Re: ed.ex / non-gui editors - survey
Oh, yeah, now I remember, THAT'S approximately why I also don't use ed.ex!
And it was (unintentionally?) almost as funny as "How to Shoot Yourself in
the Foot Using Programming Languages"! :)
Dan Moyer
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cuny" <dcuny at LANSET.COM>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Subject: Re: ed.ex / non-gui editors - survey
>
> Ken Rhodes wrote:
>
> > I am interested in knowing how many of you (us) use
> > ed.ex, or any modified version.
>
> Oddly enough, I use EE.EX.
>
> > Does anyone feel it is worth Robert's time and effort
> > to update ed.ex with features that make it more
> > powerful and easy to use; if so - what features would
> > you like to see implemented?
>
> Keep in mind that it's been a long time since I've used ED, but from my
> brief revisiting, I'm not encouraged to start using it again.
>
> The editor makes a *lot* of difference for the language. When I first
> learned Euphoria, I tried to use ED, but it lacked many features I felt
were
> essential:
>
> - Shift+Navigation keys for text selection
> - Dropdown menus
> - Mouse support
>
> For me, using ED was an experience in frustration. It didn't support the
key
> sequences I normally used, so using the editor required a lot of extra
> thinking on my part. Since my frustration was already high (being a
complete
> newbie), having to fight with the editor made using Euphoria even more
> unpleasant. It didn't help that some key combinations (Ctrl+C, for "cut
> text") that I was used to would cause the editor to bomb and lose code.
And
> when I'd bounce between the DOS editor and ED, ED would mangle the
> formatting of my code.
>
> I actually stopped using Euphoria because of ED.
>
> > Do you think it would be worth Rob's effort to enhance
> > ed.ex just to make it a better more elaborate example
> > of Euphoria's power?
>
> No, I think there are already plenty of nice demos. But since ED is the
> default editor supplied with Euphoria, I think that it would be in his
best
> interest to make it as comfortable for as many users as possible.
>
> ED is probably the first Euphoria program that they are likely to use, and
> I'm going to bet that it won't be a pleasant visit. Since I haven't used
ED
> in years, I'm pretty much a complete newbie. Let me walk you through my
> entirely unscientific usability test. I typed:
>
> > ed
>
> And was confronted with:
>
> file name:
>
> Huh? All the other DOS editors create an unnamed file for me. Not ED; it
> immediately tells me that it's different.
>
> Now, I just wanted an empty file, so I leave the line blank and press
Enter.
> Instead of opening an unnamed file, it returned me to the command prompt.
> Argh. I'm frustrated already.
>
> So I try again, this time entering a filename. I start typing, and want to
> get to the menu. Without thinking, I type Ctrl+F - the reflex is virtually
> hard-wired. ED responds by placing me at the top line:
>
> That key does nothing. Do you want to view the help file?
>
> This isn't true. If the key did nothing, it would simply be ignored.
> Instead, it pops up this message which interrupts my work flow, and I have
> to read it, and figure out how to get rid of it. Does this mean every time
I
> press an 'invalid' key combination, ED will do this? I hope not... I press
> 'ESC' to get out of the message.
>
> Oh, bother... That does nothing. I'm stuck at a modal dialog, and I have
to
> *guess* the magic key that ED wants. The message really should have a
hint,
> like:
>
> That key does nothing. Do you want to view the help file? [y/n]
>
> And optimally, assume that anything that's not a 'Y' or 'y' is a no. But
it
> doesn't, and I'm irritated because it's interrupted my flow. I press 'n',
> and I'm placed back in the text. The error message is still displayed on
the
> top line.
>
> I still haven't figured out how to get to the menu. The top line used to
> read:
>
> junk.ex Esc for commands
>
> but now it just displays the last error message. I take a guess and punch
> the ESC key. Ah! The menu comes up. My frustration goes down a bit, and I
> punch ESC to leave the menu and return to the code.
>
> No, bless that well-designed editor, ESC *doesn't* let me out of the menu.
I
> have to stop and read the options:
>
> help clone quit save write new ex dos find replace lines mods ddd CR:
>
> Now I'm puzzled. I don't see any obvious means of escape, and the 'ddd'
> option is especially unhelpful. I take a wild guess that CR might get me
> back to the command line, and (happily enough), it does.
>
> So far, this hasn't been a pleasant experience for me. I'm convinced that
> I'll *never* be using ED, but I play with it a bit more. I start to type
the
> expression:
>
> for
>
> and ED helpfully auto-completes it:
>
> for = to by do
> end for
>
> and it *beeps*. I don't like it when my machine beeps at me, and I don't
> recall anything in the menu that allowed me to turn it off. If it's going
to
> *beep* every time it auto-completes, it's going to be very irritating. I
> want to keep typing, but I'm not sure what to do. Do I press 'tab' to skip
> past the keywords, or use the arrow keys? I type:
>
> for i =
>
> and press the tab key, hoping ED will skip past the '=' sign. It doesn't,
> and the text now looks like this:
>
> for i
> = to by do
> end for
>
> OK, no problem. I press the BACKSPACE key to unsplit the line. No, that's
> not working... it's acting like the DELETE key and deleting my text! This
is
> certainly a weird behavior:
>
> for i
> to by do
> end for
>
> So I figure I'll just delete the code and start over. I use the arrow keys
> to move to the top line, and press Shift+DownArrow. No, that doesn't work.
I
> guess that maybe it uses something old, like Wordstar, so I press Ctrl+Y,
> and end up at the menu:
>
> That key does nothing. Do you want to view the help file?
>
> Did I mention that I *seriously* hate this message? I don't want help, so
I
> press Enter to get out of the menu. But instead of putting me back in my
> code, it splits the screen and opens the help document:
>
> F2: c:\euphoria\doc\ed.doc Esc for commands
>
> This behavior has me baffled - I *know* I didn't press the 'Y' key. I
press
> Esc to get to the menu, and 'c' to close...
>
> F3: c:\euphoria\doc\ed.doc
>
> Oh, wonderful. That was 'clone', not 'close'. I try 'q' this time, and
> magically, the screen is only divided into two parts. F2, ESC, Q and I'm
> back to this mess:
>
> for i
> to by do
> end for
>
> I move the cursor to the end of the first line, press DELETE, and:
>
> for i to by do
> end for
>
> Excellent. I eventually type:
>
> for i = 1 to 10 do
> end for
>
> and I go to run it. I press ESC and look for 'run' in the menu. Not
there...
> oh, yeah: 'ex'. Good thing I'm not a complete newbie. I press the 'e', and
> it *beeps* at me:
>
> junk.ex 2
> syntax error - expected to see possibly '(', not a variable
> print i
> ^
>
> OK, this is clearly an error on my part - I've been coding in Basic
> recently. I return to the code, and wonder what exactly the syntax for
> 'print' is. Since 'print' is syntax colored, I wonder if ED has any
> context-sensitive help. I position the cursor at 'print', and press F1.
No,
> nothing. Not even a 'this key does nothing' message. So I try ESC and 'h'.
I
> get the prompt:
>
> ed.doc, refman.doc or library.doc (e, r or l):
>
> OK, no context sensitive help. I hold my breath and press ENTER. Hurrah!
It
> returns me to the code.
>
> I figure it's time to exit, so I press ESC, Q. It prompts me:
>
> quit without saving changes?
>
> Now, all the other editors I use ask the question the other way around:
>
> Save changes to untitled?
>
> So I automatically press 'Y', and am suprised to end up still in the
editor.
> ESC, Q, and this time, I pay attention to the message, exit. But unlike
any
> other DOS editor, ED doesn't restore the screen to where it was when it
was
> called; it leaves a mess on the screen.
>
> Of course, if ED behaved exactly like DOS EDIT, you'd get nothing but
> complaints from the folk who love vi.
>
> -- David Cuny
>
>
>
>
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