ATTN: Derek Re: Euphoria needs more popularity!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Craig" <guest at RapidEuphoria.com>
To: <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Euphoria needs more popularity!
>
>
> posted by: Robert Craig <rds at RapidEuphoria.com>
>
> Derek Parnell wrote:
> > Version 2.0 Official Release March 25, 1998
> > + 12 months
> > Version 2.1 Official Release for WIN32 + DOS32 March 29, 1999
> > + 10 months
> > Version 2.2 Official Release for WIN32+DOS32 January 14, 2000
> > + 25 months
>
> During that time I spent a year designing, developing and porting the
> Euphoria to C Translator to 4 platforms and 7 different C compilers.
> I should have merged that information into the release notes.
>
> > Version 2.3 Official Release February 11, 2002
> > + 18 months
> > Version 2.4 Official Release July 3, 2003
> > + 18 months?
> > Version 2.5 ?December, 2004?
> > That's right, we have moved from v2.0 to v2.5 in 6.5 years. Not Fast.
>
> Maybe I should call the next one 3.0. Will that help?
>
> Isn't Win32Lib officially still an "alpha" release, 0.60.5,
> after those same 6.5 years? 
>
Ya know, he's right.
Euphoria is a work of art in progress:
DON'T RUSH IT.
> > RDS is slow to release anything, and they keep declining offers of help.
> > Could this be another reason for people being discouraged?
> >
> > Yes, I know there is a shitload of work to get out a new release, but
> > there is also many able people to help, if only you'd let them.
>
> Yeah, I heard you can produce a baby in 1 month by
> assigning 9 women to the job.
>
Once again, he is quite justified with his sarcasm. I know from programming
what a pain it is to implement some fix or another every time someone sends
me one.
It isn't too hard to implement some things (like Tommy sending me a icon)
However, when you have 30+ people sending you 10+ suggestions every month,
it gets hard.
I appreciate the hard work Rob puts into Euphoria, and I'm willing to wait
for the next release (even though I'm *Really* anxious to get my hands on
the x[1..$] and the error handler features ) :)
You need to understand the pressure Rob takes on in writing the language.
Read: LAY OFF, will ya?
> > I would prefer a major release every 6 months with weekly minor (patch)
> > releases, instead of this cold molasses.
>
> That's what I keep telling myself.
> It just never works out that way.
> There's just a lot of overhead in getting
> a new release out, plus when do I charge for an upgrade?
> I'll give it some thought.
>
This too I can understand. He uses a setup utility, so new releases that
often is tough.
However, Rob, if you are wondering about pricing, here is what I would
suggest:
Plan 1)
Whenever you make a major upgrade (i.e. 2.x to 3.y), charge the normal
upgrade price.
Whenever you make a minor upgrade (i.e. x.1 to x.y), make it free.
Plan 2)
Do only little upgrades, and charge $2 per.
> > Perfection is not so nearly
> > as important as improvement. Having a perfect product that doesn't meet
> > my needs is not much use. Having a nearly perfect product that I can
still
> > use is a much better prospect.
> >
Your twisting things around here. A perfect product *will* meet your needs
and more.
In this crooked world, nothing is perfect. (Euphoria does come the closest
to it, however.)
Fact of the matter is, their will *****ALWAYS***** be something more I could
ask for in Euphoria.
There is nothing Euphoria can't do that C can do, though I openly admit that
there are somethings that are done much easier in C than Eu.
Derek, there is an important character lesson here: Contentment and
patience. Be content with what you have in Euphoria, and when you want more,
be patient for it.
> > Robert,
> > Are you using beta testers?
>
> Every official release comes after an alpha and a beta
> release. Earlier releases would waste my time on
> handling a lot of bug reports and questions. I have tons of
> existing Euphoria code I can use as testing fodder.
>
Well there you go. :)
> > Has anyone impartially inspected or reviewed your code?
>
> Not besides Junko, but very soon the entire world will
> be able to inspect the front-end of Euphoria, and everyone will
> own a complete Euphoria interpreter with 100% Euphoria source code,
> able to run all Euphoria programs on all platforms.
>
That I think is a bit obvious.
> > Do you have a formal(-ish) issue log that you are working through?
>
> Yes.
>
> > Do you need more man-hours in the day to work on Euphoria?
>
> Of course.
>
Who doesn't? I, personally, have to allocate my time as follows:
10 hours sleeping
15 hours programming
1 hour eating
2 hours playing
3 hours talking
_____________
31 hours per day.
> > Sorry to sound so frustrated, but I am. I love Euphoria and I continue
> > to champion it, but I also begin to tire.
>
So do I. But the difference between you and me is this:
I don't complain.
> I thank you for your patience, and your tremendous
> efforts on Win32Lib. Euphoria would be in deep trouble without you.
>
> I'd like to speed up my progress too. I have been slacking
> off a bit, but you have to give me credit for sticking with
> this project for 15 years (since initial design - 1.0 was
> released 11 years ago). But I would certainly turn it over to
> the masses if I couldn't or didn't want to continue.
>
As an ADHD child: I look up to that fact. It's hard for me to concentrate on
1 thing and not abandon it.
> Regards,
> Rob Craig
> Rapid Deployment Software
> http://www.RapidEuphoria.com
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