1. greed corner
- Posted by "BABOR, JIRI" <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ> Jan 21, 1998
- 586 views
On a particularly bad day, like today, I feel like asking Robert to create a special section on his Official Euphoria Page: the greed corner. This is not a declaration of war, possibly just a cultural difference, but I think all those items with the tag 'no source, but worth a look' deserve a more appropriate line: 'wants to show off, but does not want to share'. Jiri
2. Re: greed corner
- Posted by Cameron Kaiser <spectre at WWW2.BUOY.COM> Jan 20, 1998
- 583 views
> > This is not a declaration of war, possibly just a cultural difference, > but I think all those items with the tag 'no source, but worth a > look' deserve a more appropriate line: 'wants to show off, but does > not want to share'. Jiri > Well, I wouldn't be so blatant, but I agree that if someone wants to advertise their new algorithm, they should include source. Else, if they just want to make a game or some other demo for commercial purposes, they should say that too -- executables sans source aren't any good for learning, and only discourage people who feel hopelessly behind. -- Cameron Kaiser http://www.sserv.com/ spectre at sserv.com -- An all new Spectre Server! Visit it now: http://www.sserv.com/
3. Re: greed corner
- Posted by Faerun McLeam <photek.maven.gov at JUNO.COM> Jan 20, 1998
- 556 views
- Last edited Jan 21, 1998
PHoTeK MaVeN 1000010000110 On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:41:33 +1200 "BABOR, JIRI" <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ> writes: >---------------------- Information from the mail header >----------------------- >Sender: Euphoria Programming for MS-DOS ><EUPHORIA at MIAMIU.ACS.MUOHIO.EDU> >Poster: "BABOR, JIRI" <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ> >Subject: greed corner >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >On a particularly bad day, like today, I feel like asking Robert to >create a special section on his Official Euphoria Page: the greed >corner. > >This is not a declaration of war, possibly just a cultural difference, >but I think all those items with the tag 'no source, but worth a >look' deserve a more appropriate line: 'wants to show off, but does >not want to share'. Jiri > I for one agree totally, the whole reason I started programming in Euphoria is because it was a think tank.... I guess some like thier minds bottled instead of tanked... it is selfish to not provide source for a program being placed in public domain, and also it is a show of insecurity and childishness.. And that's all I got to say about that, PHoTeK
4. Re: greed corner
- Posted by Michael Packard <lgp at EXO.COM> Jan 20, 1998
- 570 views
- Last edited Jan 21, 1998
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Faerun McLeam wrote: > I for one agree totally, the whole reason I started programming > in Euphoria is because it was a think tank.... I guess some like thier > minds bottled instead of tanked... it is selfish to not provide source > for a program being placed in public domain, and also it is a show of > insecurity and childishness.. > And that's all I got to say > about that, > PHoTeK > I think it's premature to ask for source to something that is a DEMO of an engine that is INCOMPLETE. It's not an issue of childishness or insecurity for them to want to hold off until they get the bugs out, add the features they want and clean up the code. I'm glad when people post executables of works in progress. I don't wanna futz with code that doesn't work completely yet and hasn't been adaquately documented to be of any use. More than likely they'll change things around as they optimize the code anyway, so it's better to wait. It's cool they wanna show us anything before it's ready. I'm sure if you asked them they'd tell you what they're doing. Heck even I have been known to share techniques and routines from time to time. relax. Michael Packard Lord Generic Productions lgp at exo.com http://exo.com/~lgp/euphoria
5. Re: greed corner
- Posted by "Graeme." <hmi at POWERUP.COM.AU> Jan 21, 1998
- 553 views
At 09:41 21/01/98 +1200, Jiri wrote: >On a particularly bad day, like today, ... blah blah blah 22:58 Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:58:15 Faerun McLeam wrote it is selfish to not provide source for a program being placed in public domain, and also it is a show of insecurity and childishness.. Bad day huh? What did you do today? I'm a builders' labourer, mate. Today I got up at 5:30am and spent 6 hours sweating my guts out in the blinding Queensland summer, laying a concrete slab. After that I spent 5 hours fixing up a rotten fence in someone's back yard. I arrived home today as I usually do, covered in dirt, blisters, cuts insect bites, and dragged myself up the stairs to sit in front of my computer and keep working. Why? Because I have this fantasy that one day I will write some software that someone will pay money for before my back goes and I end up a crippled old man. Before you guys start making your holier-than-thou blanket statements about how everyone who wears red socks is Santa- Claus, perhaps you should think about what the words you speak may mean in the context of someone else's life. I'm sure the people you're imagining are out there, but I don't think they're the majority. Why don't you send Rob Craig a note telling him he's greedy, insecure and childish for not releasing the source for the EU interpreter? Graeme Burke. 'I dis-agree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it.' - or something like that.
6. Re: greed corner
- Posted by "BABOR, JIRI" <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ> Jan 22, 1998
- 552 views
Graeme wrote: >I'm a builders' labourer, mate. ... blah blah blah I said, I did not want to start a flame war over this, it was meant as a gentle }-) prod, but you obviously stayed for far too long in the magnificent Qeensland sun yesterday. (Btw, I did a fair share of ditch digging and concrete smashing in my time, so I sympathize, but I definitely do not feel sorry for you.) Several people said it already, and probably better, this group is all about sharing, mutual help. I do not like commercials on television, on the radio, on the side of the road, and hate them even more in my mail. Alternatively, if the guys are insecure enough and do not want to release the work in progress, it is a pity too. I find it much more fascinating and illuminating to follow evolution of an idea, than to try to analyze a final, slick product. And, Graeme, I hope all your dreams and fantasies come true. Jiri
7. Re: greed corner
- Posted by Greg Harris <blackdog at CDC.NET> Jan 21, 1998
- 556 views
- Last edited Jan 22, 1998
>Several people said it already, and probably better, this group is all >about sharing, mutual help. I do not like commercials on television, >on the radio, on the side of the road, and hate them even more in my >mail. Alternatively, if the guys are insecure enough and do not want >to release the work in progress, it is a pity too. I find it much >more fascinating and illuminating to follow evolution of an idea, than >to try to analyze a final, slick product. Warning on soap box (if you don't want to read it delete it now): I find it amazing that we have been "blasted" for simply doing what this group is really about - Programming in Euphoria. It is also a place to discuss ideas and swap programming advice. Whether one programs in Euphoria for a hobby or as a professional programmer is really immaterial. We posted our work in progress not to show us off, but to show off Euphoria. I can remember a thread that was started here a while back that said that Euphoria could not handle 3D Graphics. Well it can. All we wanted to do was show off the capabilites of Euphoria. Are new programmers going to want to learn a langauge that can only handle flat graphics and text? I don't think so. Why not show them another good reason to program in Euphoria. As to commercials? I didn't mention to anyone to buy anything. That what a commercial is. It tempts you you buy something. We just gave everybody a chance to look at our work-in-progress. No one twisted anybody's arm to download it. As to the source code, it belongs solely to the members of Hollow Horse Software. We can do with it want we want. However, we have every intention in releasing the engine when it is finished with full source code. This has been our intention from the start. This technology is "old" and is well published on the net and in publicly available books. We only want to release quality software to the general public. We do not want to release half finished code that might contain bugs or worse. The engine is still in the rough "alpha" stages and is subject to change. The whole raycaster procedure is being converted to assembly for speed which will take some time. Objects still have to be implemented. Screen sizing is going to be added. I have even thought about maybe implementing moving backgrounds if I can get the fps up to a reasonable level. I'm not about to release the source code this early. Enough said. Off soap box. Greg Harris Hollow Horse Software
8. Re: greed corner
- Posted by Faerun McLeam <photek.maven.gov at JUNO.COM> Jan 21, 1998
- 567 views
PHoTeK MaVeN 1000010000110 On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:31:16 +1100 "Graeme." <hmi at POWERUP.COM.AU> writes: > >Bad day huh? > >What did you do today? > > >Why? Because I have this fantasy that one day I will write >some software that someone will pay money for before my back >goes and I end up a crippled old man. That isn't public domain then, and if they gave code we could help them... if they wanted or atleast give suggestions... >Why don't you send Rob Craig a note telling him he's greedy, >insecure and childish for not releasing the source for the >EU interpreter? Because that isn't public domain, and it's his bread and butter... but while I'm at it... hey robert, could you email me with some txt on tips to build something as complex as a interpreter... thanxx.. > >Graeme Burke. > >'I dis-agree with what you say but will defend to the death >your right to say it.' - or something like that. > Thanx, I apreciate your honesty.
9. Re: greed corner
- Posted by Robert Craig <rds at EMAIL.MSN.COM> Jan 22, 1998
- 572 views
Faerun McLeam writes: > ... but while I'm at it... hey robert, could you email me with some > txt on tips to build something as complex as a interpreter... thanxx.. I would enjoy writing (in Euphoria) an interpreter for a tiny "toy" language, just as an educational demo. Alas, I find myself increasingly pinned down on work within ex.exe and exw.exe (I hate C!), with less time for writing Euphoria programs. However, if we are lucky, I believe David Cuny was starting to write a Basic interpreter in Euphoria. (He already did a Basic to Euphoria *translator*). If we are nice to him, he might even contribute the source. As for the source to ex.exe/exw.exe, I would be willing to consider making it available someday, if I thought it would help the growth of Euphoria and wouldn't cut off my income. For example, I might be willing to make the "core" language source available (possibly for a fee), so other people could port it to Unix, Mac etc. I might strip out the highly DOS and Windows-specific code, so I wouldn't be giving away the DOS/Windows platforms. BTW, Netscape announced today that their browser will now be free (not shareware) and they will make the source available for free as well. Of course they make most of their money in other ways. Regards, Rob Craig Rapid Deployment Software
10. Re: greed corner
- Posted by Irv Mullins <mountains at MINDSPRING.COM> Jan 23, 1998
- 583 views
At 04:52 PM 1/22/98 -0500, you wrote: <snip> >As for the source to ex.exe/exw.exe, I would be willing to consider >making it available someday, if I thought it would help the >growth of Euphoria and wouldn't cut off my income. For example, >I might be willing to make the "core" language source available >(possibly for a fee), so other people could port it to Unix, Mac >etc. I might strip out the highly DOS and Windows-specific code, >so I wouldn't be giving away the DOS/Windows platforms. > An alternate idea: More people, including the folks at RDS, might benefit if you could provide a version of Euphoria which could "hook" to operating system calls. Keep the inner workings secret, so they don't get trashed by our feeble attempts to "improve" it, but still allow porting to lots of different platforms. People who use Macs have few options for an inexpensive programming language, and Linux folks pretty much have to use C <gak> or perl, etc. none of which can claim simplicity, much less safety. There are some other platforms out there, also, although we don't hear much about them in our press (not enough ad revenue, I guess). I run Linux on my pc, but I just have no interest in spending six months learning C just to write a (buggy) hello world prog. Euphoria I _would_ use. I would not surprise me if people (like the nice folks on this list) would develop the low-level interface code for their favorite os and either contribute it to the public domain or sell it for a modest price. >BTW, Netscape announced today that their browser will now be >free (not shareware) and they will make the source available for >free.... Hmm... I can't wait for my chance to wade thru half a million lines of code! Irv -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tired of Nutscope and Internet Exploder? For the BEST web browser, go to http://www.operasoftware.com ------------ a free plug for something really good ----------------------