1. OpenEuphoria community proposal
- Posted by ryanj Jan 28, 2015
- 2088 views
I was thinking about how the Open Euphoria website could be enhanced to improve communication among the users of Euphoria. I have a few specific ideas:
Articles
I feel that we need a way to officially publish information to the community as a strategy for encouraging involvement, sparking interest or ideas, and summarizing important developments. This would also make our home page much more interesting to potential new users. Also, images could be put in articles so the home page will have an eye-catching image that changes with each article.
Implementation
On the home page, make two columns: Current News and Articles. Articles would be a chronological list just like the News list, but it would have creole-syntax articles in it instead of news items. Certain users could be given admin access to update articles at least once a month. I would be willing to be in charge of maintaining articles. Some articles, i would write myself. Others could be taken from well-written wiki pages written by other users. Articles can cover different topics such as:
- showcase a specific library or application that has recently been updated, showing why it could be useful to the community, maybe even "email interview" the author to get info before writing the article
- highlight a specific feature of Euphoria and give some tips and examples of how to use it, to spark some interest and ideas
- explain development issues, bringing attention to things that need to be worked on, or summarize recent developments so people know important details of what is going on without sifting through dozens of forum threads
- success stories or research findings related to euphoria, or user experiences attempting to do things with euphoria such as using on specific platforms, comparisons with other languages, performance tests, etc.
- other technology developments that may be of interest to euphoria programmers
Image Gallery
It would be nice to have images in news, articles, forum posts, and wiki pages without relying on 3rd party websites that could change, causing broken image links. I think it is important to be able to show logos, screenshots, and diagrams at times.
Implementation
A page could be added to allow logged-in users to upload images to a gallery. Perhaps a link to the gallery could be added to the Misc Menu under Pastey. They could be moderated much like forum posts: put them in an "awaiting approval" list so an admin can make sure they are relevant and appropriate. Any image in the gallery could be referenced in creole text such as {{gallery:logo.jpg}}. If an image hasn't been approved yet, it would just show a placeholder image saying "image awaiting approval".
Projects
I believe that it is really important for the Euphoria community to have a centralized list of important projects in a consistent format. Yeah, we have the eu archive to upload files, and yeah, we can post stuff on the forum about projects, but i just think that's not good enough. We need to improve our marketing of what euphoria is actually being used for and what libraries are current and relevant without sifting through hundreds of entries. It would be very beneficial to have a system in place for project developers to post updates, screenshots, and important information about their euphoria projects. This would not replace the euphoria archive. The archive is great for archiving files, but we need a way to show everyone the important projects being worked on.
Implementation
A tab could be added between "forum" and "wiki" called "projects". It would show a table of libraries and applications that have been written in Euphoria. This list of projects could be searched and categorized and updated by any logged-in users. Each entry in the table could have the following fields:
- Project Title
- Project Type: library, application, other
- Rating: 0 to 5 stars or Thumbs up/Thumbs down or "Community Approved" status, indicating it is proven to be safe, reliable, to be taken seriously, etc.
- Author name
- Platforms compatible(windows, linux, bsd, etc.)
- Euphoria versions compatible (3.x, 4.x, 4.0.5, 4.1, 4.1 64 bit, etc.)
- Date updated
- Updated by (user name)
- Latest version
- Content (creole text used to explain the project and it's current status, links to wiki pages or forum posts related to the project, additional images related to the project, etc.)
- Filename (link to file uploaded to the rapideuphoria.com archive)
- Screenshot (link to image in gallery)
- Website (official website related to the project)
I believe these features would go a long way in providing a better website for the community. Not that we don't have a good website. But, it would a great improvement. I have some other ideas, but i'll just leave it at that for now. Thoughts? Let's discuss.
2. Re: OpenEuphoria community proposal
- Posted by katsmeow Jan 28, 2015
- 2046 views
Ryan, i laud your ideas, but sadly, some have been proposed before, and rejected.
If you were to write an article extolling the benefits of Eu vs any other language, what is there to talk about except sequences and binding? Tossing "speed" into the bragging is a red herring, it doesn't matter how fast a language is if it doesn't have the features one needs.
Regarding votes and values, that's all in the eye of the beholder, those people needing those functions. I still have no use for hashes or maps or regex. I do use tasks and "goto" and the socks libs. I can think of several functions mentioned over the years which were boisterously derided (the kindest words i can come up with right now), only to be used later.
I suggested user archives on openeuphoria.org for libs and apps donated, which run on OE and not RDS's versions. This was roundly shot down as politically slapping Robert Craig in the face. I still support it, as i support a link here to point over to RDS.
Adding pictures and video could be helpful to the articles pages. There is a difference between new.e distributed by EO devs and the version which actually uses tasks and runs totally asynchronously, and it seems i cannot tell anyone using words.
I think there is considerable overlap in each of your suggestions, but all good ideas.
Kat
3. Re: OpenEuphoria community proposal
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Jan 28, 2015
- 2131 views
Ryan, i laud your ideas, but sadly, some have been proposed before, and rejected.
Hmm. I don't recall a single one of ryanj's ideas being proposed before, let alone being rejected.
If you were to write an article extolling the benefits of Eu vs any other language, what is there to talk about except sequences and binding? Tossing "speed" into the bragging is a red herring, it doesn't matter how fast a language is if it doesn't have the features one needs.
This is a good point. Still, I think there are other plusses to talk about in comparision, such as the benefits of using the new stdlib. Tom has already worked on similar documentation for Eu in the past.
I suggested user archives on openeuphoria.org for libs and apps donated, which run on OE and not RDS's versions. This was roundly shot down as politically slapping Robert Craig in the face. I still support it,
Well, it was Rob who shot it down. Jeremy was the first one who proposed this IIRC, back in 2008 or so, with the new forum, only to be told no. (The exchange was between a member of RDS and Jeremy, iirc. The rest of the dev team wasn't involved.)
as i support a link here to point over to RDS.
I see what ryanj is proposing as different. A project page for win32lib (for example) would look more like a wikipedia entry than the short blurb and download for the archives.
Also, not every contribution to the archive is necessarily the result of the formation of a project team. (Of course, one can have one-person project teams. Whether or not a project team, and thus a project, exists is in the eyes of the authors.) Thus, not every contribution would necessarily have a project page. The reverse is also true - some project teams might have their own website and offer their own downloads, but choose not to submit it to the archives.
Thus, while some overlap might exist, this is something new and different from the user archives at RDS.
Adding pictures and video could be helpful to the articles pages. There is a difference between new.e distributed by EO devs and the version which actually uses tasks and runs totally asynchronously, and it seems i cannot tell anyone using words.
If sharing pictures and videos can help you articulate that better, I have no objection to it.
4. Re: OpenEuphoria community proposal
- Posted by ryanj Jan 30, 2015
- 2193 views
Ryan, i laud your ideas, but sadly, some have been proposed before, and rejected.
Hmm. I don't recall a single one of ryanj's ideas being proposed before, let alone being rejected.
I suggested user archives on openeuphoria.org for libs and apps donated, which run on OE and not RDS's versions. This was roundly shot down as politically slapping Robert Craig in the face. I still support it,
Well, it was Rob who shot it down. Jeremy was the first one who proposed this IIRC, back in 2008 or so, with the new forum, only to be told no. (The exchange was between a member of RDS and Jeremy, iirc. The rest of the dev team wasn't involved.)
Actually, my Projects proposal is an attempt to revive that idea in a way that doesn't compete with the RDS archive. As for my other proposals, they have have been proposed before, but rejected and forgotten because apparently nobody had time to work on the website.
as i support a link here to point over to RDS.
I see what ryanj is proposing as different. A project page for win32lib (for example) would look more like a wikipedia entry than the short blurb and download for the archives.
Also, not every contribution to the archive is necessarily the result of the formation of a project team. (Of course, one can have one-person project teams. Whether or not a project team, and thus a project, exists is in the eyes of the authors.) Thus, not every contribution would necessarily have a project page. The reverse is also true - some project teams might have their own website and offer their own downloads, but choose not to submit it to the archives.
Thus, while some overlap might exist, this is something new and different from the user archives at RDS.
Exactly. The idea is to have more than just files to download. We need a centralized project information system. Let's consider win32lib, for example. It isn't very clear what the status is of that, where to download the latest version, what website is the "official" one, etc. But with a Projects section, you could simply look up the win32lib entry in the Projects list and click on it. You see who worked on it, what version is current, when it was released, what versions of euphoria or platforms it runs on, and a link to download it. Also, you can see a list of forum threads related to it (see my other proposal, http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/126525.wc), the Win32Lib wiki page, and a link to the project's website (i think it is http://sourceforge.net/projects/win32libex/ but i'm not sure). Then, the wiki page about it could be updated with useful information about it.
So, who is going to implement this?
5. Re: OpenEuphoria community proposal
- Posted by jimcbrown (admin) Jan 31, 2015
- 1968 views
Actually, my Projects proposal is an attempt to revive that idea in a way that doesn't compete with the RDS archive.
The idea is to have more than just files to download. We need a centralized project information system. Let's consider win32lib, for example. It isn't very clear what the status is of that, where to download the latest version, what website is the "official" one, etc. But with a Projects section, you could simply look up the win32lib entry in the Projects list and click on it. You see who worked on it, what version is current, when it was released, what versions of euphoria or platforms it runs on, and a link to download it. Also, you can see a list of forum threads related to it (see my other proposal, http://openeuphoria.org/forum/m/126525.wc), the Win32Lib wiki page, and a link to the project's website (i think it is http://sourceforge.net/projects/win32libex/ but i'm not sure). Then, the wiki page about it could be updated with useful information about it.
That's why I think it has a much better chance of success.
As for my other proposals, they have have been proposed before, but rejected and forgotten because apparently nobody had time to work on the website.
When were they rejected and by whom? Being forgotten (since no one has time to do major work on the website) is understandable, but different from being rejected.
So, who is going to implement this?
Always asking the hard questions!
6. Re: OpenEuphoria community proposal
- Posted by ryanj Jan 31, 2015
- 1925 views
As for my other proposals, they have have been proposed before, but rejected and forgotten because apparently nobody had time to work on the website.
When were they rejected and by whom? Being forgotten (since no one has time to do major work on the website) is understandable, but different from being rejected.
To clarify, they were "rejected" not because they were declared to be bad ideas, but simply because nobody wanted to spend the time to implement them.
So, who is going to implement this?
Always asking the hard questions!
Yes, i am. Muahahaha!
7. Re: OpenEuphoria community proposal
- Posted by Icy_Viking Jan 31, 2015
- 1858 views
I really like the Projects idea. I think it should be implemented, if it can be.
8. Re: OpenEuphoria community proposal
- Posted by Spock Feb 03, 2015
- 1852 views
Ryan, i laud your ideas, but sadly, some have been proposed before, and rejected.
If you were to write an article extolling the benefits of Eu vs any other language, what is there to talk about except sequences and binding? Tossing "speed" into the bragging is a red herring, it doesn't matter how fast a language is if it doesn't have the features one needs..
I would consider speed in itself to be a worthwhile "feature" since faster programs are more generally useful. Graphical applications (isn't everything graphical these days?) do require speed. Of course, Euphoria is only speedy in comparison to other slower languages (implementations). Personally, I am just sick of having to laboriously code ASM routines for my graphics library.
Regarding votes and values, that's all in the eye of the beholder, those people needing those functions. I still have no use for hashes or maps or regex..
I used to think like that until I started using them (well, my own versions of them). Eg, Regex can express some patterns much more concisely than other methods. If you do any sort of non-trivial parsing it can cut down your work load, albeit at the expense of program speed.
However, the way Regex developed over the years has meant that parsing patterns can be so cryptic/obsfucated they more resemble line noise (or Perl programs) than anything sane.
I think a better way would actually be to use a mini specialist parsing language - which nobody will write for obvious reasons: Nobody wants to, few have the skills to do so, the end user will be too tempted to follow the internet crowd and just use normal Regex.
Your idea of string execution is great. More on this later..
Spock
9. Re: OpenEuphoria community proposal
- Posted by Ekhnat0n Feb 10, 2015
- 1706 views
Ryan, i laud your ideas, but sadly, some have been proposed before, and rejected.
If you were to write an article extolling the benefits of Eu vs any other language, what is there to talk about except sequences and binding? Tossing "speed" into the bragging is a red herring, it doesn't matter how fast a language is if it doesn't have the features one needs..
I would consider speed in itself to be a worthwhile "feature" since faster programs are more generally useful. Graphical applications (isn't everything graphical these days?) do require speed. Of course, Euphoria is only speedy in comparison to other slower languages (implementations). Personally, I am just sick of having to laboriously code ASM routines for my graphics library.
Regarding votes and values, that's all in the eye of the beholder, those people needing those functions. I still have no use for hashes or maps or regex..
If no-one is willing to jump to this idea I am willing to offer part of my webspace to implement Ryan's idea
and am willing to set up a dedicated server as soon as I can come up with the money to do so.
I implore Eumario to remember the help I gave him back in 2003/2004 and refund that to me
so I will be able to set up that server
