
that any bugs, issues, concerns, complaints, comments, suggestions, flames,
etc. related to code I have submitted to the community be posted either
on EuForum or on the appropriate SourceForge tracker. I hope that clears
up any further misunderstanding.
5. Re: Flaming and IRC
Michael J. Sabal wrote:
>
> After receiving a couple comments privately, I think I should clarify my
> intentions.
>
> Jeremy is trying to establish its use for real time development and
> discussion, and I want to go on record saying I fully support his decision
> and efforts to make it so. From both a high-level and nitty-gritty
> perspective, it may very well be the best place to hash out
> one's thoughts on the direction the language, or a specific section
> of code, might take. I personally believe, however, (all caveats apply)
> that the reporting of specific issues may be better handled through
> the avenues I suggested earlier, as the time it takes to compose a
> longer message gives the poster greater opportunity to compose
> his/her thoughts before clicking "Send." A real-time tool often has
> the tendency of getting people "shooting from the hip" as it were,
> especially when the discussion gets heated. These are merely my own
> observations, and all views expressed are not necessarily those of
> the management.
Thank you. And from these same private comments, I learned that Mike was right.
I was searching for the wrong thing in the log. There were a few statements that
were inappropriate. No communication medium is perfect, however, what we all need
to remember is we are all on the same team! We all program in Euphoria and exist
here for the mutual benefit of each other.
Happy Coding!
--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com
6. Re: Flaming and IRC
Since I've never used Euphoria IRC, I never realized that we had a problem with
flaming. I mean, this mailing list has to be about the tamest spot on the
Internet that I hang out.
Well, with the exception of a few individuals who are many years gone from here.
--
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple
system that works.
--John Gall's 15th law of Systemantics.
"Premature optimization is the root of all evil in programming."
--C.A.R. Hoare
j.
7. Re: Flaming and IRC
Jason Gade wrote:
>
> Since I've never used Euphoria IRC, I never realized that we had a problem
> with
> flaming. I mean, this mailing list has to be about the tamest spot on the
> Internet
> that I hang out.
>
I've been there more than 3 weeks, my computer was hardly disconnected during
that time, this is the first incident. I would hardly call it a problem. It was
not nice, but not a problem. Where there are people there will be conflict.
--
Jeremy Cowgar
http://jeremy.cowgar.com
8. Re: Flaming and IRC
Jason Gade wrote:
>
> Since I've never used Euphoria IRC, I never realized that we had a problem
> with
> flaming. I mean, this mailing list has to be about the tamest spot on the
> Internet
> that I hang out.
YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!!!11!11
Oh, "tamest." Sorry.
9. Re: Flaming and IRC
c.k.lester wrote:
>
> Jason Gade wrote:
> >
> > Since I've never used Euphoria IRC, I never realized that we had a problem
> > with
> > flaming. I mean, this mailing list has to be about the tamest spot on the
> > Internet
> > that I hang out.
>
> YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!!!11!11
>
> Oh, "tamest." Sorry.
Heh. Now that's funny.
--
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple
system that works.
--John Gall's 15th law of Systemantics.
"Premature optimization is the root of all evil in programming."
--C.A.R. Hoare
j.
10. Re: Flaming and IRC
> On 10 May 2008 at 18:34, Jason Gade wrote (maybe snipped):
> > Jason Gade wrote:
> > >
> > > Since I've never used Euphoria IRC, I never realized that we had a
> > > problem with flaming. I mean, this mailing list has to be about
> > > the tamest spot on the Internet that I hang out.
> >
> > YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!!!11!11
> >
> > Oh, "tamest." Sorry.
>
> Heh. Now that's funny.
>
Duh, didn't catch the joke...
--
_
_| euler f german
_| sete lagoas, mg, brazil
_| efgerman{AT}gmail{DOT}com
11. Re: Flaming and IRC
Euler German wrote:
>
> > On 10 May 2008 at 18:34, Jason Gade wrote (maybe snipped):
>
> > > Jason Gade wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Since I've never used Euphoria IRC, I never realized that we had a
> > > > problem with flaming. I mean, this mailing list has to be about
> > > > the tamest spot on the Internet that I hang out.
> > >
> > > YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!!!11!11
> > >
> > > Oh, "tamest." Sorry.
> >
> > Heh. Now that's funny.
> >
>
> Duh, didn't catch the joke...
He mistook "tamest" to read "lamest" and was offended by the assertion that
Euphoria IRC was the LAMEST spot on the internet. The phrase "lame" meaning in
this context a place that is used by boring and/or stupid people etc...
--
Derek Parnell
Melbourne, Australia
Skype name: derek.j.parnell
12. Re: Flaming and IRC
Derek Parnell wrote:
> Euler German wrote:
> > Duh, didn't catch the joke...
> He mistook "tamest" to read "lamest"...
I *pretended* to mistake "tamest" to read "lamest..." I was joking around and
just wanted a reason to use ALLCAPS!!!11!!1! :)
13. Re: Flaming and IRC
Derek Parnell wrote:
>
> Euler German wrote:
> >
> > > On 10 May 2008 at 18:34, Jason Gade wrote (maybe snipped):
> >
> > > > Jason Gade wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Since I've never used Euphoria IRC, I never realized that we had a
> > > > > problem with flaming. I mean, this mailing list has to be about
> > > > > the tamest spot on the Internet that I hang out.
> > > >
> > > > YOU SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!!!11!11
> > > >
> > > > Oh, "tamest." Sorry.
> > >
> > > Heh. Now that's funny.
> > >
> >
> > Duh, didn't catch the joke...
>
> He mistook "tamest" to read "lamest" and was offended by the assertion that
> Euphoria IRC was the LAMEST spot on the internet. The phrase "lame" meaning
> in this context a place that is used by boring and/or stupid people etc...
c.k.lester wrote:
>
> Derek Parnell wrote:
> > Euler German wrote:
> > > Duh, didn't catch the joke...
> > He mistook "tamest" to read "lamest"...
>
> I *pretended* to mistake "tamest" to read "lamest..." I was joking around and
> just wanted a reason to use ALLCAPS!!!11!!1! :)
You know they say that if you have to explain a joke it's just not funny any
more.
--
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple
system that works.
--John Gall's 15th law of Systemantics.
"Premature optimization is the root of all evil in programming."
--C.A.R. Hoare
j.
