1. Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
> Hi Antonio,
>
> Yeah maybe tabs on top AND bottom might be a bit too much.
> As far as fitting more 'filenames' in your app, perhaps you
> can go to two lines of tabs? That's just a matter of changing
> style, although i dont want to do that with my app...i want
> single tab line only.
> I like the idea of having them stack vertically instead of horz.
> That might work out nice too. The text will fit nicer too and
> yeah, many more buttons can fit on the same control when they
> are on the side because the tab buttons dont have to be that
> high. Im going to have to make this style too...just sounds
> too good to pass by 
>
>
> Al
Hi there Al,
1st, a "new" not so new:
do you well know the Windows Toolbars? I had a surprise just trying
to answer you about the left bar with buttons: can extract a toolbar
from the main bar to the desktop, and create any kind of panel like
your Launchpad, with icons of any size and other.
Think a screen shot is much more explanatory than a fair description;
look at:
http://www.myway.it/EU/toolbars.gif
____________________
I don't know how to obtain two tabs lines in my application, do you?
Perhaps the best solution would be to have lateral tabs, not upper..
And now the real news:
After one night consulting my pillow, a solution enlightened the new
day, that M$ «in his infinite "wisdom", did not provide» nor imagine
at all: the LOAD AS function.
Let's be serious :|
Suppose to work with EU programs; we have preset 4 categories:
1. Main (.exw)
2. Include
3. Data (Ini and resources)
4. Documents
The idea is to group every loaded file under one of these, with "Load As".
So we could switch with ease from one kind of file to the other, quickly
reaching our targets. One more click is always preferable to any scroll.
How to handle that division? Not by a Tab including other Tabs, but with
four [Bang!]menu, each making visible its own set of TABs, with a single
Tab control. When you spoke of Tree, you were following this road;
menu structures are ready to meet that and more.
We could have the choice then to pre-define our families of files, or to
state them on load, by filetype or anything else we will be prompted for.
Of course we can directly load or drag any file to the current group.
In other words, this process can be dynamic and the number of grouping
menus can grow as needed. Do you like that?
This may give us two lines, but it's to you where to put them; are there
with EU FlatToolBars or ReBars that can be dragged out of the window and
made independent from the parent, like the Windows' toolbars above?
this could resolve many questions.
However you will have just one line of Tabs.
If this doesn't satisfy you, nothing remain but to create "simple" menus
used as the true files' controls to the place of the tabs: one line, trees,
shortened names (that could appear fullpath when clicked)
and "that's all Folks!"
antonio
2. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
>
> > Hi Antonio,
> >
> > Yeah maybe tabs on top AND bottom might be a bit too much.
> > As far as fitting more 'filenames' in your app, perhaps you
> > can go to two lines of tabs? That's just a matter of changing
> > style, although i dont want to do that with my app...i want
> > single tab line only.
> > I like the idea of having them stack vertically instead of horz.
> > That might work out nice too. The text will fit nicer too and
> > yeah, many more buttons can fit on the same control when they
> > are on the side because the tab buttons dont have to be that
> > high. Im going to have to make this style too...just sounds
> > too good to pass by
> >
> >
> > Al
>
> Hi there Al,
>
> 1st, a "new" not so new:
>
> do you well know the Windows Toolbars? I had a surprise just trying
> to answer you about the left bar with buttons: can extract a toolbar
> from the main bar to the desktop, and create any kind of panel like
> your Launchpad, with icons of any size and other.
> Think a screen shot is much more explanatory than a fair description;
> look at:
>
> <a
> href="http://www.myway.it/EU/toolbars.gif">http://www.myway.it/EU/toolbars.gif</a>
>
> ____________________
>
> I don't know how to obtain two tabs lines in my application, do you?
> Perhaps the best solution would be to have lateral tabs, not upper..
>
> And now the real news:
>
> After one night consulting my pillow, a solution enlightened the new
> day, that M$ «in his infinite "wisdom", did not provide» nor imagine
> at all: the LOAD AS function.
>
> Let's be serious :|
> Suppose to work with EU programs; we have preset 4 categories:
>
> 1. Main (.exw)
> 2. Include
> 3. Data (Ini and resources)
> 4. Documents
>
> The idea is to group every loaded file under one of these, with "Load As".
> So we could switch with ease from one kind of file to the other, quickly
> reaching our targets. One more click is always preferable to any scroll.
>
>
> How to handle that division? Not by a Tab including other Tabs, but with
> four [Bang!]menu, each making visible its own set of TABs, with a single
> Tab control. When you spoke of Tree, you were following this road;
> menu structures are ready to meet that and more.
>
> We could have the choice then to pre-define our families of files, or to
> state them on load, by filetype or anything else we will be prompted for.
> Of course we can directly load or drag any file to the current group.
> In other words, this process can be dynamic and the number of grouping
> menus can grow as needed. Do you like that?
>
> This may give us two lines, but it's to you where to put them; are there
> with EU FlatToolBars or ReBars that can be dragged out of the window and
> made independent from the parent, like the Windows' toolbars above?
> this could resolve many questions.
>
> However you will have just one line of Tabs.
>
> If this doesn't satisfy you, nothing remain but to create "simple" menus
> used as the true files' controls to the place of the tabs: one line, trees,
> shortened names (that could appear fullpath when clicked)
> and "that's all Folks!"
>
> antonio
Hi Antonio,
Well, i think maybe if i wanted to go the toolbar route couldnt
i just use a listview window and allow users to put whatever they
wanted in there, and move it around too?
I wanted to definitely stay away from using menu systems for
navagation, because they take too long to navigate when there
are a lot of sub levels. I liked the idea for the tabs however,
but we cant get into sub menu levels or it gets just as hard
to navigate as "Favorites" in Internet Explorer, right?
You can easily obtain multiple (more than one) lines of tab
buttons on your tab control by using the TCS_MULTILINE style.
This means your tab control could have two, three, or more
lines of tabs instead of just one. The down side to this is
you have to resize the tab windows (area where stuff is
displayed) every time the number of lines increases (by the user)
or else leave enough room at the top above displayed items
for the new tab lines to appear. You'll have to look into
how to manage this best.
For my app i wanted to stick with one line of tabs so as not to
take up too much room vertically, leaving more room for things
the user wants to add to the tab pages.
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
3. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> Well, i think maybe if i wanted to go the toolbar route couldnt
> i just use a listview window and allow users to put whatever they
> wanted in there, and move it around too?
>
> I wanted to definitely stay away from using menu systems for
> navagation, because they take too long to navigate when there
> are a lot of sub levels. I liked the idea for the tabs however,
> but we cant get into sub menu levels or it gets just as hard
> to navigate as "Favorites" in Internet Explorer, right?
>
> You can easily obtain multiple (more than one) lines of tab
> buttons on your tab control by using the TCS_MULTILINE style.
> This means your tab control could have two, three, or more
> lines of tabs instead of just one. The down side to this is
> you have to resize the tab windows (area where stuff is
> displayed) every time the number of lines increases (by the user)
> or else leave enough room at the top above displayed items
> for the new tab lines to appear. You'll have to look into
> how to manage this best.
>
> For my app i wanted to stick with one line of tabs so as not to
> take up too much room vertically, leaving more room for things
> the user wants to add to the tab pages.
>
>
> Al
>
Great info that of TCS_MULTILINE; but the scroll arrow are lost
this way, and this complicates everything, as usual.
I agree at all with the one line of tabs; for that I was not speaking
of sub menu levels: just one line, possibly to direct click (Bang!),
like I used inside the dEbUg program, that are like buttons;
(or one line as the menu open for to display full path\names, as
I don't think the menus allow hints), that can gather something
like 5 to 10 TAB groups. It could be enough for some more years.
I found the Tree more difficult to mantain, and don't believe a
user wishes to handle a listview for managing his loaded files;
this looks to be a further map to mentally plan and organise,
while who is working needs more and more shortcuts, ie. plain actions;
but may be an impression of mine. What I liked however was the
"Load As" concept, that set up straight off solutions to the user.
The popup menu in my current project remains a kind of solution
that embraces all these needs.
ciao,
antonio
4. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Hi again AL,
to complete my idea:
if a user saves a simple text file like that:
first group
ghost group
crazy group
special group
fifth group
you can build on an [auto]menu bar, for example:
for i = 1 to 5 do
mnu[i] = quickcreate( MenuItem, "!"& mn[i], etc., 0)
end for
setHandler( mnu[1..5], w32HClick, routine_id( "Tabs replacement"))
and prepare five groups of tabs to be opened.
Could a tree be so simple, both for you and the user?
antonio
a programming solution is successful
as it meets the user's effort in time.
5. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
> Hi again AL,
>
>
> to complete my idea:
> if a user saves a simple text file like that:
>
> first group
> ghost group
> crazy group
> special group
> fifth group
>
> you can build on an [auto]menu bar, for example:
> }}}
<eucode>
> for i = 1 to 5 do
> mnu[i] = quickcreate( MenuItem, "!"& mn[i], etc., 0)
> end for
> setHandler( mnu[1..5], w32HClick, routine_id( "Tabs replacement"))
> </eucode>
{{{
> and prepare five groups of tabs to be opened.
>
> Could a tree be so simple, both for you and the user?
> antonio
>
>
> a programming solution is successful
> as it meets the user's effort in time.
Still, i really like your popup menu idea best. Im going to have
to think about a simple way to implement this in the Launcher.
I dont even have 'that' many tab groups defined in my current LauchPad
that i use every day, and already im having to not like having to
scroll!! It's a pain because it takes too much time. I put buttons
on both sides of my custom tab control now, and both have left and right
scroll, but it's still not that good. I guess i gotta do the popup menu
idea of yours one way or another.
I put least used stuff on tabs to the far right (so as to not have to scroll
too often) but it's still not good without the menu.
Now there's one more question...
Where to allow the popup menu to be initialized from (graphically that is).
In other words, where does the user have to right click in order to
bring up the menu, which is solely for the tab buttons?
I already had plans for the right click on the tabs to do other things
like 'copy', paste button, etc. with this idea we want to have a whole
list of tabs (which is good) but i wouldnt want to add them to the
'edit' menu...maybe right click somewhere else? Above the buttons?
on the page face? Ideas?
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
6. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> > Hi Antonio,
> >
> > Well, i think maybe if i wanted to go the toolbar route couldnt
> > i just use a listview window and allow users to put whatever they
> > wanted in there, and move it around too?
> >
> > I wanted to definitely stay away from using menu systems for
> > navagation, because they take too long to navigate when there
> > are a lot of sub levels. I liked the idea for the tabs however,
> > but we cant get into sub menu levels or it gets just as hard
> > to navigate as "Favorites" in Internet Explorer, right?
> >
> > You can easily obtain multiple (more than one) lines of tab
> > buttons on your tab control by using the TCS_MULTILINE style.
> > This means your tab control could have two, three, or more
> > lines of tabs instead of just one. The down side to this is
> > you have to resize the tab windows (area where stuff is
> > displayed) every time the number of lines increases (by the user)
> > or else leave enough room at the top above displayed items
> > for the new tab lines to appear. You'll have to look into
> > how to manage this best.
> >
> > For my app i wanted to stick with one line of tabs so as not to
> > take up too much room vertically, leaving more room for things
> > the user wants to add to the tab pages.
> >
> >
> > Al
> >
>
> Great info that of TCS_MULTILINE; but the scroll arrow are lost
> this way, and this complicates everything, as usual.
> I agree at all with the one line of tabs; for that I was not speaking
> of sub menu levels: just one line, possibly to direct click (Bang!),
> like I used inside the dEbUg program, that are like buttons;
> (or one line as the menu open for to display full path\names, as
> I don't think the menus allow hints), that can gather something
> like 5 to 10 TAB groups. It could be enough for some more years.
>
> I found the Tree more difficult to mantain, and don't believe a
> user wishes to handle a listview for managing his loaded files;
> this looks to be a further map to mentally plan and organise,
> while who is working needs more and more shortcuts, ie. plain actions;
> but may be an impression of mine. What I liked however was the
> "Load As" concept, that set up straight off solutions to the user.
> The popup menu in my current project remains a kind of solution
> that embraces all these needs.
>
> ciao,
> antonio
Hi Antonio,
Oh ok i see what you mean now. Yes, limited use would probably
work out very well.
Also, my past version of LaunchPad did not have tabs at all, just
buttons, so there was only one page to work with per instance.
What i did then was have one LaunchPad to open up other Launchpads like:
LP 1
Web
EuphoriaProjects
Financial
LP 2 would then be for "Web"
LP 3 would be for EuProjects
LP 4 would be for Financial stuff
So i used LP to group other LP's.
This can be still used, while making the 'main' LP smaller,
with each tab for a major catagory and buttons for minor groups.
What do you think about this idea?
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
7. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Antonio Alessi wrote:
> >
> > Hi again AL,
> >
> >
> > to complete my idea:
> > if a user saves a simple text file like that:
> >
> > first group
> > ghost group
> > crazy group
> > special group
> > fifth group
> >
> > you can build on an [auto]menu bar, for example:
> > }}}
<eucode>
> > for i = 1 to 5 do
> > mnu[i] = quickcreate( MenuItem, "!"& mn[i], etc., 0)
> > end for
> > setHandler( mnu[1..5], w32HClick, routine_id( "Tabs replacement"))
> > </eucode>
{{{
> > and prepare five groups of tabs to be opened.
> >
> > Could a tree be so simple, both for you and the user?
> > antonio
> >
> >
> > a programming solution is successful
> > as it meets the user's effort in time.
>
>
> Still, i really like your popup menu idea best. Im going to have
> to think about a simple way to implement this in the Launcher.
>
> I dont even have 'that' many tab groups defined in my current LauchPad
> that i use every day, and already im having to not like having to
> scroll!! It's a pain because it takes too much time. I put buttons
> on both sides of my custom tab control now, and both have left and right
> scroll, but it's still not that good. I guess i gotta do the popup menu
> idea of yours one way or another.
> I put least used stuff on tabs to the far right (so as to not have to scroll
> too often) but it's still not good without the menu.
>
> Now there's one more question...
> Where to allow the popup menu to be initialized from (graphically that is).
> In other words, where does the user have to right click in order to
> bring up the menu, which is solely for the tab buttons?
>
> I already had plans for the right click on the tabs to do other things
> like 'copy', paste button, etc. with this idea we want to have a whole
> list of tabs (which is good) but i wouldnt want to add them to the
> 'edit' menu...maybe right click somewhere else? Above the buttons?
> on the page face? Ideas?
>
>
Well, it is not so simple what I have done with my popup menu; for that
it would take long time to extrapolate it from the procedure, since it was
created for there. I believe also it is a bit heavy for the Launchpad;
I did not understand your request was oriented to this project of yours,
but to me it does not seem so suitable in that case. Speaking of tabs,
I focused loaded files, documents and programs, not buttons. The problem
about these buttons is to launch more applications at a time, but they
must be visible, immediate and far from to be searched into a labyrinth.
I'm not sure we are talking of the same things ;o)..
however there is on my keyboard a menu shortcut key that I have used for
the popup menu; but you must choose some special Key likewise.
8. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> Oh ok i see what you mean now. Yes, limited use would probably
> work out very well.
> Also, my past version of LaunchPad did not have tabs at all, just
> buttons, so there was only one page to work with per instance.
> What i did then was have one LaunchPad to open up other Launchpads like:
>
> LP 1
> Web
> EuphoriaProjects
> Financial
>
> LP 2 would then be for "Web"
> LP 3 would be for EuProjects
> LP 4 would be for Financial stuff
>
> So i used LP to group other LP's.
>
> This can be still used, while making the 'main' LP smaller,
> with each tab for a major catagory and buttons for minor groups.
>
> What do you think about this idea?
>
LP 1 first group
LP 2 ghost group
LP 3 crazy group
LP 4 special group
for i = 1 to 4 do
mnu[i] = quickcreate( MenuItem, "!"& LP[i], etc., 0)
setHandler( mnu[i], w32HClick, routine_id( "Tabs replacement"))
end for
Could tabs be so simple?
antonio
9. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
>
> > Hi Antonio,
> >
> > Oh ok i see what you mean now. Yes, limited use would probably
> > work out very well.
> > Also, my past version of LaunchPad did not have tabs at all, just
> > buttons, so there was only one page to work with per instance.
> > What i did then was have one LaunchPad to open up other Launchpads like:
> >
> > LP 1
> > Web
> > EuphoriaProjects
> > Financial
> >
> > LP 2 would then be for "Web"
> > LP 3 would be for EuProjects
> > LP 4 would be for Financial stuff
> >
> > So i used LP to group other LP's.
> >
> > This can be still used, while making the 'main' LP smaller,
> > with each tab for a major catagory and buttons for minor groups.
> >
> > What do you think about this idea?
> >
>
> LP 1 first group
> LP 2 ghost group
> LP 3 crazy group
> LP 4 special group
>
> for i = 1 to 4 do
> mnu[i] = quickcreate( MenuItem, "!"& LP[i], etc., 0)
> setHandler( mnu[i], w32HClick, routine_id( "Tabs replacement"))
> end for
>
> Could tabs be so simple?
> antonio
Hi again,
So you're saying use a menu to replace the tabs?
I kinda like having the tabs now though :)
I would like having both tabs and the menu however.
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
10. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Antonio Alessi wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Hi Antonio,
> > >
> > > Oh ok i see what you mean now. Yes, limited use would probably
> > > work out very well.
> > > Also, my past version of LaunchPad did not have tabs at all, just
> > > buttons, so there was only one page to work with per instance.
> > > What i did then was have one LaunchPad to open up other Launchpads like:
> > >
> > > LP 1
> > > Web
> > > EuphoriaProjects
> > > Financial
> > >
> > > LP 2 would then be for "Web"
> > > LP 3 would be for EuProjects
> > > LP 4 would be for Financial stuff
> > >
> > > So i used LP to group other LP's.
> > >
> > > This can be still used, while making the 'main' LP smaller,
> > > with each tab for a major catagory and buttons for minor groups.
> > >
> > > What do you think about this idea?
> > >
> >
> > LP 1 first group
> > LP 2 ghost group
> > LP 3 crazy group
> > LP 4 special group
> >
> > for i = 1 to 4 do
> > mnu[i] = quickcreate( MenuItem, "!"& LP[i], etc., 0)
> > setHandler( mnu[i], w32HClick, routine_id( "Tabs replacement"))
> > end for
> >
> > Could tabs be so simple?
> > antonio
>
> Hi again,
>
> So you're saying use a menu to replace the tabs?
> I kinda like having the tabs now though :)
> I would like having both tabs and the menu however.
>
> Al
>
>
> My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
>
11. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
>
>
> Hi again,
>
> So you're saying use a menu to replace the tabs?
> I kinda like having the tabs now though :)
> I would like having both tabs and the menu however.
>
> Al
>
(sorry for the last empty message)
Hi AL,
I was just repeating myself, since your example exactly fits my guess;
I wouldn't like to appear insistent however :)
Really, it seems we glimpse the same solution: my suggestion was to have
both tabs and the menus, this way:
LP_1 LP_2 LP_3 LP_4 LP_5 -- these are 5 !menus,
________________________________
-- on mouse touch, each opens the tab control with, let's say, 1 to 9 tabs.
Tab1 | Tab2 | Tab3 | Tab4 | Tab5 | Tab6 | Tab7 | Tab8 | Tab9 |
______________________________________________________________
Inside every tab we can put how many buttons, or icons or LV you want.
ok?
this should be quick to build as well as to use.
The fact is that when the tabs were born, it was rare to load 30-40 files
at a time, what to day seems rather a "habit"; they were not created for
dynamic scopes like loading etc., but rather for programs' options display:
the today's tabs structure for tools like editors is insufficient by itself,
neither the multiline nor vertical nor all around tabs positioning
can resolve the problem, since the window doesn't change, and we cannot have
more tabs than text. Altough scrolling, the Tabs represent a static mode,
like a mono-dimensional array, that we are trying to bring to
multi-dimensional here.
That was my first idea;
how much those !menu can satisfy the need I can't know until I'll work with.
antonio
12. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi again,
> >
> > So you're saying use a menu to replace the tabs?
> > I kinda like having the tabs now though :)
> > I would like having both tabs and the menu however.
> >
> > Al
> >
>
> (sorry for the last empty message)
>
> Hi AL,
>
> I was just repeating myself, since your example exactly fits my guess;
> I wouldn't like to appear insistent however :)
>
> Really, it seems we glimpse the same solution: my suggestion was to have
> both tabs and the menus, this way:
>
> LP_1 LP_2 LP_3 LP_4 LP_5 -- these are 5 !menus,
> ________________________________
>
> -- on mouse touch, each opens the tab control with, let's say, 1 to 9 tabs.
>
> Tab1 | Tab2 | Tab3 | Tab4 | Tab5 | Tab6 | Tab7 | Tab8 | Tab9 |
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> Inside every tab we can put how many buttons, or icons or LV you want.
> ok?
> this should be quick to build as well as to use.
>
> The fact is that when the tabs were born, it was rare to load 30-40 files
> at a time, what to day seems rather a "habit"; they were not created for
> dynamic scopes like loading etc., but rather for programs' options display:
>
> the today's tabs structure for tools like editors is insufficient by itself,
>
> neither the multiline nor vertical nor all around tabs positioning
> can resolve the problem, since the window doesn't change, and we cannot have
> more tabs than text. Altough scrolling, the Tabs represent a static mode,
> like a mono-dimensional array, that we are trying to bring to
> multi-dimensional here.
>
> That was my first idea;
> how much those !menu can satisfy the need I can't know until I'll work with.
>
> antonio
Now you've got me thinking about two ideas...
I thought you meant something else, which i was liking...
-- lets say 1 to 18 tabs, of which only the first 8 are visible now:
| Tab1 | Tab2 | Tab3 | Tab4 | Tab5 | Tab6 | Tab7 | Tab8 |
______________________________________________________________
My 'menu' was going to open like this:
Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
Tab1
Tab2
Tab3
Tab4
Tab5
Tab6
Tab7
Tab8
'Edit' is the popup for editing the tab color, etc.
The other 8 items are of course each tab, where when you click on
that tab comes into the center of the tab control for easy access.
Also possible:
Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
Tab1
Tab9
Tab18
Where Tab1 is of course the first tab, and Tab9 is the next
tab that would appear at the first tab position (where tab1 is now)
if that menu item was clicked. If tab9 were clicked on the menu
only tabs 9 though 17 would appear next on top because say tab 18
doesnt fit, so Tab18 also has to appear on the menu.
The only difference here is the actual full names would appear:
Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
Web Stuff
Euphoria Projects
Calculators
The only drawback is you'd have to remember that your (say) Financial
Stuff was after (say) Calculators...maybe this isnt that good.
If the entire set of tabs appear on the menu that would be good
i think. Perhaps then another menu for groups of tabs, but im
not sure yet if we would need that now.
What do you think?
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
13. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Antonio Alessi wrote:
> >
> > Al Getz wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi again,
> > >
> > > So you're saying use a menu to replace the tabs?
> > > I kinda like having the tabs now though :)
> > > I would like having both tabs and the menu however.
> > >
> > > Al
> > >
> >
> > (sorry for the last empty message)
> >
> > Hi AL,
> >
> > I was just repeating myself, since your example exactly fits my guess;
> > I wouldn't like to appear insistent however :)
> >
> > Really, it seems we glimpse the same solution: my suggestion was to have
> > both tabs and the menus, this way:
> >
> > LP_1 LP_2 LP_3 LP_4 LP_5 -- these are 5 !menus,
> > ________________________________
> >
> > -- on mouse touch, each opens the tab control with, let's say, 1 to 9 tabs.
> >
> > Tab1 | Tab2 | Tab3 | Tab4 | Tab5 | Tab6 | Tab7 | Tab8 | Tab9 |
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> > Inside every tab we can put how many buttons, or icons or LV you want.
> > ok?
> > this should be quick to build as well as to use.
> >
> > The fact is that when the tabs were born, it was rare to load 30-40 files
> > at a time, what to day seems rather a "habit"; they were not created for
> > dynamic scopes like loading etc., but rather for programs' options display:
> >
> > the today's tabs structure for tools like editors is insufficient by itself,
> >
> > neither the multiline nor vertical nor all around tabs positioning
> > can resolve the problem, since the window doesn't change, and we cannot have
> > more tabs than text. Altough scrolling, the Tabs represent a static mode,
> > like a mono-dimensional array, that we are trying to bring to
> > multi-dimensional here.
> >
> > That was my first idea;
> > how much those !menu can satisfy the need I can't know until I'll work with.
> >
> > antonio
>
> Now you've got me thinking about two ideas...
>
> I thought you meant something else, which i was liking...
>
>
> -- lets say 1 to 18 tabs, of which only the first 8 are visible now:
>
> | Tab1 | Tab2 | Tab3 | Tab4 | Tab5 | Tab6 | Tab7 | Tab8 |
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
>
> My 'menu' was going to open like this:
>
> Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
> Tab1
> Tab2
> Tab3
> Tab4
> Tab5
> Tab6
> Tab7
> Tab8
>
> 'Edit' is the popup for editing the tab color, etc.
> The other 8 items are of course each tab, where when you click on
> that tab comes into the center of the tab control for easy access.
>
> Also possible:
>
> Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
> Tab1
> Tab9
> Tab18
>
> Where Tab1 is of course the first tab, and Tab9 is the next
> tab that would appear at the first tab position (where tab1 is now)
> if that menu item was clicked. If tab9 were clicked on the menu
> only tabs 9 though 17 would appear next on top because say tab 18
> doesnt fit, so Tab18 also has to appear on the menu.
> The only difference here is the actual full names would appear:
>
> Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
> Web Stuff
> Euphoria Projects
> Calculators
>
> The only drawback is you'd have to remember that your (say) Financial
> Stuff was after (say) Calculators...maybe this isnt that good.
>
> If the entire set of tabs appear on the menu that would be good
> i think. Perhaps then another menu for groups of tabs, but im
> not sure yet if we would need that now.
> What do you think?
>
>
> Al
>
>
> My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
>
Sorry, i made a mistake in that last post.
The menu was supposed to look like this:
Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
Tab1
Tab2
Tab3
Tab4
Tab5
Tab6
Tab7
Tab8
Tab9
Tab10
Tab11
Tab12
Tab13
Tab14
Tab15
Tab16
Tab17
Tab18
when only the first 8 are visible in the tab control. The user
can click on any menu item and go instantly to that exact tab.
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
14. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
>
>
> Now you've got me thinking about two ideas...
>
> I thought you meant something else, which i was liking...
>
>
> -- lets say 1 to 18 tabs, of which only the first 8 are visible now:
>
> | Tab1 | Tab2 | Tab3 | Tab4 | Tab5 | Tab6 | Tab7 | Tab8 |
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
>
> My 'menu' was going to open like this:
>
> Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
> Tab1
> Tab2
> Tab3
> Tab4
> Tab5
> Tab6
> Tab7
> Tab8
>
> 'Edit' is the popup for editing the tab color, etc.
> The other 8 items are of course each tab, where when you click on
> that tab comes into the center of the tab control for easy access.
>
> Also possible:
>
> Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
> Tab1
> Tab9
> Tab18
>
> Where Tab1 is of course the first tab, and Tab9 is the next
> tab that would appear at the first tab position (where tab1 is now)
> if that menu item was clicked. If tab9 were clicked on the menu
> only tabs 9 though 17 would appear next on top because say tab 18
> doesnt fit, so Tab18 also has to appear on the menu.
> The only difference here is the actual full names would appear:
>
> Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
> Web Stuff
> Euphoria Projects
> Calculators
>
> The only drawback is you'd have to remember that your (say) Financial
> Stuff was after (say) Calculators...maybe this isnt that good.
>
> If the entire set of tabs appear on the menu that would be good
> i think. Perhaps then another menu for groups of tabs, but im
> not sure yet if we would need that now.
> What do you think?
>
>
> Al
>
I just think we cannot forecast all the routes of our mind ÷)
our fate is to walk and walk, until they turn to .. routines.
Are you sure you will have to manage all that stuff?
However when I think to !menus, I separate their style, position and
expression from the conventional menu: I kinda see them like buttons
without borders.
antonio
15. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
- Posted by Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
Apr 19, 2006
-
Last edited Apr 20, 2006
Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> >
> > Now you've got me thinking about two ideas...
> >
> > I thought you meant something else, which i was liking...
> >
> >
> > -- lets say 1 to 18 tabs, of which only the first 8 are visible now:
> >
> > | Tab1 | Tab2 | Tab3 | Tab4 | Tab5 | Tab6 | Tab7 | Tab8 |
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> > My 'menu' was going to open like this:
> >
> > Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
> > Tab1
> > Tab2
> > Tab3
> > Tab4
> > Tab5
> > Tab6
> > Tab7
> > Tab8
> >
> > 'Edit' is the popup for editing the tab color, etc.
> > The other 8 items are of course each tab, where when you click on
> > that tab comes into the center of the tab control for easy access.
> >
> > Also possible:
> >
> > Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
> > Tab1
> > Tab9
> > Tab18
> >
> > Where Tab1 is of course the first tab, and Tab9 is the next
> > tab that would appear at the first tab position (where tab1 is now)
> > if that menu item was clicked. If tab9 were clicked on the menu
> > only tabs 9 though 17 would appear next on top because say tab 18
> > doesnt fit, so Tab18 also has to appear on the menu.
> > The only difference here is the actual full names would appear:
> >
> > Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc.
> > Web Stuff
> > Euphoria Projects
> > Calculators
> >
> > The only drawback is you'd have to remember that your (say) Financial
> > Stuff was after (say) Calculators...maybe this isnt that good.
> >
> > If the entire set of tabs appear on the menu that would be good
> > i think. Perhaps then another menu for groups of tabs, but im
> > not sure yet if we would need that now.
> > What do you think?
> >
> >
> > Al
> >
>
> I just think we cannot forecast all the routes of our mind ÷)
> our fate is to walk and walk, until they turn to .. routines.
>
> Are you sure you will have to manage all that stuff?
>
> However when I think to !menus, I separate their style, position and
> expression from the conventional menu: I kinda see them like buttons
> without borders.
>
> antonio
Hi Antonio,
Yes, there are a number of ideas here, but i'm thankful for the
replies i've gotten here on the tab control.
Can i manage all this stuff? I hope so
I dont think the menu creation will be that hard however,
because after all, it's just a floating pop up menu, which WinClass
already has. It's just a matter of managing it once it's created
and has things on it (tab names and whatever).
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
16. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Antonio Alessi wrote:
> >
> > I just think we cannot forecast all the routes of our mind ÷)
> > our fate is to walk and walk, until they turn to .. routines.
> >
> > Are you sure you will have to manage all that stuff?
> >
> > However when I think to !menus, I separate their style, position and
> > expression from the conventional menu: I kinda see them like buttons
> > without borders.
> >
> > antonio
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
>
> Yes, there are a number of ideas here, but i'm thankful for the
> replies i've gotten here on the tab control.
>
> Can i manage all this stuff? I hope so
> I dont think the menu creation will be that hard however,
> because after all, it's just a floating pop up menu, which WinClass
> already has. It's just a matter of managing it once it's created
> and has things on it (tab names and whatever).
>
>
> Al
>
>
> My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
>
Hi Al,
My intention was not to doubt that you could do all that:
I just asked you if you believed that so many arguments
were going to fill all those tabs..
As to the menus, if you accept the idea to let !menus drive the
tab selection, why not to associate a popup menu to each one
for the Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc. (Ctrl-click or Right-click),
leaving the menu items for captions only?
antonio
17. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
> Hi Al,
>
> My intention was not to doubt that you could do all that:
> I just asked you if you believed that so many arguments
> were going to fill all those tabs..
>
> As to the menus, if you accept the idea to let !menus drive the
> tab selection, why not to associate a popup menu to each one
> for the Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc. (Ctrl-click or Right-click),
> leaving the menu items for captions only?
>
> antonio
Hi Antonio,
Im not sure what you mean here, "for captions only" ?
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
18. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
>
> Antonio Alessi wrote:
> >
> > Hi Al,
> >
> > My intention was not to doubt that you could do all that:
> > I just asked you if you believed that so many arguments
> > were going to fill all those tabs..
> >
> > As to the menus, if you accept the idea to let !menus drive the
> > tab selection, why not to associate a popup menu to each one
> > for the Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc. (Ctrl-click or Right-click),
> > leaving the menu items for captions only?
> >
> > antonio
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> Im not sure what you mean here, "for captions only" ?
>
>
> Al
>
You are right; my Language's limitations .. :()
I mean to use every "direct" menu title as the label of an area, or action,
which is to access a tab area (like a button without borders);
for that I improperly defined it "caption", trying to call forth a new
look for these controls. To achieve that style in the LP environment,
we should separate every usual menu action from;
hence I thought to a popup menu that could be indifferently opened
over each "label", for the editing of the relative tabcontrol area.
In few words, the menu items for edit should not flank the Tab definitions.
If you launch my dEbUg_magic_box you can see how I have set almost
all the menus this way, although for direct execution commands.
The Ctrl-click activates special funtions for some of them too (font, find..).
Moreover you can also note how the help menu may work like a normal menu;
and all the menus as well are created by a single algorithm (end of prog.)
automatically generated by the initializing sequence of definitions and
strings.
Starting from a sequence by an INI file all the LP could be self created,
as you are probably doing.
antonio
19. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> > Antonio Alessi wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Al,
> > >
> > > My intention was not to doubt that you could do all that:
> > > I just asked you if you believed that so many arguments
> > > were going to fill all those tabs..
> > >
> > > As to the menus, if you accept the idea to let !menus drive the
> > > tab selection, why not to associate a popup menu to each one
> > > for the Edit> paste/copy/cut/etc. (Ctrl-click or Right-click),
> > > leaving the menu items for captions only?
> > >
> > > antonio
> >
> > Hi Antonio,
> >
> > Im not sure what you mean here, "for captions only" ?
> >
> >
> > Al
> >
>
> You are right; my Language's limitations .. :()
>
> I mean to use every "direct" menu title as the label of an area, or action,
>
> which is to access a tab area (like a button without borders);
> for that I improperly defined it "caption", trying to call forth a new
> look for these controls. To achieve that style in the LP environment,
> we should separate every usual menu action from;
> hence I thought to a popup menu that could be indifferently opened
> over each "label", for the editing of the relative tabcontrol area.
>
> In few words, the menu items for edit should not flank the Tab definitions.
>
> If you launch my dEbUg_magic_box you can see how I have set almost
> all the menus this way, although for direct execution commands.
> The Ctrl-click activates special funtions for some of them too (font, find..).
>
> Moreover you can also note how the help menu may work like a normal menu;
> and all the menus as well are created by a single algorithm (end of prog.)
> automatically generated by the initializing sequence of definitions and
> strings.
>
> Starting from a sequence by an INI file all the LP could be self created,
> as you are probably doing.
>
> antonio
Hi Antonio,
I had implemented the popup menu this morning and am now testing it
to see how it works with my everyday stuff. So far, so good, but
when i stress tested it (created a lot of tabs) the menu got so
long it went from top of screen to bottom of screen, and then you
had to scroll on the bottom to get to the remaining items.
Total items before that happend was 40, so that's not too bad.
I think that's probably more than the number of tabs i'd want to
have on any single instance anyway.
The menu 'tabs' appear after a menu separater, with the edit
commands appearing just before that, but im going to move all
the edit commands into their own popup menu at the top of the
'tabs' menu.
We also now have the idea of using a list box, and im also thinking
about a simple window with hot tracking buttons too, one button for
each tab...can be stacked vertically and horizontally like the
LaunchPad itself has buttons.
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
20. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
>
>
> Hi Antonio,
>
> I had implemented the popup menu this morning and am now testing it
> to see how it works with my everyday stuff. So far, so good, but
> when i stress tested it (created a lot of tabs) the menu got so
> long it went from top of screen to bottom of screen, and then you
> had to scroll on the bottom to get to the remaining items.
> Total items before that happend was 40, so that's not too bad.
> I think that's probably more than the number of tabs i'd want to
> have on any single instance anyway.
>
> The menu 'tabs' appear after a menu separater, with the edit
> commands appearing just before that, but im going to move all
> the edit commands into their own popup menu at the top of the
> 'tabs' menu.
>
> We also now have the idea of using a list box, and im also thinking
> about a simple window with hot tracking buttons too, one button for
> each tab...can be stacked vertically and horizontally like the
> LaunchPad itself has buttons.
>
>
> Al
>
Hi AL,
I don't understand something: why do you put items into the popup menu?
I thought it had to contain just the edit commands, leaving to the tabs
to show their buttons. You could apply to every button the property to open
the edit/popupmenu by the Ctrl-key down while clicking, and that's all.
The same for the tab labels, and the upper !menus too, if you use them.
here is evening, so
ciao!
antonio
21. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
- Posted by Al Getz <Xaxo at aol.com>
Apr 20, 2006
-
Last edited Apr 21, 2006
Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Antonio,
> >
> > I had implemented the popup menu this morning and am now testing it
> > to see how it works with my everyday stuff. So far, so good, but
> > when i stress tested it (created a lot of tabs) the menu got so
> > long it went from top of screen to bottom of screen, and then you
> > had to scroll on the bottom to get to the remaining items.
> > Total items before that happend was 40, so that's not too bad.
> > I think that's probably more than the number of tabs i'd want to
> > have on any single instance anyway.
> >
> > The menu 'tabs' appear after a menu separater, with the edit
> > commands appearing just before that, but im going to move all
> > the edit commands into their own popup menu at the top of the
> > 'tabs' menu.
> >
> > We also now have the idea of using a list box, and im also thinking
> > about a simple window with hot tracking buttons too, one button for
> > each tab...can be stacked vertically and horizontally like the
> > LaunchPad itself has buttons.
> >
> >
> > Al
> >
>
> Hi AL,
>
> I don't understand something: why do you put items into the popup menu?
> I thought it had to contain just the edit commands, leaving to the tabs
> to show their buttons. You could apply to every button the property to open
> the edit/popupmenu by the Ctrl-key down while clicking, and that's all.
> The same for the tab labels, and the upper !menus too, if you use them.
>
> here is evening, so
> ciao!
>
> antonio
Hi again,
I put the items into the popup menu because that's the original
idea i thought you presented, and i liked it that way. I see
what you mean about using the Ctrl key down, but i would think
that would be better for the 'edit' menu because i want the navigation
to be as fast and simple and easy as possible -- hence every tab name
on the popup menu. The editing will probably be much more infrequent
anyway -- change color, change target path, etc, only once probably,
while navigation will be a daily routine.
You really dont like this?
Actually the code wont be 'that' hard to change anyway the way it
is now, just have to create another menu (one or two lines) and
do a check for the ctl key down and bring up the other menu if
it's down.
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
22. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Al Getz wrote:
>
>
> Hi again,
> I put the items into the popup menu because that's the original
> idea i thought you presented, and i liked it that way. I see
> what you mean about using the Ctrl key down, but i would think
> that would be better for the 'edit' menu because i want the navigation
> to be as fast and simple and easy as possible -- hence every tab name
> on the popup menu. The editing will probably be much more infrequent
> anyway -- change color, change target path, etc, only once probably,
> while navigation will be a daily routine.
>
> You really dont like this?
>
> Actually the code wont be 'that' hard to change anyway the way it
> is now, just have to create another menu (one or two lines) and
> do a check for the ctl key down and bring up the other menu if
> it's down.
>
Hi Al,
don't deduce I do not like that; rather I am confused.
BTW, dealing with a program of yours, it is important
what you like to do; that only can grant the good result!
Well, I'm beginning to believe that it's easier to understand
each other writing some program lines than text messages.
It seemed to me that you were putting all the buttons into the
popup menu, but now I understand you are putting the Tabs, according
to my first answer. The best thing thence is to wait and hash out
the result, instead of filling the "Euforum popup" with other suppositions.
have a nice day
antonio
23. Re: Ideas for Tab Control: the «Load As»
Antonio Alessi wrote:
>
> Al Getz wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi again,
> > I put the items into the popup menu because that's the original
> > idea i thought you presented, and i liked it that way. I see
> > what you mean about using the Ctrl key down, but i would think
> > that would be better for the 'edit' menu because i want the navigation
> > to be as fast and simple and easy as possible -- hence every tab name
> > on the popup menu. The editing will probably be much more infrequent
> > anyway -- change color, change target path, etc, only once probably,
> > while navigation will be a daily routine.
> >
> > You really dont like this?
> >
> > Actually the code wont be 'that' hard to change anyway the way it
> > is now, just have to create another menu (one or two lines) and
> > do a check for the ctl key down and bring up the other menu if
> > it's down.
> >
>
> Hi Al,
>
> don't deduce I do not like that; rather I am confused.
> BTW, dealing with a program of yours, it is important
> what you like to do; that only can grant the good result!
>
> Well, I'm beginning to believe that it's easier to understand
> each other writing some program lines than text messages.
> It seemed to me that you were putting all the buttons into the
> popup menu, but now I understand you are putting the Tabs, according
> to my first answer. The best thing thence is to wait and hash out
> the result, instead of filling the "Euforum popup" with other suppositions.
>
> have a nice day
> antonio
Hi Antonio,
Oh ok, that's cool. I wont have this version ready to go for
a little white yet though.
So far so good...nice colored hot tracking tabs too.
Take care,
Al
And, good luck with your Euphoria programming!
My bumper sticker: "I brake for LED's"
From "Black Knight":
"I can live with losing the good fight,
but i can not live without fighting it".
"Well on second thought, maybe not."
