OpenEuphoria

2. Re: Euphoria jobs?

• Posted by Euman <euman at bellsouth.net> Jun 18, 2001
• 436 views

Sure there are jobs that can utilize Euphoria
but none I know of that are specific to Euphoria.

I've been useing Euphoria now for 4 yrs myself
and remember asking the same ? sometime back
maybe to generate some thinking on the issue.

For what it's worth, we are all in control of our own futures here. 
Why not present your technical background in Euphoria to
a company.

Go about it in this way, ask for a TASK from them
to PROVE that it can be EFFICIENTly written in Eu.
With the knowledge that if you do this for the company,
they have to hire you to get it.....SELL YOURSELF and
your TALENTS.

Who knows, it just might work.

BTW, Good luck.

Euman
euman at bellsouth.net


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lewis Townsend" <keroltarr at HOTMAIL.COM>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 23:51
Subject: Euphoria jobs?


> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I haven't posted to the list in a while becuase I have been busy job 
> searching since I graduated. I have moved to Texas (Dallas area) and am 
> searching here. I haven't seriously considdered looking for Euphoria jobs 
> even though I consider myself in the top 10% or 15% of Euphorians skillwise. 
> The reason: there doesn't seem to be any Euphoria jobs out there. However, 
> since my job search has yet to be successful, and I am getting desperate, I 
> think I will give it a try. I have included "Euphoria" in the search 
> keywords on various job search websites but it never seems to turn up 
> anything. However, I haven't yet tried HERE: the Euphoria mailing list. So, 
> anyone hiring? :) Or can anyone give me any tips for getting a Euphoria job? 
> I think Irv Mullins has mentioned that he uses Eu at work. Any advice? Would 
> anyone here pay me to write them a program or two or three? :) Know someone 
> that would?
> I am quite aware of the UNLIKELINESS of finding a Euphoria job that's why 
> I've been looking for a VB job. I don't need any discouraging comments right 
> now. I know there ar a lot more VB jobs out there but most of them require a 
> lot of experience and more in additional technologies that can be used with 
> vb. I have aproximately 2 years vb experience but more than 4 in Eu I think. 
> Rob, how long have I been on this list? I started learning it before that. I 
> have posted 10 things to the Euphoria page over the years and have earned 
> $4.40 in the microeconomy. I could do more but I lack the motivation (read 
> money) I just can't justify spending a lot of time on personal projects when 
> my bank account is dwindleing before my eyes.
> Well, I'll stop my whining now and get back to my job search. I just thought 
> I'd check here for the small chance of a job lead or opening.
> 
> later all,
> Lewis Townsend
> 
> 
> 
>

4. Re: Euphoria jobs?

• Posted by Ray Smith <smithr at ix.net.au> Jun 19, 2001
• 446 views

Hi Lewis,

... this is just my opinion ...

I'd be very surprised if you found any specific Euphoria programming
positions.  I'd also be very surprised if you found anyone even mentioning
Euphoria in a job advertisment.

At this stage (and possibly for ever) "I think" Euphoria would only be used
commercially by a few individuals who happen to use Euphoria as a hobby
as well ... and then they would only use it to do small "one off" tasks.

If you are getting your own contracts to produce software ... then that is
different ... you can use whatever tools you like as long a you produce the
goods. If someone is paying you to produce software they will want
guarantees that your development tools are proven and complete.

I'm not talking about shareware authors ... I'm talking about people paying
you
money to write programs.  There is a world of difference between the two.
There are also hundreds of other languages / compilers / development systems
out there. Some of which have many millions of dollars invested into them
with
project teams consisting of hundreds of people ... other systems are 100%
free,
open source with dozens of people developing them. It's difficult for
Euphoria
to compete with these.

I would definitely push down the VB line and by all means mention Euphoria
in job interviews but don't push the point too far.  IT managers are
constantly
bombarded with  "the next big thing" ... and to be honest ... "Euphoria"
won't
be it.

If you can showcase some nice software you have written using Euphoria it
will
be a great selling point for you to impress employers.  In fact if you can
showcase
nice software developed in any language it would "I beleive" be a great
selling
point.  I've done a bit of interviewing in my time and as long as you apply
for the
right jobs (ie entry level) ... experience isn't the thing I look for.
Enthusiasm and
commitment will get you alot further.  A lack of commercial experience will
make
it more difficult but as long as you keep enthusiastic I have no doubt you
will get a
job.

If you want to program with Euphoria I beleive you will have to be your own
boss
and get your own contracts.

I like Euphoria ... I like using it for my hobbies, but you should be
realistic
about what it is and more importantly what it isn't.  As good as Euphoria is
...
it is developed by one person ... and probably in his spare time.  OK ...
granted
many people contribute libraries but they are mostly not complete, poorly
documented and not fit for commercial use.  I think you would be a very
brave (and probably stupid!) to risk your future livelihood on it.

I know you said don't respond if you have nothing good to say ... and what I
have wrote
is just my opinion ... but if I was you I'd be looking around for a VB job
to pay to bills
and if you still want to program in Euphoria start writing some good
shareware/freeware
programs to get experience then maybe trying to get contract work to develop
specific
software for people.  Saying all that I beleive you should have a look at
what other
languages are available and what type (and quality) of software people are
willing to
pay money for ... and how these development tools help you produce this type
of
software.  I don't think "business" decisions should be made because it is
"fun" to
write programs in a language but more importantly what quality (and type) of
software can be produced with development tool "X".

I'm not sure if there are any shareware mailing lists around but from what I
hear very
few shareware authors make any more than pocket money.
Actually you could ask Rob his opinion on the subject.  I'm not sure how old
Rob is
or if he has any children but ask him if his son (or daughter) asked the
same type of
question how would he respond.  If you where my son (not that I'm old
enough!).
I'd be suggesting you learn as much VB as you can and write some software in
VB
to show employers at interviews ... or just load it on the net and tell them
the URL
to download it ... complete with source code.  If you do this (and are
visually
presentable) and have a good attitude I'd almost guarantee you'll get a job.

If you have any questions I'm sure everyone on the list would be more than
happy
to help in any way they can.

By all means look out for Euphoria jobs ... but look out and be prepared for
other
possibilities as well.  Your future is a very important thing and anyone who
advises
you otherwise won't have your best interests at heart.

All the best

Ray Smith


> I haven't posted to the list in a while becuase I have been busy job
> searching since I graduated. I have moved to Texas (Dallas area) and am
> searching here. I haven't seriously considdered looking for Euphoria jobs
> even though I consider myself in the top 10% or 15% of Euphorians
skillwise.
> The reason: there doesn't seem to be any Euphoria jobs out there. However,
> since my job search has yet to be successful, and I am getting desperate,
I
> think I will give it a try. I have included "Euphoria" in the search
> keywords on various job search websites but it never seems to turn up
> anything. However, I haven't yet tried HERE: the Euphoria mailing list.
So,
> anyone hiring? :) Or can anyone give me any tips for getting a Euphoria
job?
> I think Irv Mullins has mentioned that he uses Eu at work. Any advice?
Would
> anyone here pay me to write them a program or two or three? :) Know
someone
> that would?
> I am quite aware of the UNLIKELINESS of finding a Euphoria job that's why
> I've been looking for a VB job. I don't need any discouraging comments
right
> now. I know there ar a lot more VB jobs out there but most of them require
a
> lot of experience and more in additional technologies that can be used
with
> vb. I have aproximately 2 years vb experience but more than 4 in Eu I
think.
> Rob, how long have I been on this list? I started learning it before that.
I
> have posted 10 things to the Euphoria page over the years and have earned
> $4.40 in the microeconomy. I could do more but I lack the motivation (read
> money) I just can't justify spending a lot of time on personal projects
when
> my bank account is dwindleing before my eyes.
> Well, I'll stop my whining now and get back to my job search. I just
thought
> I'd check here for the small chance of a job lead or opening.
>
> later all,
> Lewis Townsend

6. Re: Euphoria jobs?

• Posted by Irv Mullins <irvm at ellijay.com> Jun 19, 2001
• 418 views

On Tuesday 19 June 2001 01:31, president at insight-concepts.com wrote:

> ... I am actually thinking about having a few software products 
> developed commercially, written in Euphoria.   Euphoria is really great for 
> shareware products. 
> It seems that it is harder for software crackers to crack
> the compiled program. That alone is a selling point. Good luck!!!

Interesting point. Do you think this is true only because crackers are 
unfamiliar with Euphoria, (a situation that will change if it becomes 
widely used) or because of the code shrouding, etc that Rob has provided?

Regards,
Irv

8. Re: Euphoria jobs?

• Posted by gertie at ad-tek.net Jun 19, 2001
• 445 views

On 19 Jun 2001, at 9:53, Irv Mullins wrote:


> 
> On Tuesday 19 June 2001 00:51, Lewis Townsend wrote:
> 
> > Hello all,
> 
> > I am quite aware of the UNLIKELINESS of finding a Euphoria job that's why
> > I've
> > been looking for a VB job. I don't need any discouraging comments right now.
> > I
> > know there ar a lot more VB jobs out there but most of them require a lot of
> > experience and more in additional technologies that can be used with vb. I
> > have aproximately 2 years vb experience but more than 4 in Eu I think. 
> 
> Hi Lewis:
> 
> If someone came to me and asked "Do you have any hammer jobs?",
> that would worry me. If instead that person asked "Got any work for a good
> carpenter?", then he or she would have a much better chance of getting hired.
> And I wouldn't feel the need to wade thru an almost endless list of
> possibilities:  "Can you run a skilsaw, too?", 

Wow, not that *is* being overly specific! The last Skilsaw i bought lasted me 
2 days before a bearing fried on it. I replaced it with a Sears Craftsman 
circular saw, which is what i had been using before (and it had lasted me 21 
years), and haven't had any problems. I'd hate to haveto run thru the list of 
saw manufacturers on a job interview,, but if the employer asked me if i use 
Skilsaws, i'd say no way, they aren't reliable.


> "How about a level - ever used
> one of those?" :)
> 
> If you're specifically looking for a job with a company that has a large
> staff of programmers, then you'll obviously need to be able to work within the
> 'system', that's why _some_ jobs specify VB, or COBOL, or C++, whatever is
> commonly used at that shop. 
> 
> Often, however, such things are specified because a clueless HR 
> person has found those buzz words in a book and thinks they will 
> somehow weed out incompetent people, or because the CEO's 
> nephew uses VB and creates snazzy demos.
> 
> Either way, programming jobs with large companies are becoming 
> harder to get. There are lots of high-tech businesses failing right 
> now. And frankly, these jobs never offered much except good 
> pay which barely made up for the aggravation, anyway.  
> 
> I suggest a different approach: instead of looking for someone 
> who needs a hammer operator, look for someone who needs 
> a problem solved, and suggest that you, yourself,  are just the person 
> who can solve that problem. That's what I have been doing for the 
> past 20 years.
> 
> I rarely have a client express any interest in what software I am using to
> solve
> their computing problems. Most don't know or care at all, as long as the
> software does what they need and doesn't crash. 

The last times anyone asked me for a program, it was to solve a problem, 
and they couldn't tell one puter language from another. Of course, that also 
meant i'd haveto hold their hand 24-7 to use any program too, with a toll-free 
phone number, manuals, etc..

> It is easier and more productive if you begin in familiar territory;
> some type of business that you are already familiar with. What kind 
> of *non-programming* work have you done in the past?
> 
> It also helps to concentrate on smaller businesses, those 
> who can't justify a full-time programming staff. They'll 
> appreciate your efforts more, and there won't be an 
> entrenched bureaucracy to get in the way of you doing 
> your job. Besides, it's much harder to lay off their 'only' 
> programmer.
> 
> One final point - never, not once in the past 40 years, have I gotten a 
> good job from a want-ad or by using a placement service.
> If you rely on those to get work, you're in for a disappointment. 
> I'll elaborate on the methods that _do_ work, if anyone is interested.

I'm interested!

Kat

10. Re: Euphoria jobs?

• Posted by Gerardo <gebrandariz at YAHOO.COM> Jun 19, 2001
• 432 views