RE: Challenge for speed freaks
Irv Mullins wrote:
> Why, if Euphoria is so much faster, are there hundreds or thousands of
> people
> who use perl, python, or java, etc. for every person who uses Euphoria.
Perl, Python and Java are free.
This is a huge factor!!!!
Everyone wants a free lunch. Even though the price of Euphoria
is inexpensive it's the concept behind it.
Perl I have heard is very fast at text processing.
I'm sure there would be a large number of programs (text manipulation)
that would run faster in Perl. I haven't seen any action games in
Perl ... but that isn't the aim of the language.
Python and Java have been built from the ground up as OOP languages.
Perl has been adapted to support OOP.
This is another huge factor.
As much as everyone on this list keeps saying they can live without
classes everyone else in the world says they can't.
Classes are a very powerful tool and I'd be very surprised if you
could name one "newly" developed NON OOP language that has been
successful in the last 10 years.
Do you think a couple of dozen people on a mailing list are going to
change the rest of the worlds mind re OOP?
The 3 languages you mention are highly portable.
I know that Java and Python have threads support, exception handling,
many many more libraries available ... most freely downloadable.
> Why do the bookshelves contain dozens of books on perl, python, and
> java,
> etc. but none for Euphoria?
A simple question of user base.
It wasn't that long ago (2 years - probably 3!) that the first
Python book was released.
> Why do computer magazines run articles on these other languages, but
> make no mention of Euphoria?
user base again.
> Could it be that *fast* just isn't the most important criteria for most
> programmers?
Three of the really big selling points for Euphoria are:
"fast",
"simple", and
"small".
With the processing power of pc's these days is speed a real issue?
Except for specialized applications like action games, 3d modelling,
simulations etc speed is almost a non issue.
For these specialised cases you can still write sub routines in C.
Just like we do for Euphoria.
Simple is a great thing to have. Simple doesn't have to mean you
don't have threads, or classes, or exception handling. It just means
when you do have these things they are implemented in a consistant
well structured way.
If they "are" implemented and people don't want to use them ...
then they don't!
Small! - who copies files by floppy disk anymore?
All these other languages have 10mb or more downloads,
no one cares. It takes maybe an hour on a standard modem to download
them.
How much effort do people put into developing applications?
Is an extra hour to setup, and an extra 50MB of disk space going to
stop anyone from using Euphoria? I'd say no.
> I don't buy the argument that marketing makes the difference, either -
> a lot of money has been spent to promote Java, but the rest? Not that
> I know of.
How many of these popular languages are developed by one person?
It's impossible, can't be done.
I don't mean this is an offense way Rob (if your reading!),
but what major software development project has become successful
by the authors just "seeing" what happens and not having any long
term plans or goals? That's Robs way, that's his choice and no one
can judge him and say he's wrong. What I can say is success won't
come knocking on your door!
For the PRO side:
It's a bit harsh to look at some popular languages and say
"why isn't Euphoria like language X!"
Java is a product developed by hundreds of people.
Python has commercial backing and has a number of full time staff
developing as well as a large band of eager users.
You mention 3 popular languages. If you do a web search there are
probably a couple of hundred other languages around all struggling to
find users and developers. You'll also find alot of languages with
"this page last updated" sometime well into the last century!
Everyone's use of Euphoria is there own choice. Personally I would be
very careful depending on it to much for commercial apps.
The rate of change in the IT industry is rapid and integrating with
different systems increases at huge rates.
Where are SOAP, DCOM and and Corba add ons?
If you have an app and your client asked for one of these what do u do?
if you are using Java, Visual Basic C# etc ... you just add the
componant to your project, read the doco and start coding.
You don't have time to invent the wheel at every step, you'll quickly
go broke.
if (like me) use Euphoria as a hobby it doesn't matter if you a SOAP
interface or not. You can still go and write one if you want but if
it takes a year no one cares.
Irv, you have to look at Euphoria for what it is now.
You have to understand it's limitations and strengths.
I think learning Python is great move to make, but you shouldn't
forget Euphoria either. You wouldn't have been here so long if
you didn't enjoy it.
I should know what I'm talking about because I have thought like you
many times before. At one stage I didn't use Euphoria for over a year!
Anyway .. enough rambling. I'm struggling with Latex codes trying
to get the first couple of chapters formatted correctly.
What excellent tools are available, Latex, GhostScript, GhostView,
it's amazing what's out there!
Ray Smith
http://www.geocities.com/ray_223
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