Re: Accented characters in identifiers
Robert Craig wrote:
> Juergen Luethje wrote:
>> Robert Craig wrote:
>>> CChris wrote:
>>>> Currently, Eu interprets characters with the most significant bit set as
>>>> opcodes. Only old shrouded files store Eu opcodes this way.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't it time to remove that restriction, so as to be able to use non
>>>> english identifiers in programs? Other languages frequently use accented
>>>> characters.
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree. I'll do that fairly soon, if nobody objects.
>>> Others, such as Igor Kachan, have also mentioned the lack of support
>>> for the higher ASCII codes for non-English languages.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Sorry, I don't think that this is a good idea, because:
>>
>> a) The usage of this feature will bring a considerable disadvantage.
>> When someone creates identifiers that contain special characters of
>> her/his language, it is likely that other people somewhwre else in
>> the world will have problems to read that code.
>> You recently reminded us of a post from you on 12 Feb 2002:
>> <<a
>> href="http://www.listfilter.com/cgi-bin/esearch.exu?fromMonth=2&fromYear=7&toMonth=2&toYear=7&postedBy=rds&keywords=declaration+initialize">http://www.listfilter.com/cgi-bin/esearch.exu?fromMonth=2&fromYear=7&toMonth=2&toYear=7&postedBy=rds&keywords=declaration+initialize</a>>
>>
>> In this message it reads:
>> | I like it better the way it is. You could argue that I don't have to
>> | use variable inits if I don't want to. You could argue that I don't
>> | have to use goto if I don't want to. A language does not exist just
>> | to serve the isolated programmer. It exists to serve a community
>> | of programmers. In situations where it really doesn't matter
>> | how something is written, I think there are advantages to
>> | reducing the number of choices.
>>
>> IMHO the same is true concerning special characters in identifiers,
>> especially since many of them are not equal in different languages.
>> The Euphoria community is small enough, Euphoria shouldn't encourage
>> people to write code that can only be read by a fraction of this
>> small community.
>>
>> b) It is not necessary at all. We currently have a sufficient number of
>> characters for creating identifiers. The German language also has
>> some special characters, but I _never_ had the need to use one of
>> them in an identifier.
>
> OK, thanks for that insight.
> I guess I'll hold off, for at least several days,
> until we hear from some other non-English programmers.
Many of xUSSR programmers just scruple of their not
very good English to discuss these things here ...
So let me please take the second voice - I'm not
too modest anyway, you do know 
And this my second voice says that the modern educational
BlackBox system well known in Russia (by Oberon microsystems,
Inc. Switzerland) does support the identifiers above 127
with some tecnical exception.
> It just seemed to me that if I had to do without
> some of the English alphabet in my identifiers,
> it would be annoying to me, so I figured it must be
> annoying to non-English programmers.
... to learn English and to look for Latinic
letters on Russian (totally different) keyboard
just to begin programming from the simplest:
puts(1,"Hello World!")
I have to say that anyway any professional programmer
must to learn and know English well enough, but I do
know some very talented persons who are almost
absolutelly unapt to learn a foreign language.
And I have to say that just only switching of
the different registers of keyboard (Lat - Rus)
is very annoying, for me too, but programming
in *pure* Russian or in *pure* English both
are handy - if without that perpetual switching.
> Also, if someone creates identifiers that are not
> English-related, I wouldn't understand them anyway,
> regardless of whether they contain accents or
> funny-looking characters.
Rob, I think now you are one of those very talented
persons who are almost absolutelly unapt to learn
Russian, no?
> I guess it could be a problem though if some characters
> resemble punctuation and other confusing shapes,
> like some of the English ASCII 128-255 characters do on my
> English region computer.
If you have a proper code page set up on your machine,
all things will be clear without these confusing shapes.
I must to say that I do understand all Juergen's objections
very well, but, sorry, can not agree.
Regards,
Igor Kachan
kinz at peterlink.ru
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