Re: Eu Rebellion (was: New Euphoria Users Website)
On 15 Nov 2002, at 8:02, Matthew Lewis wrote:
>
>
> > From: jbrown105 at speedymail.org [mailto:jbrown105 at speedymail.org]
> > On 0, Chris Bensler <bensler at mail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > I personally, would rather not see any ranting, but instead
> > see people
> > > committing to acheive the goals themselves. Obviously this
> > is up to the
> > > indiviudal to decide.
>
> <snip>
>
> > Other than Bach and assorted modified interpreters, I don't really see
> > the
> > elements of your "rebellion" of Eu either.
> >
> > Then again, I'd doubt such rebellion would do much to Rob.
>
> As an author of an assorted modified interpreter, I'll say that there
hasn't
> exactly been a lot of excitement over the new features that have been
made in
> the new interpreters. Karl's has certainly gotten the most press and
10.50 in
> micro-bucks (IIRC, Igor is the only other person to release a modified
> interpreter). Of course, he's also put out the most features, and
included
> probably the number one request: structures.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I didn't think that I'd created a better mouse trap,
and
> that everyone would instantly beat a path to my door. However, there
were at
> least two people (Kat, and someone else whom I can't recall, but who
said he
> would donate 6 months worth of mico-economy money to anyone who could
solve it)
> who had asked for one feature--flexible variable
referencing/creation--and a
> whole host of others who have asked for the second--specifying a crash
routine.
> To date, not only haven't I received any micro-bucks (didn't really
expect any),
> but I haven't gotten any user feedback, either.
I don't think i asked for pass-by-reference, i had asked for variable
creation
and knowing what vars there are, which is more of an associated-list sorta
animal. I didn't know you had a crash routine, i didn't know you had a new
interpreter out until i searched the archives by "Lewis"!
Re the DDE package, i did ask for it, but i can't use it, i get this:
D:\Euphoria\dde\dde.ew:10
registerw32Function has not been declared
DdeInitialize = registerw32Function( user32, "DdeInitializeA",
Programs in the archives that fail to run are common.
> <shameless plug> One nice thing about the variable stuff is that you can
use it
> just for debugging--get a dump of all variables to an eds database upon
a crash
> basically by including one file and using my interpreter--easy to take
out and
> use the real deal for distribution. So you can get some real benefit,
but not
> be locked into a non-standard interpreter. </shameless plug>
Er,, if you use EDS, which i don't, because i didn't know i could get a
list of
the vars in it *while running*. Your's lists when it crashes. Which is
nice, but
on a database that fills the harddrive, getting a var dump after a crash
is a
bad thing.
> I don't really feel shorted by this, since I had a lot of fun doing it,
and
> learned a lot as well. However, it sends a message that perhaps these
things
> aren't that important. And guess what, that message is heard by not
only
> myself, but by Rob, too. I sometimes forget to vote my money, but
usually get
> all 3.00 up there, often for somewhat obscure things that aren't the
most useful
> pieces of code, but at least hit my areas of interest, or that I think
are
> useful things to be doing (I think I've voted for most of the
reformatted help
> files).
>
> Someone recently postulated that the structure of the interpreter [being
> optimized for speed rather than maintainability] was a reason for lack
of
> speedy changes. I disagree. I've had difficulty in modifying the
source,
> but I attribute that to my lack of C skills and the simple fact that I'm
> wading into someone else's code (which gets multiplied by my C
ineptitude).
>
> Karl would like to sell Bach, so I wouldn't really expect him to share
> source code with Rob, so it may not be so realistic to see structures,
etc
> put into Eu2.4--not that Rob couldn't implement them himself. I have no
> such illusions about my output, however, I'd be happy to hand the code
over to
> Rob (or anyone else who's interested and owns the source). The only
reason I
> didn't release it was the license. I know I've offered it to anyone
willing to
> compile it on linux.
I'd have liked to look into Karl's source just to see the examples on how
he
did things, but then too, i'd like to eliminate the restriction on the
number (not
the scope) of "goto". Problem is, he wants money for it. Like you, i
haven't
done anything productive in C. I still have the words ringing in my ears,
from
someone who got me to start use the wintel platform 10 years ago: "C won't
last as a language, it's too difficult.".
> Perhaps a separate message board/mailing list for the source code. I
> suppose Rob would have to maintain it in order to keep it secure and not
> violate the license, but that might really spur development. Maybe just
a
> message board on the RDS web site with password access, where we could
> exchange messages and post code? IMO, this is a very valid reason for
> splitting from the main list, and might be very useful--to us and to
Rob.
Not to Rob, that's the reason people are leaving.
(
Kat
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