RE: New Euphoria Users Website
Juergen Luethje wrote:
> Chris wrote:
>
> > You have obviously not been in the chat room..
> > It is extremely beneficial.
>
> [...]
>
> > We are also in the initial phase of establishing a coders organization,
> > to help with standardizations, and upping the quality and of the
> > contributions, and hopefully the language in general.
>
> That sounds important, so why not doing it here, in the "main"
> community?
>
Eventually, it will be, but like I said earlier, not much actually gets
done through here. At least not in terms of collaborative efforts. Once
it's established, and well organized, and we've worked out the kinks.
Everyone will be invited to participate.
Also, because collaboration within the mailing community is minimal, and
the whole reason people are in the mailing list and not in the chatroom,
is because they don't have time, which also means they don't have time
to devote to a cooperative project.
Besides, it's been tried, and failed.
> > Things are actually _happening_ in there, instead of just thinking up
> > ways for other people to make euphoria the invincible wonder language,
> > and then passing the buck.
> >
> > No attack on anyone intended, but that's the way it is. I've been a part
> > of this mailing list for over 3 years, and I see the same thing happen
> > all the time. We bitch, we come up with a plan, and that's the end of
> > it. And I'm no different. We all wanna have our say, but we're all to
> > busy to do anything about it, or else "it's Robert Craig's problem".
>
> I don't understand what this has got to do with the medium chatting vs.
> mailing.
There was no versus.
Chatting and mailing are two completely different, independent mediums.
I was not inferring that the mailing is not as useful as the
chatroom, but that the chatroom _does_ have relevance.
Mostly, I'm just sick of seeing the same bickering, and nothing come of
it. This current EuForum fiasco "What we need" has been going on for
years, and has not changed one bit. I'm just as guilty as everyone else,
but I sought out the chatroom, so that I might actually be able to DO
something about it, instead of just talking about it.
Took the EuForum at least 3 years to bicker about not having a chatroom,
before someone finally got fed up.
Both are useful, and is why I'm am a part of both. The mailing list is
good for getting mass opinions, and for a knowledge database.
The chatroom is good for realtime help, and for peer interaction.
The fact that the mailing list is docile, is nothing unusual, it's a
characteristic of the community style.
The mailing list is abstracted interaction, not to mention an extremely
drawn out, tedious process of communication, _especially_ when
considering trying to coordinate a group project.
The chatroom is immersed interaction, meaning, I can tell you, "it
doesn't work", then you can say "well, why not, what error did it give
you!? what line number? how am I supposed to know what the problem is,
if you don't give me any specifics?", I say "oh duh! :P XXX error, on
line blah".
3 lines of communication...
a potential week of emailing.
a few minutes in the chatroom.
(ya, you laff at my example :). but it happens all the time!)
There is also the benefit of realtime previewing of code in progress.
I can be working on a project, and show off a chunk to someone, and
often, others will spout out a better way.
Not only do I get the better method, but I also get a detailed
explanation of why it's better, and if I still don't understand, the
person is right there, and can fully explain it to me. In the duration
of this process, I'm not wasting days, figuring out why I should change
my code, or how to adapt to the new code.
Information exchange is tenfold, if not more.
Again, I never said EuForum is not good. It's just not suitable for much
more than a general msg board, with the added benefit that you can have
the msg's delivered, instead of having to view them online.
EuForum is a resource, the chatroom is a tool.
Anyways, excuse my ranting... :/
Everyone also needs to understand that the difference is also
preference. Most people can't participate in a chatroom on a regular
basis, others can't communicate well through turn based msg'ing.
For myself, I am lucky enough to have the freedom to be in the chatroom
during work, so I am generally there most of the day. I've learned more
about EU, and coding in general, not to mention all kinds of other
aspects of computer tech, since March, than I have in the entire 3 years
I've been using EU and participating in the mailing list.
Chris
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