1. RE: Wish list
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juergen Luethje [mailto:jluethje at gmx.de]
> Subject: Wish list
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> is there a official announcement about some features contained in the
> next release of Euphoria?
No
>Is there a wish list? 
Yes, but not from RDS. I've got one that I add to when anybody mentions
something they'd like to see.
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2. RE: Wish list
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998-
Hi Derek Parnell, you wrote on 7/1/02 9:41:43 PM:
>Yes, but not from RDS. I've got one that I add to when anybody mentions
>something they'd like to see.
Where=3F=3F
Karl Bochert
-------Phoenix-Boundary-07081998---
3. RE: Wish list
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On my PC at home.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kbochert at ix.netcom.com [mailto:kbochert at ix.netcom.com]
> Subject: RE: Wish list
>
>
>
> Hi Derek Parnell, you wrote on 7/1/02 9:41:43 PM:
>
> >Yes, but not from RDS. I've got one that I add to when
> anybody mentions
> >something they'd like to see.
>
> Where??
>
> Karl Bochert
>
>
>
>
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4. RE: Wish list
Well as long as the thread already exists, I might as well post. Not
sure you have caught this yet, but thought I would mention it just in
case.
In your procedure "setIcon", if the control is a Window you do this:
VOID = sendMessage( id, WM_SETICON, 0, handle )
This only changes the small icon (shown in top level windows in the
upper left corner for the system menu). However right below this line
you could also call:
VOID = sendMessage( id, WM_SETICON, 1, handle )
This will set the large icon as well (the one shown when alt-tabbing
between applications). My older version, even though the icon is
changed, shows the system default icon when tabbing to another app.
Just thought I would throw this out as an fyi...
Don
5. RE: Wish list
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juergen Luethje [mailto:jluethje at gmx.de]
> is there a official announcement about some features contained in the
> next release of Euphoria? Is there a wish list?
This is in no way official (but it is an announcement of a release of
Euphoria), but I'm getting ready to release my own hacks at Eu. I've added
the ability to specify a routine to be called in the event of a runtime
error, and the ability to refer to variables using a similar mechanism to
routine_id.
Matt Lewis
6. RE: Wish list
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juergen Luethje [mailto:jluethje at gmx.de]
> Maybe a "stupid" question, but as an amateur, I simply don't know it:
> What are the advantages of having the ability to refer to variables
> using a similar mechanism to routine_id?
The real reason I did it was for debuging purposes. It allows me to have a
routine called when a program crashes that will dump all variables into a
file. Others might really want to pass 'pointers' to variables--there are
advantages and disadvantages to this, and its been discussed here in the
past. You can also create variables on the fly (I know Kat has asked about
this feature), although this is still somewhat buggy (it causes problems
with some subsequent routine_id/variable_id calls).
Matt Lewis
7. RE: Wish list
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Hello Juergen,
I'm too battle-scarred and jaded to expect that RDS will listen to wish-list
discussions, let alone react to them. RDS has its own agenda and doesn't
seek the opinion of others. In the eyes of RDS, Euphoria 2.3 is about as
good as it gets, anything else is icing and thus needs huge justification
for expending effort.
These remarks are of course my own opinion and so might not reflect reality.
And I'm more than willing to be convinced that I'm wrong. I'm hoping that
I'm wrong.
But out of historical curiosity, it might be amusing to air the wishes of
RDS's customers yet again. I'll see about putting my collection of
enhancements into some sort of order before sending it this list.
----------
Derek.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juergen Luethje [mailto:jluethje at gmx.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2002 3:06
> To: EUforum
> Subject: Re: Wish list
>
>
>
> Hello Derek,
>
> thanks for your reply.
> Would you like to put the list on the web?
> Maybe, there can be some interesting discussions about the
> topics on the
> list, maybe Rob will tell us, whether he plans to implement
> this or that?
>
> Best regards,
> Juergen
>
>
> > On my PC at home.
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: kbochert at ix.netcom.com [mailto:kbochert at ix.netcom.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, 1 July 2002 16:04
> >> To: EUforum
> >> Subject: RE: Wish list
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Derek Parnell, you wrote on 7/1/02 9:41:43 PM:
> >>
> >> >Yes, but not from RDS. I've got one that I add to when
> >> anybody mentions
> >> >something they'd like to see.
> >>
> >> Where??
> >>
> >> Karl Bochert
>
>
>
>
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8. RE: Wish list
- Posted by rforno at tutopia.com
Jul 29, 2002
Outlook Express in some way transformed my //s notation into file://s.
----- Original Message -----
From: <rforno at tutopia.com>
Subject: Wish list
>
> EUPHORIA WISH LIST from R. M. Forno
>
> Perhaps not for version 2.4, but for 3.0 or 4.5...
>
> 1) Comments C type: /* ... */ to ease commenting out code blocks.
>
> 2) Enhancements to the trace facility:
> A) Variables should not be shown automatically but only at an user
> request. When exiting a routine, its private variables should
> momentarily disappear, and reappear if entering the routine again.
> B) Allow showing expressions, at least of the form x[i][k],
> z[2..n], etc. Better if all valid expressions were allowed, including
> function calls.
> c) On a more advanced mood, allow entering the editor while in trace
> mode, defining and executing new routines, modifying old ones,
> modifying and creating variables, etc.
>
> 3) Allow executing string variables, that can contain code like "x = y *
p".
>
> 4) Allow defining functions from a string, for example:
> "function foo(integer u) return power(u, u) end function"
>
> 5) A function that returns the amount of available real storage at the
> moment.
> It will ease the task of determining the size of buffers to avoid
> using virtual storage.
>
> 6) A facility to save the status and variables of a program in the middle
of
> execution, also available from the trace screen. This will ease
> debugging; you could advance execution to a certain point, save,
> continue, and in case of failure, restart at the saved point.
>
> 7) Add the following *internal* data types: byte, word (2 bytes), and
> perhaps
> (why not?) bit and nibble (half byte), all in order to save storage.
> Programs should switch from one to other according to needs.
> For example, assume a sequence s s = {}. Then, s &= 1. This can
> be a byte (or bit) type. If then s &= 65, it remains byte. If then
> s &= 3456, it should switch to word (the entire sequence). If then
> s[1] = 12345678, it should switch to the current Euphoria integer type.
> If then s[2] = 89.876, maybe the current scheme could be maintained
> (AFAIK, only this element becomes floating point, and the rest remain
> integer), or else the entire sequence switches to floating.
> Of course, some other mechanisms could be preferred if they are
> more efficient or easier to code. Now, this scheme exists to some
> point, reduced to integer versus floating point. Perhaps my proposal
> is exceedingly complex. Rob surely has something to say about it.
>
> 8) Rob, you know I like APL. There is a feature of APL that I think would
be
> good to implement. +/s would compute the sum of the elements of s,
> in some way to be defined if s is not a simple sequence.
> The same for */s, file://s, /%s (where % is a new notation for
> "remainder"),
> etc.
>
> 10) Add officially to Euphoria the Win32lib, or any replacement for it.
This
> will surely increase the market share for Euphoria.
>
> 9) Excuse me, Kat, but I don't think goto would be useful. I recently
tried
> to translate to Euphoria an algorithm I wrote in BASIC years ago,
> and this was a nightmare, not for the lack of goto (since you
> can simulate it with a status variable), but only to understand how
> the algorithm worked. Of course, I am guilty of not having commented
> it well, but anyway...
>
> Thanks for your patience, Rob. I appreciate and support your efforts to
keep
> Euphoria simple and efficient. I don't think my proposals would in
> any way be contrary to this goal.
>
>
>
>
9. RE: Wish list
- Posted by rforno at tutopia.com
Jul 31, 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Craig <rds at RapidEuphoria.com>
Subject: Re: Wish list
>
> Ricardo Forno writes:
> > 1) Comments C type: /* ... */ to ease commenting out code blocks.
>
> I use F12 in ed to insert a bunch of comments.
> (Removing them is a bit harder.)
> In C, I find it strange that there are two different ways
> of commenting code. /* ... */ was the original way,
> then they added // to be more compatible with C++.
> I can never make up my mind which one to use, so
> I use both, almost at random. I'd rather stick to one
> consistent method.
>
I was not thinking about inserting a block of comments, but only to comment
out a block of code. It is a bit tiresome to insert -- before each line, and
then removing this when you want the block to be in effect again. In ed, I
find no way to do this. I can do it easyly with other editors, but I like
the ed facilities, in spite it departs from the usual standards. By the way,
ed will be a bit better if instead of inserting tabs it inserted spaces (as
it does now with 4 spaces). I know it can be modified to do that, but I am
somewhat lazy 
.Why not admit both commenting styles, especially
considering that the current comment style is the only "sentence" that ends
at a new line?
> > 2) Enhancements to the trace facility:
> > A) Variables should not be shown automatically but only at an user
> > request.
>
> Why? What harm does it do to show a few variables on the screen
> automatically?
Please see my answer to Derek on this and some other subjects.
>
> > B) Allow showing expressions, at least of the form x[i][k],
> > z[2..n], etc.
>
> Yes, I'll probably do that in the next release.
>
> > Better if all valid expressions were allowed, including
> > function calls.
>
> True, but unfortunately it's extremely difficult to implement.
>
> > c) On a more advanced mood, allow entering the editor while in trace
> > mode, defining and executing new routines, modifying old ones,
> > modifying and creating variables, etc.
>
> That's hard too.
>
> > 3) Allow executing string variables, that can
> > contain code like "x = y * p".
> > 4) Allow defining functions from a string, for example:
> > "function foo(integer u) return power(u, u) end function"
>
> I don't like any feature that requires code or variables to be constructed
> at run-time and executed. I used this in APL, and found it
> was an overly-powerful solution searching desperately for a problem.
> Rarely useful in practice. Theoretically it buys you nothing
> in terms of the algorithms you can implement.
> It's also extremely hard to implement in the current interpreter
> without starting from scratch. Any translated to C code that
> used this feature would need to carry around a
> complete copy of the interpreter.
It may be, but when I worked with APL I found this feature to be very
helpful in many cases, and I am not referring to scientific tasks only, but
mainly to commercial ones. Anyway, I understand that it should be difficult
to implement.
>
> > 5) A function that returns the amount of available real storage at the
> > moment.
> > It will ease the task of determining the size of buffers to avoid
> > using virtual storage.
>
> You could write a routine that calls allocate() with progressively
> smaller sizes until it doesn't get a 0 returned, although that
> wouldn't exclude virtual storage.
>
> You might want to know the total free space, or you might want
> to know the largest contiguous block of storage that's available.
>
> You'd also need to know how much space Euphoria variables
> consume. I don't like to make the implementation details
> of Euphoria's internal representation so explicit.
> In most Euphoria programming you shouldn't have to think
> in terms of bits, bytes and nibbles.
>
> I might consider doing something,
> but now that I have 256Mb RAM,
> I don't expect to run out of memory very often.
>
> > 6) A facility to save the status and variables
> > of a program in the middle of
> > execution, also available from the trace screen. This will ease
> > debugging; you could advance execution to a certain point, save,
> > continue, and in case of failure, restart at the saved point.
>
> Do you want me to undo all the changes that you've made to files?
> Set the screen back the way it was? Open and close windows,
> undo the side effects of .dll routines that you've called,
> memory that you've overwritten, etc.?
Maybe not as a first approach. Only as a debugging help with intricate
programs that do not have side effects, for example.
>
> > 7) Add the following *internal* data types: byte, word (2 bytes), and
> > perhaps (why not?) bit and nibble (half byte), all in
> > order to save storage.
> > Programs should switch from one to other according to needs.
> > For example, assume a sequence s s = {}. Then, s &= 1. This can
> > be a byte (or bit) type. If then s &= 65, it remains byte. If then
> > s &= 3456, it should switch to word (the entire sequence). If then
> > s[1] = 12345678, it should switch to the current Euphoria integer type.
> > If then s[2] = 89.876, maybe the current scheme could be maintained
> > (AFAIK, only this element becomes floating point, and the rest remain
> > integer), or else the entire sequence switches to floating.
>
> You've just described exactly the way APL does things.
> The problem with having n internal data types, is that you
> have to handle n-squared cases for every binary operation
> in the interpreter (or translator). This would be slow, and would
> bloat the interpreter. It would also increase the number of bugs
> in the interpreter with all those extra cases to test.
>
I know. I am not an expert C programmer, but in Assembly you could do it
with not much overhead by means of a jump table, and then "promote" the
lesser capacity item to the other one, if they were different, before
operating on them. This is, of course, a simplification to the whole
problem. Just a thought...
> > 8) Rob, you know I like APL. There is a
> > feature of APL that I think would be
> > good to implement. +/s would compute the sum of the elements of s,
> > in some way to be defined if s is not a simple sequence.
> > The same for */s, file://s, /%s (where % is a new notation for
> > "remainder"), etc.
>
> Just use a simple for-loop or a subroutine.
> Why introduce a fancy new concept?
> I admit +/ etc. was useful in APL,
> but APL has different, very rectangular data structures.
>
> > 10) Add officially to Euphoria the Win32lib,
> > or any replacement for it. This
> > will surely increase the market share for Euphoria.
>
> Derek is actively working on Win32Lib,
> so any bundled version would quickly become obsolete.
> Win32Lib also has different copyright restrictions.
> Things would get confusing. I'd like to keep my work separate,
> especially since I'm charging money for it.
>
> Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
>
>
>
>
10. RE: Wish list
On 31 Jul 2002, at 14:48, rforno at tutopia.com wrote:
> I was not thinking about inserting a block of comments, but only to
> comment out a block of code. It is a bit tiresome to insert -- before
> each line, and then removing this when you want the block to be in
> effect again. In ed, I find no way to do this. I can do it easyly with
> other editors, but I like the ed facilities, in spite it departs from
> the usual standards. By the way, ed will be a bit better if instead of
> inserting tabs it inserted spaces (as it does now with 4 spaces). I know
> it can be modified to do that, but I am somewhat lazy .Why not admit
> both commenting styles, especially considering that the current comment
> style is the only "sentence" that ends at a new line?
>
Me too. ;) I like ed but it lacks several tools which doesn't
contribute to make job easier. I tried ConTEXT, Code-Genie, TSE, etc.,
among many others. They're all very good but lacks a thing or another
that I think would be important. Finally, I made up my mind with
EditPad Pro. I used EditPad Lite (free) for more than 6 years until the
first PRO tryout. Things like block commenting is one of those nice
tools I was talking about... There are many others...
The *sad* note is that EditPad Pro is a commercial product, sad but
true. ;)
-- Euler
