1. Jiri Babor .. x!
He's ALIVE! :)
Mr. Babor, a couple of questions...
Are you still developing "x" ? If so please post it
to the contributions page so more people can check it
out.
Are you still considering LINUX? Come on over!.
Ken Rhodes
2. Re: Jiri Babor .. x!
Hi, Ken,
> He's ALIVE! :)
Any rumours about my departure from this world are obviously grossly
exagerated. But I also enjoy reading my own obituaries, just as much as
anybody else, so if you have seen any good ones around, please let me
know...
> Are you still developing "x" ?
Not actively, not at the moment, but I am still thinking a lot about it,
and, probably, shall return to it soon. The main problem was that David
Cuny poured a lot of really cold water all over it. And I tend to
respect what David says, despite the fact he comes, philosophically,
almost from the opposite direction. (This is, mind you, just my
impression: David researches his projects reasonably well, decides on a
formula, establishes a proper framework and then sticks to it, no
matter what, with just an occasional glance in the direction of the
market. I, on the other hand, get easily carried away by a crazy idea,
usually quite useless, and do not even attempt any serious research or
forward planning. I just hope like hell the structure of the project
will somehow emerge on its own accord from the initialized mess. And,
of course, I simply lack David's discipline and appetite for work!)
I also wanted to wait for the long promised 2.3 iteration of Euphoria.
That turned out to be a huge disappointment for me, personally.
Basically the message seems to be if you want a radical change, no
matter how desirable it appears to you, there is no point in waiting,
just roll your own... But I must also admit I am only beginning to
appreciate Rob's dilemmas.
> Are you still considering LINUX? Come on over!.
I played with Linux a bit on my old machine last year. It was an MSDOS
install of Peanut 8.4 distribution, painfully slow, not much fun at all.
(Win95 would not allow me to de-fragment the hard drive on that machine,
so I was not able to create Linux partitions...) My new machine
which I gave myself for Christmas, has a separate, dedicated 20 Gb drive
for Linux. At the moment I am exploring Mandrake 8.1 installation, it
looks ok, but I have not done much with it so far.
jiri
3. Re: Jiri Babor .. x!
Jiri,
In regard to "x". I hope you do continue to develop
it. I think you should announce it on the list and get
more feed back, although, like you, I tend to place a
great deal of value in what David says for obvious
reasons. Please remember though that many euphoria
programmers can learn a lot by studying your code and
technique.
Which brings to mind a little project I have been
considering. I have been thinking of collecting code
snippets from the mailing list archives and posting
them to the user contributions page. Would you mind
if I compiled such a collection of your code and
submitted it to Rob? I am thinking of course of having
it listed in your name so that you could receive any
Eu$'s awarded to it, with a note that the collection
was compiled by me. If you like, I could do the "grunt
work" and submit the collection to you for editing,
comments, whatever and you could post it.
I have been thinking of doing this with your postings,
Mike Nelson's, David Cuny's. Not sure if Gabriel
Boehme has posted much to the list or not, but would
certainly think his would be of great value too. Any
suggestions, comments?
A more ambitious project would be to use Davi Figuer~
text2eu program to stuff code snippets into an edb
keyed by topic.
I am dual booting Mandrake 8.0 and Windows ME. The
only reason I installed Windows ME was for all the
consumer bells and whistles junk like voice chat,
webcam support and the like. But after getting used to
programming on Linux, I really cannot stand to mess
with DOS. I hope that this will be your experience as
well, though I fear DOS programming has taken
residence in your soul.
I ramble. Take Care... your good work is deeply
appreciated.
Ken Rhodes
4. Re: Jiri Babor .. x!
jiri wrote:
> The main problem was that David Cuny poured a lot of
> really cold water all over [x].
I certainly don't want to discourage jiri from developing x, I did present
reasons why I didn't think many people would latch onto x. But I tend to be
pretty conservative about programming language features, despite my continued
admiration for Python's functional indentation.
> David researches his projects reasonably well, decides on a
> formula, establishes a proper framework and then sticks to it, no
> matter what, with just an occasional glance in the direction of the
> market.
I'm actually a lot more market driven than jiri lets on - if I don't think
that anyone is likely to use a toolkit (or that a better one exists), I'll
promptly drop the project.
But he's right about research - if someone's already done the work, it's nice
to be able to grab it. I still have a faciniation for "do it yourself"
widgets, but I don't think I'll ever code a Dos32Lib sort of project - not
when there are excellent, free toolkits out there for grabbing.
I got a bit burned out by not being able to easily link Euphoria to C
libraries. That meant that a lot of stuff had to be written from scratch.
Even with the Euphoria source available, it's not entirely trivial to add
another library to Euphoria. In a lot of ways, the release of the Euphoria
source is like the release of exw - it's certainly possible to extend
Euphoria, but that certainly doesn't mean that it's easy. I'll grant that
it's only the initial release, but there's no detailed documentation on the
inner workings of Euphoria. So it's up to each individual to spelunk through
the code. I haven't seen much discussion on the forum from people that are
actually making changes to the code.
I hate to sound so dour about this... For example, I really would like to
extend Euphoria with wxWindows, but I don't think I have the patience or the
enthusiasm for the project - spending my day struggling against a C compiler
isn't my idea of fun. If anyone who has the Euphoria source is interested in
helping with the project, drop me a line!
> And, of course, I simply lack David's discipline and appetite for work!)
I think jiri's the only person in the universe that would associate me with
either discipline or work!
-- David Cuny
5. Re: Jiri Babor .. x!
>> And, of course, I simply lack David's discipline and appetite for work!)
>
>I think jiri's the only person in the universe that would associate me with
>either discipline or work!
>
>-- David Cuny
Then tell us who it was that wrote win32lib, ee editor, Py, wxBasic and at
least half dozen other major pieces, that can think of, for you?
jiri
6. Re: Jiri Babor .. x!
David Cuny writes:
> I'll grant that it's only the initial release, but there's no
> detailed documentation on the inner workings of Euphoria.
I've added an overview document to the source code
for the official release. It describes how things work,
and touches on most of the technically interesting areas.
I've also taken Bernie's suggestion, and implemented
the DJGPP-based DOS interpreter using GNU dynamic labels
to achieve threaded code, just like the Linux interpreter.
It runs at full speed now, "right out of the box".
No code tweaking required.
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
7. Re: Jiri Babor .. x!
On 5 Feb 2002, at 2:48, David Cuny wrote:
<snippage occurred>
> I don't think I'll ever code a Dos32Lib sort of project - not when there are
> excellent, free toolkits out there for grabbing.
>From what i have seen, dos is still more reliable than windows or *nix. There
is no way i'd write mission critical code in windoze or *nix.
> Even with the Euphoria source available, it's not entirely trivial to add
> another library to Euphoria. In a lot of ways, the release of the Euphoria
> source is like the release of exw - it's certainly possible to extend
> Euphoria,
> but that certainly doesn't mean that it's easy. I'll grant that it's only the
> initial release, but there's no detailed documentation on the inner workings
> of
> Euphoria. So it's up to each individual to spelunk through the code. I haven't
> seen much discussion on the forum from people that are actually making changes
> to the code.
I cannot afford to buy the code at this time, or i'd be adding a goto. At least
with interpreted code, this should be easy. It's because of this one lack that i
keep using mirc to do so much, while mirc has no "for", the goto makes up
for that and the missing "while" and "repeat", and Eu lacks "repeat".
<snip>
> > And, of course, I simply lack David's discipline and appetite for work!)
>
> I think jiri's the only person in the universe that would associate me with
> either discipline or work!
David, i think you are amazing.
Kat
