RE: Chatting vs mailing
<SNIP>
> > I don't see the relevance of that. We manage fine with the
> > mailing list,
> > and it's influenced by the same factor.
>
> Yes, but not nearly as much. The other time factor to consider with IRC
> (etc) is that both (all) parties must be online simultaneously. This
> isn't
> a factor with the mailing list.
I understand now. That's true, but that doesn't negate the fact that a
chatroom would be a good idea.
Generally, people aren't going to be coordinating through the chatline.
Most likely it would be used for quick answers to simple questions.
The chatroom would target new and prospective users.
Most people don't want to subscribe to a mailing list to get support for
a software product. I know that the EU docs are very sufficient, but
it's inevitable that people will have residual questions. It's much more
convenient to log on to a chat room, and ask your question there.
How many people are going to browse to RapidEuphoria.com, see that they
may be interested in EU, but have a couple of quick questions? I'd say
pretty much all of them.
Are these people going to subscribe to the mailing list in hopes of
finding out more information about EU? Less than likely.
Would these same people click on a link to a java chat page, and ask a
question in the chat room? I'd say possibly to probably.
That brings up something else. RDS should have an FAQ page. The mail
archive is great, but difficult to browse and search, especially if you
have a general question. An FAQ takes some effort though.
> <SNIP>
>
> > We have tried setting up a chat channel for EU, on a number of
> > occasions.
> >
> > It was never supported by RDS though, so the only people who
> > knew of the
> > chat channel were those who were already a part of the
> > mailing list. Of
> > those people, only some knew how to connect to a chat
> > channel. That made
> > for a pretty small attendance in the chatroom.
>
> Personally, I don't see ever using the chatroom, at least not regularly.
> Probably the biggest reason is time. I just don't have enough to spend
> it
> like that.
>
The intention of the chatroom wouldn't really be for mailing list
members. If you are subscribed to the list, you are more than likely
already a devoted EU user, and have no problems communicating through
it.
I would still use the list myself, but I would also have the option of
using the chatroom for quick and rough questions where I'm not even sure
what I should be asking.
> > > > Also, I for one, often have a
> > > > hard time explaining what I mean through a single email
> > >
> > > Emails are so fast these days that alot of mail list emails are
> > > answered within 10-20 minutes anyway. This is better service than
> > > almost all commercial suppliers of software!
> >
> > Can you guarantee that I will get an answer for my question
> > that I post
> > on the list? How long should I wait for a response to my
> > question before
> > I give up and dig for the answer on my own? I may wait weeks before
> > someone responds, or maybe noone ever will.
> > On a chat channel, I can ask my question, and within a few
> > minutes, I'll
> > know if anyone can help me. If I don't get an answer, THEN I could go
> > and post to the mailing list, and persue the answer on my own in the
> > meantime.
>
> You should try to dig up the answer on your own before you post. It may
> take hours or even days before your question is or can be answered.
> Consider that in the Eu community, there are people who are experts on
> different areas. Through the mailing list, you reach them all. On the
> chat
> side, you have to hope that someone is there who knows the answer, and
> can
> give it to you. Not to mention the time it sometimes takes to come up
> with
> a response. A lot of answers (especially the non-trivial ones) take
> minutes
> to hours to weeks to figure out.
I KNOW that I should find answers on my own before posting. That pretty
much defeats the purpose of the mailing list though. It's supposed to be
a resource for finding answers, not a last resort.
Quite often, I find that I waste my time researching, when I can post to
the list, and get an answer to my question. At the least, I can usually
get some better insight as to what I am looking for.
In the meantime, I can work on something else.
Take Sam's first question for example. I'm sure ALOT of new users are
confused about how to use sequences. To any experienced user, it's
fairly trivial. All it takes is for one experienced user to be in the
chatroom, to answers questions like that for new users. If more
difficult questions are asked, and can't be readily answered, people
could be redirected to the mailing list, and the mail archives.
>
> > A chatline would also allow for easier conferencing and collaboration
> > for larger projects. People could discuss and share source code in
> > realtime.
>
> Maybe you can type and code a lot faster than I can, but I'm not seeing
> the
> benefit of 'realtime' source code sharing vs email/web posting for
> others to
> look at. Not to mention disparate schedules.
The benefit is mostly for new users, with simple questions and problems.
These can generally be answered almost instantaneously.
More generally, I can paste a code snippet in 5 seconds, someone else
can inspect it in 1 minute, and tell me what's wrong with it.
Instead of spending 5 to 10 minutes writing a post, send it to the list,
and wait for a response. Spending additional time to periodically check
the list to see if there are any responses.
Usually taking a day or two.
Also, I think almost everyone would prefer to get answers to their
pressing problems, here and now, rather than sometime soon, hopefully.
Whether or not they want to use a chat line to get their answer is a
different story. Some people just don't like it, but to each their own.
Those people can join the list if they want to.
>
> > It may take a week or longer to exchange 3 emails with somone
> > using the
> > mailing list, or email in general. Depending on how often the parties
> > check their mail.
> >
> > The same exchange would take a matter of an hour in a chat room. Code
> > can be shared, modified and sent back, pretty much instantaneously.
>
> If someone is spending hours at a time in a chat room, they probably
> check
> their email pretty often. And if they don't check their email more than
> a
> few times a week, they probably won't be spending any time in a chat
> room.
Who says anyone will be spending hours at a time in the chatroom?
Assuming it takes an average of 5 to 30 minutes to check email an
respond:
If I check my email once a day, and the other person checks their email
once a day, that's a possibility of taking up to 5 days
exchange 3 emails, at about 1 hour of time spent by each person.
I could make the same exchange on a chat line, in about 15 minutes to an
hour.
I can almost guarantee that the chatline conversion will be more
beneficial than an email exchange.
It's much easier to fucus attention on a specific concept or question,
when you are discussing the topic in realtime. Misinterpretations are
easily corrected, where with email, it complicates and discourages the
exchange.
>
> I'm not trying to say that a chat room won't be a good thing for some
> people, but I think that the list serves the purpose far better.
I never said we should replace the mailing list with a chatroom. It
should be provided as an introductory, and convenient facility for
merging new users into the EU community.
Chris
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