1. RE: Modern windows screens
Peter Willems wrote:
>
>
> I've crawled through all of the available files in the archive
> but I can't find anything that let me have the controls to compose
> a "modern" windows interface: flat buttons and those great looking
> white pulldown menus with shadow behind it and all kinds of graphic
> stuff.
>
> Is there any library available that makes those things possible in
> Euphoria ?
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
Hi there Peter,
If you can show me some pictures of what the menues and stuff
looks like i can probably add a new class in the WinClass Library
for each new type of control. Shouldnt be too hard really.
This is exactly what i expected to do at some point anyway,
and so new ideas for new types of controls is really great
to hear.
Flat buttons? You think that would be a good control?
Probably take the Raised Button Class and create a new
flat class out of that in about 10 minutes or less.
Change the resulting file name to 'FlatButton.ew'.
What do you think is so nice about a flat button though?
Any other ideas also welcome.
Take care for now,
Al
2. RE: Modern windows screens
Al Getz wrote:
> If you can show me some pictures of what the menues and stuff
> looks like i can probably add a new class in the WinClass Library
> for each new type of control. Shouldnt be too hard really.
> This is exactly what i expected to do at some point anyway,
> and so new ideas for new types of controls is really great
> to hear.
Here is a screenshot to look at:
http://www.integratedmoves.com/pictures/main.jpg
As for the menus, the ones I'm thinking of are how they look
on Win-XP, but I've seen several programs that has that feature
while running under 98.
> Flat buttons? You think that would be a good control?
It's all about taste 
But.... many programs these days have very slick user interfaces
and if you are developing commercial grade software you must keep
up. So, if I'm to switch to Eu for my companies projects, this is
important (albeit not -very- important).
Maybe I should look into full graphic replacements for the controls
anyway. WinDev for example has a feature where you can use a BMP
containing several states of a button (selected, clicked, mouse-
over) on a graphic button, creating instant skinning.
> Probably take the Raised Button Class and create a new
> flat class out of that in about 10 minutes or less.
> Change the resulting file name to 'FlatButton.ew'.
I'm not at home in OO windows programming to do that myself
(at least not right away). I was hoping someone already did it.
> Any other ideas also welcome.
Well, I mentioned it already: skinnable controls
Hans Peter Willems
3. RE: Modern windows screens
Elliott Sales de Andrade wrote:
> This only works on Windows XP (at least, I think those are the buttons
> and
> menus of which you speak)
Partly you are correct, but several development environments
have loads of graphics options for controls, even while running
on win98. WinDev for example (the environment I use in my daily
work) has separate options to set a buttons color, bevel style
(normal, flat, sunken), border (again all of the options).
Same goes for almost every other control type.
And that is while running on win98.
Hans Peter Willems
4. RE: Modern windows screens
Derek Parnell wrote:
> I was just playing about last week with a flat-button implmentation for
> win32lib. Its written totally in Eu/win32lib code. I host the buttons on
> an 'elastic' toolbar such that when the window resizes, so do the
> buttons. Also, you can have them change color when the mouse moves over
> them - gives them a 'glowing' effect. Latchable buttons are supported
> too - one click to press them down and another to release them again.
Can I use these buttons OUTSIDE a buttonbar as well ???
> But I refused to have buttons that look like labels until the mouse gets
> to them - its a visual paradigm mistake, IMHO.
That is why I use flat buttons with another color then the screen
that they are on. Looks quite nice tmo.
> As for white menus, I now know how I can do them too. Might experiment
> next week but you won't see these until 0.59.3 at the earliest.
I have no problem waiting for that (any estimate on the release
date ?). As long as I know it's coming I'm happy
I'm already using win32lib as my main library.
> I don't have XP so I'm not aware of what "modern" windows controls look
> like.
Look around the web for some screenshots of commercial apps.
Most are shown in their winXP look.
Hans Peter Willems
5. RE: Modern windows screens
Peter Willems wrote:
>
>
> Derek Parnell wrote:
>
> > I was just playing about last week with a flat-button implmentation for
> > win32lib. Its written totally in Eu/win32lib code. I host the buttons on
> >
> > an 'elastic' toolbar such that when the window resizes, so do the
> > buttons. Also, you can have them change color when the mouse moves over
> > them - gives them a 'glowing' effect. Latchable buttons are supported
> > too - one click to press them down and another to release them again.
>
> Can I use these buttons OUTSIDE a buttonbar as well ???
>
> > But I refused to have buttons that look like labels until the mouse gets
> >
> > to them - its a visual paradigm mistake, IMHO.
>
> That is why I use flat buttons with another color then the screen
> that they are on. Looks quite nice tmo.
>
> > As for white menus, I now know how I can do them too. Might experiment
> > next week but you won't see these until 0.59.3 at the earliest.
>
> I have no problem waiting for that (any estimate on the release
> date ?). As long as I know it's coming I'm happy
> I'm already using win32lib as my main library.
>
> > I don't have XP so I'm not aware of what "modern" windows controls look
> > like.
>
> Look around the web for some screenshots of commercial apps.
> Most are shown in their winXP look.
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
Hi there again Peter,
Since Derek says he's putting it in the WinLib project, i wont
worry about putting this stuff into the WinClass Library until
i get some other 'standard' controls put into it.
I'd like to get the basic controls groups into it first.
I dont have access to XP 24/7 either, so i cant see what the
menues look like, although i know that's not the only menu
type available to XP. The 'classic' style looks just like
win98 right?
Take care for now,
Al
6. RE: Modern windows screens
Hey Al,
Al Getz wrote:
> Since Derek says he's putting it in the WinLib project, i wont
> worry about putting this stuff into the WinClass Library until
> i get some other 'standard' controls put into it.
> I'd like to get the basic controls groups into it first.
I can understand that
> I dont have access to XP 24/7 either, so i cant see what the
> menues look like, although i know that's not the only menu
> type available to XP. The 'classic' style looks just like
> win98 right?
Yep, you can set XP to look like 98. Fyi, we are running win98
on all the office machines. I have winXP running only on a private
machine at home.
I'm already thinking about how to write a function that will give
me a full skinnable button. I think it's fairly easy to do in
Euphoria with the help of some windows library that can handle
graphics as a control.
Hans Peter Willems
7. RE: Modern windows screens
Peter Willems wrote:
>
>
> Hey Al,
>
> Al Getz wrote:
>
> > Since Derek says he's putting it in the WinLib project, i wont
> > worry about putting this stuff into the WinClass Library until
> > i get some other 'standard' controls put into it.
> > I'd like to get the basic controls groups into it first.
>
> I can understand that
>
> > I dont have access to XP 24/7 either, so i cant see what the
> > menues look like, although i know that's not the only menu
> > type available to XP. The 'classic' style looks just like
> > win98 right?
>
> Yep, you can set XP to look like 98. Fyi, we are running win98
> on all the office machines. I have winXP running only on a private
> machine at home.
>
> I'm already thinking about how to write a function that will give
> me a full skinnable button. I think it's fairly easy to do in
> Euphoria with the help of some windows library that can handle
> graphics as a control.
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
Yes, a button is about the simplest control you can implement,
that's why i chose it for a custom class demo in the
WinClass Library 
That way it would be easiest to understand
and use to create a 'derived' class such as a flat button.
It's also quite easy to do with raw windows api calls and responding
to only a small handfull of WM_ type messages.
Skins are just a bitmap, even if stored RLE right?
Take care for now,
Al
8. RE: Modern windows screens
David Cuny wrote:
>
>
> You can find a toolkit that supports the 'modern' look and feel here:
>
> http://www.beyondata.com/Download.htm
>
> It works fine under Win95, since it uses emulates many of the controls.
> It's
> quite nice.
>
> It's free software, so I don't think there would be any issue in
> including it
> with Win32Lib. Unfortunately, you'd have to build the library as a DLL
> or
> have it compiled into Euphoria to have it work - the latter option being
>
> unlikely.
>
> -- David Cuny
>
Ah ha! So that's what they are calling the 'modern look'
I took a look at the screenshot.
Well, i call it the "kid's desktop look" hee hee.
I just dont like that big red X close button.
I do like the offwhite color scheme though...
Kinda like the squarish tabs on the tab controls too. Easier to draw.
Still like the 'classic' style better though.
Any other opinions?
Take care for now,
Al
9. RE: Modern windows screens
- Posted by gertie at visionsix.com
Jul 21, 2003
On 21 Jul 2003, at 15:58, Al Getz wrote:
>
>
> David Cuny wrote:
> >
> >
> > You can find a toolkit that supports the 'modern' look and feel here:
> >
> > http://www.beyondata.com/Download.htm
> >
> > It works fine under Win95, since it uses emulates many of the controls.
> > It's
> > quite nice.
> >
> > It's free software, so I don't think there would be any issue in
> > including it
> > with Win32Lib. Unfortunately, you'd have to build the library as a DLL
> > or
> > have it compiled into Euphoria to have it work - the latter option being
> >
> > unlikely.
> >
> > -- David Cuny
> >
>
> Ah ha! So that's what they are calling the 'modern look'
> I took a look at the screenshot.
>
> Well, i call it the "kid's desktop look" hee hee.
EEWWWW, you are right! It looks like something you put 4 'C' cells into and
it alledgedly teaches a child to spell, or guess what a pic of a cow is, or
something.
Kat
10. RE: Modern windows screens
Al Getz wrote:
> Ah ha! So that's what they are calling the 'modern look'
> I took a look at the screenshot.
>
> Well, i call it the "kid's desktop look" hee hee.
>
> I just dont like that big red X close button.
>
> I do like the offwhite color scheme though...
> Kinda like the squarish tabs on the tab controls too. Easier to draw.
Yep, that's what I like as well.
> Still like the 'classic' style better though.
>
> Any other opinions?
I like it if combined with the classic look
Hans Peter Willems
11. RE: Modern windows screens
gertie at visionsix.com wrote:
>
>
> On 21 Jul 2003, at 15:58, Al Getz wrote:
>
> >
> > David Cuny wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > You can find a toolkit that supports the 'modern' look and feel here:
> > >
> > > http://www.beyondata.com/Download.htm
> > >
> > > It works fine under Win95, since it uses emulates many of the controls.
> > > It's
> > > quite nice.
> > >
> > > It's free software, so I don't think there would be any issue in
> > > including it
> > > with Win32Lib. Unfortunately, you'd have to build the library as a DLL
> > > or
> > > have it compiled into Euphoria to have it work - the latter option being
> > >
> > >
> > > unlikely.
> > >
> > > -- David Cuny
> > >
> >
> > Ah ha! So that's what they are calling the 'modern look'
> > I took a look at the screenshot.
> >
> > Well, i call it the "kid's desktop look" hee hee.
>
> EEWWWW, you are right! It looks like something you put 4 'C' cells into
> and
> it alledgedly teaches a child to spell, or guess what a pic of a cow is,
> or
> something.
>
> Kat
>
Hee hee Kat, ROFLMAO
Take care,
Al
12. RE: Modern windows screens
Peter Willems wrote:
>
>
> Al Getz wrote:
>
> > Ah ha! So that's what they are calling the 'modern look'
> > I took a look at the screenshot.
> >
> > Well, i call it the "kid's desktop look" hee hee.
> >
> > I just dont like that big red X close button.
> >
> > I do like the offwhite color scheme though...
> > Kinda like the squarish tabs on the tab controls too. Easier to draw.
>
> Yep, that's what I like as well.
>
> > Still like the 'classic' style better though.
> >
> > Any other opinions?
>
> I like it if combined with the classic look
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
Maybe i'll try it with the Win98 'Appearance' colors and see what
it looks like.
Take care,
Al
13. RE: Modern windows screens
David Cuny wrote:
> Don't confuse the look and feel of the windows (WinXP) with the
> controls. The
> WinXP look is widely derided, but it's trivial to return back to the
> Win2K
> look, which is much better.
>
> But the actual *controls* are quite nice. I had written emulations of a
> number
> of them, and some are quite nice.
I agree completely. The winXP look as in how the windows look
is not to my taste either. It all looks a bit bulky.
But there are many controls that look quite nice.
Reviewing my own request for modern looking controls, I realize
that the one thing I'm actually really missing is the "classic"
windows flat button as used on most of todays buttonbars, but I
want it as a separate button (not depending on a reBar or such)
that I can use anywhere in a screen. Combined with the ability
to give that button any color I like it will give me back most
of the screen layouts I'm used to in my current IDE, for use in
Euphoria.
Hans Peter Willems
14. RE: Modern windows screens
David Cuny wrote:
>
>
> Al Getz wrote:
>
> > Ah ha! So that's what they are calling the 'modern look'
>
> Don't confuse the look and feel of the windows (WinXP) with the
> controls. The
> WinXP look is widely derided, but it's trivial to return back to the
> Win2K
> look, which is much better.
>
> But the actual *controls* are quite nice. I had written emulations of a
> number
> of them, and some are quite nice.
>
> -- David Cuny
>
Hello again,
Oh ok, maybe i'll take a look around the web for some more
screen shots.
One of these days i might have to break down and get XP i guess.
I was trying to wait out MS this time until the 'next' Windows
version comes out, but i really like XP's ability to catch
improper memory access and stuff like that. With my beta and
other Win98 versions many mem allocation or access errors go
unnoticed, only to crash completely in 2000 or XP.
I'd like to see more of these controls just to get an idea
what they look like.
So far, im not sure i like the 'gigantic' shadow effect either,
because it seems to obscure more of the window beneath, which i
often like to see also.
Take care for now,
Al
15. RE: Modern windows screens
Peter Willems wrote:
>
>
> David Cuny wrote:
>
> > Don't confuse the look and feel of the windows (WinXP) with the
> > controls. The
> > WinXP look is widely derided, but it's trivial to return back to the
> > Win2K
> > look, which is much better.
> >
> > But the actual *controls* are quite nice. I had written emulations of a
> > number
> > of them, and some are quite nice.
>
> I agree completely. The winXP look as in how the windows look
> is not to my taste either. It all looks a bit bulky.
> But there are many controls that look quite nice.
>
> Reviewing my own request for modern looking controls, I realize
> that the one thing I'm actually really missing is the "classic"
> windows flat button as used on most of todays buttonbars, but I
> want it as a separate button (not depending on a reBar or such)
> that I can use anywhere in a screen. Combined with the ability
> to give that button any color I like it will give me back most
> of the screen layouts I'm used to in my current IDE, for use in
> Euphoria.
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
Hello again,
Peter, if you know of any more screen shots please let me know,
i'd like to check them out.
Take care for now,
Al
16. RE: Modern windows screens
Al Getz wrote:
> Peter, if you know of any more screen shots please let me know,
> i'd like to check them out.
Well here you go
www.getsoft.com/popups/EDUI.html
I especially like the docked treeview browsers at the left.
I also like a lot of stuff in Java-based GUIs:
Take a look at the screenshots at www.visual-paradigm.com
Finally, here's some screenshots (one combined picture) of a
project I'm working on (this is NOT winXP related, it's my own
design of an interface) :
www.integratedmoves.com/pictures/borgpreview.jpg
Hans Peter Willems
17. RE: Modern windows screens
Dan Moyer wrote:
>
>
> Al,
> My opinion:
> Also looked at the screenshot, & I *like* the big red "X", as I can't
> count
> the times I've accidentally closed a window when I just meant to max or
> min
> it; in fact, I *hate* the change from Win3 to Win9x that moved the close
> button from the *left* side of the window by itself, over to the right
> side
> next to max/min.
>
> Dan Moyer
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Al Getz" <Xaxo at aol.com>
> To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 8:58 AM
> Subject: RE: Modern windows screens
>
>
> > David Cuny wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > You can find a toolkit that supports the 'modern' look and feel here:
> > >
> > > http://www.beyondata.com/Download.htm
> > >
> > > It works fine under Win95, since it uses emulates many of the controls.
> > > It's
> > > quite nice.
> > >
> > > It's free software, so I don't think there would be any issue in
> > > including it
> > > with Win32Lib. Unfortunately, you'd have to build the library as a DLL
> > > or
> > > have it compiled into Euphoria to have it work - the latter option being
> > >
> > > unlikely.
> > >
> > > -- David Cuny
> > >
> >
> > Ah ha! So that's what they are calling the 'modern look'
> > I took a look at the screenshot.
> >
> > Well, i call it the "kid's desktop look" hee hee.
> >
> > I just dont like that big red X close button.
> >
> > I do like the offwhite color scheme though...
> > Kinda like the squarish tabs on the tab controls too. Easier to draw.
> >
> > Still like the 'classic' style better though.
> >
> > Any other opinions?
> >
> > Take care for now,
> > Al
> >
> > --^----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This email was sent to: DANIELMOYER at prodigy.net
> >
> >
> > TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
> >
>
Ok
I realize it's not the color i dont like, it's the design of it.
The x, along with the min and max buttons, look like kid's
blocks. I think Kat was saying something like this too...
Just before those three buttons we might see A, B and C.
Also, color has scope just like program variables. If you have
a red background x somewhere on the window and it's to have
very special significance, then you shouldnt have it anywhere
else.
If you have problems closing out windows (or avoiding that)
you can make the closeout button bigger by changing system settings
cant you?
Take care,
Al
18. RE: Modern windows screens
Peter Willems wrote:
>
>
> Al Getz wrote:
>
> > Peter, if you know of any more screen shots please let me know,
> > i'd like to check them out.
>
> Well here you go
>
> www.getsoft.com/popups/EDUI.html
> I especially like the docked treeview browsers at the left.
>
> I also like a lot of stuff in Java-based GUIs:
> Take a look at the screenshots at www.visual-paradigm.com
>
> Finally, here's some screenshots (one combined picture) of a
> project I'm working on (this is NOT winXP related, it's my own
> design of an interface) :
> www.integratedmoves.com/pictures/borgpreview.jpg
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
Hello again Peter,
I took a look at your screen shots on that site and others on
that site and yours too, and i like them all. Very neat looking.
The only thing i dont like is the red x, min and max buttons
because they look too simple.
If you or anyone else likes them then there is no reason to
not use them right?
If you or anyone else doesnt like them then there is enough
reason not to use them right?
Take care,
Al
19. RE: Modern windows screens
Dan Moyer wrote:
>
>
> Kat,
>
> Not a bad suggestion, *if* the menu had max/min in it, which it doesn't.
> But your suggestion did make me notice that if you right click on title
> bar
> of any window that can be min/max'ed, a popup appears which does have
> min/max and close, in WORDS, which might actually make it easier to make
> sure to avoid the close. thanks.
>
> Dan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <gertie at visionsix.com>
> To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:24 AM
> Subject: Re: Modern windows screens
>
>
> > On 23 Jul 2003, at 20:56, Dan Moyer wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > > If you have problems closing out windows (or avoiding that)
> > > > you can make the closeout button bigger by changing system settings
> > > > cant you?
> > >
> > > Have done that, but in haste still occasionally hit the wrong one; made
> more
> > > sense to me to separate the functions of bigger/smaller and quit. Dan
> Moyer
> >
> > Don't use the buttons at all? Use the menu?
> >
> > Kat
> >
> > --^----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This email was sent to: DANIELMOYER at prodigy.net
> >
> >
> > TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
> >
>
Dan, that IS the menu she was talking about.
It's called the 'system menu'.
You never noticed that before?
Take care,
Al
20. RE: Modern windows screens
Oh yes, you can also double click the icon at the top of
the window on the left side to close out...
Take care,
Al
21. RE: Modern windows screens
Dan Moyer wrote:
>
>
> Al,
>
> <snip>
>
> From: "Al Getz" <Xaxo at aol.com>
> >
> > Dan, that IS the menu she was talking about.
> > It's called the 'system menu'.
> > You never noticed that before?
> >
>
> Oh, well I've *noticed* it, but when she said "menu" (without the
> "system"),
> I just naturally thought "menu", as on the "menu" bar. My oops :)
>
> > Take care,
> > Al
> >
> > --^----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This email was sent to: DANIELMOYER at prodigy.net
> >
> >
> > TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
> >
>
OH yes, i see what you mean there...
I could have easily made that assumption myself.
In fact, i probably did once
Take care for now,
Al
22. RE: Modern windows screens
Al Getz wrote:
> Peter, if you know of any more screen shots please let me know,
> i'd like to check them out.
Al, I just came across this:
http://users.hol.gr/~dck/g4c/html/Description.htm
Maybe there are some usefull ideas there
Hans Peter Willems
23. RE: Modern windows screens
Peter Willems wrote:
>
>
> Al Getz wrote:
>
> > Peter, if you know of any more screen shots please let me know,
> > i'd like to check them out.
>
> Al, I just came across this:
>
> http://users.hol.gr/~dck/g4c/html/Description.htm
>
> Maybe there are some usefull ideas there
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
Hello again Peter,
I took a look at some of the screen shots and i think they
look pretty nice. I might have to try some of these in
my own library at some point.
The overall look is very clean and neat looking or something...
Thanks much,
Al
24. RE: Modern windows screens
Hey Al,
> I took a look at some of the screen shots and i think they
> look pretty nice. I might have to try some of these in
> my own library at some point.
>
> The overall look is very clean and neat looking or something...
I thought you might like it, and because it's freeware you
can download it and investigate up close
Hans Peter Willems
25. RE: Modern windows screens
Peter Willems wrote:
> Al Getz wrote:
>
> > Peter, if you know of any more screen shots please let me know,
> > i'd like to check them out.
>
> Al, I just came across this:
>
> http://users.hol.gr/~dck/g4c/html/Description.htm
>
> Maybe there are some usefull ideas there
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
Hi Peter and Al
I downloaded the package. It does nice things and very easy to use.
The maker said...If the language you use can make command line programs
that take arguments, then you can make a Gui4Cli gui to get the
arguments and then form a command line and "RUN" it.
As any one tried to use it with Eu. If yes, what was the result?
Regards
Serge Lavigne
26. RE: Modern windows screens
jondolar wrote:
> Hi Peter and Al
> I downloaded the package. It does nice things and very easy to use.
> The maker said...If the language you use can make command line programs
> that take arguments, then you can make a Gui4Cli gui to get the
> arguments and then form a command line and "RUN" it.
>
> As any one tried to use it with Eu. If yes, what was the result?
I think it's no problem to use it together with Euphoria.
But for myself I'm more looking at an integrated solution
because I ultimately like to translate my programs to C and
compile them to lean stand alone executables.
Hans Peter Willems
27. RE: Modern windows screens
Peter Willems wrote:
>
>
> jondolar wrote:
>
> > Hi Peter and Al
> > I downloaded the package. It does nice things and very easy to use.
> > The maker said...If the language you use can make command line programs
> > that take arguments, then you can make a Gui4Cli gui to get the
> > arguments and then form a command line and "RUN" it.
> >
> > As any one tried to use it with Eu. If yes, what was the result?
>
> I think it's no problem to use it together with Euphoria.
> But for myself I'm more looking at an integrated solution
> because I ultimately like to translate my programs to C and
> compile them to lean stand alone executables.
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
I kinda like to do everything in Eu too, if im already using
that language anyway...
Take care for now,
Al
28. RE: Modern windows screens
jondolar wrote:
>
>
> Peter Willems wrote:
> > Al Getz wrote:
> >
> > > Peter, if you know of any more screen shots please let me know,
> > > i'd like to check them out.
> >
> > Al, I just came across this:
> >
> > http://users.hol.gr/~dck/g4c/html/Description.htm
> >
> > Maybe there are some usefull ideas there
> >
> > Hans Peter Willems
> >
> Hi Peter and Al
> I downloaded the package. It does nice things and very easy to use.
> The maker said...If the language you use can make command line programs
> that take arguments, then you can make a Gui4Cli gui to get the
> arguments and then form a command line and "RUN" it.
>
> As any one tried to use it with Eu. If yes, what was the result?
>
> Regards
>
> Serge Lavigne
>
It looks interesting, but im just not sure if i want to take the
time right now to investigate. Has it been hard to get running,
or fast and easy?
Take care for now,
Al
