1. Yet another IDE
Well....
I've been looking at every available IDE for Eu. Especially
Judith's IDE looks really nice.... but...
The Eu-specific IDE programs all mimic the VB/Delphi/whatever
paradigm. This is great for building small applications with
a few windows (let's say 10 or so), but for large (very large)
projects this is not working for me (probably because I'm used
to working with a high-end CASE/IDE tool).
What I want is an IDE that is more project-centric, capable of
handing a hundred windows or more, loads of include files, auto-
matic detection and loading of include files, cross-references
for functions across a complete project, detection for collisions
between global and local defined vars, etc.
I also want it to be more of a production environment with options
to run complex build-scripts that can completely build a
distribution, including an installer if needed. Because of this,
and to make this IDE as flexible as possible, almost everything
needs to be scriptable.
To make a long story short: I'm going to build it myself.
As this is a pet project AND my introduction to programming in
Euphoria, it might take some time before there is anything usable.
I will probably grab all kinds of stuff from the Eu archive too.
If anyone is interested in this, let me know. If people would like
to collaborate on this project then I can set up a wiki for it.
Looking forward to your replies 
Hans Peter Willems
2. Re: Yet another IDE
- Posted by jxliv7 at hotmail.com
Jul 24, 2003
> Hans Peter Willaims said:
> I've been looking at every available IDE for Eu. Especially
> Judith's IDE looks really nice.... but...
> <snip>
i've been looking as well, trying various ones here and there. my problem is
that i get so carried away trying to make one work the way i want it to that
i get off the coding road and into the little daisy fields.
there's been a few notpad, word processor, and IDE style apps mentioned
before. beside those in the archives, there's been www.NEdit.org,
www.ultraedit.com, www.crimsoneditor.com, www.editpad.com,
www.editpadpro.com, www.code-genie.com, http://fixedsys.com/context,
www.testpad.com, the turbo pascal IDE, www.notepad.org, notepad++ from
fnet.dynu.net/npp/, and probably more. a lot have Euphoria color syntax
coding.
until i read your wish list, i was saying why invent another mousetrap? but
i liked the width and depth of your project.
> <snip>
> To make a long story short: I'm going to build it myself.
> As this is a pet project AND my introduction to programming in
> Euphoria, it might take some time before there is anything usable.
> I will probably grab all kinds of stuff from the Eu archive too.
> If anyone is interested in this, let me know. If people would like
> to collaborate on this project then I can set up a wiki for it.
i'll do what i can to help...
regards,
--
jon
jxliv7 at hotmail.com
3. Re: Yet another IDE
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:58:47 +0000, Peter Willems
<peter at integratedmoves.com> wrote:
> I've been looking at every available IDE for Eu.
<snip>
> cross-references
Yeah, I'm forever doing global searches, which is OK, but it wipes out
the last one, I'd like to "stack"/"save" them
> If anyone is interested in this, let me know. If people would like
> to collaborate on this project then I can set up a wiki for it.
Some random thoughts:
Since releasing MEditor and starting a second project, I've realised
just how non-multi-project it is. There is a fairly nice feature in
there to load up project globals, but it currently has to be re-loaded
(wiping out any other project) as I switch between the two.
(The only current sop to project filesets is that the open file
dialogue opens in the right directory, and when you are editing lots
of files, you can actually use that to switch between files.)
If I started over, I'd store the project details in a database -
automatically built from the sources (and/or on demand).
I really don't like the idea of an IDE that cannot import an existing
project (or files from the Eu archive, for example), or one that you
can't edit elsewhere and easily/automatically resume.
I can easily automate processing of include statements via EUBNF,
which should help considerably in that regard.
I'd like a very simple "drag controls" aid: it wouldn't necessarily
have to let you create the controls, but position them a whole lot
easier than changing the numbers passed to create() by hand.
I think I could craft a list of windows out of a source, offer a list
(defaulting to the one nearest the cursor), and blat back the
changes... <sound of rusty cogs turning> Maybe.....
I love Wolf's and Dan's demos, but they are a bit hard to search
through for the right example sometimes.
I still struggle to locate the window styles (ES_READONLY etc) and
extended styles, and their exact meanings (never was a C programmer).
Just so you know, I am much more interested in components/concepts I
can incorporate into MEditor than a brand new project.
I think I could manage a rewrite of MEditor's GUI now, if needed.
It would be real nice of someone to act as international consultant
and make sure the project is multi-lingual-friendly.
Pete
4. Re: Yet another IDE
"Pete Lomax" wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 07:58:47 +0000, Peter Willems
> <peter at integratedmoves.com> wrote:
>
> > I've been looking at every available IDE for Eu.
> <snip>
<snip>>
> I really don't like the idea of an IDE that cannot import an existing
> project (or files from the Eu archive, for example), or one that you
> can't edit elsewhere and easily/automatically resume.
I think someone wrote a utility that will take an existing windows program &
create the project files necessary to use Judith's IDE on it? It's a
two-step operation, but maybe it could be incorperated into the IDE (with
attribution to its author, of course) ?
>
<snip>
>
> I'd like a very simple "drag controls" aid: it wouldn't necessarily
> have to let you create the controls, but position them a whole lot
> easier than changing the numbers passed to create() by hand.
Judith's IDE does, of course, allow that.
>
<snip>
>
> I love Wolf's and Dan's demos, but they are a bit hard to search
> through for the right example sometimes.
I agree. Haven't been able to think of a good way to improve it in that
regard, though.
>
> I still struggle to locate the window styles (ES_READONLY etc) and
> extended styles, and their exact meanings (never was a C programmer).
>
It's a little hard to find, but in Judith's IDE, if you create a window & go
down to one of the "style" fields & right click on it, an option called
"Explorer" or something like that comes up, click on it and you get a window
which has a whole lot of style options listed, select various ones and a
demo of what you would get with them shows, and you can then click on a
"copy style to project" (or something like that), and your choice is now
auto-made for you in code. VERY handy!
<snip>
> Pete
>
Dan Moyer
5. Re: Yet another IDE
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:14:22 +0000, Peter Willems
<peter at integratedmoves.com> wrote:
>> I can easily automate processing of include statements via EUBNF,
>> which should help considerably in that regard.
>
> I'm not sure where you are going here, probably misunderstand it.
> I want my IDE to parse a main-project file (or "top level" file)
> for include statements and add the called include files to the
> project tree automatically. I also want it to parse all project
> files and build a list of all procedures and functions available
> in the project, sorted by include file. That way I can include a
> library like win32lib and instantly see what functions are
> available from that library.
All I meant was that since EUBNF uses simple productions such as=20
-- routine ::=3D "procedure" $pname pdef "end" "procedure"
-- | "function" $fname fdef "end" "function"
-- | "type" tdef "end" "type"
In theory, at least, it should be reasonably straightforward to detect
when such a rule has been successfully applied (which would be the
very last line of apply(), btw) and call a routine with the required
details to maintain the database, since at that point it has a full
symbol table, global list(s), include file stack etc to work with.
Mind you, it certainly wouldn't be the fastest way...
<snip>=20
> The problem for me with apps like MEditor is that they are to
> much centered around.... well, the editor
=46air point, I want an editor with a project sub-component, you want a
project manager with an editor sub-component. That shouldn't
necessarily prevent collaboration on individual components though.
Pete
6. Re: Yet another IDE
My $.02
I think for once we're shootnig for a truly *interactive* development
environment. Perhaps this project should be named TIDE - Truly Interactive
Development Environment (as not to be confused with the soap) it sounds
spiffy.
one feature i've always thought about was multiple programming language
support, such as syntax highlighting and auto completion, managing windows
and controls, etc. heck, if it were to support C++ and VB, you could market
it as a free and/or cheap replacement for M$ Visual Studio, written in
Euphoria!
~Greg
7. Re: Yet another IDE
I'd certainly like to help with the project. I'm really good with algorithms
and file i/o. I also have the Complete Edition Translator with Borland 5.5
compiler, so if you want a full working executable, I can spit one out.
Speaking of the Translator, perhaps since this will be such a large project,
maybe we should chop it up into libraries (dll's). That way, when it is
released, and something is updated, just a new dll needs to be downloaded,
rather than some huge 500k+ zip file. Also, I believe Euman is finishing his
installer soon, so we could package it in that.
I think its about time Euphoria had a professional-looking (acting,
thinking) product out on the market. Something to show that we're not just
playing around, but we're for serious. I've been a loyal Eu programmer for
about 4 years now, I think i started with v2.2, and I love everything
everyone's written, but along with this thread on "Modern Windows Screens"
and this "Yet another IDE" we could come up with a very nice looking app.
~Greg
I think I've put in about $0.60 now. :)
> > I think for once we're shootnig for a truly *interactive* development
> > environment. Perhaps this project should be named TIDE - Truly
> > Interactive
> > Development Environment (as not to be confused with the soap) it sounds
> > spiffy.
>
> 
>
> > one feature i've always thought about was multiple programming language
> > support, such as syntax highlighting and auto completion, managing
> > windows
> > and controls, etc. heck, if it were to support C++ and VB, you could
> > market
> > it as a free and/or cheap replacement for M$ Visual Studio, written in
> > Euphoria!
>
> It should indeed be usable with whatever language you like,
> not only with Euphoria.
>
> I'm still thinking about if I want to develop this as a (cheap)
> commercial tool or make it completely open source under something
> like a GPL license.
>
> Hans Peter Willems
