1. off topic : WinLinux
I am proudly announcing my 87th failure to penetrate the Linux
universe. Well, to tell the truth, I lost the count long time ago.
Mercifully I don't remember where I read about WinLinux universal
remedy, a sure fire thing, a piece of cake. I spent all Sunday
downloading it, all 145 Mbytes. I should have known better.
First of all, it did not recognize my Cirrus Logic card, the most
common, cheap alternative around here two years ago. It offered me a
*16 color* generic driver instead. Ok, great, I thought, I can always
fire my old Amiga in the basement, if I want to see a rainbow. It did
not notice my cdrom either. Not a problem, finally I found some use
for the retired 486 across the room.
The rest was plain sailing, as promised. It took only ten minutes and
about 800 Mbytes of space, and it even installed a pretty icon on my
desktop.
Then I double clicked it and the whole bloody thing disappeared into a
black hole...
Deep depression is setting in fast, I am almost suicidal. All I need
to tip me right over is reassurance I am the only twit around who is
denied entry into this paradise.
jiri
2. Re: off topic : WinLinux
If you feel up to downloading a 40mb file, I can put doslinux up
somewhere, with everything you need to make it pretty (X, KDE, all the
libs, etc.). I can also try to help you with the installation process.
No guaruntees everything'll work, though =)
Regards,
Greg
Jiri Babor wrote:
> I am proudly announcing my 87th failure to penetrate the Linux
> universe. Well, to tell the truth, I lost the count long time ago.
>
> Mercifully I don't remember where I read about WinLinux universal
> remedy, a sure fire thing, a piece of cake. I spent all Sunday
> downloading it, all 145 Mbytes. I should have known better.
>
> First of all, it did not recognize my Cirrus Logic card, the most
> common, cheap alternative around here two years ago. It offered me a
> *16 color* generic driver instead. Ok, great, I thought, I can always
> fire my old Amiga in the basement, if I want to see a rainbow. It did
> not notice my cdrom either. Not a problem, finally I found some use
> for the retired 486 across the room.
>
> The rest was plain sailing, as promised. It took only ten minutes and
> about 800 Mbytes of space, and it even installed a pretty icon on my
> desktop.
>
> Then I double clicked it and the whole bloody thing disappeared into a
> black hole...
>
> Deep depression is setting in fast, I am almost suicidal. All I need
> to tip me right over is reassurance I am the only twit around who is
> denied entry into this paradise.
>
> jiri
3. Re: off topic : WinLinux
You won't find that kind of reassurance from me. I have made
2 or 3 vain attempts to move the Linux platform.
Miserable battle that appeared to do nothing but make me as
suicidal as you sound.
Lucius L. Hilley III
lhilley at cdc.net
+----------+--------------+--------------+
| Hollow | ICQ: 9638898 | AIM: LLHIII |
| Horse +--------------+--------------+
| Software | http://www.cdc.net/~lhilley |
+----------+-----------------------------+
> ---------------------- Information from the mail
header -----------------------
> Sender: Euphoria Programming for MS-DOS
<EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
> Poster: Jiri Babor <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ>
> Subject: off topic : WinLinux
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> I am proudly announcing my 87th failure to penetrate the Linux
> universe. Well, to tell the truth, I lost the count long time ago.
>
> Mercifully I don't remember where I read about WinLinux universal
> remedy, a sure fire thing, a piece of cake. I spent all Sunday
> downloading it, all 145 Mbytes. I should have known better.
>
> First of all, it did not recognize my Cirrus Logic card, the most
> common, cheap alternative around here two years ago. It offered me a
> *16 color* generic driver instead. Ok, great, I thought, I can always
> fire my old Amiga in the basement, if I want to see a rainbow. It did
> not notice my cdrom either. Not a problem, finally I found some use
> for the retired 486 across the room.
>
> The rest was plain sailing, as promised. It took only ten minutes and
> about 800 Mbytes of space, and it even installed a pretty icon on my
> desktop.
>
> Then I double clicked it and the whole bloody thing disappeared into a
> black hole...
>
> Deep depression is setting in fast, I am almost suicidal. All I need
> to tip me right over is reassurance I am the only twit around who is
> denied entry into this paradise.
>
> jiri
>
4. Re: off topic : WinLinux
- Posted by JJProg at CYBERBURY.NET
Nov 22, 1999
EU>I am proudly announcing my 87th failure to penetrate the Linux
EU>universe. Well, to tell the truth, I lost the count long time ago.
EU>Mercifully I don't remember where I read about WinLinux universal
EU>remedy, a sure fire thing, a piece of cake. I spent all Sunday
EU>downloading it, all 145 Mbytes. I should have known better.
EU>First of all, it did not recognize my Cirrus Logic card, the most
EU>common, cheap alternative around here two years ago. It offered me a
EU>*16 color* generic driver instead. Ok, great, I thought, I can always
EU>fire my old Amiga in the basement, if I want to see a rainbow. It did
EU>not notice my cdrom either. Not a problem, finally I found some use
EU>for the retired 486 across the room.
EU>The rest was plain sailing, as promised. It took only ten minutes and
EU>about 800 Mbytes of space, and it even installed a pretty icon on my
EU>desktop.
EU>Then I double clicked it and the whole bloody thing disappeared into a
EU>black hole...
EU>Deep depression is setting in fast, I am almost suicidal. All I need
EU>to tip me right over is reassurance I am the only twit around who is
EU>denied entry into this paradise.
EU>jiri
You can select your graphics card and hit the Force Settings button to
select your graphics card. Without the right graphics card, it may hang
while starting X-Windows (in this case, the window manager is KDE). You
could try finding the right graphis setting, or you can make it boot
into the command line until you can fix it.
To make it boot into the command line, edit the etc\inittab file in your
WinLinux directory (c:\linux is the default). The first line that isn't
blank or a comment reads something like this:
id:3:initdefault:
Change the 4 to a 3 (4 is the standard Multiuser X-Windows runlevel, 3
is the standard multiuser text mode runlevel), and start WinLinux. You
should be able to log-in as root and try to figure out how to set-up
your graphics card (this is a fairly easy, but tedious process - e-mail
me if you want more information on this).
I used WinLinux for a while on my laptop, and it worked quite nicely. I
like to play around with the advanced features, so I rebuilt the kernel
a couple times, set-up my network card etc. Then I tried to use Samba,
and it got really messed-up and stopped working (it hung after Starting
Samba..., so I moved the Samba start-up file, which I think messed up
the UMSDOS file information).
WinLinux is a great distribution for experimenting with Linux. It
usually seems to get linux up and running very quickly and easily.
Unfortunately, I had a lot of problems getting software to run on it. I
am using RedHat 6.0 my two other linux machines, and I couldn't get any
software I had to run on WinLinux. I was especially disappointed that
Euphoria and WordPerfect 8 wouldn't run.
Jeffrey Fielding
JJProg at cyberbury.net
http://members.tripod.com/~JJProg/
5. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Jiri Babor wrote:
> Deep depression is setting in fast, I am almost suicidal.
> All I need to tip me right over is reassurance I am the
> only twit around who is denied entry into this paradise.
I notice that WinLinux, like Linux-Mandrake, is for Pentium-class machines
only. Did I read that you put it on a 486?
The Cirrus Logic card should be on the list. If the card was not
autodetected, you should have at least been given an option to find the card
from a list of alternatives.
The horror stories I could tell about MY installs...
-- David Cuny
6. Re: off topic : WinLinux
----- Original Message -----
From: Jiri Babor <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ>
To: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 4:40 PM
Subject: off topic : WinLinux
> I am proudly announcing my 87th failure to penetrate the Linux
> universe. Well, to tell the truth, I lost the count long time ago.
>
> Mercifully I don't remember where I read about WinLinux universal
> remedy, a sure fire thing, a piece of cake. I spent all Sunday
> downloading it, all 145 Mbytes. I should have known better.
>
> First of all, it did not recognize my Cirrus Logic card, the most
> common, cheap alternative around here two years ago. It offered me a
> *16 color* generic driver instead. Ok, great, I thought, I can always
> fire my old Amiga in the basement, if I want to see a rainbow. It did
> not notice my cdrom either. Not a problem, finally I found some use
> for the retired 486 across the room.
>
> The rest was plain sailing, as promised. It took only ten minutes and
> about 800 Mbytes of space, and it even installed a pretty icon on my
> desktop.
>
> Then I double clicked it and the whole bloody thing disappeared into a
> black hole...
>
> Deep depression is setting in fast, I am almost suicidal. All I need
> to tip me right over is reassurance I am the only twit around who is
> denied entry into this paradise.
>
> jiri
/me raises her hand too,, and raises a few other people's for them.
Linux is *not* userfriendly, it requires too much twiddling, and there
aren't enough apps to make the fight worthwhile to me.
Kat
7. Re: off topic : WinLinux
----- Original Message -----
From: Jiri Babor <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ>
To: <EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 1999 5:40 PM
Subject: off topic : WinLinux
> I am proudly announcing my 87th failure to penetrate the Linux
> universe. Well, to tell the truth, I lost the count long time ago.
Jiri:
Have you forgotten all the hassles we all went thru to get DOS,
and later, Windows running? Weird drivers that had to be installed
before a hard drive would work - drivers to get a sound card running,
to access upper memory, etc. etc.....?
Linux is much the same, except that instead of learning it over a period of
several years, we have to grasp it all at once. And since Linux does a lot
more than DOS, there's that much more to grasp.
I think you would find it much easier if you got a Linux distribution which
comes with an installation manual. SuSE, for instance, comes with a nice,
understandable book that covers setup and operation in detail. As far as I
can tell from a quick look at their website, SuSE works with Cirrus Logic
cards.
You may want to do a search for your particular model at http://www.suse.com
to be sure.
Packages from SuSE and Caldera, among others, retail for $25 - $35 in this
area.
That's a lot to pay for "free" software, but if your time is worth more than
50 cents an hour, you'll come out ahead by buying the package - also, the
half-dozen CD's come in handy when you want to re-load Linux, or are ready
to try out some of the thousands of programs on those CD's.
Regards,
Irv
8. Re: off topic : WinLinux
- Posted by RedWordSmith <redwordsmith at NIC.DREAMHOST.COM>
Nov 22, 1999
-
Last edited Nov 23, 1999
Kat wrote:
> /me raises her hand too,, and raises a few other people's for them.
>
> Linux is *not* userfriendly, it requires too much twiddling, and there
> aren't enough apps to make the fight worthwhile to me.
>
> Kat
If you will permit me to give an opposing view.
I am a _new_ Linux user, and not a "serious" one at that. Still, I would like
to provide an opposing view. My personal Linux experience with Col 1.3 and
Red Hat 6.1 (box) has been more or less pleasant (besides my current problem,
where I have learned that a graphical login and playing around with X settings
without a boot disk is not very smart (oops... if anyone should happen to know
a way out of this current conundrum, please let me know.)) I ended up going
with Linux for several reasons. One reason was curiosity, I'd like to see
what it can do. Another is to check out and play with apps that are strictly
Linux: GIMP, INN, Apache... and so on. I also believe that, as it matures,
Linux will become more mainstream. 6 months ago, I hadn't heard about it. 2
weeks ago, a copy of Red Hat 5.2 was in the bargain bin at Wal*Mart. This
morning, Mandrake (Macmillan version - latest) was sitting right below Win98
on the W*M selves. That's visible progress to me. I don't want to be left
behind. Yet another was price. At $30 a pop, I can afford to get full
Linux-box sets up to 3 or 4 times a year. Windows is too expensive. My old
PB CDeluxe still has a DOS/Win3.11 combo on it.
There are obviously quite a few advocacy issues involved on both sides, so I
will not go and give a definite answer as to how good Linux is or is not. I
will say however, to get a compatible modem *before* you get Linux. I'm
trying to do it the other way around, but apparently only 3,000 Linux
compatible modems have been created since 1734 (BC), not including those new
PCI modems at Wal*Mart that have "Linux Compatible" right on the front. (Said
strictly tongue in cheek)
--
"Only when no one replies to spam will it go away."
If someone tries to sell you something via
unsolicited email, don't buy it.
See http://www.spamcop.net/ and fight back
Nic (RedWord)Smith
9. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Greg Phillips wrote:
> If you feel up to downloading a 40mb file, I can put doslinux up
> somewhere, with everything you need to make it pretty (X, KDE, all
> the libs, etc.). I can also try to help you with the installation
> process. No guaruntees everything'll work, though =)
You name your place, you set your time, I'll be there. Thanks, Greg!
David Cuny wrote:
> I notice that WinLinux, like Linux-Mandrake, is for Pentium-class
> machines only. Did I read that you put it on a 486?
>
> The Cirrus Logic card should be on the list. If the card was not
> autodetected, you should have at least been given an option to find
> the card from a list of alternatives.
>
> The horror stories I could tell about MY installs...
My poor grasp of English is evident here again: I meant I could use my
old 486 to read CDs while my PII machine was 'disabled' by Linux. My
Cirrus Logic card (GD or GA 546X, from memory - I am at work at the
moment) is not on their list. So I tried a couple that looked close
enough, as well as the 16 color default, but nothing worked.
Jeffrey Fielding wrote:
> WinLinux is a great distribution for experimenting with Linux. It
> usually seems to get linux up and running very quickly and easily.
> Unfortunately, I had a lot of problems getting software to run on it. I
> am using RedHat 6.0 my two other linux machines, and I couldn't get any
> software I had to run on WinLinux. I was especially disappointed that
> Euphoria and WordPerfect 8 wouldn't run.
Over the last three years I experimented with Slackware, Debian and
Red Hat. More recently I tried OpenLinux, SuSE, dosLinux, Mandrake,
and probably a couple of others, I have already forgotten. Boy, I am
unlucky! I am sick of experimenting. I want a decent, easy and
preferably customizable front, with a fast browser, some sort of
graphics utility, emacs and a handful of compilers. Is that too much
to ask? And if it can't run Euphoria, I might just as well forget it.
Irv Mullins chipped in with:
> Have you forgotten all the hassles we all went thru to get DOS, and
> later, Windows running? Weird drivers that had to be installed before
> a hard drive would work - drivers to get a sound card running, to
> access upper memory, etc. etc.....?
Yeah, but that was ten, twenty years ago. We are supposed to be in the
era of 'Plug-and-Play' and all sorts of 'Wizards'.
> Linux is much the same, except that instead of learning it over a
> period of several years, we have to grasp it all at once. And since
> Linux does a lot more than DOS, there's that much more to grasp.
Like me, Linux is not exactly a new born baby. I do not mind learning
or grasping anything, if I really need it. But I can't stand, not any
more, going through half-a-dozen scripts half-a-dozen times just to
set up a lousy bit of hardware.
And Lucius & Kat: Thanks, guys, you probably saved my life!
jiri
10. Re: off topic : WinLinux
- Posted by Irv Mullins <irv at ELLIJAY.COM>
Nov 22, 1999
-
Last edited Nov 23, 1999
RedWordSmith wrote:
> I am a _new_ Linux user, and not a "serious" one at that. Still, I would
like
> to provide an opposing view. My personal Linux experience with Col 1.3
and
> Red Hat 6.1 (box) has been more or less pleasant (besides my current
problem,
> where I have learned that a graphical login and playing around with X
settings
> without a boot disk is not very smart (oops... if anyone should happen to
know
> a way out of this current conundrum, please let me know.))
Sure: if you are dual booting win and linux, just type linux init S at the
prompt.
(This is using lilo, I think the same thing works if you are booting via
loadlin)
What this does is put the computer into supervisory mode, (you'll need to
give
the root password) and presents a text-mode prompt. From there, you can edit
or replace the files you messed up.
Regards,
Irv
11. Re: off topic : WinLinux
- Posted by Irv Mullins <irv at ELLIJAY.COM>
Nov 22, 1999
-
Last edited Nov 23, 1999
From: Jiri Babor <J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ>
> Like me, Linux is not exactly a new born baby. I do not mind learning
> or grasping anything, if I really need it. But I can't stand, not any
> more, going through half-a-dozen scripts half-a-dozen times just to
> set up a lousy bit of hardware.
Patient: It hurts when I do this.
Doctor: Then don't do that.
That'll be $50.00, please.
12. Re: off topic : WinLinux
- Posted by Everett Williams <rett at GVTC.COM>
Nov 22, 1999
-
Last edited Nov 23, 1999
Never despair, there is always another twit as baffled as thee. I have tried
three different distributions, and had no problems at all until I attempt to
reboot into Linux...I must have a cousin of your black hole. This has been
over two different machines. I did get one good boot into Linux and played
around for a while, but when I went through the configurator to try to
really set up "my" equipment, it decided to keep that secret to itself. No
successful boots. Maybe we need to send our machines to Ralf, he isn't
mired in all our years of experience. It'll probably take him about 5 minutes.
Everett L.(Rett) Williams
rett at gvtc.com
13. Re: off topic : WinLinux
- Posted by nieuwen at XS4ALL.NL
Nov 23, 1999
> Patient: It hurts when I do this.
> Doctor: Then don't do that.
> That'll be $50.00, please.
That's cheap coming from you Irv.
It applies to all your wining about MS Windhoos as well.
You know for a fact, that either choice will have consequences.
Wether your like MS-Windhoos or not, you will need it for App X and App Y and
the very
same is true for Linux, so Jiri has all the right to wine about your over
idealized OS.
Ralf Nieuwenhuijsen
[[ Email ]]
nieuwen at xs4all.nl
ralf_n at email.com
[[ I-Seek-You ]]
UIN: 9389920
[[ The Elevator ]]
http://www.xs4all.nl/~nieuwen
Download NeoPlanet at http://www.neoplanet.com
14. Re: off topic : WinLinux
- Posted by Grape_ Vine_ <g__vine at HOTMAIL.COM>
Nov 22, 1999
-
Last edited Nov 23, 1999
I know this was not directed at me. I tried RedHat linux about 8 months
ago...With very little sucsess...If you could help me i would be very
greatfull.
>If you feel up to downloading a 40mb file, I can put doslinux up
>somewhere, with everything you need to make it pretty (X, KDE, all the
>libs, etc.). I can also try to help you with the installation process.
>No guaruntees everything'll work, though =)
>
>Regards,
>Greg
>
>Jiri Babor wrote:
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
15. Re: off topic : WinLinux
- Posted by Grape_ Vine_ <g__vine at HOTMAIL.COM>
Nov 22, 1999
-
Last edited Nov 23, 1999
Jiri Babor said
<snip>
>Deep depression is setting in fast, I am almost suicidal. All I need
>to tip me right over is reassurance I am the only twit around who is
>denied entry into this paradise.
>
>jiri
Me and my brother tried also.....We ended up getting a new HD for our
ventures
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
16. Re: off topic : WinLinux
No, don't give up Jiri... it's worth the effort. But if you tried so many
distributions,
I'm surprised you didn't achieve . A lot of people around me jumped in
without
(or with few) problems, and they are not "gurus". Some of them installed
Redhat 5.1,
5.2, 6.0; Mandrake 6.0, 6.2; SuSE . So for me there can be two reasons it
failed for
you:
- there are problems with your hardware;
- or you don't do it right 
If you have some standard hardware, it should be ok. The problems can be
- if you have scsi drives, you should choose a kernel with scsi support
- same if you don't have an IDE CD-rom
- graphic card support (for X-Windows part only) - most pci cards are
supported.
recent chipset or agp cards can cause some trouble. see xfree.org site.
Modems or scanners don't interfer in the install. Some distributions you can
find in magazins are sort of "demos" and have only a kernel for a standard
machine.
You have to choose the modules during install. To be sure I answer 'yes' to
every question, cause there are a lot of interdependance. (Big hardDrive
required!)
So do you have an exotic machine?
And I'm sure next time the All Blacks will win against France... [I just saw
the
match, a friend has recorded- it was great]
Riwal Raude
rauder at thmulti.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jiri Babor [SMTP:J.Babor at GNS.CRI.NZ]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 3:38 AM
> To: EUPHORIA at LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU
> Subject: Re: off topic : WinLinux
>
> Greg Phillips wrote:
>
> > If you feel up to downloading a 40mb file, I can put doslinux up
> > somewhere, with everything you need to make it pretty (X, KDE, all
> > the libs, etc.). I can also try to help you with the installation
> > process. No guaruntees everything'll work, though =)
>
> You name your place, you set your time, I'll be there. Thanks, Greg!
>
>
> David Cuny wrote:
>
> > I notice that WinLinux, like Linux-Mandrake, is for Pentium-class
> > machines only. Did I read that you put it on a 486?
> >
> > The Cirrus Logic card should be on the list. If the card was not
> > autodetected, you should have at least been given an option to find
> > the card from a list of alternatives.
> >
> > The horror stories I could tell about MY installs...
>
> My poor grasp of English is evident here again: I meant I could use my
> old 486 to read CDs while my PII machine was 'disabled' by Linux. My
> Cirrus Logic card (GD or GA 546X, from memory - I am at work at the
> moment) is not on their list. So I tried a couple that looked close
> enough, as well as the 16 color default, but nothing worked.
>
>
> Jeffrey Fielding wrote:
>
> > WinLinux is a great distribution for experimenting with Linux. It
> > usually seems to get linux up and running very quickly and easily.
> > Unfortunately, I had a lot of problems getting software to run on it. I
> > am using RedHat 6.0 my two other linux machines, and I couldn't get any
> > software I had to run on WinLinux. I was especially disappointed that
> > Euphoria and WordPerfect 8 wouldn't run.
>
> Over the last three years I experimented with Slackware, Debian and
> Red Hat. More recently I tried OpenLinux, SuSE, dosLinux, Mandrake,
> and probably a couple of others, I have already forgotten. Boy, I am
> unlucky! I am sick of experimenting. I want a decent, easy and
> preferably customizable front, with a fast browser, some sort of
> graphics utility, emacs and a handful of compilers. Is that too much
> to ask? And if it can't run Euphoria, I might just as well forget it.
>
>
> Irv Mullins chipped in with:
>
> > Have you forgotten all the hassles we all went thru to get DOS, and
> > later, Windows running? Weird drivers that had to be installed before
> > a hard drive would work - drivers to get a sound card running, to
> > access upper memory, etc. etc.....?
>
> Yeah, but that was ten, twenty years ago. We are supposed to be in the
> era of 'Plug-and-Play' and all sorts of 'Wizards'.
>
> > Linux is much the same, except that instead of learning it over a
> > period of several years, we have to grasp it all at once. And since
> > Linux does a lot more than DOS, there's that much more to grasp.
>
> Like me, Linux is not exactly a new born baby. I do not mind learning
> or grasping anything, if I really need it. But I can't stand, not any
> more, going through half-a-dozen scripts half-a-dozen times just to
> set up a lousy bit of hardware.
>
>
> And Lucius & Kat: Thanks, guys, you probably saved my life!
>
> jiri
17. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Nic wrote:
> Another is to check out and play with apps that are strictly
> Linux: GIMP, INN, Apache... and so on.
The Gimp has actually been ported to Win32. I've been unable to substantiate
the rumors that the Gnome library may be ported to Win32. It's certainly
technically feasible, and I'd love to have some of the Gnome apps running
under Win32 (Gnumeric, etc).
-- David Cuny
18. Re: off topic : WinLinux
On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:22:57 -0600, RedWordSmith
<redwordsmith at NIC.DREAMHOST.COM> wrote:
>...
>behind. Yet another was price. At $30 a pop, I can afford to get full
>Linux-box sets up to 3 or 4 times a year. Windows is too expensive. My
>old PB CDeluxe still has a DOS/Win3.11 combo on it.
>...
Wow, so you'd pay $90-$120 a year for Linux instead of paying $90 for
Windows 98, an OS that installs itself and upgrades itself (when you go
online) and has software support for just about any hardware available. I
don't follow your logic here. Or are you just anti-MS?
I too have tried playing with Linux (Slackware), heck, it's free for the
downloading. But setting the thing up was quite the pain in the butt. I
couldn't get a windows interface going before I gave up. It just wasn't
worth it. I wanted spend my time actually USING my computer, not trying to
figure out how to set it up...
But I may try again some day, if I find a good enough reason to put myself
to the challenge.
-- Brian
19. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Hiya all!
Sad to hear you all going through this, 'specially Jiri, tring (I lost
count at 7) distro's, no results :(
Try DosLinux, that _might_ work.
2nd: Scrap the CL card... its probably reeeeally old for support these
days. (How? Don't ask me... I have CL GD5430-somethings in my drafting
class (HP Vectras - wouldn't install CD-drive got 'confused'))
My experiences, however, were opposite of yours; Two distros (RH5 and
Mandrake 6) installed and played (RH5 was always a mess tho) and one
failed (Methinx its either Linux4win or WinLinux), Tried installing it on
a HP vectra, wouldn't go (CD-rom drive problem)
But, this discussion/grievance was great- sparked a chain reaction among
those of us with our fingers in the Linux pie, or those of us who've
tried.
Otherwise... why shouldn't it work?
--"LEVIATHAN"
20. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Brian Broker wrote:
> Wow, so you'd pay $90-$120 a year for Linux instead
> of paying $90 for Windows 98, an OS that installs
> itself and upgrades itself (when you go online) and
> has software support for just about any hardware available.
I only paid $10 for my Linux-Mandrake CD, and that included shipping. I've
seen other distributions (including Corel's) for a similar price (for
example, at www.cheapbytes.com). Like Windows 98, I can also upgrade when I
go online. The list of supported hardware is actually pretty darned
impressive. The autodetect technology seems to be floundering a bit. Much to
my suprise, I ran across the following review of Windows 98 SE at
http://www.cpureview.com/rev_win98_ep1_g.html:
"I found it interesting that RedHat Linux 6.0
and Caldera OpenLinux 2.2 were easier to install
than Win98SE; they also fared better as far as
driver support out of the box went."
It seems that when it comes to installing operating systems, Your Mileage
May Vary. I've spent too much time struggling with both Linux and Windows,
and as you've noted, there are certainly better things to do in life.
One of the most popular distributions is Linux-Mandrake. It's little more
than Red Hat with the K Desktop integrated into it. But a lot of people
think it's value added not to have to hassle with the thing. The current
version of automatically brings up a graphical login when I boot the OS - I
don't even have to type startX anymore. Little details like this are very
appealing to idiots like me who would rather blow away the partition rather
than read the manual. 
> But I may try again some day, if I find a good enough
> reason to put myself to the challenge.
Linux has made great strides, but it's not at the point where I can take
Windows off my machine. I still can't:
... afford $120 for a fast real modem
... figure how to run the kid's games under WINE
... run my DOS favorite app (ImpulseTracker) in DOSEMU
But Linux certainly seems to be moving in the right direction. Work is being
done on getting WinModems to work under Linux (http://linmodems.org), but
I'm not holding my breath. The latest version of WINE (http://winehq.com)
has been reported to run Word 97 and Visual Basic 6 (although I'm sure you
need to tweak the config scripts to get it to work).
-- David Cuny
21. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Riwal Raude wrote:
> No, don't give up Jiri... it's worth the effort. But if you tried so
> many distributions, I'm surprised you didn't achieve .
Well, I may be stupid, but I am also very persistent (it just occurred
to me, there is probably some real linkage, worth exploring, in this
common pairing of persistence and stupidity).
> So for me there can be two reasons it failed for you:
> - there are problems with your hardware;
> - or you don't do it right
Surprising conclusions.
Sorry, Riwal (is that your first name?) - too tempting - I could not
let it go. And no, I haven't got what I would call an exotic setup.
Just an assembly of relatively cheap parts, some salvaged from my
older machines, so I can get within the financial limits, my wife
imposes on me, every three years or so.
Often it is just my old 4.3 gbyte 5 inch Big Foot that causes trouble,
at other times it was my no name cdrom, or the cheap graphics card, or
my external modem (one of the first 56 k Dynalink abortions), or any
combination of these. But I am not giving up yet...
> And I'm sure next time the All Blacks will win against France... [I
> just saw the match, a friend has recorded- it was great]
The All Blacks deserved to lose. What a bunch of overpaid primadonnas!
The French deserved to win. They were better on the day and they still
had fires in their bellies.
jiri
22. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Brian Broker wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 20:22:57 -0600, RedWordSmith
> <redwordsmith at NIC.DREAMHOST.COM> wrote:
>
> >...
> >behind. Yet another was price. At $30 a pop, I can afford to get full
> >Linux-box sets up to 3 or 4 times a year. Windows is too expensive. My
> >old PB CDeluxe still has a DOS/Win3.11 combo on it.
> >...
>
> Wow, so you'd pay $90-$120 a year for Linux instead of paying $90 for
> Windows 98, an OS that installs itself and upgrades itself (when you go
> online) and has software support for just about any hardware available.
I suppose so, it's a little bit like how I'd rather spend $2 on a hamburger
for lunch every day rather than $10+ on a steak dinner on Friday. (Not to
claim that Linux is the hamburger of the OS world, I'm speaking strictly in
terms of economics). Also, just because I can *afford* to do that doesn't
mean I'm going to actually buy it. I also have (extremely generous) friends
and relatives would who probably not mind getting me a $30- dollar gift if I
hinted. If it costs closer to a hundred, I can forget about anyone being so
nice to me, I'm going to have to get it myself. :)
> I
> don't follow your logic here. Or are you just anti-MS?
A bit. My Win95 box crashes just as much as my old Win 3.11, and the dialer
keeps on acting funny. I'd like a system with a "kill" command or equivalent
(I click on "end task" over and over again - it sometimes doesn't work, and I
have not choice but to reboot), that doesn't have everything under the sun
permanently fused together (I'd like to get rid of IE, I use it maybe once or
twice a month, but I can't). Linux looks most promising, and the idea of
users automatically having their own space also appeals to me. Yes, Windows
does do logins, but it's not the same. Linux just seems to do it with more
grace and dignity.
Someone else mentioned elsewhere that the Gimp had been ported to Win32. I
was under the impression that this was Alpha-quality, although I didn't bother
to look to closely into it.
Oh well, off to go get the public version of the new Linux Euphoria.
--
"Only when no one replies to spam will it go away."
If someone tries to sell you something via
unsolicited email, don't buy it.
See http://www.spamcop.net/ and fight back
Nic (RedWord)Smith
23. Re: off topic : WinLinux
> > Wow, so you'd pay $90-$120 a year for Linux instead of paying $90 for
> > Windows 98, an OS that installs itself and upgrades itself (when you go
> > online) and has software support for just about any hardware available.
>
> I suppose so, it's a little bit like how I'd rather spend $2 on a
hamburger
> for lunch every day rather than $10+ on a steak dinner on Friday. (Not
to
> claim that Linux is the hamburger of the OS world, I'm speaking strictly
in
> terms of economics). Also, just because I can *afford* to do that
doesn't
> mean I'm going to actually buy it. I also have (extremely generous)
friends
> and relatives would who probably not mind getting me a $30- dollar gift
if I
> hinted. If it costs closer to a hundred, I can forget about anyone being
so
> nice to me, I'm going to have to get it myself. :)
Also remember that a $30 distribution usually has a manual, games,
applications(WP,SS, etc), programming languages ....da-did-da (4 to 6 CD's
full of stuff). Once the main distribution has been purchased, then you
only have to buy *non* retail box's every now and then, and they cost a bit
less (?14 - ?20 here in the UK).
I am a little worried about M$ auto updating my system when I go on line,
as I have to pay for my online time here in the UK
24. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Hi Jiri -
>Sorry, Riwal (is that your first name?) - too tempting - I could
not
>let it go. And no, I haven't got what I would call an exotic setup.
>Just an assembly of relatively cheap parts, some salvaged from my
>older machines, so I can get within the financial limits, my wife
>imposes on me, every three years or so.
... Yes it is (it's breton)
wifes usually make problems. Because what she does (and children's
games) with the machine I assembled for them are much more important than
what I do, I was forced to give her my sony monitor as her was dead. So that
I was trying to work with an old monochrome (yellow) monitor.
my eyes became monchrome too: red .-)
>Often it is just my old 4.3 gbyte 5 inch Big Foot that causes
trouble,
>at other times it was my no name cdrom, or the cheap graphics card,
or
>my external modem (one of the first 56 k Dynalink abortions), or
any
>combination of these. But I am not giving up yet...
you can get good information about your graphic card on this link:
http://www.xfree.org/3.3.5/cirrus.html
I searched the supported hardware database from SuSE, and didn't see
your hard drive. they mention two other bigfoot model. But it should not be
a problem for IDE drives, linux gets its information directly from the bios.
Riwal Raude
rauder at thmulti.com
25. off topic : WinLinux
Since ya'll are talking about your bad Linux experiences, I
thought I might shed some sunshine on this rainy parade and
toss in a success story :)
I first heard about Linux a few years ago (in its earlier years),
and was immediately intrigued by it, since I'd never heard of
a "free" operating system. I got a book from the library with a
Linux CD (it was some generic version customized for the book release;
it used kernel v1.2). This was before the KDE or Gnome came out;
in fact there were only 2 window managers with it (fvwm & twm).
Since there was no installation program at all, I had to boot up
an "install" boot disk, use fdisk to tag the partition I wanted
Linux on with a Linux native ID, create the filesystem, mount it,
check it, the whole shabang. It took me a few tries to get it right
(since I had *no* Unix experience at all - except from reading
hacking textfiles ;), but eventually it worked.
For all of you who think that the install program that comes with
Red Hat (or any others for that matter) are primitive, try doing
what I did ;)
Once it was installed, it took some doing to finally get some of
my hardware configured (I went without a CDROM for a long time ;),
but it all worked out.
Now I'm running my box as a home network server, with full Internet
services up (POP3 & SMTP, DNS, FTP, Apache, Telnet). It's also got
X running WindowMaker (get it, it's great!), Gimp, and some other X
goodies. Right now I'm working on getting DOSEMU and WINE configured.
Maybe I'm lucky...
Maybe I have the right hardware...
Who knows?
Good luck to all those who don't seem to have it ;)
----->Buddy
budmeister1 at juno.com
http://tenbux.iwarp.com/
26. Re: off topic : WinLinux
> Wow, so you'd pay $90-$120 a year for Linux instead of paying $90 for
> Windows 98, an OS that installs itself and upgrades itself (when you go
> online)
And does what else when it goes on line? Have you ever gone to the security
update page that MS has for Win98 and 95? Windows has so many holes in it, it
isn't even funny. Check www.maximumpc.com and you will find out about a
memmory resident viri that is infecting Win NT servers around the world, and
its funny that the most current security problem on MS's website was for a
memmory overflow that occures when users download a url that is too long and
has a filename that can be activated by javascript or active x (can't remember).
First it sticks the mutant file in your cache, then a webpage program
executes it. The list goes on and on. There still hasn't been a fix for
bubbleboy from MS I do beleive...
I started switching to Linux to check my email. I still run the Win98
vesion on my HD for programming, but the stability once running has been great.
The learning curve is huge though.
And I installed mine off of a burned Redhat 6.1 cd that is quite legal...just
not supported by Redhat (pay a little extra)
It is also interesting that Redhat is rumored to be breaking off from the
rest of the Linux world by going to a journaling file system...so they can
offer faster recovery from hd crashes....they seem to have a desire to lead.
Redhat was easy to install, and once you screw it up, it is easy to wipe and
reinstall.
Try this for higher color levels Jiri if you get x with a better x driver.
startx -- -bpp 16
I beleive is the command.
I just put it in a text file, save it as "mywin" and made the file
executable using MC (midnight commander ...a usefull command shell)...
and then copied it into the /bin directory...and now just type mywin after
logging in for great color.
Monty
27. Re: off topic : WinLinux
>> Wow, so you'd pay $90-$120 a year for Linux instead of paying $90 for
>> Windows 98, an OS that installs itself and upgrades itself (when you go
>> online)
Many seem to want to rip on my quote here. I was merely pointing out the
contradictory statement made by RedWordSmith when he said "Windows is too
expensive" yet he claimed that "at $30 a pop, I can afford to get full
Linux-box sets up to 3 or 4 times a year."
I was also trying to point out that Windows was much more user friendly
than most distros of Linux (and many of you agree). So it's not the most
secure and bug free OS available but it's the OS of the masses (which is
why you see so many security flaws exploited). If Linux was the most
popular OS, I'm sure more security flaws and bugs would be coming out of
the woodwork. As for me, if I'm going to develop software, I'm gonna do it
on a platform that allows me to share my work with my friends and family
(Windows users). Also, I don't have "Big Brother is watching" paranoia
when it comes to being dialed in. MS has better things to do than monitor
my activity. And "automatic updates" doesn't mean that you are forced to
download an update against your wishes. That modem activity some of you
note can be attributed to the Windows Critical Update program going out to
notify you if there are any critical updates. If you don't want to be
notified, you can easily disable it.
But enough of my Windows spew... all of this Linux talk has inspired me to
have another go at it. Thanks to David Cuny for pointing out cheap*bytes;
I plan to give RedHat 6.1 a go. Wish me luck...
-- Brian
28. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Brian Broker wrote:
[snip]
> I was also trying to point out that Windows was much more user friendly
> than most distros of Linux (and many of you agree). So it's not the most
> secure and bug free OS available but it's the OS of the masses (which is
> why you see so many security flaws exploited). If Linux was the most
> popular OS, I'm sure more security flaws and bugs would be coming out of
> the woodwork.
The advantage to Linux: If there ever is a security flaw, all you've got to do
is make a change or two, recompile your kernel, and you're safe. It's not like
Windows, where you need to wait for MS to come out with a "hotfix" or a
"security patch", which may or may not entirely effective.
[snip]
>
> -- Brian
Regards,
Greg
29. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Personally speaking, I'll use and develop for both Linux and Windows. I
don't think it's productive to shut either operating system out. Both are
going to have to live with each other, in the end. Windows isn't going
away, despite the moanings of those knowledgable about the DOJ case. And
Linux isn't going away either.
30. Re: off topic : WinLinux
Monty wrote:
>Redhat was easy to install, and once you screw it up, it is easy to
>wipe and reinstall.
>
>Try this for higher color levels Jiri if you get x with a better x
>driver.
>
>startx -- -bpp 16
>I beleive is the command.
Thanks, Monty, I hope I will, some day, get that far :).
I already have RedHat 6.0, it did not do much for me. Now it's buried
in a pile, almost a foot high, of all the other abandoned Linux
distributions. It's a pity these CDs are not recyclable into
something useful.
jiri
31. Re: off topic : WinLinux
- Posted by Greg Phillips <i.shoot at REDNECKS.COM>
Nov 24, 1999
-
Last edited Nov 25, 1999
Sure they are. Here's some ideas:
http://www.fadden.com/cdrfaq/faq07.html#[7-9]
also, a list of CD recyclers:
Jiri Babor wrote:
> Monty wrote:
>
> >Redhat was easy to install, and once you screw it up, it is easy to
> >wipe and reinstall.
> >
> >Try this for higher color levels Jiri if you get x with a better x
> >driver.
> >
> >startx -- -bpp 16
> >I beleive is the command.
>
> Thanks, Monty, I hope I will, some day, get that far :).
>
> I already have RedHat 6.0, it did not do much for me. Now it's buried
> in a pile, almost a foot high, of all the other abandoned Linux
> distributions. It's a pity these CDs are not recyclable into
> something useful.
>
> jiri
32. Re: off topic : WinLinux
On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:54:34 -0800, Greg Phillips <i.shoot at REDNECKS.COM>
wrote:
>If you feel up to downloading a 40mb file, I can put doslinux up
>somewhere, with everything you need to make it pretty (X, KDE, all the
>libs, etc.). I can also try to help you with the installation process.
>No guaruntees everything'll work, though =)
>
>Regards,
>Greg
>
Greg,
I would be interested in this myself, especially with KDE.
Thanks,
+++ Rev. Ferlin Scarborough - Centreville, AL - USA
