1. Why we need a good IDE ! (also about block comments)
This is going to be a long post.....
The discussion about block comments made it clear to me how
much a good IDE is needed. It seems that many people here
are programming for fun but are not really involved in contract
programming or commercial product development.
When you are programming just for the fun of it, or to create
that little tool for yourself that you can't find anywhere, it's
sufficient to have some kind of editor and a language based on
some available interpreter or compiler. You code some stuff,
run it to see if it doesn't crash and that's about it.
In a large software project we talk about deliverables; the stuff
that is going to be delivered from the project. And it's not only
software. It includes system documentation, QA documentation,
test case results, and much more.
It is also important in large projects to have standardized
procedures to build the deliverables. Most of this stuff is
scripted with one or another system to ensure that the process
is performed as specified over and over again.
This is why I have been talking about a new IDE. It's not only
the choice of language but also the availability/possibility
to integrate that particular language into a controlled workflow.
The term "Software Engineering" is all about this.
Having worked for years with a very complete IDE (and still do),
I still have wishes for certain functionality. This is why I am
going to develop a new universal IDE. I want to be free from the
choice of language (although I already adopted Euphoria to build
this project) and I want to have the ability to use one intergrated
system with several languages. The WinDev IDE that we are currently
using is very good and has features galore, but it is also closed
and has no options to integrate additional tools.
The recent discussion on block comments and stuff missing in
Euphoria has helped me with determining part of my requirement
specification for this new IDE. Here is the first preliminary
list of functionality that it should have for me:
---[ Must have ]---
o The IDE should be able to parse the base project file for
include statements and add any called include file to the
project tree automatically. It should do this recursively
so that include-dependancies are clearly visible.
o The IDE should be able to parse all included files in the
project for procedure and function statements, and build a
reference list of available functions and procedures across
the project. It should also build cross reference tables
that show where a function is declared and where it is used
across the project.
o The IDE should have support for extended inline documentation
by means of specific statements embedded in comment tags that
can be parsed to build full project documentation. This goes
much further then block comments and actually makes that the
current comment system in Euphoria is sufficient.
o The IDE needs to be scriptable itself so you can add external
tools that integrate into the IDE. This will be needed to be
able to execute build-procedures from the IDE for example.
Euphoria example: automatically invoke the translator to
translate Eu code to C and automatically have the C code
compiled to executable.
It should also be possible to run scriptable tools like
installer builders from the IDE with automatic maintenance
of the build scripts (i.e. the IDE must put the specific
information into the tool scripts).
o The IDE needs to be able to track tasks that are linked to
bookmarks in the project files. This is a must for large
projects that are handled by small project teams.
---[ Nice to have ]---
o A repository for graphics that is available across projects.
Handy to build a default set of icons that you use in all your
projects.
o A GUI layout developer that is universal and can generate
code for any library or language by means of XML templates.
o Fully integrated version management (with DIFF functionality)
for all project files.
Of course there should be an editor involved in all this but I'm
still thinking about if it should be included or to have the option
to link in an editor of choice. Probably both.
There's more to talk about, but for now I'll leave it with this.
Hans Peter Willems
2. Re: Why we need a good IDE ! (also about block comments)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Willems"
>
>
> This is going to be a long post.....
>
> The discussion about block comments made it clear to me how
> much a good IDE is needed.
<snip>
>
> The recent discussion on block comments and stuff missing in
> Euphoria has helped me with determining part of my requirement
> specification for this new IDE. Here is the first preliminary
> list of functionality that it should have for me:
>
> ---[ Must have ]---
>
<snip>
>
> o The IDE should have support for extended inline documentation
> by means of specific statements embedded in comment tags that
> can be parsed to build full project documentation. This goes
> much further then block comments and actually makes that the
> current comment system in Euphoria is sufficient.
Peter,
Just out of curiosity, have you looked at the "makeDoc.exw" that comes with
Win32Lib, which peruses comment tags in Win32Lib to create the Win32Lib HTM
documentation? I ask because Ive been working on an "editor" to allow easy
insertion of at least some of those comment tags into any library of
routines in order to make them self-documenting. If you have looked at the
Win32Lib system of comment tagging, & find it lacking, what would you
suggest to improve it?
Dan Moyer
<snip>
>
> There's more to talk about, but for now I'll leave it with this.
<snip>
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>
3. Re: Why we need a good IDE ! (also about block comments)
Peter,
Not sure, but I think you thought I made MakeDoc, which I didn't.
Just to be clear: what I'm working on is an "editor" to add comment tags to
a library so "MakeDoc.exw" can create the HTM documentation for that library
from those specially tagged comments; the utility "MakeDoc.exw" is an
*existing* program created by David Cuny & included with Win32Lib, although
Derek may have made improvements to it (& I did make an amended version to
break up the output file from one to many in order to improve speed of
jumping to links on slower machines).
Dan Moyer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Willems" <peter at integratedmoves.com>
To: "EUforum" <EUforum at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:32 PM
Subject: RE: Why we need a good IDE ! (also about block comments)
>
>
> Dan Moyer wrote:
>
> > Just out of curiosity, have you looked at the "makeDoc.exw" that comes
> > with
> > Win32Lib, which peruses comment tags in Win32Lib to create the Win32Lib
> > HTM
> > documentation? I ask because Ive been working on an "editor" to allow
> > easy
> > insertion of at least some of those comment tags into any library of
> > routines in order to make them self-documenting. If you have looked at
> > the
> > Win32Lib system of comment tagging, & find it lacking, what would you
> > suggest to improve it?
>
> Hey Dan,
>
> I was not aware of that, but I did suspect some tool was used
> to build the win32lib documentation.
>
> I'm currently e-mailing with Travis Beaty about such a tool
> as he is planning something and thought it would be possible
> to include in my IDE. I myself think that the concept can be
> taken much further, like generating HTMLhelp files from included
> comments.
>
> I'll take a look at your tool and I'm sure Travis will also 
>
> Hans Peter Willems
>
>
>
> TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
>
