Ken's abrasiveness
Jeremy Cowgar wrote:
>
> ken mortenson wrote:
> >
> > Version 5 may turn out to be a gutting of version 4.
To understand this comment you must understand it only applies in a world
I wished I lived in. This is not the real world and I have no expectation
it will happen. Euphoria was a glimmer of hope for me. Hope fades.
One man wrote Euphoria. My expectation is that a committee seldom has as
clear a vision. I'm sorry if this sounds so negative. If fact, I am a
hopeful person (overly, it often turns out.)
> Ken,
>
> You speak to others as though the are immature and as though you have been
> enlightened by the programming gods.
Actually, I'm only half god on my fathers side. 
Ok, maybe humor isn't an
appropriate response. Everybody (I am included in the set of everybody) is
more or less immature. Maturity is far off in the distance with regard to
humanity. That's a declarative statement with no support offered. I do that.
A lot. It's abrasive. I don't want to offend. Maturity on my part would
suggest I hold my tongue more often (no matter if I am right or wrong.)
Probably my enthusiasm for being part of a social group is a bit too much.
Now the other side of the coin. Am I enlightened. I would hope so, aren't you?
If the lightbulbs never went off we'd all still be stratching cave paintings
(which would be sad for me since I really have no artistic ability whatsoever.)
I state my opinions in a direct manner. I do not hold myself above others.
Let me repeat that because it seems to get lost somehow...
I. DO. NOT. HOLD. MY. SELF. ABOVE. OTHERS.
Yes, I may give the impression. Let's say I do give that impression.
The impression is not the reality.
> There are many very intelligent people here on EUforum
You believe I don't appreciate that??? Then I'm sorry. Because it is my
appreciation which is at issue I can categorically assert this to be false.
> who have vast amounts of professional programming experience who have
> studied language design who have programmed millions of lines of code
> and finally who are not dumb.
Again. Why do you think I don't know this? I assume the answer is in my
speech patterns. There is room for give and take on both our parts.
> The way you speak is condescending and irritating to many people.
I can only plead that it is not meant to be so. But I understand the
perception.
> You have said such things as:
>
> "but the rewards (this is just one of many voices of experience) are
> more than you know."
I stand by this statement. People that have not experienced GOTOLESS
programming (and it may take years) lack the appreciation for the experience.
I've never done drugs. I know some who have. When they tell me I lack
appreciation for the experience I am forced to agree.
If I tell you that you lack an experience which you do in fact lack. You can
say I'm being derogatory (which is an immature response) or you can accept
the observation as a simple observation. I've never been able to water ski.
Should I feel I am less than people that can? Should you or anybody else?
If anyone feels picked on when there is ABSOLUTELY NO INTENT to do so, then
perhaps my response should be... BOO FREAKIN HOO. Because frankly there is
a part of me that says, this isn't entirely my issue.
>
> "With all due respect, this is incorrect."
You're right. I should have left the due respect part off, because obviously
it was dismissed by those that read it. Do you appreciate that 'this is
incorrect' is an opinion? Am I not entitled?
> "Back in the day, I thought I could never live without ON X GOTO, as well as
> ON X GOSUB. I have matured quite a bit since then."
I would hope that after thirty years in a profession everybody could assert
this last assertion. I certainly wouldn't hold it against you if you made
the assertion about yourself.
> "This isn't the only problem related to GOTO's but it is perhaps the easiest
> to perceive."
Some people imagine that GOTOs are not a problem because they use them and
are comfortable with them. Not to pick on Kat, but my comment about
equivalent code is an example of how easy it is to perceive the problem.
Granted her focus was on labeling, but I can't help but notice that eleven
out of twelve code groups could never be reached. Perhaps I'm an ass for
pointing that out. This is what makes it easier to perceive than other
equally damaging issues.
>
> "A programmer after my own heart (soon you will achieve oneness...)"
This is humor that obviously fell flat.
> "I am but a simple and humble servant to whatever is true."
You have no idea (be offended if you like because I'm so wound up at this
point that I no longer care) but I really do feel that striving for truth
is a noble goal. I wish we all could hold such a goal dear.
> So, I am not complaining, rebuking or upset, I am merely letting you know that
> your style of speaking is not helping your cause.
I'll take you at your word. In this case, I am certain that you are right.
I hope you will wish me to overcome those aspects of my (lack of)
communication skills that prompt your comments.
> In addition to this, please
> when making a statement provide information to back it up. I do not wish to
> go back and pick out more quotes, but statements such as "that's ugly", "it's
> bad practice", "..." says who? Can you give examples? Can you prove your
> point?
> An opinion is not worth much in today's world. Please provide real content.
A good observation. I do have a habit of stating unsubstantiated opinion.
I do have support for what I say, but I am not so organized and my memory
often fails me.
For example you may note that I made a post which concedes that Euphoria
can be coded in a finely granular modular way. My experience is that
without a development environment that is supportive it, it fails as
practical matter. This is an important issue for me, because I want a
productivity tool and I'm tired of the limitations VB imposes on me.
I'm going to take a break from posting. I have hopes that I expect will
never be realized. If I had the skill, I would write the compiler I
envision. Sadly, I know that I don't possess this skill at this time.
Please, don't miss the fact that I have a high regard for the people on this
forum.
Is enlightenment so rare that none of us are allowed glimpses of it?
I'm going to leave it at that. I'm not sure I've said what I need to say,
but language is such an imperfect thing anyway. I only hate evil people.
I've met evil. None of you fit into that category.
Warm regards, ken.
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