1. RE: Ideas for Tab Control: the <Load As>
> Subject: Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the <Load As>
>
>
> posted by: Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
>
> Antonio Alessi wrote:
> >
> > Al Getz wrote:
> > >
> > > Antonio Alessi wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Al,
> > > >
> > > > My intention was not to doubt that you could do all that:
> > > > I just asked you if you believed that so many arguments
> > > > were going to fill all those tabs..
> > > >
> > > > As to the menus, if you accept the idea to let !menus drive the
> > > > tab selection, why not to associate a popup menu to each one
> > > > for the Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc. (Ctrl-click or Right-click),
> > > > leaving the menu items for captions only?
> > > >
> > > > antonio
> > >
> > > Hi Antonio,
> > >
> > > Im not sure what you mean here, "for captions only" ?
> > >
> > >
> > > Al
> > >
> >
> > You are right; my Language's limitations .. :()
> >
> > I mean to use every "direct" menu title as the label of an
> area, or action,
> >
> > which is to access a tab area (like a button without borders);
> > for that I improperly defined it "caption", trying to call
> forth a new
> > look for these controls. To achieve that style in the LP
> environment,
> > we should separate every usual menu action from;
> > hence I thought to a popup menu that could be indifferently opened
> > over each "label", for the editing of the relative tabcontrol area.
> >
> > In few words, the menu items for edit should not flank the
> Tab definitions.
> >
> > If you launch my dEbUg_magic_box you can see how I have set almost
> > all the menus this way, although for direct execution commands.
> > The Ctrl-click activates special funtions for some of them
> too (font, find..).
> >
> > Moreover you can also note how the help menu may work like
> a normal menu;
> > and all the menus as well are created by a single algorithm
> (end of prog.)
> > automatically generated by the initializing sequence of
> definitions and
> > strings.
> >
> > Starting from a sequence by an INI file all the LP could be
> self created,
> > as you are probably doing.
> >
> > antonio
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> I had implemented the popup menu this morning and am now testing it
> to see how it works with my everyday stuff. So far, so good, but
> when i stress tested it (created a lot of tabs) the menu got so
> long it went from top of screen to bottom of screen, and then you
> had to scroll on the bottom to get to the remaining items.
> Total items before that happend was 40, so that's not too bad.
> I think that's probably more than the number of tabs i'd want to
> have on any single instance anyway.
>
> The menu 'tabs' appear after a menu separater, with the edit
> commands appearing just before that, but im going to move all
> the edit commands into their own popup menu at the top of the
> 'tabs' menu.
>
> We also now have the idea of using a list box, and im also thinking
> about a simple window with hot tracking buttons too, one button for
> each tab...can be stacked vertically and horizontally like the
> LaunchPad itself has buttons.
>
>
> Al
If you want to go ahead with menus, you can use vertical separators every
say 30 items so as to avoid scrolling (like the non scrolling Programs
submenu in the Windows start menu).
However, using a ListBox could be what you want:
- it stacks lots of items, one on every line, probably twice as many as a
menu
- clicking on any item might pop up a short action menu with predefined
actions. Perhaps some variations on the contents or content availability is
to be considered - I have no precise idea of what exactly you are trying to
achieve;
- some extra graphical clues can inform about the status of a given item -
again, this may not be relevant, can't tell without knowing more about the
context.
According to the degree of flexibility you wish, ListViews may be more
appropriate. They are more flexible, and hence trickier to program with.
CChris
2. RE: Ideas for Tab Control: the <Load As>
Cuvier Christian wrote:
>
> > Subject: Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the <Load As>
> >
> >
> > posted by: Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
> >
> > Antonio Alessi wrote:
> > >
> > > Al Getz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Antonio Alessi wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Al,
> > > > >
> > > > > My intention was not to doubt that you could do all that:
> > > > > I just asked you if you believed that so many arguments
> > > > > were going to fill all those tabs..
> > > > >
> > > > > As to the menus, if you accept the idea to let !menus drive the
> > > > > tab selection, why not to associate a popup menu to each one
> > > > > for the Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc. (Ctrl-click or Right-click),
> > > > > leaving the menu items for captions only?
> > > > >
> > > > > antonio
> > > >
> > > > Hi Antonio,
> > > >
> > > > Im not sure what you mean here, "for captions only" ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Al
> > > >
> > >
> > > You are right; my Language's limitations .. :()
> > >
> > > I mean to use every "direct" menu title as the label of an
> > area, or action,
> > >
> > > which is to access a tab area (like a button without borders);
> > > for that I improperly defined it "caption", trying to call
> > forth a new
> > > look for these controls. To achieve that style in the LP
> > environment,
> > > we should separate every usual menu action from;
> > > hence I thought to a popup menu that could be indifferently opened
> > > over each "label", for the editing of the relative tabcontrol area.
> > >
> > > In few words, the menu items for edit should not flank the
> > Tab definitions.
> > >
> > > If you launch my dEbUg_magic_box you can see how I have set almost
> > > all the menus this way, although for direct execution commands.
> > > The Ctrl-click activates special funtions for some of them
> > too (font, find..).
> > >
> > > Moreover you can also note how the help menu may work like
> > a normal menu;
> > > and all the menus as well are created by a single algorithm
> > (end of prog.)
> > > automatically generated by the initializing sequence of
> > definitions and
> > > strings.
> > >
> > > Starting from a sequence by an INI file all the LP could be
> > self created,
> > > as you are probably doing.
> > >
> > > antonio
> >
> > Hi Antonio,
> >
> > I had implemented the popup menu this morning and am now testing it
> > to see how it works with my everyday stuff. So far, so good, but
> > when i stress tested it (created a lot of tabs) the menu got so
> > long it went from top of screen to bottom of screen, and then you
> > had to scroll on the bottom to get to the remaining items.
> > Total items before that happend was 40, so that's not too bad.
> > I think that's probably more than the number of tabs i'd want to
> > have on any single instance anyway.
> >
> > The menu 'tabs' appear after a menu separater, with the edit
> > commands appearing just before that, but im going to move all
> > the edit commands into their own popup menu at the top of the
> > 'tabs' menu.
> >
> > We also now have the idea of using a list box, and im also thinking
> > about a simple window with hot tracking buttons too, one button for
> > each tab...can be stacked vertically and horizontally like the
> > LaunchPad itself has buttons.
> >
> >
> > Al
>
> If you want to go ahead with menus, you can use vertical separators every
> say 30 items so as to avoid scrolling (like the non scrolling Programs
> submenu in the Windows start menu).
>
> However, using a ListBox could be what you want:
> - it stacks lots of items, one on every line, probably twice as many as a
> menu
> - clicking on any item might pop up a short action menu with predefined
> actions. Perhaps some variations on the contents or content availability is
> to be considered - I have no precise idea of what exactly you are trying to
> achieve;
> - some extra graphical clues can inform about the status of a given item -
> again, this may not be relevant, can't tell without knowing more about the
> context.
>
> According to the degree of flexibility you wish, ListViews may be more
> appropriate. They are more flexible, and hence trickier to program with.
>
> CChris
>
>
Hi CChris,
Im just trying to find the best way to navigate a tab control where
there might be say 50 tabs. I already have scroll buttons on both
sides to help and they also have acceleration settings so it's
pretty fast to scroll from tab 1 to tab 50, but Antonios idea
was to open a menu so you can 'jump' to a particular tab, by name.
This seems to be ok i guess, although i do like list box idea
better now i think. I'll have to do that once i get some of
the other more pressing things implemented.
I dont want to get too fancy, but want it to be operational without
too much trouble or waste of time on the part of the user.
Since i use this every day i dont want to have to scroll back and
forth 20 times a day either :)
'Swap Tab' helps the user put more frequently used items toward the
beginning of the tabs, but there is still going to be some scrolling.
Having a menu (or other) helps the user 'jump' to a particular tab and
have it scroll into view.
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
3. RE: Ideas for Tab Control: the <Load As>
>
>
> posted by: Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
>
> Cuvier Christian wrote:
> >
> > > Subject: Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the <Load As>
> > >
> > >
> > > posted by: Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
> > >
> > > Antonio Alessi wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Al Getz wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Antonio Alessi wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Al,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My intention was not to doubt that you could do all that:
> > > > > > I just asked you if you believed that so many arguments
> > > > > > were going to fill all those tabs..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As to the menus, if you accept the idea to let
> !menus drive the
> > > > > > tab selection, why not to associate a popup menu to each one
> > > > > > for the Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc. (Ctrl-click or
> Right-click),
> > > > > > leaving the menu items for captions only?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > antonio
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Antonio,
> > > > >
> > > > > Im not sure what you mean here, "for captions only" ?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Al
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You are right; my Language's limitations .. :()
> > > >
> > > > I mean to use every "direct" menu title as the label of an
> > > area, or action,
> > > >
> > > > which is to access a tab area (like a button without borders);
> > > > for that I improperly defined it "caption", trying to call
> > > forth a new
> > > > look for these controls. To achieve that style in the LP
> > > environment,
> > > > we should separate every usual menu action from;
> > > > hence I thought to a popup menu that could be
> indifferently opened
> > > > over each "label", for the editing of the relative
> tabcontrol area.
> > > >
> > > > In few words, the menu items for edit should not flank the
> > > Tab definitions.
> > > >
> > > > If you launch my dEbUg_magic_box you can see how I have
> set almost
> > > > all the menus this way, although for direct execution commands.
> > > > The Ctrl-click activates special funtions for some of them
> > > too (font, find..).
> > > >
> > > > Moreover you can also note how the help menu may work like
> > > a normal menu;
> > > > and all the menus as well are created by a single algorithm
> > > (end of prog.)
> > > > automatically generated by the initializing sequence of
> > > definitions and
> > > > strings.
> > > >
> > > > Starting from a sequence by an INI file all the LP could be
> > > self created,
> > > > as you are probably doing.
> > > >
> > > > antonio
> > >
> > > Hi Antonio,
> > >
> > > I had implemented the popup menu this morning and am now
> testing it
> > > to see how it works with my everyday stuff. So far, so good, but
> > > when i stress tested it (created a lot of tabs) the menu got so
> > > long it went from top of screen to bottom of screen, and then you
> > > had to scroll on the bottom to get to the remaining items.
> > > Total items before that happend was 40, so that's not too bad.
> > > I think that's probably more than the number of tabs i'd want to
> > > have on any single instance anyway.
> > >
> > > The menu 'tabs' appear after a menu separater, with the edit
> > > commands appearing just before that, but im going to move all
> > > the edit commands into their own popup menu at the top of the
> > > 'tabs' menu.
> > >
> > > We also now have the idea of using a list box, and im
> also thinking
> > > about a simple window with hot tracking buttons too, one
> button for
> > > each tab...can be stacked vertically and horizontally like the
> > > LaunchPad itself has buttons.
> > >
> > >
> > > Al
> >
> > If you want to go ahead with menus, you can use vertical
> separators every
> > say 30 items so as to avoid scrolling (like the non
> scrolling Programs
> > submenu in the Windows start menu).
> >
> > However, using a ListBox could be what you want:
> > - it stacks lots of items, one on every line, probably
> twice as many as a
> > menu
> > - clicking on any item might pop up a short action menu
> with predefined
> > actions. Perhaps some variations on the contents or content
> availability is
<snip>
> Al
Perhaps I was not precise enough: why do you want to use tabs at all, since
they take so much space and are adequate for switching between perhaps 3-20
entries max?
Just retain the idea of a common display area and use lists or menus to
rapidly point and get the requested object in that area.
If I understood you well, you can have a list, clicing an item would display
an action menu 4-5 item long and then you'd get the object in the common
area in the mode you just chose.
Perhaps completely off the mark after all...
CChris
CChris
4. RE: Ideas for Tab Control: the <Load As>
Cuvier Christian wrote:
>
> >
> > posted by: Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
> >
> > Cuvier Christian wrote:
> > >
> > > > Subject: Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the <Load As>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > posted by: Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
> > > >
> > > > Antonio Alessi wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Al Getz wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Antonio Alessi wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Al,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My intention was not to doubt that you could do all that:
> > > > > > > I just asked you if you believed that so many arguments
> > > > > > > were going to fill all those tabs..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As to the menus, if you accept the idea to let
> > !menus drive the
> > > > > > > tab selection, why not to associate a popup menu to each one
> > > > > > > for the Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc. (Ctrl-click or
> > Right-click),
> > > > > > > leaving the menu items for captions only?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > antonio
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Antonio,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Im not sure what you mean here, "for captions only" ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Al
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You are right; my Language's limitations .. :()
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean to use every "direct" menu title as the label of an
> > > > area, or action,
> > > > >
> > > > > which is to access a tab area (like a button without borders);
> > > > > for that I improperly defined it "caption", trying to call
> > > > forth a new
> > > > > look for these controls. To achieve that style in the LP
> > > > environment,
> > > > > we should separate every usual menu action from;
> > > > > hence I thought to a popup menu that could be
> > indifferently opened
> > > > > over each "label", for the editing of the relative
> > tabcontrol area.
> > > > >
> > > > > In few words, the menu items for edit should not flank the
> > > > Tab definitions.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you launch my dEbUg_magic_box you can see how I have
> > set almost
> > > > > all the menus this way, although for direct execution commands.
> > > > > The Ctrl-click activates special funtions for some of them
> > > > too (font, find..).
> > > > >
> > > > > Moreover you can also note how the help menu may work like
> > > > a normal menu;
> > > > > and all the menus as well are created by a single algorithm
> > > > (end of prog.)
> > > > > automatically generated by the initializing sequence of
> > > > definitions and
> > > > > strings.
> > > > >
> > > > > Starting from a sequence by an INI file all the LP could be
> > > > self created,
> > > > > as you are probably doing.
> > > > >
> > > > > antonio
> > > >
> > > > Hi Antonio,
> > > >
> > > > I had implemented the popup menu this morning and am now
> > testing it
> > > > to see how it works with my everyday stuff. So far, so good, but
> > > > when i stress tested it (created a lot of tabs) the menu got so
> > > > long it went from top of screen to bottom of screen, and then you
> > > > had to scroll on the bottom to get to the remaining items.
> > > > Total items before that happend was 40, so that's not too bad.
> > > > I think that's probably more than the number of tabs i'd want to
> > > > have on any single instance anyway.
> > > >
> > > > The menu 'tabs' appear after a menu separater, with the edit
> > > > commands appearing just before that, but im going to move all
> > > > the edit commands into their own popup menu at the top of the
> > > > 'tabs' menu.
> > > >
> > > > We also now have the idea of using a list box, and im
> > also thinking
> > > > about a simple window with hot tracking buttons too, one
> > button for
> > > > each tab...can be stacked vertically and horizontally like the
> > > > LaunchPad itself has buttons.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Al
> > >
> > > If you want to go ahead with menus, you can use vertical
> > separators every
> > > say 30 items so as to avoid scrolling (like the non
> > scrolling Programs
> > > submenu in the Windows start menu).
> > >
> > > However, using a ListBox could be what you want:
> > > - it stacks lots of items, one on every line, probably
> > twice as many as a
> > > menu
> > > - clicking on any item might pop up a short action menu
> > with predefined
> > > actions. Perhaps some variations on the contents or content
<snip>
Hi there CChris,
The idea is to make a launcher, not another desktop, and the launcher
would have tabs to make finding one of many items quickly.
The drawback is that there has to be several instances open at one
time if you want to house a *huge* number of items (buttons).
On the practical side, however, im using a single instance with
13 tabs and a max of 44 buttons per page and im finding it more
than adequate. Perhaps you have a larger number of items you
need to house, so use one launcher to open other launchers,
with one button on launcher #1 for each sub luncher...i used to
do this with my older versions of the launcher when one launch
instance only held maybe 30 buttons tops, and no tabs so each
instance could only access 30 items and no more.
Since the newer launcher can hold 44 (or more if you increase size)
buttons on EACH page and the number of pages is unlimited, you
should be able to get by with say 50 pages of 44 buttons each, which
would therefore be able to access over 2000 programs and/or websites,
not even counting that the newer version (soon) can open multiple
paths/websites with one button click (thanks to Antonios idea of allowing
multiple paths to be associated with one button).
For me, it's exciting :)
I didnt really want to get into the standard listview control
for this kind of thing, and after all, Windows is already able
to do that with shortcuts, but i wanted quick buttons and tabs
because i figured for the most important items it would be faster,
and functions also like a virtual directory, where you only add
your most important items.
I hope this makes sense to you.
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
