Re: Black Plague + Eu concerns
Vincent wrote:
>
>
> Correct, Microsoft still supports their MFC (Microsoft Foundation Class)
> library with
> their Visual C++ compiler. Visual C++ is now a hybrid Native and MSIL
> compiler. Its
> 2005 version will support the current ISO C++ and CLR .NET v2.0 specification.
So far Microsoft's support for language standards has been utter crap. They've
never implemented a fully standard version of C or C+.
> Win32 and COM development will still be 100% supported, even emulated DOS will
> be available.
> However, if you wanted to make use of WinFX with Euphoria, one of three things
> must
> happen first:
>
> 1) Euphoria for Windows to become a object-oriented .NET enabled language,
> with a seperate
> byte code compiler to produce MSIL, it would have to be completely compliant
> with the
> latest CLR specification.
>
> 2) A .NET bridge for Euphoria, that would wrap the .NET runtime into C++
> compiled DLLs,
> then an additional Euphoria wrappers for those DLLs.
>
> 3) An Euphoria to MSIL translator, that would effectively convert normal
> Euphoria code
> to Microsoft IL, to be executed by their JIT compiler.
>
> The first option is the recommended, but any of these would be very complex &
> difficult/daunting
> task, especially since Euphoria is not even an object-oriented language, were
> as .NET is
> an advanced fully object-oriented platform like Java. All these options would
> require the
> .NET framework redistributable runtime too.
What's more likely I think is that there'll be a separate product that'll
compile it for you or something assuming Rob even decides to port it to .NET at
all. Also, the ideal would be the third choice and not the first. Euphoria isn't
object oriented now so I doubt it'd be overhauled just for a single new platform.
> > Judging by all previous Microsoft Windows upgrades,
> > I think you can assume:
> >
> > - it will be delivered late
> >
>
> Winter 2006, maybe delayed a couple of months further. Beta 1 is out now.
> That will be 5 years after the release of Windows XP in 2001. Normally a new
> Microsoft
> OS comes out every 2 to 3 years. WinFS (next generation Windows file system),
> MSH (Microsoft
> Command Shell), along with any major fixes and improvements will all be
> available in
> a future service pack for Windows Vista.
Maybe, the other just as likely possibility is that WinFS will be in the next
version of Windows. The new shell will be in Vista eventually but MS initially
said WinFS would be in the next Windows.
> > - it will prove to be more "hype" than substance
> >
> > - it will be a smaller improvement than people were led
> > to believe
> >
>
> Windows Vista is promised to be a change as big as Windows 95 was to 3.1,
> perhaps even
> bigger. Beta 1 already proves that for the most part, even though many key
> features
> are missing, and is full of bugs. Microsoft wants a OS that is comparable but
> different
> than Apple's MacOS X Tiger, which I believe is currently the ultimate
> operating system.
Again we're going on what Microsoft is saying. There's a pretty good chance that
it might just be a GUI update with some new apps.
> > - there will be fear that existing code won't work,
> > but those fears will prove to be unfounded. After
> > a quarter century, most DOS programs run fine on XP.
> > I think the WIN32 API will be safe for at least that long.
> >
>
> I think Microsoft assumes that by 2008, virtually all new development on
> Windows Vista will be with WinFX. Plus much more development with the
> .NET framework on Windows 2000 and XP. WinFX will be the new native platform
> for developing rich client + server side applications and web services,
> and the only way to go if you wish to take advantage of Vista and beyond.
> People will have a choice of many languages to choose from, just look
> at these .NET enabled languages: <a
> href="http://www.dotnetpowered.com/languages.aspx,">http://www.dotnetpowered.com/languages.aspx,</a>
> and many
> more are to come; Euphoria can be one of them! WinFX will also be available
> for download to Windows 2000, Windows Server 2003, and Windows XP
> users to widen the availability to a much larger user base.
What MS assumes and what's the truth are not always the same. For all we know
they might cancel .NET by the time 2008 rolls around. Also, if my old apps didn't
work in XP I would have stayed with 98 plus almost all new programs still support
98/ME.
> > Also, you shouldn't assume that Microsoft is going to
> > have a stranglehold on the industry forever. Look what happened
> > when IBM, which dominated the PC world in the mid-80's, tried to
> > get everyone to upgrade to PS/2 and OS/2. The industry and the public
> > decided to keep the existing standards, and IBM was left out in the cold.
> >
>
> Computers as you know them today wont last forever, probably not even 4
> decades into
> this century.
What makes you say this? We've had UNIX for 30+ years and IBM still sells
mainframes that are compatible with stuff from the '60s.
> Microsoft will continue to have hold on the desktop market, while Linux has
> hold on
> the server side. However with the introduction of Windows Longhorn Server, it
> is likely
> to see more businesses returning back to Windows. Several are already doing
> this, such
> as Regal Entertainment Group in Los Vegas. Using a 10-year Net Present Model,
> they
> relized that Windows Server System would significantly lower thier Total Cost
> of Ownership
> (TCO) than using Red Hat Linux.
Where'd you hear this? Also, the most secure server's are believed to be Mac OS
X and FreeBSD with Red Hat Enterprise topping the Linux distros according to a
security audit by the British government. If you look at the list of servers with
the highest uptime (http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html) there are
only 4 Windows 2000 servers in the top 50 the rest are all BSD/OS or FreeBSD
(except one IRIX and one Linux).
> Realize that .NET will eventually find a place in the UNIX world too: Linux,
> BSD, MacOS
> X. Mono is an open-source, cross-plaform implementation of the CLR that is not
> affiliated
> with Microsoft. Currently only C# is supported, but an Visual Basic.NET
> compiler is
> being developed and in alpha stage at the moment. Microsoft is working on the
> v2.0
> specification of their shared-source ECMA Common Language Infrastructure (CLI)
> and
> the ECMA C# language specification code named: Rotor, that is the core of the
> .NET
> framework, which is to build on Windows XP, FreeBSD, and MacOS X. I believe
> Mono and
> dotGNU was made possible in part by Rotor.
No, if you read the license you can't use Rotor code anywhere and for anything
to the extent that writing bug fixes is disallowed.
The Euphoria Standard Library project :
http://esl.sourceforge.net/
The Euphoria Standard Library mailing list :
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/esl-discussion
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