1. Euphoria v. (not C)
I posted a message in a CompuServe forum in the C section suggesting that=
people try Euphoria (which was uploaded to that forum by Robert Criag's
Compuserve User ID number). I kept the editorializing short as possible,=
most of it was C.DOC, Euphoria's propaganda pitch to C programmers.
Someone wrote back:
Alan,
So what does it have that Perl or Java or Python or Tcl doesn't have?
John
Any answers, as BASIC and Euphoria are all I really know.
--Alan
=
2. Re: Euphoria v. (not C)
At 05:19 PM 6/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Alan,
>
>So what does it have that Perl or Java or Python or Tcl doesn't have?
>
>John
>
>Any answers, as BASIC and Euphoria are all I really know.
>
>--Alan
>
I don't know about Perl or Java or Python or Tcl - except that
I tried all of them and they were just too much (*&*^% work
to get them do do anything.
Alright, I could have bought a book and learned any one of them,
but why should I? I was using Euphoria in an hour with no
particular trouble, no manual, just the online docs.
(Don't give away the secret, but we know they're the same.)
Irv
3. Re: Euphoria v. (not C)
Alan wrote:
>I posted a message in a CompuServe forum in the C section suggesting =
that
>people try Euphoria (which was uploaded to that forum by Robert Criag's
>Compuserve User ID number). I kept the editorializing short as =
possible,
>most of it was C.DOC, Euphoria's propaganda pitch to C programmers.
>
>Someone wrote back:
>
>Alan,
>
>So what does it have that Perl or Java or Python or Tcl doesn't have?
>
>John
Hmmm. That's a tough one. On that particular forum, I suspect that =
Euphoria loses against most of the languages. All the languages =
mentioned run on several platforms (DOS, Win32, Un*x). They all have =
tons of documentation, and a lot of support. Most have cross-platform =
capabilities, and GUI support. All of them are considered "industrial =
strength". All of the languages have a strong backing of "university" =
coders, since most come from a C/Unix heritage.
This is in contrast to Euphoria, which only runs of the PC, has no =
documentation you could buy "off the shelf", currently has little GUI =
support, and no backing from Berkeley that I know of.
[Perl]
Perl is a specialized pattern matching language, like Awk. I don't know =
that I'd use it for general programming.
[Tcl/TK]
Tcl's strength is TK. Tcl is basically a 'glue' language, letting you =
easily add functions to a macro language. TK makes it easy to add a GUI =
front end. The syntax is logical - and horrible.
[Python]
Python is the successor to ABC - a language I finally abandoned before =
coming back to Euphoria. Python presents some pretty innovative ideas. =
For example, it also uses sequences, so you can write stuff like:
{x,y} =3D position()
which I only *wish* we could do in Euphoria. It also uses indentation =
for program structures, so you would write something like this:
for i =3D 1 to length( s ) do
puts( 1, s & "\n" )
No need for an "end for". It's also interpreted.
But it's got a lot of DLL's that it needs, and the environment isn't as =
friendly.
[Java]
Java is to C++ what Euphoria is to C. It gets rid of pointers, makes =
strings first class citizens, and interprets the code rather than =
compiling it. But like C++, it carries with it the bloat of a large =
class library.
[Conclusion]
I don't know that I'd get involved in a language war. I'd say that, =
similar to Java, Euphoria presents a "more rational" way of coding C - =
no pointers, interpreted code, automatic garbage collection, sequences, =
and a great debugger. It's a very comfortable language for coding small =
to medium applications that might have otherwise been coded in C. And =
the resulting code can be distributed as a fairly small EXE, without =
needing any special DLLs.
If someone was considering coding a DOS project in C, I'd suggest =
Euphoria as an alternative.
-- David Cuny
4. Re: Euphoria v. (not C)
- Posted by Robert Craig <rds at EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Jun 01, 1998
-
Last edited Jun 02, 1998
> So what does it have that Perl or Java or Python or Tcl
> doesn't have?
Perl and Python are 40 to 60 times slower than Euphoria.
That's like a race between a Formula One race car and a tricycle.
Tcl is much slower than Perl and Python.
Euphoria is several times faster than interpreted Java,
but is a bit slower than compiled Java. Java requires
that you re-compile after each change to your source, before
you can test your code. This is true of both compiled and
interpreted Java. Java does not catch uninitialized variables.
How many of you have had an "x has no value" error message
from Euphoria and been glad it was caught, rather than
quietly swept under the rug? Java also lacks the flexibility of
Euphoria, and does not provide dynamic storage allocation
to the same extent as Euphoria.
Re: Python
> It also uses indentation
> for program structures, so you would write something like this:
> for i = 1 to length( s ) do
> puts( 1, s & "\n" )
> No need for an "end for".
I consider this a bug, not a feature. If the
whitespace in your program is off slightly,
Python will quietly misinterpret the logic of your program.
Python programmers must be constantly scrolling up
and down in their editors, making darn sure that large blocks
of code line up properly, especially since there's no indication
of which type of statement is being terminated when you
"exdent" (i.e. stop indenting).
Also, Python's dynamic storage allocation depends to some
extent on programmers remembering to increment or decrement
reference counts at the right times. This is a prescription for
disaster.
Has anyone seen a high-speed action game written
in any of these other languages?
Regards,
Rob Craig
Rapid Deployment Software
5. Re: Euphoria v. (not C)
- Posted by Irv <irv at ELLIJAY.COM>
Jun 01, 1998
-
Last edited Jun 02, 1998
At 09:31 PM 6/1/98 -0400, Rob Craig wrote:
>Re: Python
>> It also uses indentation
>> for program structures, so you would write something like this:
>> for i = 1 to length( s ) do
>> puts( 1, s & "\n" )
>> No need for an "end for".
>
>I consider this a bug, not a feature. If the
>whitespace in your program is off slightly,
>Python will quietly misinterpret the logic of your program.
>Python programmers must be constantly scrolling up
>and down in their editors, making darn sure that large blocks
>of code line up properly, especially since there's no indication
>of which type of statement is being terminated when you
>"exdent" (i.e. stop indenting).
That's not just a bug - it makes the language nearly unusable.
COBOL was bad enough with all those "does not begin in column.."
messages. At least it issued messages.
>Has anyone seen a high-speed action game written
>in any of these other languages?
Touche'
Irv
6. Re: Euphoria v. (not C)
- Posted by Irv <irv at ELLIJAY.COM>
Jun 01, 1998
-
Last edited Jun 02, 1998
At 09:59 PM 6/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>Re: Python
>
Hey, I just visited www.python.org; they averaged 380
hits a day on their website (last week)
My little Euphoria page has averaged 347 per day over
the same period.
Why? I don't know, but there was a huge jump in traffic
beginning about two weeks ago.
Anyway, the stats are there (click on web stats)
along with a few new and updated programs.
http://www.mindspring.com/~mountains
Irv
7. Re: Euphoria v. (not C)
mountains at MINDSPRING.COM wrote:
> At 05:19 PM 6/1/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Alan,
> >
> >So what does it have that Perl or Java or Python or Tcl doesn't have?
> >
> >John
> >
> >Any answers, as BASIC and Euphoria are all I really know.
> >
> >--Alan
> >
> I don't know about Perl or Java or Python or Tcl - except that
> I tried all of them and they were just too much (*&*^% work
> to get them do do anything.
>
> Alright, I could have bought a book and learned any one of them,
> but why should I? I was using Euphoria in an hour with no
> particular trouble, no manual, just the online docs.
> (Don't give away the secret, but we know they're the same.)
>
> Irv
Same with me... (sorta) I have tried Perl, and it was a real bitch to
understand (to do CGI's, SURPRISE! someone helps me in my venture for a
perfect site,) Java, I am trying, even did a document.open() with much
hassle! I am not sure if I told people how I got here... I was looking for
how to do C, typing in "programming language" into the search field... and
later, I saw Euphoria programming language... first thought...
C-relative... might as well try it... Afterwards, I had the basics to
Euphoria... even decided to print a manual (that later got trashed...)
read the docs with the zip... and I was off! and now, this list is a big
jump into Euphoria, and now I am understanding it more and more.
"LEVIATHAN"
