Re: What we really need...
On 12 Nov 2002, at 14:15, Igor Kachan wrote:
>
> Hello Irv,
>
> To see some iteration to the real situation we can visit :
>
> http://download.com.com/3150-2069-0-1-4.html
>
> and check the Total number of downloads for the different languages
> from this site.
>
> Euphoria is *popular* language, and only it is marked as *simple*
> and *powerful*.
>
> Rob doesn't care about such the counts, so we do not know
> how many downloads was from the own RDS sites for
> the Windows/Dos/Linux/FreeBSD versions.
> There are about 350 known authors in RDS archive and about 350
> subscribers on this list, but from March about 23000 programmers
> got the Win/Dos *EU version 2.3* just from download.com.
Problem is, i think most of those downloads are curiosity, and they don't
use
it. Most people who get to the irc channel can't get Eu to install, cannot
connect it to anything existing, or don't know they need libs from the
archives to do the bulk of anything useful.
Small, i suppose, but then add in win32lib, misc.e, strtok, everything for
tcp4u, 1000 lines of a gui lib when one window() should be fine, etc etc,,
and
it's not small anymore. These days of CDs, 40gig harddrives, 32bit OSs
(soon to be 64bit, sheesh), i don't think fitting on a floppy is relavant
(or that
many people know what a floppy is anymore), but functionality is.
On 12 Nov 2002, at 12:38, Ray Smith wrote:
<snip>
> The current Euphoria business model will never compete with these
> languages. Anyone who wants Euphoria to be anything that it currently
> isn't will be very disappointed.
>
> Saying all that I still like Euphoria,
> if Euphoria can do the job you want that's great,
> if it can't do what you want and "you personally" can't make it do what
> you want, then it most likely won't do what you want in the near future.
> Everyone makes their own choice.
>
> My comments might sound negative (and they are) ...
> nothing I have seen in the last 3 or 4 years makes me believe Euphoria
> in the future will be anything different to what it is now.
> (Yes the number and quality of Euphoria libraries are improving but
> at a slower rate than the competition ... it will never catch up)
I haveto agree, after the fiasco with using it on nix recently.
On 12 Nov 2002, at 10:00, euman at bellsouth.net wrote:
<snip>
> 5) Tools for TCPIP
On any platform.
> 8) Math (Kats Big Num (when released))
Check out Matts.
> Perhaps stop touting Euphoria as the easiest language to learn by saying
> "JUST SAY NO TO COMPLICATED PROGRAMMING LANGAUGES"
> this makes Euphoria appear to not have enough functionalilty.
Problem is, it doesn't have a logical reason for that. Marketting a non-
reasonable line to logical programmers won't go far. Rob doesn't want to
add
the innovative (altho now more common) features, or functionality that
makes
programming easier, instead it's striving to keep it *small*. And run fast
on a
386 with dos4.
On 12 Nov 2002, at 15:11, Chris Bensler wrote:
> The site does look a bit old fashioned.
>
> And considering that the majority of Eu's new users, are novice
> programmers, there is no learning materials available. Eu will be
> quickly sluffed off, for even the crappiest language, as long as it has
> something that can help them learn the language.
> And no, ABGTE is not good enough. Personally, I thought is was a huge
> help, but I seem to be of the minority.
Well, you saw my comments on lack of docs for using Eu on a nix shell. I
find docs so important, i am writting them for the irc net, and for two of
the
bigger Eu includes.
On 12 Nov 2002, at 11:50, irv at take.maxleft.com wrote:
> On Tuesday 12 November 2002 10:05 am, Chris B. wrote:
> >
> > Frankly, I would be surprised if Robert Craig manages to make a
profit,
> > considering all the time he invests.
> >
>
> So would I. On the other hand, I doubt Larry Wall or Guido van Rossum
are
> starving, and they make nothing from the sale of their languages.
>
> Obviously, they both make money from the sale of their books, and they
stay
> employed as a result of their ability to put the language they invented
to
good
> use. And they are in demand as speakers for geek-oriented gatherings.
>
> They (and O'Reilly) can sell books and conduct seminars because other
people
> want to learn how to use the languages.
>
> The questions are: how to get other people to want to use Euphoria?
Well, when Khaled was donating money from mirc registrations to some 9-11
fund, i think i figured he is pulling in $28,000 a month, just from those
who
registered. Not bad for a hobby.
I still hold to what i said years ago, merge Eu with mirc, and you'll
*really*
have something. Or with Lua,, TCL, etc....
Kat
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