Re: Money

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On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Cuny, David wrote:
> When the nesting gets three ">" characters deep, things are getting out of
> hand...

I agree there!  Of course, it didn't stop me from continuing this thread.

> I tried to be very specific in my example about your book. The first, and
> only option to the person inquiring (about virtual screens, I think) was to
> buy your resource. Not even a /hint/ on how to go about coding it.

Rather than going into a dissertation without knowing what they want to do
it seemed right at the time to tell them to look at OZ, and if that was
what they wanted to do, then I could help them.  I don't see a problem
there.  If they want to do something I don't know about, I can't help
them very much.

> At a minimum, a first attempt should be made, like your excellent discussion
> about virtual screens today. If nothing else, it proves to the person how
> MUCH they need the resource after they've tried coding it themselves.

If you've been reading this listserver for any length of time, you'd have
seen that that was at least the 10th time I've replied with something
similar.  When you get the SAME question every week, it is easier to refer
those things.  After your last message, I noted that I hadn't done it in
awhile, so I did it then, for whatever good it was to the person who
asked.  I hope it was useful. (did you notice I DIDN'T mention the
book in that post?) =)  I'll probably put up a more complete answer on my
web page soon.

> But even then, there is a lot of good, free code (and tutorials) for C and
> BASIC that's not too hard to translate to Euphoria.

If you have the development hours to devote to it for no compensation.

> I not trying to "going off" at you, and I'm not trying to be unfair. I
> certainly admire and appreciate the work that you've done, and know that
> you've put quite a lot of hard work into your games and tutoring. You are
> quite entitiled to whatever compensation you want from it. I've tried to
> stress this point several times, and I'm saying it again.

That's not what you've said.  You called my contributions to this group a
marketing ploy, a shameless plug, and a commercial venture.

> Video games, on the other hand, deal with a lot more obscure hardware calls:
> DMA moves to the sound card, setting the registers of the video card and so
> on. It's a whole other ballgame, and I can see that your experience is
> different from mine.

Most of what I know has nothing to do with hardware calls, it's about
indexing sequences and moving data around, pure euphoria.  90% of the
questions I receive are Game Design issues or Euphoria issues.  Hardware
issues I refer to Jacques. =)

> > I've read your code snippets, but I am no closer to doing it myself.
> > What you've done is make a VERY cool toy for us to play with, which is
> > an achievement, but it doesn't help anyone LEARN how to do it.  They
> > just look at what you've accomplished and go "oooo!"
> Was this backhanded compliment really called for?

Probably not, and I apologize for the way it came across.  The point I was
grasping for was that code sharing isn't enough.  I can use your tools
because they are available, but I don't know how you created them, what
your paradigm is, or really how they work.  They aren't a teaching tool,
for me at least. They are a programming tool, and a darn good one, from
what I've seen. I would love to see a euphoria book on how to create a
text editor.  "Here's HOW you do it" is fundimentally cooler than "Here do
it" and that's where I think we should go.  We create cool software in
euphoria, then create "Programmer's Reference" materials to walk people
through the whole process we went through.  Tutorials and example code is
fine, but it is NOT the same as going through the process of creating a
REAL application with someone.

Michael Packard
Lord Generic Productions
lgp at
A Crash Course in Game Design and Production

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